(SPOILER) How bad is Marlon really?
I've just watched this alternate dialogue of the last scene:
At the end Tenn forgives Marlon, and then Clementine even nods as if he's forgiven. Which is very different from ending like e.g. Clementine beating him up and telling him to leave forever.
So I guess the relationship between Marlon and others including Clem is determinant?
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I really don't think Marlon is that bad. Yes, he did do fucked up shit there's no doubt. But I've said it time and time again and will continue to say it, he was a kid. A teenager. Even in endings where Tenn doesn't forgive him etc. He still shows guilt and remorsefulness.
People want to forget that he is a teenager and kid, but the fact is that he was a kid. And not only that but assuming he and Clementine are around the same age, when this began he was around the same as a Clementine and so were the others in the school. Pretty young. The BIGGEST difference between Clem and Marlon is that Clementine had someone (Lee) to teach her, etc. From the beginning of the apocalypse. I think seeing how Lee dealt with situations, etc. Shaped how Clementine is now. She's pretty responsible and level headed. But Marlon said all the adults left in the very beginning leaving him as a little kid and the others to fend for themselves. He didn't have people to help him. He did what he thought he had to or did things out of fear without adults help. (I also think he had anger issues and they were being dealt with in the school but when everything went to shit well obvi they didn't have adults to help.)
In the end, he did bad shit, real bad shit. But was he as bad as people want to think? Honestly, I don't think so. He didn't know what to do, he was clearly scared and overwhelmed with what he was doing. He made bad decisions because he was scared and never learned any way to deal with the shit that was happening. He seems remorseful no matter what happens and it's just sad. He wasn't bad, he was a scared teenager who made the bad CHOICES.
Marlon was a piece of shit. He gave away two members of his group to raiders, lied to the group about it, killed the one person who knew and wanted to come clean, and then tried framing an innocent girl for it. Not to mention the fact that he was fully prepared to trade Clem and AJ when the raiders returned.
Marlon was irredeemable but he's getting a pass with some people just because he comes across as sympathetic and guilt-stricken. Fuck Marlon.
Yes he is just a teenager. Confused and thought he was doing the best for the group. He had a lot of pressure put on him.
He's just having a bad hair day...
Indeed you have a good point there, especially with the fact that Clem had Lee to teach her, but Marlon didn't really have anyone.
A real leader would have sacrificed themselves, just like Clem said.
Oh btw something I noticed scary about you.
You have a picture of a 6 year old killer and a username "Carver did nothing wrong"
why is that
A 6 year old hero you mean?
I'd say he's an affably antagonist if that makes sense. Friendly and pleasant, industrious and responsible. And also a disinclined sellout and murderer as well as a liar.
I don't actually buy that he did these things to protect his group, because that's not how you protect people around you. He really messed up at the end,what he did to Brody then Clementine and his previous "friends" he made wrong decisions; and he was responsible for them too.
When he wanted our mercy, I was making calculations about if he would come back for revenge or not ... then AJ shot him.
Hmm that's an interesting question: was Marlon bluffing at the end? i.e. had AJ not shot Marlon, do you think Marlon would quickly try to get the gun/push Clementine away, something like that?
Man i forgave him, but reading that second comment really changed my perspective a bit.
I remember when I was young and I tried to help but messed up and got people really upset. So in the moment when he started crying I kinda related to him and decided to forgive him.
But that second comment makes me realize that I would NEVER do anything like what Marlon did. I was the type of kid to actually fight back and tried my best to make everyone i liked happy.
After what has he done, if you set him away/or do anything else he'd probably come back for the revenge. It's really hard to trust someone who sold out his friends, who killed his best friend,who did his best to lock some girl to the basement and blamed her for the all mistakes he made.
I won't be Pollyanna and say, I forgive him to be honest. He messed up big time
How is shooting an unnarmed kid who clearly surrendered and was not a threat anymore considered being a hero ? Maybe if he shot him when threatening Clem or something, maybe if he would have shot Abel
He's just a murderer at the moment, not a hero by any stretch.
I wouldn't say Marlon is evil, per se, but I do believe that he didn't have his allies' interests in mind as much as he believed he did.
