suddenly inserted in the story as our protagonists greatest ally,
Uh, I think you got that backwards at best, Doc.
single handedly helps bring down a corrupt group of people and their experienced goons
Not...really...?
I mean, it was really just two(or three) completely different assholes(one over/against the other) and a decent handful of their underlings, when you really get down to it.
But even so, I'd argue Kate and to an extent David did far more damage without actually meaning to.
while winning the populations hearts and minds enough to step in and be become their new protector
Oh, you mean the story we were supposed to be working towards? I suppose that a decently reasonable interpretation.
after being accepted by everyone's he's met previously as their leader nearly immediately
Okay, yeah, I think that bothered most of us back in December 2016.
while also becoming the series protagonists best and most trusted friend by helping her love and trust again no matter what, in the span of days
...Did/Was he?
Cause personally, I mostly remember punishing and/or screwing her over in some way most of the time, tbh.
Also, badass sharpshooter super bat fighter(like most former baseball players) lol.
Well, that's kind of the gimmick they were going for. Just like ThatPaulGuy has Matrix-shit and contextually random ass Cavalier skills.
T
Random guy who appears out of nowhere having seemingly survived unscathed for the entirety of what's been going on, only to be suddenly inse… morerted in the story as our protagonists greatest ally, who single handedly helps bring down a corrupt group of people and their experienced goons while winning the populations hearts and minds enough to step in and be become their new protector after being accepted by everyone's he's met previously as their leader nearly immediately, while also becoming the series protagonists best and most trusted friend by helping her love and trust again no matter what, in the span of days? Also, badass sharpshooter super bat fighter(like most former baseball players) lol.
Sorry @Fangirl101 , he does.
Bit much for me to quote everything individually atm
Nah, we've had two previous games in the series that were telling one continuing story, of which ANF was advertised as a continuation. Then suddenly, here's new guy Javier, and you can be the protagonists best friend as him and help her yay
I guess the argument that David played a role could be made, since he accidentally sent Javier and his crew of ever loyal shells to a warehouse that coincidentally happened to be where the secret group of raiders who've even managed to take supplies from big name communities in the comics stores all their ill gotten goods, because plot. Kate's biggest contribution was blowing up their walls by accident and suddenly deciding she doesn't just care about herself and wants to save the good people who gathered to cheer on their leaders circus. Thankfully all these people willingly accept a complete change in leadership after things happen over a few unseen days.
The story we were supposed to be working towards was the aftermath of S2, what we got was Joe Average but not really averages wish fulfillment/fanfiction encounter with the established character in the franchise, because awesome.
Shockingly, yes, he somehow was her best and most trusted friend. Sell her out to Conrad and pick the most negative replies, after spending a day together "This is my story of AJ and why I don't trust peoples, we can has hugs." "Not sticking around bro, see ya" Halp, having period lol" "lol, was jking, I'm sticking around" "Uncle Javi I don't know how haircut works, you will give me one while I look for reassurance?" "Tell me what you think I should do about AJ, your opinion is important" "See you guys around, you all don't look awkward standing at the gate waving like you're holding back the urge to yell 'ya'll come back now, ya hear'" Terrible man
And god, when did this series become about cheap Matrix trenchcoat/wall kicks and former baseball player/super awesome good guy Negan gimmicks smh
suddenly inserted in the story as our protagonists greatest ally,
Uh, I think you got that backwards at best, Doc.
single ha… morendedly helps bring down a corrupt group of people and their experienced goons
Not...really...?
I mean, it was really just two(or three) completely different assholes(one over/against the other) and a decent handful of their underlings, when you really get down to it.
But even so, I'd argue Kate and to an extent David did far more damage without actually meaning to.
while winning the populations hearts and minds enough to step in and be become their new protector
Oh, you mean the story we were supposed to be working towards? I suppose that a decently reasonable interpretation.
after being accepted by everyone's he's met previously as their leader nearly immediately
Okay, yeah, I think that bothered most of us back in December 2016.
while also becoming the series … [view original content]
Random guy who appears out of nowhere having seemingly survived unscathed for the entirety of what's been going on, only to be suddenly inse… morerted in the story as our protagonists greatest ally, who single handedly helps bring down a corrupt group of people and their experienced goons while winning the populations hearts and minds enough to step in and be become their new protector after being accepted by everyone's he's met previously as their leader nearly immediately, while also becoming the series protagonists best and most trusted friend by helping her love and trust again no matter what, in the span of days? Also, badass sharpshooter super bat fighter(like most former baseball players) lol.
Sorry @Fangirl101 , he does.
Oh no, her simplistic responses to my conversation with someone and resorting to posing a question when she's called out on it implies she doesn't. Didn't mean to worry you there.
Javier fits some of the criteria from what I know about the label: He's highly charismatic, certain characters are too easily willing to trust him ( I.E. Clementine and Tripp) and those against him are often painted as violent psychopaths (I.E. Badger, Joan and David). That said I'm not sure how fair it is to call a playable character a Mary Sue since much of their personality (and consequently their faults) is dependent largely on the player's choices.
Oh no, her simplistic responses to my conversation with someone and resorting to posing a question when she's called out on it implies she doesn't. Didn't mean to worry you there.
That's the thing though, all of those things happen despite whatever personality you, as the player, give him. Any faults you might give him are completely overlooked. You could bash Badgers skull in and choose to go leave Kate alone in the final episode to go find Gabe and David, and Jesus will still talk about what a great leader Javier would make, despite questioning his morality after commiting the former action. 5 minutes after getting into Richmond, Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions, even if you chose to open fire on Badger while they had his wife and were offering an exchange. You mentioned Clem and Tripp, so you know it doesn't really matter what you do or say to Clem, Javier is the one person she feels comfortable around and trusts with very personal stuff after so much time was spent building up how much she wants to avoid doing exactly that. Tripp, Tripps a Trip. Show up without his friend, you're the boss, no questions asked. Bluntly brush him off when he confides about his issues with Eleanor, he'll be fine in a few minutes. Tell Joan to kill him shortly after he finds out you killed his friend the day after he met you? Water under the bridge.
