The story is tailored by how you play
I know there are aldeady been threads about this, but I wanted to complain.
I'm so dissapointed in Telltale, I know this is just the first episode but when you come back from a game like Detroit Become Human your expectations are so much higher. They should just stop saying "the game is tailored by how you play" because that's not true, there are just small choices that have small consequences but the story stays the same.
And it's a big Telltale games fan talking here.
I have faith in Telltale, but I wouldn't mind waiting for like 2 years for a game that is really good or with lots of choices, I mean did they see the sells on Detroit ? They can take their time developping and then make a really impactful game with choices who matter. Telltale could be known as "the studio who makes story driven games where your choices matter" instead they are known as "story driven games where the illusion of choice is really good"
I liked what they did with Batman the enemy within last episode but that should be like that for every episode.
People are gonna say "this is so hard you have no idea" yeah well then don't make your company gimmick about how you shape the story. I wouldn't mind the waiting, hell it can take 5 years but make a choose your story game for real.
Like I said I was a big telltale fan who used to just don't care about this because their story were good, but lately it hasn't been as good and I certainly hope twd final season will be good, and that they master TWAU season 2 because it's their best selling game so they better not screw it up.
Comments
Honestly Detroit is overrated af. The writing and dialogue in that game aren’t nearly as good as the classic telltale games (TWD, TWAU, TFTB) and Detroit costs 3x more then TFS (Detroit 60$ compared to TFS 20$). I honestly enjoyed the first episode of TFS more then anything Detroit had to offer. TFS isn’t even done yet so we can’t even really judge decisions until we see their consequences.
The wording is very specific. What does a tailor do? They give you a suit except the change the measurements slightly to fit only you. That's what Telltale does. They don't change their game or the story. The just slightly alter the path to get there for you.
How are people still whining about this anyway? Season One doesn't do anything different than every game after it. All it does is give you the illusion that things changed. They don't. Yet it's untouchable to criticism.
You cannot compare Detroit, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls etc. To a Telltale game. Telltale have series. They have 4 TWD games. It's easy to have branching stories and endings when it's a one and done game. Like the Quantic Dream games. You can do anything you like making them because the devs don't then have to make a 2nd game in the series honouring all the different choices. Telltale DOES have to do that. Can you imagine how ridiculously hard and resourse consuming that would be for them to change the story at every choice and turn? It's pretty impossible.
The thing is: Quantic Dream can afford it to do it, because they work exclusively for Sony. Their games probably have five or six times the budget Telltale has.
You also need to keep in mind, that everything David Cage has written is everything but cohesive. I'd rather have one story with slight variation that can stand on its own and tells a really good story, than a story that only works because the concept of varying storylines merely exists. You can't tell a good and cohesive story, if the player has too much control over it.
Detroit did set a new standard of how actions can have consequences, but the story itself is still the same David Cage pulp, just like Beyond and Heavy Rain.
So, yeah. I'd rather have the one Tales from the Borderlands or The Wolf Among Us that we got, than any of the thousand Detroit variations.
"Hello, my name is Connor, I'm the android sent by cyberlife"
Why do people hate David Cage so much ? Jesus Heavy rain and Detroit are the best games i've ever played why do people spit on Quantic dreams so much ? I feel like some people don't even try to get their own opinion and badmouth David Cage for no reason.
Anything is possible with time, I agree that Quantic Dream has more budget than telltale games, but still then it just takes more time, also it's not the same quality, they can do it with their engine it doens't matter if it's not as appealing as Detroit for exemple. I keep and will keep buying telltale games because I support their studio and have faith in them, but the thing is they are going to get overshadowed by other more successful company if they don't step up their game.
But you know what I forgive Telltale as long as they give me a very good story, just like Tales from the Borderlands which I just fricking adored it's like my favorite. I'm just very anxious for Twd and hoping they don't fuck up their season because to be honest, episode 1 isn't really promising FOR ME, And I also feel like i'm not gonna like Alvin Junior because jesus christ that ending was horrible (again for me) I don't particularly care that Marlon is dead, but I care that Alvin just killed him for the sake of scenario,it doesn't even make sense, i'm pretty sure Clementine would have taught him to be nice, at least MY clementine.
