Could their plan to escape Carver in Episode 3 had worked better if Kenny didn't beat Carver?
If kenny hadn't beaten Carver to death and just simply killed him and that's it, could their plan to escape worked better?
Did Kenny waste valuable time?
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Probably.
The group spent at least a minute before getting covered and ready to move on. And while I believe Tavia and her men were already in position by that point and there's still a chance someone could've gotten hit by a stray bullet, you never know what having different timing and mental states could turn out.
It's also worth noting that Troy came outside through a different area and didn't seem to know Carver was dead, so it's also a ballgame of whether he would've seen them sneaking away through the crowd or not and what he would've done either way.
Definitely, however, this is kind of with Kenny. Acting before thinking. He wanted revenge so he took it. In fact a lot of Kenny in season 2. Trying to escape Howe's without a plan, Trying to escape the truck with a horrible plan. He did a lot of actions before thinking it over in this game series.
God bless everyone.
Just watched the scene again on Youtube... no I don't think so. The horsing around of actually deciding what to do with Carver took up more time than the beatdown itself. Had Kenny simply shot him straight away, Luke and some of the softer members would have wanted to have a nice little discussion about if what Kenny did was the right thing, taking up even more time.
And then there is a question of waiting for the walkers to come so you could smear the shit on them in the first place. If they try just walking out there, they are walking into a heard without the blood and guts on them. This sounds just as dangerous if not more to me.
Lol Kenny wasting valuble time? Is this another blaming scenario? No, he was not wasting time. Was Rebecca to blame too for staying and watching Carver’s death? Or Clementine?
As @wdfan said, the group hadn’t decided what they were doing when they got outside, they needed to wait for a walker to come over to open it up and smear themselves as well.
Lol!!!!
The Howes escape plan was a joint idea between the whole group not just him. As for escaping the truck, Kenny is like this when he is scared and comes out with amusing stuff like that. He doesn’t always think things through no, but unlike the rest of the group who’d rather sit on their asses and twiddle their thumbs, at least he was trying to do something.
Kenny certainly wasted valuable time by torturing Carver instead of killing him instantly but the whole walking through the herd deal fell apart because of Sara's freak out, not Kenny. If Kenny hadn't wasted that time things might have gone a little smoother but I don't think there would have been much of a difference.
They should have just fed him to the walkers lol
Nah, time wasn't the issue. The issue was the bullets flying around and Sarah freaking out. The danger would have been there regardless.
Which is funny considering Carver was dead on the second hit.
Fixed. Would've been more explicit originally, but it's still true.
Funnily enough, I think it would've been appropriate if they tied Carver up like Luke said and essentially used him as a cowcatcher.
Well Sarah s freak out happened because of Carlos s death i mean she was nervous before but she was still Just whispering.
Yeah I know. She had every reason to freak out. I should have phrased that better.
I meant his initial plan for Howe's escape. Remember the plan where he didn't know how to deal with the herd, or with the people at Howe's. The one which Mike said was a bad plan because you don't plan to improvise. Kenny doesn't sometimes not think things through, he almost always doesn't think things through. Even in season 1 with the boat. Kenny almost never thinks things through.
God bless.
Oh. You know what, I'm honestly not sure.
Like, I wanna kneejerk and say that plan would've been fuckin stupid, but there's some context and other variables that should probably be taken into account.
Well he basically wanted to draw walkers with sound so that the place (and i quote) “would be fucking chaos when that thing hits” as he stated. Jane pitched in on the idea that it would work covering themselves with guts, then Rebecca discussed the speaker in Carver’s office so that’s what i meant by it being a joint plan. Yes, Kenny doesn’t always think things through, but he never sits back and does nothing i guess.
That's one thing I like about Kenny. He doesn't always think things through and can sometimes be a total idiot. But I admire that he always takes action instead of sitting by doing nothing. Kenny's flaws in combination to his strengths are what make him such well written character. Whether you are a fan of him or not.
Yes without a doubt. That’s why i rate him so highly. He is a realistic human character with human flaws. He divides opinion because of this. He tells you exactly what he thinks of you or a situation and some people don’t like that but i see it as honesty. In all the time he has been around, Kenny never lied to anyone about anything has he? That’s the main reason i would want the guy around in a ZA, at least you know you can trust him, even if he is difficult at times
Agreed!! From my point of view I think Kenny has a good reason to be frustrated when you disagree with him. We all know that relationships will be strained during the Apocalypse due to people fighting for their own survival rather than fight for someone else's. In a situation such as the one presented in The Walking Dead you do need Trust and Loyalty to survive (That is my belief). I feel that Kenny wants to have someone he knows will have his back and help him through the tough situations that he goes through. He does not think things through entirely but with the high pressure situations that occur in the universe it would be difficult to calmly think things over and come up with a plan. Kenny wants to deal with the threat as it occurs. I know my reasoning may be all over the place or nonsensical to some users but it is a valid reason to me
THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what i am saying too! Some people don’t understand or ignore this simply because they can’t forget any times he has been “mean” to them. Get over it i say...
No. Because, before going into the herd, they needed to cover themselves with walker guts. The walkers they use for that got closer after a couple of minutes. Killing Carver or not wouldn't have mattered.
There's nothing really stopping them from baiting one over.
They could have lured over too many of them.
Fair enough. I guess I'm just thinking of this one instance in which a single walker is intentionally called over.