Him being an expert marksman and equal fighter to people who we know have actually been out there in conflict with others rubs me the wrong way, but that's not solely limited to his character since you've got a ninja jumpkicking and wall running and Clem one handing a pistol at the end, pretty much headshotting everything on the first attempt while she's walking. These portrayals are a far cry from what we saw in the previous games. But as far as his faults and failures, they generally seem limited to being inconsequential, or non-canon game overs. Even Kate I had to tell off for the millionth time at the end of the game, and she probably came back to ask if Javier reconsidered 5 minutes after the credits rolled. You really can't do much wrong in the eyes of the characters surrounding Javier. They keep the same positive, loyal, and trusting disposition towards you.
Javier fits some of the criteria from what I know about the label: He's highly charismatic, certain characters are too easily willing to tru… morest him ( I.E. Clementine and Tripp) and those against him are often painted as violent psychopaths (I.E. Badger, Joan and David). That said I'm not sure how fair it is to call a playable character a Mary Sue since much of their personality (and consequently their faults) is dependent largely on the player's choices.
That's the thing though, all of those things happen despite whatever personality you, as the player, give him. Any faults you might give him… more are completely overlooked. You could bash Badgers skull in and choose to go leave Kate alone in the final episode to go find Gabe and David, and Jesus will still talk about what a great leader Javier would make, despite questioning his morality after commiting the former action. 5 minutes after getting into Richmond, Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions, even if you chose to open fire on Badger while they had his wife and were offering an exchange. You mentioned Clem and Tripp, so you know it doesn't really matter what you do or say to Clem, Javier is the one person she feels comfortable around and trusts with very personal stuff after so much time was spent building up how much she wants to avoid doing exactly that. Tripp, Tripps a Trip. Show up without his friend,… [view original content]
Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions
I think he decided to apologize for his actions mostly because he realized how monstrous holding a kid at gunpoint was rather than purely because of Javi's charm.
equal fighter to people who we know have actually been out there in conflict with others rubs me the wrong way
It's true that Javi can hold his own in a fight but that doesn't mean he's flawless in combat. He only won against Badger by getting his hands on a shotgun, takes a knife to the shoulder during his scuffle with the mute guy and David manages to pin him down whether Javi fights him or not.
Everything else I agree with. Despite the bad writing of ANF I have hope that Telltale will learn from those mistakes and make a good if not great Final Season.
That's the thing though, all of those things happen despite whatever personality you, as the player, give him. Any faults you might give him… more are completely overlooked. You could bash Badgers skull in and choose to go leave Kate alone in the final episode to go find Gabe and David, and Jesus will still talk about what a great leader Javier would make, despite questioning his morality after commiting the former action. 5 minutes after getting into Richmond, Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions, even if you chose to open fire on Badger while they had his wife and were offering an exchange. You mentioned Clem and Tripp, so you know it doesn't really matter what you do or say to Clem, Javier is the one person she feels comfortable around and trusts with very personal stuff after so much time was spent building up how much she wants to avoid doing exactly that. Tripp, Tripps a Trip. Show up without his friend,… [view original content]
I would of actually liked A New Frontier if it had darker themes, like people being captured in a slaughterhouse, people being chained up and some other sick stuff. Initially this was the first impression when we got a teaser trailer for A New Frontier. Throughout the whole Season I felt like A New Frontier wasn’t the threat, it was David. Before the rewrites it sounded like a very good Season. So God forbid please, NO rewrites for The Final Season!!!!!
Conrad just seemed like a very sudden shift in such a short period of time, from borderline deranged with grief to completely rational and compliant, there are a few things about the physical fight scenes but it was mainly the marksmanship. Thinking about the episodes after the first two, it spread around so that wasn't limited to Javier as the game went on.
I'm in the same boat as you in regards to TFS, I really do want and hope it's a return to form for the series. I honestly wouldn't mind if they went back to the wait times we had during the first two seasons if it meant giving the team more time to work on their story without having to sacrifice so much to deliver the episodes quickly. There's so many different moving parts that goes into creating these things, and while a lot of people didn't like the long waits, S1 and 2 were still very well received all around and wildly successful. People will wait if the wait is worth it, hopefully they'll be able to take their time and deliver something great.
Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions
I think he decided to apologize for his actions mostly b… moreecause he realized how monstrous holding a kid at gunpoint was rather than purely because of Javi's charm.
equal fighter to people who we know have actually been out there in conflict with others rubs me the wrong way
It's true that Javi can hold his own in a fight but that doesn't mean he's flawless in combat. He only won against Badger by getting his hands on a shotgun, takes a knife to the shoulder during his scuffle with the mute guy and David manages to pin him down whether Javi fights him or not.
Everything else I agree with. Despite the bad writing of ANF I have hope that Telltale will learn from those mistakes and make a good if not great Final Season.
Nah, we've had two previous games in the series that were telling one continuing story, of which ANF was advertised as a continuation. Then suddenly, here's new guy Javier, and you can be the protagonists best friend as him and help her yay
I'm pretty sure it was actually advertised as a zombie game about family. You're thinking more of the initial teaser before they even had more than a very basic premise settled down.
I guess the argument that David played a role could be made, since he accidentally sent Javier and his crew of ever loyal shells to a warehouse that coincidentally happened to be where the secret group of raiders who've even managed to take supplies from big name communities in the comics stores all their ill gotten goods, because plot.
I was more referring to how he causes a riot in town square by either taking Clint hostage or ordering Javier to shoot Joan, but that's an important factor as well.
Kate's biggest contribution was blowing up their walls by accident and suddenly deciding she doesn't just care about herself and wants to save the good people who gathered to cheer on their leaders circus.
