Did YOU ever consider John a friend?
In the game itself Bruce definitely used John, used him a lot actually, but you could still do quite a bit to be friendly to him (I did pretty much all of it), but there was always a hint of deception there just because of the circumstances. On the other hand I as a player was constantly hoping for more friendly options, so I am very glad with the final John choice where you can tell him that he was actually a friend. I knew it was inevitable that he was going to turn, that was what made it heartbreaking, I wanted to help him and be nice to him.
That is why it's so sad that things ended up like this.
What about you? Did you or your Bruce consider him a friend? I imagine that most people who ended up with a villain did not, but if you did can you explain your reasoning?
Comments
Not at all. Dude is beyond unstable, he could never be my friend. I used him all the way.
Absolutely.
So you ended up with villain I am guessing, did you like (enjoy) the version of Joker that you created? Do you think your actions led to a worse situation? I am not judging you by the way or anything I am just asking about your opinion on the villain path, because I did not play that yet :P
No, I went the Vigilante path because I viewed Waller as more of a threat.
My Joker was okay I guess. I just view him as a naive idiot who inevitably went full-on crazy.
I got Waller and Harley out of Gotham, stopped the virus, and put Joker in jail (sucker still thinks I'm his friend). So overall I'm pretty happy with my results yeah!
Damn even though we were playing the same game we really did make entirely different choices and interpretations of characters then.
So you chose to put Harley and Bane behind bars as your favor and lied to Joker at the final choice by the way? And just out of curiosity what was your relationship with Catwoman?
@ComicMan
I did both paths. I loved both. The vigilante path has the most funny moments though. Besides, vigilante Joker was never really done in any Batman canon that I'm aware of.
Villan Joker was the classic Joker, so not really surprised there, but the acting of Anthony Ingruber and the way he pauses and delivers some of the lines.... man, you could really feel the pain hidden under all that hate.
I felt really bad for the Joker despite all his craziness and cruelty. I really liked both endings, and I can't decide which one to take as my own canon playthrough.
Harley and Catwoman ended up as Waller's slave for The Agency. I think Bane is too (I forget if he died or not..). I also included Joker in the offer but he found out and went nuts. In return I got that whole group to leave Gotham and Agent Avesta to stay, and she now works for me.
And yeah I lied to Joker at the end and said I thought of him as a friend (and he believed me).
My relationship with Catwoman was good and we sort of had a romance, but I chose Avesta over her in the deal because 1) Catwoman can handle herself 2) Whilst I'm fond of Catwoman, she's a thrill seeker and ultimately unreliable 3) Avesta is a civilian and she seems level headed, so I'm happy to have her work for me and help out Batman. She seems reliable and rational.
I think I honestly just like the uniqueness of vigilante Joker and the fact that I feel like the friendship WAS genuine gives it a lot of weight.
Excactly. The Joker this whole Season is the best fleshed out character Telltale has on their Batman game. John has even more characterization than the other characters combined.
Even his friendship with Bruce feels to me more genuine than Bruce romance with Selina, only because of the amount of time given to him.
And well, I have never seen Joker trying to do "good". It was really a refreshing take on the character.
Of course! Throughout the whole game, the choices I made, the things I said.. it was all to benefit John! No one else mattered for me
Of course I consider him a friend. I was so happy that at the end of the Vigilante path I could see them friends again with Bruce visiting John Doe at Arkham despite Joker's brutal breakdown and tragic fight against Batman.
Yes, I consider him a friend, I'm glad he and Bruce are still friends in my ending.
Besides being psychotic, he possess a lot of qualities I admire.
I knew he had my back, I knew he genuinely cared, I knew he was struggling, which I can relate to, and I knew he needed support and REAL people in his life.
In the end I think "Bruce visits Arkham" outcome was really indicating how their friendship not only survived, but evolved in something much more healthy and stable. No more manipulation or pretending, both know who they are and accepting each other. And both know there their friendship stands. And, one less toxic aspect - Bruce is no more trying to shape Joker into something Joker is not, and Joker is not trying to be something he's not for Batman's liking only.
That's probably a weird thing to say but I didn't feel I was using him at all.
And I can think over it over and over and I still can't figure exactly why..
When you encouter him I saw him more like a person needing help as he was just released.
So yeah a friend.
Friend? No, not really, although from the very beginning my Bruce was as honest with John as possible. I just simply didnt want to hurt the guy, e.g. for that very reason I didn't agree to pinky swear. My Bruce didnt really try to manipulate Him or exploit their relationship to get what He wants, He also never told John that He actually is his friend, neither did He ask Him any favours.
My Bruce considered john his friend and really wanted to help him. He tried to steer him in the right direction.
He was a friend, a trouble friend. A shame that I also used him even though he was a friend, oh well.
I certainly consider him a friend, I’m very sad that the season couldn’t end with them being partners. Maybe after he gets hold of his impulse control He and Batman can come to an understanding and work together again. No torturing for a confession but yes to getting information out of them. No premeditated murder but yes to killing to save the lives of Cops, civilians, Batman or himself. Something like that.
I said yes to John being a friend. He's been a good dude and I tried to do my best with him. Knowing his future I tried to do my best. Which is why I went Vigilante route
Why did you continue lying to him about being friends? That was supposed to be a moment of true honesty between the two of them about how you feel. There's nothing to gain by manipulating him past that point because he is captured, and it's not lying to him because the game thinks you meant it and has Bruce visit John in Arkham and both of them are happy to see each other.
Because he's the Joker and most likely will be up to no good again at some point. Better to have his trust than not.
