I just replayed the episode and one think bugs me about this theory. When you play with the knowledge of things that will happen at the end,… more it's pretty obvious that Brody and Marlon are hiding something. Now, how on Earth could Clementine have sort of a prophetic/revelation dream about what happend/ will happen?
Might be that they are indeed hiding something but if this is a dream, Clementine's imagination did its work and it's just something she imagined.
The other thing is, as other said, why spend 20 minutes on choices that won't even matter, it's not even an illusion of choice at this point. I'm really looking forward how it will play out.
E//: > you can actually see AJ leave the group and move to the left in the group shot right before Marlon gets s
Just as @CharacterSupporter said, i also noticed that, but him picking up the gun from the ground still annoys me a bit. Either it's a plothole aor just they assumed: "It's his gun after all, why should we intervene"
That would actually be a very interesting thought experiment if it was true. You go through a whole series of emotions over a long period, the ominous build up the final moments with Brody, the big reveal, Marlon losing it, the intense basement sequence, light dripping with blood, the confrontation in the thunder, a tonne of character development, especially for Brody and Marlon, AJ's final shot.
Have the players soak in the emotions and analyse this for a few months while they wait, and when the next episode goes around, it was all a dream? What will players ask themselves? Is Marlon still unstable? Why was Brody angry earlier? Do the bandits still exist? How will players treat the characters after this confusing dream? Will Clementine lash out at people? Will the player treat Marlon differently, experiencing this progression from trust to anger, and taking that away? Maybe Clementine will be paranoid, she might worry Marlon is abusive or threatening towards Brody, she might confuse the other kids. Will players take away AJ's gun? How will he react to this?
It makes the player question how much they should trust characters, and it would make for a fun experiment to see how peoples choices change.
@Ashran makes a good point. If this does turn out to be a dream, think of how that gives the player a deeper insight into Clem's psyche. She has had a rough childhood and likely internalized a lot of what she witnessed despite being strong. What if it morphed into a form of PTSD and she is now projecting those bad experiences on the new group she is with?
This would reinforce why she avoids groups and even why AJ acts the way he does as Clem raised him to be mistrusting of others through her unconscious actions.
As interesting, albeit wasteful, as it would be - I don't believe the end of Episode One is a dream sequence.
As for the lighting being the same, I don't believe it's a production error or a story point. It'd be for game play purposes, as you can adjust your lighting. There's only so dark a game can go before it becomes unplayable in a point and click adventure.
The noise from the pipes anyone could have heard, but it depends on two factors: How heavy of a sleeper they are, and how well their hearing functions. Honestly, it could be argued either way of who has better hearing under the circumstances ( as Clem and AJ do fire a gun without hearing protection when they have bullets ), but also having lived as prey in a more open environment it would also be more fine tuned.
AJ does listen to Clem, but to a point. After already having discussed biting, AJ is still violent later toward Marlon elbowing him in the crotch. Yes, it's more of an instinct that he hasn't been able to shake yet, and this moment is a bit of disjointed as AJ lived among them ( as a terror ) while Clem recovered. He also didn't have his gun then, and holding them at gunpoint demanding her location might've been what happened if he'd had it when they were separated for too long earlier.
The Marlon and Brody fight does have indicators earlier in the Episode. Marlon is aggressive when challenged about the food situation. It's expressed that the school is for troubled youths. He's shown near his breaking point during certain dialogue choices in his office. Brody turning is because her brain didn't sustain enough damage before she dies. Walkers who die of brain trauma don't go down because they have a blunt force gash in their heads.
As for the AJ teleportation, that's more or less a toss up between continuity error and intentional. It could imply that everyone is hyper focused on the confrontation between Marlon waving a gun around and Clementine being a possible murderer. They don't notice his movements beneath their own transfixed gaze.
I mean if this gets enough support then it might be episode 2 lol, of course every episode since then would be pushed back to make up for the new direction, but I'll accept it so Marlon can live
As interesting, albeit wasteful, as it would be - I don't believe the end of Episode One is a dream sequence.