Okay, time to put my foot here: when has Kate ever remotely indicated that she only cared for herself? Or even had any mal-intent to begin with.
Thankfully all these people willingly accept a complete change in leadership after things happen over a few unseen days.
Yeah, they did more or less sidestep dealing with that issue for the sake of brevity/conclusiveness.
The story we were supposed to be working towards was the aftermath of S2, what we got was Joe Average but not really averages wish fulfillment/fanfiction encounter with the established character in the franchise, because awesome.
Isn't that basically almost any video game though?
Shockingly, yes, he somehow was her best and most trusted friend. Sell her out to Conrad and pick the most negative replies, after spending a day together "This is my story of AJ and why I don't trust peoples, we can has hugs." "Not sticking around bro, see ya" Halp, having period lol" "lol, was jking, I'm sticking around" "Uncle Javi I don't know how haircut works, you will give me one while I look for reassurance?" "Tell me what you think I should do about AJ, your opinion is important"
So what you're saying is "Clementine's "characterization" and "role" in this installment sucks?"
"See you guys around, you all don't look awkward standing at the gate waving like you're holding back the urge to yell 'ya'll come back now, ya hear'" Terrible man
And god, when did this series become about cheap Matrix trenchcoat/wall kicks and former baseball player/super awesome good guy Negan gimmicks smh
I know right?
But to answer your question, when Telltale and Mr. Kirkman decided to tie the game in closer to the comics.
Bit much for me to quote everything individually atm
Nah, we've had two previous games in the series that were telling one continuing sto… morery, of which ANF was advertised as a continuation. Then suddenly, here's new guy Javier, and you can be the protagonists best friend as him and help her yay
I guess the argument that David played a role could be made, since he accidentally sent Javier and his crew of ever loyal shells to a warehouse that coincidentally happened to be where the secret group of raiders who've even managed to take supplies from big name communities in the comics stores all their ill gotten goods, because plot. Kate's biggest contribution was blowing up their walls by accident and suddenly deciding she doesn't just care about herself and wants to save the good people who gathered to cheer on their leaders circus. Thankfully all these people willingly accept a complete change in leadership after things happen over a few u… [view original content]
@SolidStryder and @Fangirl101
Okay you two, I'm calling you out as a separate because it's simpler to read that wayand I'm also too lazy to bother quoting ya
Yes, there are a few vague Gary Stu vibes in the execution of Javier's Story, but honestly speaking here, he's not too far off from Lee in theory and, as Fergie pointed, Clementine pretty clearly got FAR closer to being a Mary Sue by design than perhaps the two of them combined. (Not sure where Michonne falls if anywhere here and Tavia's not really worth mentioning.)
@Cocoa2736 Javier fits some of the criteria from what I know about the label: He's highly charismatic, certain characters are too easily willing to trust him ( I.E. Clementine and Tripp) and those against him are often painted as violent psychopaths (I.E. Badger, Joan and David). That said I'm not sure how fair it is to call a playable character a Mary Sue since much of their personality (and consequently their faults) is dependent largely on the player's choices.
It's true that Javi can hold his own in a fight but that doesn't mean he's flawless in combat. He only won against Badger by getting his hands on a shotgun, takes a knife to the shoulder during his scuffle with the mute guy and David manages to pin him down whether Javi fights him or not.
Everything else I agree with. Despite the bad writing of ANF I have hope that Telltale will learn from those mistakes and make a good if not great Final Season.
This is another great point.
What he said, minus the part about Joan being painted as a psychopath, since that was clearly more aimed in David's direction.
minus the part about Joan being painted as a psychopath, since that was clearly more aimed in David's direction.
I guess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars. I didn't dislike Javi but at the same time he didn't really manage to get me invested in his character or his relations to close ones in the same way Lee did.
I often critisize ANF and I still think that it is the weakest season so far but looking back on it now, I realize that it really wasn't that bad of a game and has some good moments. One thing I have learned from playing ANF is to not allow myself to get too caught up in the hype and to avoid going in with too high of expectations. My expectations for ANF were so unreasticaly high it caused me to be dissapointed with the end product when it really wasn't that woefully terrible. I think the reason I enjoyed season 1 so much is because I went in expecting it to be stupid. I was bored and stumbled across a screenshot of the game and I thought "Looks like somebody made a cartoon game for the walking dead this looks hilarious. Well I'm bored and the first episode is free so I may as well get a kick out of it!" Then when I played the game I was blown away by how amazing it was. I don't think ANF was as terrible as most people make it out to be. While it has been my least favorite season so far, I was genuinely excited when new episodes came out and found enjoyment in them.
The fact that you enjoyed ANF is awesome. Don't let the pessimism of others ruin the things you like.
A New Frontier was heavily marketed as a continuation to the past seasons
Obviously its worded so its not a "lie" even though it is. But it still says continues because the basic audience is obviously going to think continues = continuation not "The name continues, the story doesnt."
This ad is what they showed on TV many times, so yes they were advertising it as a continuation, and this is just the tv commercial, not including all the lies before the game released with Telltale claiming how it was a real continuation and sequel.
Nah, we've had two previous games in the series that were telling one continuing story, of which ANF was advertised as a continuation. Then … moresuddenly, here's new guy Javier, and you can be the protagonists best friend as him and help her yay
I'm pretty sure it was actually advertised as a zombie game about family. You're thinking more of the initial teaser before they even had more than a very basic premise settled down.
I guess the argument that David played a role could be made, since he accidentally sent Javier and his crew of ever loyal shells to a warehouse that coincidentally happened to be where the secret group of raiders who've even managed to take supplies from big name communities in the comics stores all their ill gotten goods, because plot.
I was more referring to how he causes a riot in town square by either taking Clint hostage or ordering Javier to shoot Joan, but that's an important factor as well.
… [view original content]
I guess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
No, I meant how her blatant characterization shift was clearly meant to justify David going full jackass.
