I really don't want loads of sidekicks...
This is basically my response to people speculating about Tiffany being Bat Girl...
I have to say if there is an eventual season 3 I really hope all these side kicks are not forced upon us. Alfred & Lucius/Tiffany are fine cause they are in the background out of the way being your tech support. However I find I honestly prefer a Batman who works alone.. As soon as I saw Tiffany's suit my instant thought was:
I don't mind Tiffany being tech support it makes sense but I really don't want a season 3 with her fighting alongside Batman in that purple suit. I like to call this problem "The Arrow Problem" Arrow was a good show but as soon as he got all them annoying side kicks the show became annoying to watch due to the extra drama it entailed & teen angst:
Cough Felicity Cough
Now some side kicks are cool as soon as they evolve into their own characters out of the side kick role like Nightwing & Red Hood (Damian Wayne sucks though). However I really hope we are not forced into a situation where we have to take on these people. I have no idea if you could reject Tiffany last episode but honestly Alfred was getting so aggravated about it that I gave in and told her in my other play through.
Comments
AGREED.
I would just like the sidekick thing to be optional. I wouldn't mind choosing to have a sidekick, as long as I can choose not to have one as well.
Tiffany seems like she got potential, but our alliance was really forced upon us. It was a "either tell me you are batman or I will be your enemy forever" sort of situation. Lowkey makes me like her even less.
If Tiffany does become Batgirl I hope she only shows up pretty minimal. Id rather that she filled in the role Lucius had instead. That being said, Id rather Tiffany be that sidekick, considering there was rumors that the boy in S1Ep4 was going to become Robin which I would have hated because that would mean we'd have to be training a Robin, but worst is that the kid was like 10 and if there is ever going to be a Robin in this series I dont want it to be some 10 year old kid.
But I do agree, I prefer Batman working alone for the most part, which is why one of my peeves about Season 2 is that we are forced to do what the agency wants instead of make our own choices
Tru, tru. I wouldn't mind her filling Lucius' role. That's why I chose to tell her I'm batman, I need tech support lol.
Vickie Vales foster brother? Always thought that situation was a bit odd like there was more to the story considering, if I remember it correctly there was a picture of him and Vickie together? But yeah definitely want her to be the tech/oracle instead of Bat girl.
Yeah Vicki's Foster brother. A lot of people started speculating he would become Robin because the scene was kinda strange and felt Robin-teasing.
i think that scene was sort of a nod to bruce when he was a kid. a tragedy struck and sent him on the path of fighting crime.
that kid is like 10 right? if he was to become someone significant in batman season 3 which i think they'll do he'll have to age a bit.
The only sidekick I want to see is the Batmobil talking to me!!! I love that f** car!!!
think it may depend how many seasons the game runs for. robin, batgirl, nightwing could all be introduced in their separate seasons. and there may be scenes where they follow you sometimes. or you pick choice A and they go to choice B. so they would still be background to everything. and they may make a mess at 1 more than the other or get in trouble.
still quite a fan of arrow. think DC's CW shows have had a running theme of teamwork and family. think as he became the mayor too it was a way to have action scenes whilst important things with him happen elsewhere.
I hope that Tiffany is primarily tech support but uses her tactical suit in specific situations where Batman will need her help. I actually would prefer my Batman not fighting alone, as if it weren't for allies such as Catwoman, Gordon and John, he would've died countless times.
I complely agree! I prefer all the iterations of Batman where he fights on his own or only aided from time to time by ADULT, competent allies that are his equal. In this case, Catwoman could fit the bill from time to time (although she will always be more of an antihero) or someone like Avesta, though more from a tactical point of view than from a "swinging on the rooftop" point of view. Even somebody like John, even if just in his onesided "buddy, I will have your back!" way of protecting Bruce, because I do not see Batman being able to condone John's idea of Vigilantism to the point of wanting to cooperate with him.
I would prefer Tiffany to just take over Lucius's role and, if she has to go on the field, for that to be minimal and on a strict case-by-case basis. But, at least, she is young but still adult.
What I seriously, seriously dislike and hope NEVER to see in telltale's continuity are all the teenage sidekicks, or worse, children sidekicks, clearly created just to appeal to the younger audience of comics and cartoons and giving them characters in whose drama and angst they can identify. Not only because it is annoying, not only because it is unrealistic, but because I would hope that somebody like Batman does not basically recur to the romanticized version of child labour and child soldiers in his upholding of "justice", but only has the aid of people who can give very well informed consent
.
