about john doe in episode 4
i really hope telltale were serious about him either being evil or "something new" (bruces friend maybe even his next jason todd) depending on your choices ,i hope this isnt like harvey no matter how many times you side with him he turns evil no mater that better not FUCKING HAPPEN!!!!!! i mean by the end he could be good cause yellow (hes joker) and hes got to have a blue outcome which means you have a positive relationship right.
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I think he'll always be the Joker.
What they could mean is that he would be either completely off the deep end or like how Harley was in the animated series, a villain, but more conflicted. Are we looking at a possible role reversal? Maaaaybeee.
The thing i liked with Harvey is that you can stop him from becoming Two face if you do it correctly (save him in episode 2 and going after Penguin in episode 4) in episode 5 you can see the difference.For the Joker i suppose you can't stop him from Becoming the Joker but maybe you can be a good friend to him ? We'll see
If the same thing happens with John no matter what then Telltale hasn't learned their lesson and I will be sad.
If Harvey became Two-Face no matter what, why wouldn’t the same thing happen to John? The Joker is the most iconic Batman villain ever and If they will make another season with him being the main villain, he needs to become bad no matter what.
I think this is going to be a Harvey type situation where no matter what you did not didn't do John Doe will become our enemy. We might influence what kind to a degree.
That's about it.
Prove me wrong Telltale.
They never said that he could turn into a good guy.
At the begining of 2 season I wasn't sure what I want - him becoming Joker, or him evolving into something else. I was more interested in Joker, honestly.
But now I reeeeeeeally want him to stay our "friend". Where is so much versions of Joker the Enemy, I want something fresh. TT is very unique in that way about Joker. Besides, I did not believe TT will succeed with that, but they managed to make me feel close to him. I didn't feel this way with Harvey, despite game calling him and Bruce "friends". But I feel like John is one of a few characters who genuinely care about Bruce, like Alfred, Tiffany, Lucius, Gordon and Selina,
I still want to make him my Robin, but I don't believe it's technically possible. XD
Still, TT were so loud about "make your own Joker lego constructor" and "you can end up with something new". I remember Ingruber saying he believed John can be reformed.
So I'm not completly sceptical about possibility of John choosing "light side" of the force. Can't say my Bruce were mean or unsupportive to him.
i know they say he doesnt turn good but his voice actor hinted him possibly staying as an ally
Really ? When did he say such thing ?
I tend to look at what Telltale did in the past, and though progress is possible I have a hard time conceiving a third season featuring a John who's your ally and another who's your enemy. It's too much of a difference in terms of dialogues and scenes, and, I don't think its doable . Its too much work, it will need extra time, extra money and the story, dialogues and choices while interacting with John, need to make sense... I think that last part is the real problem here. Its way too many variables, especially when we are dealing with a character who's supposed to be very influenced by everything you do...It makes it an even harder task than it would have been to have a Catwoman who hates you and another who appreciates you.
If this second season ends with a John who remained adorable and a John who turned into Joker then I doubt we'll see him again, which in both cases, wouldn't fit the character, given I imagine that either way, John/Joker, will remain too interested in Bruce/Batman to simply ''disappear'' on him, except, of course, if he goes to Arkham.
Now, I would find it unfortunate to lose such a character. For the sake of seeing him again I am okay with ending up with ''different kinds of Joker'' as Telltale said they were aiming to do, and the change to require dialogues differences and some of John's decisions slightly changed rather than two completely different relationships/feelings between Bruce and John..., I am fine sacrificing the idea of a John that could be saved or lost, because it would be way to difficult to work with in the long run.
Believe me, I want John's change as the Joker to be determinant too... It's just that I don't think it would work if he is in the next season, and i want another season with more of him in it.
Agreed
It's sad that people's expectations for the game are directly correlated with their lack of faith in Telltale being able to make choices matter.
When it comes to these situations telltale doesn't make a two way road for the villain....Harvey is the perfect example.
It is somewhat unlikely for telltale to take such a big risk just to make a bunch of fans happy. What would be great in Your opinion can be disapointing for the rest, because far more players want John to actually become the Joker - their own version of the character, which they have tailored throught the game
Eh, I'd like to keep John as a friend rather than an enemy. Not likely to happen though.
I'm pretty sure they will pull something like what they did with Clementine in New Frontier, something like "if you were good to him he won't kill X character, if you didn't care about him he will kill someone you care about"
Since when did Clementine kill anyone depending on player choice?
The choices you makes as Clementine in the flashbacks have impact on where Clementine goes in episode 5.
Yeah, same, guess we're a minority? The trailer doesn't give much hope.. guess I'll be disappointed then, but I still hold on to what TT said about the player's choices affecting what John will become. I've been hoping he'd become somewhat an antihero, rather than a complete villain.. that he would have a complex relationship with my Bruce/Batman going on to season 3. Can't wait for ep 4, they said the clown prince of crime may finally earn his crown, I'm clinging on to the "may" lol.. maybe it doesn't mean exactly the same for everyone.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, I'd hate it if he'd turn out just like Harvey did.
I wouldn't say "minority", judging from what I've seen it's 50-50.
From majority polls outside the forum I even seen about 60+% prefering to befriend John.
I believe it's not the matter of what ppl want, but what they're ready to believe. It's hard to believe John could be made villain OR antihero, considering he's going to appear in season 3 most likely. Such big differences are hard to handle.
Can't say I expect a marvel, but I still have some hope mostly because of what Ingruber said. He was very optimistic about John Doe staying "good".
Oh that sounds good if that's true, thanks for the info. If it's really about 50-50 then that would be disappointing for a lot of people.. this is only feeding my hopes for John right now. And yes, I remember Ingruber's comments and those are also pretty much what my hopes are based on.
I didn't say she killed anyone, I said John could kill anyone depending on the choices. I said it could be like Clementine because if you're good to her she does X while if you never take care of her she does X
Actually, Clementine's decision on who to help is based entirely on her decisions in the flashbacks. Her decision has no bearing on how the player treated her as Javi.
Oh, I didn't know, still, I hope teltalle bases John decision in wether we always sided with, wether we were neutral to him, or never payed him any attention.