As for the lighting being t… morehe same, I don't believe it's a production error or a story point. It'd be for game play purposes, as you can adjust your lighting. There's only so dark a game can go before it becomes unplayable in a point and click adventure.
The noise from the pipes anyone could have heard, but it depends on two factors: How heavy of a sleeper they are, and how well their hearing functions. Honestly, it could be argued either way of who has better hearing under the circumstances ( as Clem and AJ do fire a gun without hearing protection when they have bullets ), but also having lived as prey in a more open environment it would also be more fine tuned.
AJ does listen to Clem, but to a point. After already having discussed biting, AJ is still violent later toward Marlon elbowing him in the crotch. Yes, it's more of … [view original content]
If it is a dream, it wouldn't be a bad way to show Clem's fear for AJ's well-being, or for her safety at the school. They did the same thing… more with Lee after Duck got bit. However, Clem dreaming the entire last, eventful twenty minutes just seems far-fetched to me, because then it all becomes irrelevant. Most of your points could just be more of Telltale's oversights as well. But I wouldn't mind them somehow reversing AJ's killing of Marlon.
Look, you can find "proof" for almost anything if you stretch hard enough. At the end of the day, the final act of episode 1 being a dream would be a shitty ruse and all impact would be removed from the events. It's stupid, it's lazy, and it completely ruins the most interesting episode 1 ending we've had yet. I'm 90% sure Telltale knows what a shitty decision this would be and won't go that route.
Well if everything was a dream then you couldn't say Marlon is a coward. Before that last scene Marlon actually seemed pretty protective and nice. But yeah still Clem leading the group would be more badass, especially when Lilly shows up with her group. Then it's basically going to be Clem vs Lilly and not Marlon vs Lilly which isn't as exciting.
It wouldn't be a ruse. It's actually rather ingenious of them to pull off if it's to occur like @Wiso2kinfinity & @MrGraffio suggest. That would actually raise their storytelling bar for me. The show has gotten away with hallucinations and dream sequences like this, I don't see why the game couldn't either.
I'm not saying they're going to go LiS1 with it and now Clem has this foresight ability now via lucid dreaming or something all because she didn't get proper medical treatment for her car injury, but
'stranger things' have happened and coincidentally, that's also their next IP, so yeah. I hope this was a dream sequence.
Look, you can find "proof" for almost anything if you stretch hard enough. At the end of the day, the final act of episode 1 being a dream w… moreould be a shitty ruse and all impact would be removed from the events. It's stupid, it's lazy, and it completely ruins the most interesting episode 1 ending we've had yet. I'm 90% sure Telltale knows what a shitty decision this would be and won't go that route.
Maybe. Possibly. I do have to point out that it wasn't storming when Clem wakes up. She goes out and it's cloudy and windy but there's no rain or lightning or thunder to drown out her smashing the lock. There's no rain, thunder, or lightning until after Marlon kills Brody.
I mean is it possible that the hallucination of Marlon being shot in the head is the take on when Sam in Lord of the Flies tongue is swollen, and he's hallucinates that he's having a conversation with the impaled pig's head, the “Lord of the Flies.”?
Or the fact she overheard the conversation in the basement between Brody and Marlon. IDK, but like many have here already stated, others should've been awoken by their loud arguing or Clem's banging on the basement cellar padlock. I'm pretty sure it echoed just like their voices were echoing throughout the corridor. I don't care who you are, if you hear someone doing that, you're going to go check it out. For all they know, a herd of walkers could've accessed the courtyard & were attempting to bust their way in. People would've got up PRIOR to Marlon and AJ's little scene.
Maybe. Possibly. I do have to point out that it wasn't storming when Clem wakes up. She goes out and it's cloudy and windy but there's no ra… morein or lightning or thunder to drown out her smashing the lock. There's no rain, thunder, or lightning until after Marlon kills Brody.
No, there's a scene in the beginning that is a dream sequence setup as a hallucinatory time-skip. Everyone can be seen from Michonne, an older baby Judith but only the back of Carl's head can be seen as he is walking out. Writers later confirmed it was a symbolic foreshadowing. I was only referencing it because it's the most recent one I can recall but it's not like the show is foreign to the idea of doing these things, so why not the game?