She was just an Affable Well-Intentioned Extremist that was somewhat starting to border into Knight Templar territory beforehand.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars.
And how, pray tell, is Rey a Mary Sue? Especially after the Last Jedi.
Can I just say that Mary Sue(or any of it's variations) was a term I didn't particularly cared for?
@DaBigRG
minus the part about Joan being painted as a psychopath, since that was clearly more aimed in David's direction.
I gu… moreess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars. I didn't dislike Javi but at the same time he didn't really manage to get me invested in his character or his relations to close ones in the same way Lee did.
To be fair, that's the retail version that came out a month or two after the premiere, it just said the "game series"(which could easily include Michonne, which is further applicable with Mr. Kirkman's name immediately after), and while you're right that some people did understandably hop back on because of Clementine established place, her presence was very downplayed(which is more or less a hilarious case of truthful advertisement in hindsight).
A New Frontier was heavily marketed as a continuation to the past seasons
Obviously its worded so its not a "lie" even though it is. … moreBut it still says continues because the basic audience is obviously going to think continues = continuation not "The name continues, the story doesnt."
This ad is what they showed on TV many times, so yes they were advertising it as a continuation, and this is just the tv commercial, not including all the lies before the game released with Telltale claiming how it was a real continuation and sequel.
To be fair, saying "Telltale's global hit game series" is going to make everyone think Season 1 and Season 2 of Telltale's Walking Dead as it says continues and shows Clem. Anyone who played S1 and S2 and was a fan but didnt really pay attention up to release and then saw this on TV is obviously going to think "omg Telltale's third Walking Dead game!" especially after seeing Clem at the end, who gets the most attention out of this trailer at the end with a lingering shot and her talking the most and explaining the most about what the game is going to be about. Like I already said, they didn't "lie" lie, but its just an obvious way to trick anyone viewing the ad to think its a real continuation, when in reality it isnt a continuation at all. Also again, this is just one case of advertising the game as if it works as a continuation, before release Telltale was constantly hyping up that ANF would be what fans were hoping for with a proper continuation, and kept saying Clem was going to be MAJOR as well as that whole blog post claiming Telltale was going to have over 40+ versions, which again was a lie about seasons continuing.
To be fair, that's the retail version that came out a month or two after the premiere, it just said the "game series"(which could easily inc… morelude Michonne, which is further applicable with Mr. Kirkman's name immediately after), and while you're right that some people did understandably hop back on because of Clementine established place, her presence was very downplayed(which is more or less a hilarious case of truthful advertisement in hindsight).
Don't forget the consistent Clem advertising till they decided to advertise Javier more one or two weeks before release. Don't forget that we had to learn about Clem only being playable in flashbacks from a bloody Amazon listing instead of Telltale themselves. Don't forget about the fact that they had "(Season 3)" in the title and they removed it a day before release on steam (evidence of it existing is still in the steam game files):
To be fair, that's the retail version that came out a month or two after the premiere, it just said the "game series"(which could easily inc… morelude Michonne, which is further applicable with Mr. Kirkman's name immediately after), and while you're right that some people did understandably hop back on because of Clementine established place, her presence was very downplayed(which is more or less a hilarious case of truthful advertisement in hindsight).
Rey became more of a Mary Sue after Last Jedi, I dont want to go off topic here because this isnt about Star Wars and theres a whole Last Jedi thread but Ill just say something quickly on how she is a Mary Sue, so spoilers below:
Force Awakens we are believed Rey's parents are someone who was a pretty big deal, and then its revealed she was literally a nobody. So now shes just some random girl whos apparently fantastic af at the force. She masters the force after 2 five minute lessons with Luke that weren't even really lessons, and then beats Luke in the fight extremely easily, she then goes and saves everyone using the force that she only knew she had for like a week now. Seeing how long it takes everyone else to master the force, it makes no sense why she is so good at it. It wouldnt even be that bad if the reveal was her parents were a super strong Jedi, but they arnt, so it feels even more cheap. And this is just a little bit from Last Jedi, not even including Force Awakens moments (which werent that bad first viewing, because again we assumed back then Rey's parents were some type of Jedi and there was some backstory on why the force was so strong with her.)
I guess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep… more's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
No, I meant how her blatant characterization shift was clearly meant to justify David going full jackass.
She was just an Affable Well-Intentioned Extremist that was somewhat starting to border into Knight Templar territory beforehand.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars.
And how, pray tell, is Rey a Mary Sue? Especially after the Last Jedi.
Can I just say that Mary Sue(or any of it's variations) was a term I didn't particularly cared for?
And how, pray tell, is Rey a Mary Sue? Especially after the Last Jedi.
She:
Has no remarkable character flaws to speak of.
Displays masterful techniques in both lightsaber combat and spaceship flying.
Is immensely potent with the force despite receiving little training.
Is vastly stronger in the force than Ben, a descendant of the man born from the force itself, for no reason since it was explicitly told in the reveal that her parents were nobodies.
Very rarely loses a fight if at all, even against Snoke's presumably well trained personal guards.
Believes she can redeem the antagonist Kylo Ren.
Has characters like Finn and Han warm up to her rather quickly.
Before The Last Jedi I didn't have a problem with Rey being exemplary at everything she did but now that it was revealed that she has no strong familial connections to the force unlike Luke she's just really powerful with the force for no particular reason.
I guess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep… more's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
No, I meant how her blatant characterization shift was clearly meant to justify David going full jackass.
She was just an Affable Well-Intentioned Extremist that was somewhat starting to border into Knight Templar territory beforehand.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars.
And how, pray tell, is Rey a Mary Sue? Especially after the Last Jedi.
Can I just say that Mary Sue(or any of it's variations) was a term I didn't particularly cared for?
