Why wasn't TNF a developed group?

Probably the biggest let down for me with S3 is that The New Frontier wasn't really interesting. During the early trailers we saw a brand mark on Javier implying that he would become a member. Melissa also mentioned in an interview that TNF was originally supposed to be run by a big bad mastermind "Carver esque character". Ava was alsp goven more of a backstory. What leaves me feeling like this was a wasted opportunity is that the game is literally named after the group and they're propped up to be generic with nothing really special to them. I would have liked to see a dark hero vibe to the group and give the player a reason to want to side with them in the ultimate inner conflict of whether giving up morality to survive is worth it. Instead we got a herd....

Comments

  • edited March 2018

    One of the biggest letdowns for sure. The whole "we take the brand to prove our loyalty" excuse in episode three honestly had me chuckling at how ridiculous they made the whole group look. The whole advertising back in June surrounded this mark, you saw Javier and a walker both branded with it, the bloody game screens all featured it, it was connected to the Virginian Capricorn Farms which is an actual goat farm IRL... to see them reducing it to one sloppy line which hardly explained anything was honestly both extremely hilarious and extremely sad.
    I'm not sure where I heard it, but that "Carver-esque character" was called Mason, he had Lingard's design and he was also the mastermind behind the whole group. Instead we got a drug addict, yay!

    What really intrigues me about it all is why they decided to scrap the story they originally had. They started advertising it as it was back in June at E3, we even saw screenshots of what appeared to be fully animated scenes in fully developed game areas (Slaughterhouse). They were definitely committed on shipping that story back then.

    As we neared the November release date they actually started showing less and less actual in game content - something extremely unusual as you usually tend to release more content the nearer to release you get. At some point there was even some leaked screenshot of Javier and Clem arguing in Prescott during day time, something which blatantly looked like a promotional screenshot but never got officially released to the public. Finally we got the one month delay announcement and then the whole "we split the premiere into two parts" extremely easy-to-see-through lie used to cover up the fact that they somehow only ended up with content for 4 episodes! (The fact that they actually thought the fans would get fooled by that is very telling).

    In the last ANF AMA we were given the excuse that the original "didn't feel like an authentic The Walking Dead story". I just don't buy that. A story which spent years in the works, worked on by several people doesn't just magically end up not being "TWD enough". Who even decides if it "not TWD enough" and who has the authority to just dictate that's how it is and turn the whole project upside down? I can think of two people, one being Robert Kirkman and the other being a former Telltale employee which I cannot mention, but this recent Verge article should tell you enough.

  • Um, do you not count the Council? Cause even then, Ava and to an extent Max were pretty interesting.

  • edited March 2018

    They still weren't nearly as fleshed out as they were meant to be. Ava was supposedly meant yo have a backstory which is something nearly every character in ANF lacked. The council didn't seem to have much purpose other than that "LOL FUCK DAVID" moment at the end of episode 3

    DabigRG posted: »

    Um, do you not count the Council? Cause even then, Ava and to an extent Max were pretty interesting.

  • After dozens of rewrites it would be impossible to maintain a coherent script in ANF. that simple.

  • They still weren't nearly as fleshed out as they were meant to be.

    Fair enough.

    The council didn't seem to have much purpose other than that "LOL FUCK DAVID" moment at the end of episode 3

    Honestly, based on what we know of earlier drafts, I assume the Council exists as a way to have David be a significant figure alongside Mason and/or Joan so that loses something when they take over and has an inherent reason to have allies and followers to use in the Civil War.

    Clemenem posted: »

    They still weren't nearly as fleshed out as they were meant to be. Ava was supposedly meant yo have a backstory which is something nearly ev

  • There was so much promotional material and build up for The New Frontier it was disappointing when they never really ended up getting developed and the brand became a forgettable detail.

    It would have been so much more interesting if a fleshed out civil war in Richmond actually happened. In episode 3 personally I think it would have been a better story if Javier and company had to join the New Frontier and get branded so Kate could get medical help. They should have been building up Joan, Clint, Dr. Lingard, David, Ava, and conflict between the different branches of Richmond during episodes 3 and 4 instead of having that stupid revenge on Badger arc. It would have been great if Badger was simply pardoned for his crimes and wasn’t a major arc of episode 3. Throughout the series he is a minor character who commits terrible crimes but never has to own up for the things he does until the finale when he shows up as one of the guys Javier fights and kills during one of the action sequences.