I can tolerate ONE Robin, if done well, for the sake of tradition, preferably over 18, but I alwasy vastly prefer all the canons in which he is not present. When Batman has more sidekicks, with increasingly ridiculous names, than Joker has henchman and a "family" bigger than the ones in soap operas, then Batman honestly does not even feel like Batman anymore, but more like a parody that is in serious need of a reboot.
I want the cannon fodder so I'm down with it.
Maybe this is why many young fans like Damian Wayne, and many adults don't.
I kinda agree the Robins seem redundant. But the Arkham video games actually made a good interpretation of both Nightwing and Red Robin, even Jason.
Yes, I agree that Nightwing and Red Robin were done very well in the Arkham games, but they were adults and only appeared in a marginal way, so they were not too intrusive in the plot and did not derail it too much or take too much of the attention. Moreover, they were presented to us as already part of the family for a while, we never got the build up on how they got to know Batman or started working with him or so on. Which is fine in a game like the Arkham game, where story is just part of the focus.
In the genre of game Telltale makes, unless they make them appear off screen between seasons, they would have to introduce them and build a relationship with Bruce that is believable. It could maybe work if they create a Nighwing that appears out of the blue and that Batman initially mistrusts and feels is invading his "territory" and then somehow starts cooperating with. But I would feel pretty difficult to make this become some sort of "family" relationship in a believable way. And at that point a role similar to that of Nighwing can be covered well by any of the characters that are already there. Tiffany already will be always far more "family" than some newcomer, just for her ties with Lucius and having known Bruce for so many years.
What I hope never happens and I personally would not enjoy, is playing a full season of Bruce Wayne struggling in his role as a foster father to some young and likely angsty character, as much as I personally enjoyed the dynamics in Walking Dead Season 1 between Lee and Clementine. But Lee was not a vigilante or training Clementine to be one and I think that the focus of Batman should stay elsewhere, because personally for my taste the greatest strength of Batman has always been the exploration of Bruce/Batman's psychology and his interactions with all the various villains and the exploration of their psychology and what makes them different or similar to Batman's. But of course I understand that this is just my personal preference and that other people may enjoy other dynamics or aspects more.
I understand what you mean. Robin was indeed created to appeal to a younger audience, that was back in the time when comics were mostly considered a thing for kids. The Dark Age of comics changed that. And you are right, Robin looked kinda ridiculous around the 70's. Only when he graduated to Nightwing his character became more appealing for the times.
I personally feel that Richard Grayson is the only true Robin though. If he appears in this universe I actually want him as a child, but not a sidekick. Maybe only a child Bruce adopts, I think they could make a good story out of it. But yes, I understand that the kiddy/daddy issues can be annoying. That's one of the reasons I got tired of Damian. I think he worked best as Richard's Batman though. He should have stayed as an Elseworld character, but that's just me.
For some reason, I can imagine Telltale throwing a big curveball and introducing these famous characters in a different light.
What if Nightwing (who was never Robin in this universe) was just some wannabe Batman, misguided by his own actions and past? Your job would be to take him down, not recruit him. Same thing with Robin... We can have the benefit of including these characters in the canon but at a different angle. They could be villains.
If Telltale doesn't do the "child apprentice" arc, or even upgrades it to a "competent adult companion", there's always some other alternative like this. They can do whatever they want with these characters.
Food for thought.
thats a good idea for 1 of them. i like the idea of when similar things in a story happen they're different in some way. so like 1's an apprentice, 1's misguided by his inspiration of batman and 1 a villain's lackey to begin with.
I don't know, I can't picture Dick as an adult in a first meeting with Bruce. For me, that is what always kinda bothered me in the movies. The directors in the movies just don't understand the character. Lego Batman did better, by not only making Robin an essential part of what makes Batman a hero, but a character that actually humanizes him.
Robin is a protégé, an heir to the cowl and Batman is his mentor, his replacement shall he fail. And Richard Grayson achieved that in the 2000's. And became one of the most popular characters in DC.
Well, for me I only like Damian (because it's his actual son), Nightwing and Batwoman (not batgirl). All the others, and there are like, hella lot, are extras for me.