I'd be more inclined to believe that Marlon was someone who genuinely cared for his group, but was eventually consumed by the pressure and desperation of protecting everyone that he agreed to let raiders take two of his own...if it wasn't for the fact that he had committed murder to hide that truth from his group.
But he doesn't just stop at killing Brody, oh no. Marlon also locks a witness in with a corpse and hoped that Brody's corpse would reanimated and kill Clementine. And when that failed, Marlon tried to pin his crime on an innocent person, and will personally execute Clementine if she fails to prove her case, right in front of AJ.
If Marlon was meant to be a sympathetic character, it's not working for me.
I think he could probably be forgiven if only he didn't try to pin Brody's murder on Clem. I could understand his previous decisions, even if I don't agree with them, his hands were tied, it was either the death of the whole group, or 2 people. But as soon as he did that, it was over. No way in hell I'm gong to forgive him. Especially after seeing how easily he could have shot Clem if you picked the wrong answers.
Well, while selling those "2 people" he sold his honor and the whole group; he betrayed his friends, if this is the way how you save lives, then it's really not right thing to do. Let's say he didn't murder Brody and pin it on Clementine in that case, it still wouldn't be easy to forgive someone like this, he'd be still messed up.
And yeah, it's scary that how cold-bloodedly he kills Clementine in few scenarios.
I'm not saying he did the right thing, not at all, but I would be more open to forgiveness if that was the only thing he did, and he admitted that he felt bad. Let's say that I would have kept him as a prisoner, but the way he tried to frame Clem made me want to kick him out, even if I could see the regret in his eyes.
Marlon was concerned with Marlon, period. A real leader would have figured out another solution or have sacrificed himself. He was an utter coward who was on the path of becoming a human trafficker.
Lol
Marlon made a choice as a leader that right now was right for him.We had to make difficult decisions like Clem too.
Tell me and if you did. a group of armed bandits only you and 3 girls without guns would you rather die 2 or die 10? That's how he thought. Or would you have done it differently? Tell me?
I honestly don't believe it was a "Hunting trip gone wrong" If it would've been so, Marlon could've just told the group "We encountered some fuckfaces and they took Sophie and Minnie" instead of "They got killed by walkers"
Brody says "We have to tell the others about what YOU did" which implies that it was a pre-arrenged deal in which Brody had nothing to do with. She was just there witnessing it happen but stayed quiet about it. The deal was that Marlon gives these girls away so the raiders won't bother the group. Brody also says: "If those raiders come back...Marlon said he'll let them take you...to make them go away...like he did with Tenn's sisters" Which more or less confirms that it was a pre-arrenged deal and that there was more shady shit to it than "Hunting trip gone wrong"
Also I think it would've been rather risky for the raiders to let Marlon and Brody walk away after taking 2 of their people had they just encountered each other.
Marlon should've told the whole group about the raiders instead of betraying them by trading 2 group members to a fate worse than death and keeping it all a secret. That's already pretty fucking hard to forgive imo. Add killing Brody, trying to get Clem killed and pinning Brody's murder on her while trying to keep his secret as a secret to the pile and thats how we have a irredeemable scumbag. Also like some people already mentioned before that in some scenarios Marlon cold-bloodedly straight up shoots Clem in the face.
I also have to state the fact that I believe Marlon would've caused so much division in the group and possibly even try to get back at Clementine that it was probably for the best that he died.
THIS. Marlon isn't the one who is misunderstood. AJ is.
Marlon was a coward and a liar, and ultimately is definitely guilty of manslaughter, but no matter how you look at it the raiders are the real bad guys-- without them being depraved, evil assholes (probably heavily armed ones) who kidnap children, the Erikson Academy students could genuinely be living a decent life in the zombie apocalypse.
Yeah I knew how Marlon act would be determinate just by the dialogue options. But that doesn't excuse the fact he bash Brody in the head giving her a TBI and she died as a result, he gave children away to these raiders and didn't tell the others what happened, and he was plotting to do the same to Clem and Aj. IMO Marlon is an awful person, and at the very least he's a coward. he doesn't deserve forgiveness. Besides that I just really love seeing Clem backhand the shit out of him.
LOL!!
Eactly! You get a like from me!
The people who defend this guy are the same people who are calling AJ a little shit for killing Marlon. But Marlon did the exact same thing. He killed Brody.