I truly think it makes for some outside the box story-telling when done right & if those last 20 minutes were hallucinatory, there's a lot they can do to spin it and make it work going forward. I really don't have my hopes up about it actually happening since it's Telltale after all, but it's an interesting concept to consider having play out.
I mean think about how they broke the internet with so many people thinking Marlon & Brody are actually dead but they pull this instead! For the most part, people wouldn't have saw it it coming much like the shock value death itself. Not saying they can't still be killed later, I recall a staff tweet saying to a certain extent that E2 is going to be a slaughter. Why not save Brody and Marlon for that?
As for the AJ/Marlon thing being a dream, I don't really care. I mean, a lot of people would be mad, feel like it was just a cheap shock ending that meant nothing, but if handled right it could be powerful. If it happened, fine. If it was a dream, fine.
No, there's a scene in the beginning that is a dream sequence setup as a hallucinatory time-skip. Everyone can be seen from Michonne, an old… moreer baby Judith but only the back of Carl's head can be seen as he is walking out. Writers later confirmed it was a symbolic foreshadowing. I was only referencing it because it's the most recent one I can recall but it's not like the show is foreign to the idea of doing these things, so why not the game?
I truly think it makes for some outside the box story-telling when done right & if those last 20 minutes were hallucinatory, there's a lot they can do to spin it and make it work going forward. I really don't have my hopes up about it actually happening since it's Telltale after all, but it's an interesting concept to consider having play out.
I mean think about how they broke the internet with so many people thinking Marlon & Brody are actually dead but they pull this instead! For the most p… [view original content]
Same here, I'm indifferent to it and will be on board regardless of what direction they take. It's still
kind of fun to speculate on theories like these, though!
Oh yeah, I forgot about that bit.
As for the AJ/Marlon thing being a dream, I don't really care. I mean, a lot of people would be mad, fe… moreel like it was just a cheap shock ending that meant nothing, but if handled right it could be powerful. If it happened, fine. If it was a dream, fine.
Same here, I'm indifferent to it and will be on board regardless of what direction they take. It's still
kind of fun to speculate on theories like these, though!
As for the Ep2 slaughter comment:
this would ruin the ending of the episode, having a dream sequence 20 minutes long too would totally confuse the player and seem like a cheap knock off that it was "just a dream", infact suffer the chidren's screen looks like the result of what happened in episode one, clem is feeling like shit because of what AJ did, and Aj is kinda just there not understanding what's going on. Let them go, Marlon and Brody are gone
this would ruin the ending of the episode, having a dream sequence 20 minutes long too would totally confuse the player and seem like a chea… morep knock off that it was "just a dream", infact suffer the chidren's screen looks like the result of what happened in episode one, clem is feeling like shit because of what AJ did, and Aj is kinda just there not understanding what's going on. Let them go, Marlon and Brody are gone
Holy moly those were really good points actually and they really all support each other and go in favor of your theory very well. Especially… more about AJ too, I mean it's unlikely that AJ shooting Marlon could be that legit, which is why I found the ending extremely surprising.
Comments
I guess it just happened so fast that they didn't have time to react before AJ took the shot. AJ picked up the gun, raised it and shot instantly.
Also, wasn't the dog barking continuosly? It was also on a leash and couldn't really do much.
I think that you might be on to something but the thing that doesn't make sense that it was highly detailed to be a dream
That would actually be a very interesting thought experiment if it was true. You go through a whole series of emotions over a long period, the ominous build up the final moments with Brody, the big reveal, Marlon losing it, the intense basement sequence, light dripping with blood, the confrontation in the thunder, a tonne of character development, especially for Brody and Marlon, AJ's final shot.
Have the players soak in the emotions and analyse this for a few months while they wait, and when the next episode goes around, it was all a dream? What will players ask themselves? Is Marlon still unstable? Why was Brody angry earlier? Do the bandits still exist? How will players treat the characters after this confusing dream? Will Clementine lash out at people? Will the player treat Marlon differently, experiencing this progression from trust to anger, and taking that away? Maybe Clementine will be paranoid, she might worry Marlon is abusive or threatening towards Brody, she might confuse the other kids. Will players take away AJ's gun? How will he react to this?