I think the more times they create more "batmans" the less effect our actual Batman has. It's like telling the same joke over and over, it gets old pretty quick.
Neither do I. Her character is cliche and as long as we can tell her to stay out of my game I'm fine with it. She can work fo r Waller since she wants to for all I care.
I also see Richard Grayson as the only true Robin and the only possible successor to the cowl. If only for the sake of tradition. Damian, while understanding why he was the way he was, considering his upbringing, was by far to me the most annoying of the Robins. The second best to me is Tim Drake. Jason Todd was never a great Robin but contributed greatly to the Batman mythos with his demise and return as Red Hood. What I personally find ridiculous is when the "family" starts to include every character in the neighborhood, most of whom are teenagers. I remember the time, before the New 52 (which I was personally also glad to see re-rebooted), when there were basically two Robins, Nightwing, Spoiler (could you give a worse name to a character?), Batgirl... so much so that Batman seemed to have turned into a teenager soap opera.
I actually agree with you in that, should Bruce have an adoptive child in this universe, I would rather he stay as a "son" and never as a "sidekick". I could do with him running away at 18 and becoming Nightwing, but not with this Bruce willingly putting a child on the frontline to fight with him.
I mean, this is by far the most realistic iteration of Batman I have ever seen (as far as a millionaire fighting crime in a bat-suit can be realistic, of course), and this Bruce is the sanest and most well-grounded of them all (unless you go down the "violent" route). I mean, I love Batman since watching Batman The Animated Series as a child, but in some iterations of the comics he is basically this brooding, selfish, emotionally stunted man-child that spends days and nights in angst, driving everybody who dares caring about him crazy. Here he is actually a likable person, who does not take himself too seriously, while not being a campy buffoon, capable of loving and expressing it, capable of more or less "sane" human relationships. So if I could see some of the comics' Batman thinking that the only way to bond with an orphan they just took in is having him fight dangerous criminals together, I could not honestly see this Bruce being that emotionally unequipped to think that could be a good idea. He could adopt a child, yes, but he would not put him in the line of fire. Unless he is the "violent Batman" and goes down the "cannon fodder" route, but still...
ps. I also loved Lego Batman, precisely because it was a parody of emotionally-stunted man-child Batman and because he went from treating poor Richard as, literally, "cannon fodder", to caring about him, but that Batman and that Bruce seems quite far removed from Telltale's (although I laughed so hard when I saw the reference to lobsters Thermidor
)
I disagree completely. I love sidekicks! Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Carrie etc. I like Wild Dog on Arrow too. I'd jump at the chance to add Tiffany or someone else as an in the field partner.
Yes, yes, very eloquently put m'sir. Especially the soap opera part. I wish the comic writers would take it slowly, waay more slowly. Otherwise it ends up being too much. But at the same time, I guess that for Batman, being around for as looong as he has been around, it was inevitable for this to happen. So the reboots was the best thing they could have done. Maybe shrink down the robin count too, and if they add robins, for the love of god don't make them look like Bruce clones lol.
Even Damian Wayne really?
Yes. All of them. Damian's one of my main guys in Injustice 2.
I actually like Damian. Apart from being Bruce's son, he is also a very interesting character.
It would just be too predictable and boring if all Damian was was a good, pacific justice warrior. The fact that his character is "annoying", in a way makes it more original and entertaining. We all know it won't last forever, but at least it's waay more entertaining than Red Robin, Batgirl or Jason Todd.
eh...
I'm also firmly in the "no sidekicks/batfamily"- camp. @bluelight wrote some great posts, pointing out the ridiculousness of said concept. I'd rather not even see any adult versions. As for Batman's allies... Alfred, Gordon, Selina, Tiffany (if taking Lucius' place) and maybe Avesta -- if she doesn't turn out to be a villain later -- would be perfectly fine with me.
Honestly, one of the worst things that could happen to this verse in the future would be adding one or more of these sidekicks. In my oppinion.
I'm perfectly fine with an extended Bat-family in the same respects that Lucius Fox and Alfred Pennyworth have played and continue to play a crucial role of support without which Batman wouldn't be nearly as effective. Lucius Fox assisted in developing and constructing new technology for Batman to use, which I would very much like Tiffany to continue. As strange as the concept might be, Alfred Pennyworth does dang near everything else.