    Clementine’s past with The New Frontier should have been more complex and relevant in the story. Instead of David kicking Clem out of the New Frontier because she steals (or planned on stealing) medicine to save AJ when she apparently should have left him to die, and then when they kick her out they keep AJ anyways even though David just barely said that she should have left AJ in the woods to die a week ago. (That sentence I just wrote is very confusing but that is exactly what Clem’s past with the TNF can be summed up to.) I think it would have been better if the Clementine flashbacks had taken place at the orchard where The New Frontier had previously called home before Richmond. The New Frontier actually nurtures AJ back to health but decides that Clem is too young and incapable of taking care of AJ and thus separates them by force. Clementine makes a desperate attempt to get AJ back. This attempt leads to an accidental chaotic fire that destroys the orchard. Clementine makes her way through the chaos and watches in horror as the house where AJ was previously being held in collapses in flames. As far as Clem knew she had just watched AJ’s demise so the way she acts in ANF makes more sense. AJ isn’t revealed to be alive until some time during episode 4 or 5. This way TNF actually have a genuine reason to hate Clem and Javier’s association with her makes it difficult to earn the trust of certain people in Richmond.

  • Im pretty sure i saw the original plot for ANF, which involved Clem and Javi fighting to get their loved ones back from ANF. Basically Javi told his story to Clem via flashbacks only for the episode 4 reveal to be that he was actually the leader of TNF, and his "loved ones" were actually his prisoners. That would have been a cool twist imo, I don't think we've ever played as a secret antagonist.

  • Because ANF wasn't a developed game.

  • All the rewrites proved how fucking clueless the writers were for Season 3. I expect the same treatment of S4 and probably their other future games too.

  • So much of this is on point. Well done, Cristina.

    They should have been building up Joan, Clint, Dr. Lingard, David, Ava, and conflict between the different branches of Richmond during episodes 3 and 4 instead of having that stupid revenge on Badger arc.

    Clint is the worst offender of that.

    It would have been great if Badger was simply pardoned for his crimes and wasn’t a major arc of episode 3. Throughout the series he is a minor character who commits terrible crimes but never has to own up for the things he does until the finale when he shows up as one of the guys Javier fights and kills during one of the action sequences.

    I legitimately considered something along this line a few times.

    Instead of David kicking Clem out of the New Frontier because she steals (or planned on stealing) medicine to save AJ when she apparently should have left him to die, and then when they kick her out they keep AJ anyways even though David just barely said that she should have left AJ in the woods to die a week ago. (That sentence I just wrote is very confusing but that is exactly what Clem’s past with the TNF can be summed up to.)

    That clearly just David being more of an angry dick in the moment than necessary, to be fair. Ava and Lingard only relented in this case because there were clear pros to keeping the presumed to be doomed AJ with them rather than letting him go back into the wild with Clementine.

    The New Frontier actually nurtures AJ back to health but decides that Clem is too young and incapable of taking care of AJ and thus separates them by force.

    This is what some of us thought they were going for with Ava.
    Part of me hopes this actually comes into play during TFS.

    I think it would have been better if the Clementine flashbacks had taken place at the orchard where The New Frontier had previously called home before Richmond. Clementine makes a desperate attempt to get AJ back. This attempt leads to an accidental chaotic fire that destroys the orchard.
    Clementine makes her way through the chaos and watches in horror as the house where AJ was previously being held in collapses in flames. As far as Clem knew she had just watched AJ’s demise so the way she acts in ANF makes more sense.
    AJ isn’t revealed to be alive until some time during episode 4 or 5. This way TNF actually have a genuine reason to hate Clem and Javier’s association with her makes it difficult to earn the trust of certain people in Richmond.

    Not sure about the part I separated, but this sounds like it would've been a much more interesting way of approaching the feud.

    Veeeee posted: »

    There was so much promotional material and build up for The New Frontier it was disappointing when they never really ended up getting develo

  • edited March 2018

    only for the episode 4 reveal to be that he was actually the leader of TNF, and his "loved ones" were actually his prisoners. That would have been a cool twist imo, I don't think we've ever played as a secret antagonist.

    I'm really not to sure about this going over very well. It seems a little too hokey, defeating, and [in]convenient for the setup/premise, not to mention confusing and contradictionary.

    Im pretty sure i saw the original plot for ANF, which involved Clem and Javi fighting to get their loved ones back from ANF. Basically Javi

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