I like Rey, I thought Daisy did a great job as her. Her overpowering Kylo for the light saber in Awakens, and defeating him in a duel, that was a bit much. Even Luke got handily destroyed by Vader during their first fight, in force and weapon handling. As bad as TPM and AOTC were, just being an excuse to finally give us ROTS, I really didn't want Lucas handling another trilogy. Now I think we might have been better off with him if the alternative was handing the follow-ups to multiple people. So many of the major points of The Last Jedi felt less like organic transition and more like they wanted to defy expectations, as though the big reveals and moments were there to say "hah, GOTCHA!" So many implications about Rey in TFA were just suddenly dropped.
Awesome. You're in the minority, most of us thought the first two seasons were far superior. But no ones saying you can't enjoy the game. Simply popping up to inform us you like it doesn't really provoke a constructive conversation. It seems more defensive than anything. I could repeatedly make threads about how, as someone who's actually Hispanic, Javier felt like a whitewashed character and they maybe should have had someone who could actually speak Spanish assume the role. But that would just be me airing personal grievances, and wouldn't really foster any type of conversation if I started a thread about it.
I'm glad you found it enjoyable, but a good deal of us didn't for a variety of reasons. That shouldn't impact how you felt about it, but there's no need for people to counter the numerous issues others raised about various aspects of the games with "I liked it".
S3 wasn't boring for the most part if you want to talk about it on those terms. I still have quite a few negative feelings regarding s3 due to where they decided to go with it. Most annoying for me was how they threw away most decisions made in previous seasons. The type of person you were trying to become, who you went with etc.
Awesome. You're in the minority, most of us thought the first two seasons were far superior. But no ones saying you can't enjoy the game. Si… moremply popping up to inform us you like it doesn't really provoke a constructive conversation. It seems more defensive than anything. I could repeatedly make threads about how, as someone who's actually Hispanic, Javier felt like a whitewashed character and they maybe should have had someone who could actually speak Spanish assume the role. But that would just be me airing personal grievances, and wouldn't really foster any type of conversation if I started a thread about it.
I'm glad you found it enjoyable, but a good deal of us didn't for a variety of reasons. That shouldn't impact how you felt about it, but there's no need for people to counter the numerous issues others raised about various aspects of the games with "I liked it".
I mean you can say its "action centered" so its not boring, but I would say overall the plot is just bland. Nothing really happens that the player actually cares about, it makes the whole conflict feel artificial because unlike S1 and S2 theres a huge disconnect for the player and the characters on their feelings on the events happening in the game.
S3 wasn't boring for the most part if you want to talk about it on those terms. I still have quite a few negative feelings regarding s3 due … moreto where they decided to go with it. Most annoying for me was how they threw away most decisions made in previous seasons. The type of person you were trying to become, who you went with etc.
Of course you'd get hate for saying this. Personally, I liked it as well, it wasn't as bad as people like to say it is, although there just wasn't as many difficult choices as there were in S2 and especially S1. I would definitely not put it ahead of S1 or S2, but I don't consider it a flop as much as people like to say. Of course I will NEVER forgive Telltale for killing Kenny the way they did in ANF, but that's the only major complaint I have on ANF, along with some minor ones. All in all, I think a lot of people consider it bad because the bar was set pretty high with S2 and particularly S1 and ANF just didn't reach those two. But in no circumstance would I say it was terrible.
Also i think people didn't like this season because it didn't end with that "empty" feeling the first two seasons did,i really didn't like the "happy ending" in A New Frontier.I didn't like Season 2 because they killed Luke (that character was perfect and had so much potential) and how they killed Nick and Sarah but at least they ended it with a Fight.
Not to mention the fact that I felt more attached to Season 2 characters and think they deserved better, I never cared for anyone in ANF and I was okay with them dying.
Also i think people didn't like this season because it didn't end with that "empty" feeling the first two seasons did,i really didn't like t… morehe "happy ending" in A New Frontier.I didn't like Season 2 because they killed Luke (that character was perfect and had so much potential) and how they killed Nick and Sarah but at least they ended it with a Fight.
I agree, Season 1 had shoot Lee. Lee's whole death scene was really devastating for almost every player. Season 2 had Kenny Vs Jane, which wasnt as hard for some people, it was still a tough choice and determinatly pulled emotions from the player (if you shot Kenny and you liked him, and then the whole wellington or Kenny choice) However the problem with Season 2 was if you hated Kenny you werent going to feel that emotional or find the choice that hard, but I would say season 2's ending still had an "emptiness" feel for the most part, just not as much as Season 1 where everyone felt it. Then ANF comes and its "big choice" (I guess?) was either "Go here or go there" and then someone dies off screen. It just really missed the emotional mark. The only determinate death of Kate, Gabe, and David that you can see on screen is Gabe, but the problem is, no one really cared about Gabe at all. No one was sad by it, it was just "o gabe dies" or "Thank god Gabe died" and sadly this is just another example of the main problem with ANF, the characters in the game care about people/things that the player does not care about at all.
Also i think people didn't like this season because it didn't end with that "empty" feeling the first two seasons did,i really didn't like t… morehe "happy ending" in A New Frontier.I didn't like Season 2 because they killed Luke (that character was perfect and had so much potential) and how they killed Nick and Sarah but at least they ended it with a Fight.
I actually cared much less for S2 characters then ANF, personally. Just felt like they all got what was coming to them looking at a pre-teen girl for leadership. Kenny may have been a crazy, violent psycho by this point but at least he tried to lead too and wanted to protect those that were loyal to him. S1 characters stuck together there and it was never really an issue for me. The rest of them felt like cannon fodder from the beginning to me. ANF at least felt like anyone's game and you really never knew who was going to survive, I certainly felt that after the first episode.
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Uh, I think you got that backwards at best, Doc.
Not...really...?
I mean, it was really just two(or three) completely different assholes(one over/against the other) and a decent handful of their underlings, when you really get down to it.
But even so, I'd argue Kate and to an extent David did far more damage without actually meaning to.