I wouldn't object to on-field occasional assistance from Iman Avesta. Right now, she's the most logical choice if Bruce actually needed it. She has combat training, and is accustomed to working in a team setting ( which is why I support her over Selina in that capacity -- this is not a knock on her. ) She'd be useful in Alfred's position at the computer while Bruce was in the field as well. [ That's assuming they don't 1) Kill Her or 2) Vicki Vale Her ].
I understand that younger sidekicks are often used to appeal to a younger audience. For anyone under the age of 18, this is not a knock against any of you. My objections to a young sidekick aren't that 'kids are annoying'. Characters are whatever the writers make them be. My issue is in how they're far too quickly used as a default damsel, and what merely having them in that position says about the people that put them there. What kind of asshole dresses a kid or teen in tights and sends them up against armed killers? It's like lowering the military recruitment age to 8 and up.
100% Agreed misses.
I also don't mind occasional support like Gordon or possibly Avesta, and Lucius and Alfred are obviously and absolute must. And the rest is true af, young sidekicks are always an instant damisel, apart from the repetitive "no! you are too young!", and the "no I'm not! look, I will save the planet in a very unlikely way to prove it to you and jumpstart myself as a sidekick forever".
What you described as "emotionally-stunned man-child" Batman is mostly Frank Miller's Batman, plus his Batman is borderline sociopath. I personally will always prefer Kevin Conroy's Batman, for me, that is the best interpretation of the character that existed.
I actually like Batman's brooding and cold personality, it makes him different from the other happy two-doers heros. But I detest the super-macho egocentrical Batman, like you.
To me, Batman only seems cold superficially, but that is because is part of his introverted and calculating personality. I have familiy members like that, and they only look cold on the outside, but can be very empathetic and warm once you get to know them. That's one of the reasons I can't stand Rebirth Batman, he is just this clincally depressed man that needs to marry to aliviate his pain. Batman is supposed to be a hero, he is hardened emotionally but has a sense of honor and determination, he dosen't give up, he dosen't dwell on "what if's". That's why he looks "cold" on the outside. To me he is just diciplined, not cold.
You have to be very compassionate to put others above yourself, and that is what Batman is. He takes the pain so others wont suffer, he is not this macho man that can do everythig because he believes himself indestructible. That's just ego. I love LEGO for pointing that on their silly movie
And well, back on topic, if we ever see Robin. I just hope he is treated like what he is, a kid and they don't give him the "Anakin Skywalker" treatment, that Damian Wayne, Weasley Crusher and the rest of the little brat-genius fashion of the 90's did to many kid characters that have become annoying today.... I only love Spiderman like that though
I know Miller and his "Year One" are staples of Batman's Mythos for many people, but personally I also vastly prefer other author's takes on Batman than his. And, since I have always liked Catwoman as a character, personally I find Miller's portrayal's of her downright insulting. Not just because he made her a hooker, but because he took an intelligent, independent lady, someone who does heists mainly "for fun" (although obviously she likely has other psychological motivations) and turned her into a desperate, poor wretch of a character, who has to do crimes to survive, basically preluding to a lot of "Catwoman the damsel in distress who needs saving" that we have also seen in other comics since then.
I agree about liking Batman's cold and brooding personality, when he (or, rather, his writer) does not go overboard with it. The reasons why Batman is by far my favourite "superhero" is that he is not a superhero. He worked to be who he is, he did not have some magical powers bestowed upon him. And that he has a reason for doing what he does, a psychological reason. He is never perfectly "sane", but there is a range between "sane" and "sociopath" in which I prefer his character remaining. I am ok with cold and distant, until you know him better or he lets you in. I am not ok with "angsty teenager x 100". In any case, I believe that his being "cold and distant", in all of his portrayals, even the "right" ones, is as much about protecting others, as it is about protecting himself, as also pointed out in Lego The Movie. He lost his loved ones very early, so letting people in means allowing for the possiblity of that same suffering once you lose them. So he saves the world and helps people, as long as it is from a safe distance and they do not come too close. But again, there is "cold and distant" and there is "emotionally abusive" with your supposedly loved ones, which he is in some of the worse iterations.