It makes the player question how much they should trust characters, and it would make for a fun experiment to see how peoples choices change.
Mmmmmm maybe that hit she took in the beginning of the episode did a number on clem.....this can be true lol we'll see.
Clemception
@Ashran makes a good point. If this does turn out to be a dream, think of how that gives the player a deeper insight into Clem's psyche. She has had a rough childhood and likely internalized a lot of what she witnessed despite being strong. What if it morphed into a form of PTSD and she is now projecting those bad experiences on the new group she is with?
This would reinforce why she avoids groups and even why AJ acts the way he does as Clem raised him to be mistrusting of others through her unconscious actions.
Kenny and Jane's death were just a dream too
What are you talking about...Kenny is alive
As interesting, albeit wasteful, as it would be - I don't believe the end of Episode One is a dream sequence.
As for the lighting being the same, I don't believe it's a production error or a story point. It'd be for game play purposes, as you can adjust your lighting. There's only so dark a game can go before it becomes unplayable in a point and click adventure.
The noise from the pipes anyone could have heard, but it depends on two factors: How heavy of a sleeper they are, and how well their hearing functions. Honestly, it could be argued either way of who has better hearing under the circumstances ( as Clem and AJ do fire a gun without hearing protection when they have bullets ), but also having lived as prey in a more open environment it would also be more fine tuned.
AJ does listen to Clem, but to a point. After already having discussed biting, AJ is still violent later toward Marlon elbowing him in the crotch. Yes, it's more of an instinct that he hasn't been able to shake yet, and this moment is a bit of disjointed as AJ lived among them ( as a terror ) while Clem recovered. He also didn't have his gun then, and holding them at gunpoint demanding her location might've been what happened if he'd had it when they were separated for too long earlier.
The Marlon and Brody fight does have indicators earlier in the Episode. Marlon is aggressive when challenged about the food situation. It's expressed that the school is for troubled youths. He's shown near his breaking point during certain dialogue choices in his office. Brody turning is because her brain didn't sustain enough damage before she dies. Walkers who die of brain trauma don't go down because they have a blunt force gash in their heads.
As for the AJ teleportation, that's more or less a toss up between continuity error and intentional. It could imply that everyone is hyper focused on the confrontation between Marlon waving a gun around and Clementine being a possible murderer. They don't notice his movements beneath their own transfixed gaze.
Or maybe in the RV with Lee. Duck freshly bitten. Haven't they already gone back to that a couple of times?!
I mean if this gets enough support then it might be episode 2 lol, of course every episode since then would be pushed back to make up for the new direction, but I'll accept it so Marlon can live
I mean they’re was foreshadowing of Marlons deal before Clem goes to sleep. I don’t think it’s a dream.
Also, before the ending scene, AJ does ask Clem if she trusts the Boarding School kids or not which could indicate of his mistrust.
I really hope so, but I highly doubt it.
But when you think about it, there are no major choices.
Look, you can find "proof" for almost anything if you stretch hard enough. At the end of the day, the final act of episode 1 being a dream would be a shitty ruse and all impact would be removed from the events. It's stupid, it's lazy, and it completely ruins the most interesting episode 1 ending we've had yet. I'm 90% sure Telltale knows what a shitty decision this would be and won't go that route.
I hope it's not a dream. I want Clem to be the leader, Marlon is a coward. I hope he's dead and remains dead.
Well if everything was a dream then you couldn't say Marlon is a coward. Before that last scene Marlon actually seemed pretty protective and nice. But yeah still Clem leading the group would be more badass, especially when Lilly shows up with her group. Then it's basically going to be Clem vs Lilly and not Marlon vs Lilly which isn't as exciting.
indeed they did
If Clem can have such long and detailed dreams, I want to have whatever she's having tbh.
It wouldn't be a ruse. It's actually rather ingenious of them to pull off if it's to occur like @Wiso2kinfinity & @MrGraffio suggest. That would actually raise their storytelling bar for me. The show has gotten away with hallucinations and dream sequences like this, I don't see why the game couldn't either.