Oh, you mean the story we were supposed to be working towards? I suppose that a decently reasonable interpretation.
Okay, yeah, I think that bothered most of us back in December 2016.
...Did/Was he?
Cause personally, I mostly remember punishing and/or screwing her over in some way most of the time, tbh.
Well, that's kind of the gimmick they were going for. Just like ThatPaulGuy has Matrix-shit and contextually random ass Cavalier skills.
T
Bit much for me to quote everything individually atm
Nah, we've had two previous games in the series that were telling one continuing story, of which ANF was advertised as a continuation. Then suddenly, here's new guy Javier, and you can be the protagonists best friend as him and help her yay
I guess the argument that David played a role could be made, since he accidentally sent Javier and his crew of ever loyal shells to a warehouse that coincidentally happened to be where the secret group of raiders who've even managed to take supplies from big name communities in the comics stores all their ill gotten goods, because plot. Kate's biggest contribution was blowing up their walls by accident and suddenly deciding she doesn't just care about herself and wants to save the good people who gathered to cheer on their leaders circus. Thankfully all these people willingly accept a complete change in leadership after things happen over a few unseen days.
The story we were supposed to be working towards was the aftermath of S2, what we got was Joe Average but not really averages wish fulfillment/fanfiction encounter with the established character in the franchise, because awesome.
Shockingly, yes, he somehow was her best and most trusted friend. Sell her out to Conrad and pick the most negative replies, after spending a day together "This is my story of AJ and why I don't trust peoples, we can has hugs." "Not sticking around bro, see ya" Halp, having period lol" "lol, was jking, I'm sticking around" "Uncle Javi I don't know how haircut works, you will give me one while I look for reassurance?" "Tell me what you think I should do about AJ, your opinion is important" "See you guys around, you all don't look awkward standing at the gate waving like you're holding back the urge to yell 'ya'll come back now, ya hear'" Terrible man
And god, when did this series become about cheap Matrix trenchcoat/wall kicks and former baseball player/super awesome good guy Negan gimmicks smh
Nah.
Can't argue with that compelling argument. You should probably look up what a Mary Sue is though, you'll be less wrong next time.
I know exactly what Mary Sue is. Just because you see Javier as such doesn't mean I have to as well.
How does Clementine NOT fit this category, then?
You clearly don't.
So because she doesn't agree with you, it means that she doesn't know what she's talking about?
You’re overstepping a bit and it’s getting too heated over something so simple, please tone it down, thanks.
Oh no, her simplistic responses to my conversation with someone and resorting to posing a question when she's called out on it implies she doesn't. Didn't mean to worry you there.
Javier fits some of the criteria from what I know about the label: He's highly charismatic, certain characters are too easily willing to trust him ( I.E. Clementine and Tripp) and those against him are often painted as violent psychopaths (I.E. Badger, Joan and David). That said I'm not sure how fair it is to call a playable character a Mary Sue since much of their personality (and consequently their faults) is dependent largely on the player's choices.
Yeesh, you leave internet access for a few hours and things get a little hectic.
Stryder and Fergie, I'll get to each of you in a bit.
That's the thing though, all of those things happen despite whatever personality you, as the player, give him. Any faults you might give him are completely overlooked. You could bash Badgers skull in and choose to go leave Kate alone in the final episode to go find Gabe and David, and Jesus will still talk about what a great leader Javier would make, despite questioning his morality after commiting the former action. 5 minutes after getting into Richmond, Conrad suddenly realizes how great Javier is and apologizes for his actions, even if you chose to open fire on Badger while they had his wife and were offering an exchange. You mentioned Clem and Tripp, so you know it doesn't really matter what you do or say to Clem, Javier is the one person she feels comfortable around and trusts with very personal stuff after so much time was spent building up how much she wants to avoid doing exactly that. Tripp, Tripps a Trip. Show up without his friend, you're the boss, no questions asked. Bluntly brush him off when he confides about his issues with Eleanor, he'll be fine in a few minutes. Tell Joan to kill him shortly after he finds out you killed his friend the day after he met you? Water under the bridge.
Him being an expert marksman and equal fighter to people who we know have actually been out there in conflict with others rubs me the wrong way, but that's not solely limited to his character since you've got a ninja jumpkicking and wall running and Clem one handing a pistol at the end, pretty much headshotting everything on the first attempt while she's walking. These portrayals are a far cry from what we saw in the previous games. But as far as his faults and failures, they generally seem limited to being inconsequential, or non-canon game overs. Even Kate I had to tell off for the millionth time at the end of the game, and she probably came back to ask if Javier reconsidered 5 minutes after the credits rolled. You really can't do much wrong in the eyes of the characters surrounding Javier. They keep the same positive, loyal, and trusting disposition towards you.
...
I think he decided to apologize for his actions mostly because he realized how monstrous holding a kid at gunpoint was rather than purely because of Javi's charm.
It's true that Javi can hold his own in a fight but that doesn't mean he's flawless in combat. He only won against Badger by getting his hands on a shotgun, takes a knife to the shoulder during his scuffle with the mute guy and David manages to pin him down whether Javi fights him or not.
Everything else I agree with. Despite the bad writing of ANF I have hope that Telltale will learn from those mistakes and make a good if not great Final Season.
I would of actually liked A New Frontier if it had darker themes, like people being captured in a slaughterhouse, people being chained up and some other sick stuff. Initially this was the first impression when we got a teaser trailer for A New Frontier. Throughout the whole Season I felt like A New Frontier wasn’t the threat, it was David. Before the rewrites it sounded like a very good Season. So God forbid please, NO rewrites for The Final Season!!!!!
A New Frontier would have been better if it was a dark game and not some PG-13 action garbage type of thing.
Conrad just seemed like a very sudden shift in such a short period of time, from borderline deranged with grief to completely rational and compliant, there are a few things about the physical fight scenes but it was mainly the marksmanship. Thinking about the episodes after the first two, it spread around so that wasn't limited to Javier as the game went on.