I’m actually makes emotion about Marlon, yes he did some really messed up stuff but then again he didn’t have any guidance to help him to make the right choices.
I definitely think a lot of people are being too harsh on Marlon; he was scared, impulsive and paranoid. Yes, what he did was wrong, but I understand his reasoning and feel more bad for him than anything. When everyone confronts him about it you can see and hear him cracking, trying to save face. And to repeat some others, he was still just a kid like everyone else. The pressure of being a leader proved too much for him.
I've said everything I had to about my stance on Marlon already.
Marlon was wrong, but I wouldn't wanna be in his position. Cause, personally, I don't think I would be able to do anything better. That's how I'm basing my defense of him. Would I be able to make a better decision? If I can't see myself making a better decision, then I have no right to criticize his decision to sacrifice the sisters, as tragic as it was.
I likely would've come to the same conclusion as Marlon. The only difference is I probably would've come clean to the kids. That's the only thing I can criticize is his dishonesty and loss of control.
AJ was also wrong, but he's not a little shit nor is he Carver's child or all that other shit. He just doesn't have the proper discipline required when faced with living people and he needs it now.
I agree.
B-b-b-b-Bad!
Good to see that lowkey "shoutout" I did wasn't fruitless for once, I guess.
Was it? My understanding was that it was a spur of the moment thing that may have been influenced by previous interruptions, but for the most part, was a deal done on the spot.
Yes those are good points. You also didn't mention that he lied that Clem killed Brody, and wanted to kill her because of that, which does happen if you don't choose right dialogue options.
The situation with Marlon is very complicated. Although he is a leader, he’s still a teenager. Teenagers (usually) suck at making decisions. Especially in stressful situations. I get it, he was scared. However, he still killed Brody. Not only that, he tried indirectly killing Clementine as well. When she made it out alive, he falsely accused her of killing Brody. And of course, him admitting to Brody that he’d give Clementine and AJ to the raiders if they came back. He was not fit to be a leader from the start. And it isn’t his fault, that’s a lot of pressure for a teen. Only thing I can’t get over is him lying, willing to give Clementine and AJ away, and killing Brody. I wish we got a bit more context on the situation though. Why didn’t the raiders just take Marlon and Brody as well? Couldn’t a group (I’m assuming) just overpower four teens? Was there some sort of trade going on? I guess we’ll find out in Suffer the Children.
For me he starts crossing the line a bit when he locks clem in the basement and blame her for everything, no matter how much hes panicking that takes a ruthless and cold approach
As for trading the other two and killing brody and think its understandable especially without knowing everything
You know, the problem Marlon has faced is somewhat similar to a trolley dilemma.
He either fight the bandits but potentially endangers all of the group as they have little to no gun power or let them take two people and they will leave them alone. Yes, he should consult with the group first, but again he may afraid that they agree to confront them and potentially destroy all he helped to build so he made it a secret together with Brody for what he thinks better for the group.
Let's just wait for the next episode to know the circumstances of why he did what he did before we discuss it further.
Bruh...
First off i ant defendin marlon's ass for whar he did but
its a lil different dont u think when Marlon killed brody by accident during an argument and immediately regretted it and started crying like a little bitch
and aj shootin an unarmed man,not during a fuckin fight or confrontation but 97 years after he stopped?
He killed her because she knew, and AJ killed him because: He traded the sisters with the raiders, he would do the same with Clementine and AJ, he locked her up in the basement where she could have died, he blamed Clementine for the dead of Brody, he can kill Clementine if you pick the wrong dialogue option. Yea uhm, Marlon is definitely more on the wrong here. I’m not saying what AJ did is right, but its atleast more understandable then straight up killing a girl because she new about your secrets.
Bruh,hes a teenager
teenagers are retarded,right?
its obvious he didnt plan on killin her and he immediately regretted it
Wrong? yeah
Pussy? yeah
Coward? hell yeah
Evil? not really
Had he waited untill everything was over and then just killed Brody like aj did with him it would b more "understandable"
its more understandable that marlon killed brody than when aj killed marlon,since ajs shit seems kinda premeditated to me,watch that scene,it takes like 75 years for aj to shoot marlon after he surrendered
Actually heres an example
i kill a friend during an argument by accident
i shoot a random unarmed criminal because "he was bad"
which one is more wrong?