Going back to the "sidekicks", I would rather we have either an adult Robin or a child that is just an adoptive son and not a sidekick and most especially not some sort of genius, athlete powerhouse because "hey, he is gifted!". But also because, as Poptarts explained perfectly, if you heard, with no context, of "a millionaire who adopts children to then make them fight criminals on rooftops", what would you think of him? A hero or a manipulative, dangerous child abuser? I know this is fiction and comics, but come on... especially after all the "sidekicks" that have died on him, you would think Bruce would at least wait until they are of age and truly capable of deciding if they would like to put their lives on the line each night and break a thousand laws in the process
@The_Bat_Among_Us Thank you, altough I am actually a lady
. And I second you on the clones: someone in another topic posted that image from "The court of Owls" with what look like 4 Bruces of different ages (Bruce, Richard, Tim and Damian) and I remember how much I cringed when I read that comic for the first time. But it is actually also the artist's fault there (although I generally like Capullo's style). I mean, if all dark haired males looked like clones, our planet would be in some serious trouble 
@Lunat1c Thank you! I am also perfectly fine with the current allies potential we have, because there are plenty of people (mainly Avesta, Tiffany and Selina) that could help Bruce on a regular basis or from time to time (as I see Selina doing: I do not see her becoming a regular crimefighter just yet, but even if she becomes one, it will be on her terms, which is the beauty of her character)
@Poptarts I agree completely with you and thank you so much for expressing what I actually think in a much better way than I could possibly ever do.I do not have anything against children or teenagers myself, I have been one and I remember that even back then I did not like the children and teenaged sidekicks at all. Because I did not find them relatable, just completely overpowered or irrealistic. Again, I loved Walking Dead Season 1 where you basically have to take care of a child for the duration of the game. What I do not like are children or teenagers that are blatant "Mary Sues", taking on roles that make no sense for them to take (and, most especially, for adults to put them in) or that are just written as "angst machines" or "damsels in distress" to create drama once they are killed off or go on their inevitable identity crisis and turn against their "mentor" (or, more accurately, exploiter, if this were the real world
).
Yeah, comic book artists tend to draw every face exactly the same, unless it's a villain.
Personally I would want Tim Drake as robin (best robin after grayson) and have him come to bruce or batman and reveals that he knows his secret and wants to help.bruce would ignore him and tell him to go home they can also introduce Scarecrow and have Tim help him with scarecrow like how he first met him in the comics. If age is the problem they could have him 15 or 16 but I hope that he would not be 18 .
Funny that you mentioned you don't like kids "taking on roles that make no sense for them to take (and, most especially, for adults to put them in)". That totally reminds of Walking Dead Season 2 where everyone was treating you like an adult, at times I was bewildered or had to do a double take on the situation based on the way the characters reacted to Clementine and some of the stuff they made her do lol.
I agree, which is why I enjoyed Season 1 of TWD infinitely more than Season 2 and understood why Telltale felt Clementine could not be also the main character for Season 3. Honestly, besides sometimes treating her as "cannon fodder" (with plot armor), most characters really did treat her as if she were an adult, being entirely too trusting in her abilities, no questions asked. There was also the whole sometimes cringeworthy friendship with Luke, which actually had some people shipping them, although Clementine was a child (because he treated her as if she was not, although thankfully not in THAT way). Although at least in TWD we are in the zombie apocalypse, so there is really no choice but to have children learn to fight early and grow up too fast. Here... ok, Gotham is clearly one of the most dangerous places on the planet
but there is no real reason for children having to learn to fight and swing from rooftops while they are in primary school 
.
I agree, I don't mind side kicks as much when they are young adults/adults but I really don't want to see something like this shudders:
Batman is a one-man army!!! NO SIDEKICKS, even and the comic I find that annoying! For me, the best representation of Batman was the trilogy from Christopher Nolan, Christian Bale nail the character of Batman, a little bit of Gordan and Selina to help but that it
I would peter the bat-family to be like just robin , batgirl and just nightwing. No a lot of characters like in the comics.
Ha. Maybe thats why I only like Spiderman as a "teen" hero because it was kinda his decision to become one. I also like Terry McGuinnes of Batman Beyond, but only the one from the show. I can tolerate and like "special kids" as comic book heros, but not if they are suffering the "Anakin Syndrome" LOL.
You know, I don't think that arrogance and a superiority complex makes a character necessarily bad. Yet, when is from a kid I kinda have the urge to smack them.