I'm in the same boat as you in regards to TFS, I really do want and hope it's a return to form for the series. I honestly wouldn't mind if they went back to the wait times we had during the first two seasons if it meant giving the team more time to work on their story without having to sacrifice so much to deliver the episodes quickly. There's so many different moving parts that goes into creating these things, and while a lot of people didn't like the long waits, S1 and 2 were still very well received all around and wildly successful. People will wait if the wait is worth it, hopefully they'll be able to take their time and deliver something great.
I'm pretty sure it was actually advertised as a zombie game about family. You're thinking more of the initial teaser before they even had more than a very basic premise settled down.
I was more referring to how he causes a riot in town square by either taking Clint hostage or ordering Javier to shoot Joan, but that's an important factor as well.
Okay, time to put my foot here: when has Kate ever remotely indicated that she only cared for herself? Or even had any mal-intent to begin with.
Yeah, they did more or less sidestep dealing with that issue for the sake of brevity/conclusiveness.
Isn't that basically almost any video game though?
So what you're saying is "Clementine's "characterization" and "role" in this installment sucks?"
I know right?
But to answer your question, when Telltale and Mr. Kirkman decided to tie the game in closer to the comics.
@SolidStryder and @Fangirl101
Okay you two, I'm calling you out as a separate because it's simpler to read that wayand I'm also too lazy to bother quoting ya
Yes, there are a few vague Gary Stu vibes in the execution of Javier's Story, but honestly speaking here, he's not too far off from Lee in theory and, as Fergie pointed, Clementine pretty clearly got FAR closer to being a Mary Sue by design than perhaps the two of them combined. (Not sure where Michonne falls if anywhere here and Tavia's not really worth mentioning.)
This is another great point.
What he said, minus the part about Joan being painted as a psychopath, since that was clearly more aimed in David's direction.
@DaBigRG
I guess sociopath would be a more appropriate title for her since she isn't grossly violent. She's mostly just portrayed as a bitch in sheep's clothing. While she doesn't directly hold a grudge against Javi she still threatens his friends and family which does put her and Javi on opposing sides due to their associations.
To be honest Javier's Marty Stu moments didn't leave that bad a taste in my mouth when compared to a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars. I didn't dislike Javi but at the same time he didn't really manage to get me invested in his character or his relations to close ones in the same way Lee did.
I often critisize ANF and I still think that it is the weakest season so far but looking back on it now, I realize that it really wasn't that bad of a game and has some good moments. One thing I have learned from playing ANF is to not allow myself to get too caught up in the hype and to avoid going in with too high of expectations. My expectations for ANF were so unreasticaly high it caused me to be dissapointed with the end product when it really wasn't that woefully terrible. I think the reason I enjoyed season 1 so much is because I went in expecting it to be stupid. I was bored and stumbled across a screenshot of the game and I thought "Looks like somebody made a cartoon game for the walking dead this looks hilarious. Well I'm bored and the first episode is free so I may as well get a kick out of it!" Then when I played the game I was blown away by how amazing it was. I don't think ANF was as terrible as most people make it out to be. While it has been my least favorite season so far, I was genuinely excited when new episodes came out and found enjoyment in them.
The fact that you enjoyed ANF is awesome. Don't let the pessimism of others ruin the things you like.
A New Frontier was heavily marketed as a continuation to the past seasons
Obviously its worded so its not a "lie" even though it is. But it still says continues because the basic audience is obviously going to think continues = continuation not "The name continues, the story doesnt."
This ad is what they showed on TV many times, so yes they were advertising it as a continuation, and this is just the tv commercial, not including all the lies before the game released with Telltale claiming how it was a real continuation and sequel.
No, I meant how her blatant characterization shift was clearly meant to justify David going full jackass.
She was just an Affable Well-Intentioned Extremist that was somewhat starting to border into Knight Templar territory beforehand.
And how, pray tell, is Rey a Mary Sue? Especially after the Last Jedi.
Can I just say that Mary Sue(or any of it's variations) was a term I didn't particularly cared for?
To be fair, that's the retail version that came out a month or two after the premiere, it just said the "game series"(which could easily include Michonne, which is further applicable with Mr. Kirkman's name immediately after), and while you're right that some people did understandably hop back on because of Clementine established place, her presence was very downplayed(which is more or less a hilarious case of truthful advertisement in hindsight).
To be fair, saying "Telltale's global hit game series" is going to make everyone think Season 1 and Season 2 of Telltale's Walking Dead as it says continues and shows Clem. Anyone who played S1 and S2 and was a fan but didnt really pay attention up to release and then saw this on TV is obviously going to think "omg Telltale's third Walking Dead game!" especially after seeing Clem at the end, who gets the most attention out of this trailer at the end with a lingering shot and her talking the most and explaining the most about what the game is going to be about. Like I already said, they didn't "lie" lie, but its just an obvious way to trick anyone viewing the ad to think its a real continuation, when in reality it isnt a continuation at all. Also again, this is just one case of advertising the game as if it works as a continuation, before release Telltale was constantly hyping up that ANF would be what fans were hoping for with a proper continuation, and kept saying Clem was going to be MAJOR as well as that whole blog post claiming Telltale was going to have over 40+ versions, which again was a lie about seasons continuing.