"They just need more time"
Time is money. Always has been.
The reason why a lot of people don't like David Cage is because his writing is very ... off. He's terrible at writing characters, that feel or act like human beings. His storys are structured poorly - helly, Beyond - and his games feel like they have an interesting premise, but the execution is just shallow. Be it that terrible twist in Heavy Rain or the entirety of Beyond. He tries to take on some serious subjects, but his games are too cowardly written to the point where some of these subjects end up as mere plotdevices.
Detroit is regarded as his best game, which - funny enough - is his first game where you don't play as a human.
The thing is, if they made a one solid hit, they would have enough money to make their own solid games, they are choosing the safe way which is making a lot of games so they get money to continue, but it doesn't work out all that well since they have financial problems.
I feel like people who criticize quantic dream have never actually played a quantic dream game, except Fahrenheit where the ending get all bonkers, their games have been very good, there has been some hating on david cage because he is pretentious, and then the hating community started nitpicking on everything in his games, but i'm sorry if you played Heavy rain, with absolutely no spoilers and no influencing from people, you would love it (maybe not everyone but most people) it's a very emotional game and I've never felt something quite like that when playing a game. Sure there are some things that doesn't make sense, just like in any games, if we start nitpicking on telltale games then a lot of things don't make sense either, but the hating on David Cage is like a trend amongst some gamers and some don't even try to get their own opinion on his games and just blindly hate like sheeps.
Srx if you hate David cage then do, but there is a whole studio working on the game, and obviously a shit ton of people love their games, so we are all stupid people ? No maybe we just like to get involved in the story and try not to nitpick at everything, because of course you are gonna find some flaws, It's a fictional world, it didn't and probably won't happen so of course some things are not gonna make sense, just like In tales from the borderlands, twd, twau. When you start thinking about it you are like "but why didn't they do this, instead of that" "this doesn't make any sense why do.." srx people need to stop.
I love telltale game and the critic I made today is because I'm afraid for them, because if there are more people like me out there and I know they are, then they are dissapointed, now i'm waiting on the next episodes before shitting on it, but I'm really hoping it will be good.
I want to agree with you, but most people when they are new to telltale and see that, think exactly that their choices will change the story. Now yes Telltale can pull that card, but then It makes me think of like frauds who manipulate their clients and when they are not happy they just play with words and are like " you see we didn't exactly say that.."
I agree we should wait for the end of the season, but Detroit was a really good game and with many branches, I feel like it was totaly worth my money compared to some triple a games like Call of duty or whatever.
haha I do not know what you think of this comment @Demonarke you want to compare Detroit with TWD? are completely different games, both gameplay and plot ...
Not different gameplays, one is exclusively on PS4 though, plots they are non similar, but very similar in genre, if not same.
Telltale has always made it clear the story walks as we play and make the choices, stealing a purse with supplies in the front will give consequences. Can you give me an example of a choice that made no impact on the 4 TWD?
Holy hell, so many ! i'm not gonna count them all just inform yourself, or replay the games I'm not gonna cite them all.
in the third season yeah but in the first and the second season especially the TFS they matter a lot
Well the game is "tailored" to how you play. The story does modify because of your choices. TT never has said: "Your choices will change the out come of the entire story." There's a reason they used the word "tailored" and not the word "change." As I see it, they've kept their word.
Actually it's a play on words, because tailor seems really detailled to me, a tailor is someone who makes a suit according to you precisely, so in that sense, "the story is tailored by how you play" would mean that the story is made by you with all the details and such.
I love telltale too but clearly we all know what they meant, "your choices have consequences" what they don't tell you is "although most of what you do doesn't matter and when it does we just try to go back to the way we intended the game" so no It's not tailored by you but by Telltale, the game doesn't suit you but telltale itself.