I'm not saying they're going to go LiS1 with it and now Clem has this foresight ability now via lucid dreaming or something all because she didn't get proper medical treatment for her car injury, but
'stranger things' have happened and coincidentally, that's also their next IP, so yeah. I hope this was a dream sequence.
I mean it's likely, since there might be some kind of psychedelic trip in future episodes?
Maybe. Possibly. I do have to point out that it wasn't storming when Clem wakes up. She goes out and it's cloudy and windy but there's no rain or lightning or thunder to drown out her smashing the lock. There's no rain, thunder, or lightning until after Marlon kills Brody.
I mean is it possible that the hallucination of Marlon being shot in the head is the take on when Sam in Lord of the Flies tongue is swollen, and he's hallucinates that he's having a conversation with the impaled pig's head, the “Lord of the Flies.”?
Or the fact she overheard the conversation in the basement between Brody and Marlon. IDK, but like many have here already stated, others should've been awoken by their loud arguing or Clem's banging on the basement cellar padlock. I'm pretty sure it echoed just like their voices were echoing throughout the corridor. I don't care who you are, if you hear someone doing that, you're going to go check it out. For all they know, a herd of walkers could've accessed the courtyard & were attempting to bust their way in. People would've got up PRIOR to Marlon and AJ's little scene.
Wouldn't surprise me, but I feel like that would be a shit way to retcon the end of Episode 1.
Did you also feel like the beginning of S8E1 of The Walking Dead where old man Rick foreshadowed Carl's death was a shit way to kickoff the season?
How did he foreshadow Carl's death? I thought old man rick was just old man rick from the comics, war over, time passed.
No, there's a scene in the beginning that is a dream sequence setup as a hallucinatory time-skip. Everyone can be seen from Michonne, an older baby Judith but only the back of Carl's head can be seen as he is walking out. Writers later confirmed it was a symbolic foreshadowing. I was only referencing it because it's the most recent one I can recall but it's not like the show is foreign to the idea of doing these things, so why not the game?
I truly think it makes for some outside the box story-telling when done right & if those last 20 minutes were hallucinatory, there's a lot they can do to spin it and make it work going forward. I really don't have my hopes up about it actually happening since it's Telltale after all, but it's an interesting concept to consider having play out.
I mean think about how they broke the internet with so many people thinking Marlon & Brody are actually dead but they pull this instead! For the most part, people wouldn't have saw it it coming much like the shock value death itself. Not saying they can't still be killed later, I recall a staff tweet saying to a certain extent that E2 is going to be a slaughter. Why not save Brody and Marlon for that?
Oh yeah, I forgot about that bit.
As for the AJ/Marlon thing being a dream, I don't really care. I mean, a lot of people would be mad, feel like it was just a cheap shock ending that meant nothing, but if handled right it could be powerful. If it happened, fine. If it was a dream, fine.
Same here, I'm indifferent to it and will be on board regardless of what direction they take. It's still
kind of fun to speculate on theories like these, though!
As for the Ep2 slaughter comment:
I don't really keep up with the show anyway.
"a snack?" Is that slang for attractive?
SNACC. As in "Look Good Enough to Eat."
So... is that a yes? I'm old. Leave me alone lol.
At this point in the show (especially post S7), I can't blame you.
@patrickrc95 @Hillbilly_Dave last time I checked, the walkers were far more hungry than the entirety of Ericson's Boarding school.
this would ruin the ending of the episode, having a dream sequence 20 minutes long too would totally confuse the player and seem like a cheap knock off that it was "just a dream", infact suffer the chidren's screen looks like the result of what happened in episode one, clem is feeling like shit because of what AJ did, and Aj is kinda just there not understanding what's going on. Let them go, Marlon and Brody are gone
Okay. We understand and appreciate your perspective on this...but still, the overwhelming consensus here is like:
Take us back when they were alive, lol.
Why wouldn't it be legit ? AJ grew up distrusting anyone that wasn't Clem.
Why would you want to murder a child? You do remember he's six years old, right?