There are times where does need to be calmed down but he is only human and mistakes are common in everyone. I hear that a lot of people do not enjoy A New Frontier but if there is one thing you can take from it..... Kenny was willing to sacrifice himself and get brutually killed by Walkers so two children can live. Despite his flaws (Everyone has flaws) Kenny is a good guy and a loving friend
I don’t think so. Didn’t Rebecca say she thought the walkers were coming from the south? That pretty much derailed their plan and the fact that Tavia and the others were shooting at them from on top of the building. That and Sarah’s state pretty much ruined the plan.
Honestly, I think it mostly comes down to bad luck. However, you could place a small bit of blame on Kenny and Jane if you really wanted to.
Kenny for sticking around to beat down Carver instead of getting on with it, and Jane for shooting Troy, which might be the reason why the guards started opening fire on the group (they heard the gunshot and went to that side of the store).
But beyond that, it was just bad luck. Carlos got unlucky, a stray bullet happened to hit him, and one thing led to another from there. Everything from that point forward couldn't have really been prevented from happening. I wouldn't put blame on Sarah's freak-out, though. The situation already went to hell, her screaming didn't really make anything worse than it already was as far as I'm concerned.
You know what, I was wondering why Tavia's men seemed to suddenly pop in over the group's paths despite the fact that you could hear them shooting and yelling before that point.
Not to mention everyone else was supposed to be freakin the fuck out there as well, albeit with another motivator added on. Sarah just happened to be the first and probably the loudest for the brief amount of time before she fled.
In Jane's defense Troy was waving a gun around threatening to shoot. As awful as it was he deserved it and if Jane didn't kill him he probably would have shot Luke or someone else. Troy's death diverged a portion of the groups attention to him thinning out the herd a little. Though it did draw attention to that side of the building though. Even then, Sarah was on the verge of a freak out even before Carlos died so I don't even think things would have been much different even if there weren't people shooting on that side of the building.
Eh, I kinda doubt it. Keep in mind that he was more interested in figuring out why the fuck the group were covering themselves in guts and only turned his gun on Luke to get him to back off from reaching for his gun.
Also, I seriously doubt he'd be dumb enough to shoot anyone when he's on the ground with the herd barely 10ft away. There's being base and then there's just being hazard blind.
Oh yeah, what, three walkers left the rest of the herd to get him? Totally useful.
It's very possible that the one-two punch of Kenny blowing Carver's kneecaps before beating his face in with a crowbar(which Carlos covers her ears for, humorously enough) and then Jane specifically castrating Troy so he'd be eaten alive as they leave already had Sarah nerves undone, so it's not like Jane really helped there.
Also, speaking of Sarah, fun fact about that: there seems to be a few lines suggesting she was going to stray from the group and blankly creep off at one point, for some reason.
Possibly but we have to consider that this universe runs on Telltale logic. You can decide to either wait a few days to venture out or do so immediately after Rebecca has the baby and the group will still get held up by the Russians in the exact same way. Who's to say Kenny killing Carver quickly wouldn't just result in the next scene playing out identically to when he does waste time bashing Carver's head open had Telltale made that a canon route in the story?
Troy had his gun right in Luke's face, his finger on the trigger. Troy wasn't above hurting people he can determinantly hit Clementine several times and he would have smaked Sarah if Carlos didn't do it, I wouldn't but Troy above killing people. The chances are he probably would have shot someone if Jane didn't intervene. I'm not saying Jane was a major help to the situation, but she isn the reason things fell apart. Her action were not any worse than Kenny's. Honestly I don't think things would have gone much different if both Kenny and Jane didn't do the things they did.
Actually, i think their plan was gonna work if Sarah didn't panic. Seriously, Sarah panicked and everything happened like shitshow : Sarita got bit , Kenny was broken , Nick was shot , Rebecca was not gonna pass the herd . It was better that Kenny finished him, cause it could be a lot worse and they could've started shooting them , not the walkers .
Yeah but sometimes you need to sit back and bide your time. Acting without thinking is sometimes worse than sitting back for a while.
The plan was pretty stupid. He's basically like "We'll improvise once we get to the herd. Really!? Like Mike said (or something like this) you don't plan to improvise.
The way i look at it though is by sitting back and biding time, you might be dead by then. Carver was shown to kill Reggie in an instant, if someone else fucked up he probably would have done the same. Not to mention Kenny’s eye bashing was enough for even Bonnie to want to get the hell out. Sometimes the actual smart thing to do is to be dangerous by improvising a plan as it could equally work out ok but the risk of it falling apart is always there too.
I think the main reason for the plan was that using the walkers to help them escape wouldn’t have been an option again once the herd had passed if they had sat back and waited so ultimately I think it was the best plan that the whole group agreed on
My only thing with that is when Jane shot him it gave the walkers a distraction so they could slip through more easily
Yeah, I'm surprised Troy was only worried about them covering themselves with walker guts. Shouldn't he be more concerned about the door being open or the fact that he literally just passed Carver's dead body?
The compound is under attack, and your leader is dead. I'm guessing you should forget the prisoners, close the door and go tell your group about Carver, so the next person in the chain of command, probably Tavia, can take charge of the situation.
Troy was never the smartest, but I would never get out of the compound when a herd was coming lol.
Agreed. That's a Plan C at best.
Actually, Troy had crawled from under a different door away from the one the Howe's Ski Cabin Group came out of and was really just reacting to his first observation after getting outside himself.
Thus, I really doubt he saw or perhaps even heard what happened to Carver, which makes his reaction to Jane's proposition even more interesting.
Now that you mention it, I kinda have to wonder why he came outside in the first place. Perimeter check?
Neither was Season 2’s writers lol
Damn, beat me to it.