Yes. The best
I really did considered him a friend.
He wanted to introduce you to his friends so called pact.
He was taking selfies with you.
You went on a trip together to Riddlers hideout.
Drinking caffeine and sugar, pinky swear, high five. He wanted to do anything for his friend Bruce like stealing Harleys laptop and lying to Harley. He even kept your identity a secret because thats what real friends do he said. I team up with him because i knew the agency is bad and they need to leave Gotham.
After all we were been thru, yes i consider him a friend, i can kinda relate to him too.
On the villain ending where you say "yeah we did have some good time together, not all of them were bad"
Then he stabs you and gives you a scar to remember him, i wanted to say thank you lol.
He is special on his own way.
I know it was bad he killed those agents but it was self defense i belive him because they are shoot first ask questions later and they even tried to kill him on bridge afrer he helped them, i dont blame him they made him to hate agency.
I told him yes, and to be real with you? John was so endearing that somewhere along the line I completely forgot that I was only supposed to "use him." I think it's how he just lights up when you look at him
It's like Alfred said at the very beginning... You can become the role and forget who you are. At the beginning we were pretending to be friends, but over time it became real. I can definitely relate to that.
Absolutely. 100% Friends for life!
I still remember the choice in the funhouse, the turning point in your relationship with him. John is just standing there, surrounded by dead bodies, but saying it was self defense. I picked trust because I wanted to believe in him, but at the back of my mind I was like "Alright I did it, now come on you unstable boy prove me wrong, stab me in the back." I'm ashamed that my trust in him wavered. Telltale really outdid themselves this time with their portrail of his character
Yup, he was a friend- I wish I could have totally sided with him against the agency...
The evolution of this Joker was nothing short of amazing- I really liked the guy, insanity and all and felt he was one of the most genuine characters in the game (Alfred aside). Even catwoman would steal from you but John was unconditionally loyal.
What a hell of an ending too- The person acting the Joker really made this his own and by the end of the evolution he was 'the Joker'- He surpassed Hammel imho and this joker was wildly manic and insane in such an incredible way that I put this up there with 'Killing Joke'.
Fantastic game.
It's sad that Joker still ended up being the final opponent instead of Waller. I actually like this Joker too. I frowned when I saw him back at that asylum. But I'm glad Bruce can visit him.
Same
I did. At first I thought he was just using me, so I used him in return. When I realized, in ep 2, that he was indeed genuine, I actually felt for him. I had few doubts he would go full crazy no matter what, it’s just who he is, but at least I’m glad we’re still sort of friends.
I don't know how anyone could say otherwise... I mean he was talking pas-tense. "Did you ever," not "Am I" Of course John was my friend, and that's all he really needed, a friend. Sure he killed those 3 agents, but he was surrounded, and yes, the guy was unstable, but that doesn't make him immediately evil. The agency as a whole are shitty, because of Waller. Harrison tried to kill Batman, John, and Willy. Waller sends her agents out on suicide missions, uses criminals to do her dirty work, which is just so, so wrong. Besides, Tiffany killed, and she's not a bad person. John needs a friend.
I did but I got more pissed with him throughout episode 4 and 5
Vigilante, by the way
It was unfortunate that Joker ended up where he started, at Arkham.
Well the $1 million question is what will he turn out to be like in season 3? Waller has left Gotham and I think he still holds a grudge against her for wrongfully accused him of Riddlers Murder.
At Ace Chemicals, he rightfully pointed out the bad things she has done.
Too bad Telltales did not give us the option of letting Joker execute Waller and provide us with a different ending, making both himself and Batman as fugitives. It is wrong for her to let her just walk away and not stand trial for some of things she did.
I still remained his friend and he described Bruce as "one messed up guy"
Yes.
I wanted to save him but he was too far gone.
I never really liked the joker as a character, but john doe... Not being able to help his sanity felt just devastating, so not only i liked the character, but i considered him a real friend, still do actually, problem is that he is sick in the head, the kind of sickness we just cannot remove with surgery or medication...
I considered John a friend. I knew he would eventually become Joker but I wanted to see how it would go down if John and Bruce were friends. At first in season 1, I wanted nothing to do with him but when appearing in season 2, I changed my mind.
Plus he helped Bruce with many situations (Arkham, Laptop, SANTUS), how could I not be his friend. Also, I wanted to get as many photos with him as I could.
In the after-scene, when Bruce visited John at Arkham, I was happy as the stitch wasn't broken.
My first playthrough, I didnt trust him initially but he kept his promises like giving you a lead on Riddler, something which I never expected. And he was honest with you, although he did rat out Tiffany to Harley if you kept Tiffany Hidden during Episode 2.
At the Funhouse, I believed him that he killed the Agents in Self Defense but he omitted details of what really happened. The gunshot wound in the back of one agent and another in the chest of the guy lying against the wall lead me to think that Harley shot them because John didnt have a gun on him. HE may have killed the other agents with an object that I saw on the floor (looked like a light post).
He denied killing the Riddler, and it was proven that he was telling the truth.
He even kept his word of defusing the situation on the bridge, but I took a chance and put faith in him even though there was the chance he could have doubled crossed you. But he didn't
Definitely yes, with all my heart.
Despite how it all went, the ending scene when Bruce goes to visit him in Arkham makes me so happy. Maybe they can maintain some sort of a friendship.. John's happy "Bruce!!" and that smile gives me life.
If you wait in Ace Chemicals for Joker and Waller to finish talking, Joker outright says that he was going to give her the virus before she pulled the gun on him.