Don't forget the consistent Clem advertising till they decided to advertise Javier more one or two weeks before release. Don't forget that we had to learn about Clem only being playable in flashbacks from a bloody Amazon listing instead of Telltale themselves. Don't forget about the fact that they had "(Season 3)" in the title and they removed it a day before release on steam (evidence of it existing is still in the steam game files):
Rey became more of a Mary Sue after Last Jedi, I dont want to go off topic here because this isnt about Star Wars and theres a whole Last Jedi thread but Ill just say something quickly on how she is a Mary Sue, so spoilers below:
Force Awakens we are believed Rey's parents are someone who was a pretty big deal, and then its revealed she was literally a nobody. So now shes just some random girl whos apparently fantastic af at the force. She masters the force after 2 five minute lessons with Luke that weren't even really lessons, and then beats Luke in the fight extremely easily, she then goes and saves everyone using the force that she only knew she had for like a week now. Seeing how long it takes everyone else to master the force, it makes no sense why she is so good at it. It wouldnt even be that bad if the reveal was her parents were a super strong Jedi, but they arnt, so it feels even more cheap. And this is just a little bit from Last Jedi, not even including Force Awakens moments (which werent that bad first viewing, because again we assumed back then Rey's parents were some type of Jedi and there was some backstory on why the force was so strong with her.)
Spoilers for new Star Wars movies
She:
Has no remarkable character flaws to speak of.
Displays masterful techniques in both lightsaber combat and spaceship flying.
Is immensely potent with the force despite receiving little training.
Is vastly stronger in the force than Ben, a descendant of the man born from the force itself, for no reason since it was explicitly told in the reveal that her parents were nobodies.
Very rarely loses a fight if at all, even against Snoke's presumably well trained personal guards.
Believes she can redeem the antagonist Kylo Ren.
Has characters like Finn and Han warm up to her rather quickly.
Before The Last Jedi I didn't have a problem with Rey being exemplary at everything she did but now that it was revealed that she has no strong familial connections to the force unlike Luke she's just really powerful with the force for no particular reason.
I like Rey, I thought Daisy did a great job as her. Her overpowering Kylo for the light saber in Awakens, and defeating him in a duel, that was a bit much. Even Luke got handily destroyed by Vader during their first fight, in force and weapon handling. As bad as TPM and AOTC were, just being an excuse to finally give us ROTS, I really didn't want Lucas handling another trilogy. Now I think we might have been better off with him if the alternative was handing the follow-ups to multiple people. So many of the major points of The Last Jedi felt less like organic transition and more like they wanted to defy expectations, as though the big reveals and moments were there to say "hah, GOTCHA!" So many implications about Rey in TFA were just suddenly dropped.
You know there's already a thread about Star Wars guys.
I liked it too but guess I'm wrong. Oh well.
Awesome. You're in the minority, most of us thought the first two seasons were far superior. But no ones saying you can't enjoy the game. Simply popping up to inform us you like it doesn't really provoke a constructive conversation. It seems more defensive than anything. I could repeatedly make threads about how, as someone who's actually Hispanic, Javier felt like a whitewashed character and they maybe should have had someone who could actually speak Spanish assume the role. But that would just be me airing personal grievances, and wouldn't really foster any type of conversation if I started a thread about it.
I'm glad you found it enjoyable, but a good deal of us didn't for a variety of reasons. That shouldn't impact how you felt about it, but there's no need for people to counter the numerous issues others raised about various aspects of the games with "I liked it".
S3 wasn't boring for the most part if you want to talk about it on those terms. I still have quite a few negative feelings regarding s3 due to where they decided to go with it. Most annoying for me was how they threw away most decisions made in previous seasons. The type of person you were trying to become, who you went with etc.
"Listen to me Gabe, we need to stop the """"MOO-AR-TOES"""""" from coming inside the house!"
I mean you can say its "action centered" so its not boring, but I would say overall the plot is just bland. Nothing really happens that the player actually cares about, it makes the whole conflict feel artificial because unlike S1 and S2 theres a huge disconnect for the player and the characters on their feelings on the events happening in the game.
Of course you'd get hate for saying this. Personally, I liked it as well, it wasn't as bad as people like to say it is, although there just wasn't as many difficult choices as there were in S2 and especially S1. I would definitely not put it ahead of S1 or S2, but I don't consider it a flop as much as people like to say. Of course I will NEVER forgive Telltale for killing Kenny the way they did in ANF, but that's the only major complaint I have on ANF, along with some minor ones. All in all, I think a lot of people consider it bad because the bar was set pretty high with S2 and particularly S1 and ANF just didn't reach those two. But in no circumstance would I say it was terrible.
Also i think people didn't like this season because it didn't end with that "empty" feeling the first two seasons did,i really didn't like the "happy ending" in A New Frontier.I didn't like Season 2 because they killed Luke (that character was perfect and had so much potential) and how they killed Nick and Sarah but at least they ended it with a Fight.
Not to mention the fact that I felt more attached to Season 2 characters and think they deserved better, I never cared for anyone in ANF and I was okay with them dying.
I agree, Season 1 had shoot Lee. Lee's whole death scene was really devastating for almost every player. Season 2 had Kenny Vs Jane, which wasnt as hard for some people, it was still a tough choice and determinatly pulled emotions from the player (if you shot Kenny and you liked him, and then the whole wellington or Kenny choice) However the problem with Season 2 was if you hated Kenny you werent going to feel that emotional or find the choice that hard, but I would say season 2's ending still had an "emptiness" feel for the most part, just not as much as Season 1 where everyone felt it. Then ANF comes and its "big choice" (I guess?) was either "Go here or go there" and then someone dies off screen. It just really missed the emotional mark. The only determinate death of Kate, Gabe, and David that you can see on screen is Gabe, but the problem is, no one really cared about Gabe at all. No one was sad by it, it was just "o gabe dies" or "Thank god Gabe died" and sadly this is just another example of the main problem with ANF, the characters in the game care about people/things that the player does not care about at all.
I actually cared much less for S2 characters then ANF, personally. Just felt like they all got what was coming to them looking at a pre-teen girl for leadership. Kenny may have been a crazy, violent psycho by this point but at least he tried to lead too and wanted to protect those that were loyal to him. S1 characters stuck together there and it was never really an issue for me. The rest of them felt like cannon fodder from the beginning to me. ANF at least felt like anyone's game and you really never knew who was going to survive, I certainly felt that after the first episode.