Um... tailor has more than one definition, not just someone who makes suits lol! Here's another definition: to fashion or adapt to a particular taste, purpose, need, etc. A direct synonym for "tailor" is "modify" which is: to make partial or minor changes to (something), typically so as to improve it or to make it less extreme. So I still think TT has kept their word.
The ONLY good things about Detroid are the soundtrack, branching and Connor.
Markus was pretty good too, although I admit Connor was the best character.
I feel like Kara could have been a DLC she had no impact to the actual storyline.
Now that's the fanboy speaking, it just feels like misleading to me because I'm pretty sure that when you first played a telltale game you thought exactly what everyone thought "cool so my choices will shape the story"
In any case, whatever, illusion of choices I can somehow manage but make the story GOOD, It's been a while since a good teltale story, to me it was Tales From the Borderlands Walking dead season 1 and TWAU.
for now the first episode of the last season of TWD isn't really promising, I certainly hope I'm wrong I would love nothing more than that but anyway.
This is me complaining and being afraid for the company as you guys are fans of telltale just like me, but know that there needs to be new fans and a lot more sales if we want our favorite company to work and keep producing good games.
This discussion can end with a simple argument. Quantic Dream has more budget then Telltale. I think comparing telltale games with LIS is a better idea.
Markus felt a bit to forced sometimes with his whole Androids have also rights message. I really liked Connor and his interactions with Hank. And how he can slowly turn into a Deviant
I really disagree that a story cannot be good & cohesive if the player has too much control over it. But in addition, we don't need a lot of control, just a fair amount. TellTale has a habit of narrowing paths. "You decide to save Sarah? Oh well, she's dead anyway - same episode, too!" Writing like that in games like these make the tailor statement seem like a lie; which is why so many people say "Choices don't matter!" Like the endings of season 2 resulting all in the same path through weak writing (which many predicted); I say weak writing because Jane shouldn't have committed suicide, and Kenny shouldn't have been mauled after getting paralyzed from a car accident in the apocalypse. I get it, it takes hard work to follow through with branching storylines, but it's possible. You don't need a huge budget to find a group of passionate & talented writers. A group that would work together to craft a story that's like a spider-web of paths. I don't think TellTale should be scolded so often, but I don't think they should have excuses like that either. The frustration is that it's clearly possible for them to do more elaborate branching, or better writing in general for their games but for whatever reason nothing changes.
Fanboy, what are you talking about lol. I'm actually one of the few in this thread who liked detroit become human, heavy rain, and fahrenheit. Beyond two souls, not so much. Also I didn't come in to TT thinking choices will matter. I'm an avid Mass Effect trilogy fan, a game where choice is suppose to matter as well. I played ME before I had any idea who TT was. My point is, if a developer like Bioware couldn't make choice matter in their games. To the point where a huge amount of story change. Why would I believe a smaller studio like TT could pull it off? I just understand definitions of words. The fact is TT used the word "tailored" for a reason.
Don't be offended by fanboy, I didn't mean it as a bad thing because I think I'm a fanboy
I also LOVED Mass effect, but the difference is that the gameplay in mass effect was good, it was not a point and click like telltale games, the whole compromise was "qte game but we sacrifice gameplay for fricking good story" Mass effect had good story, pretty good gameplay and choices, well they still mattered more than most telltale games.
I think it's not a sound argument, because their engine is already made, and yes time is money, but if they took the time to make one really good game every 4 years, polished and with lots of branches then I'm pretty sure the money would be worth the wait. Because a lot more people would be attracted to Telltale Games.
Also it's another thing but I'm not too fan on the episodic genre, and now it's actually a question to you guys.
How is it done do they like create one episode every month ? or is it already made and they are just waiting. Because if they create it every month it's even less acceptable because they don't take a lot of time for the game. I would be more satisfied with one entire game with no episodes even if it took more time, at least they wouldn't be rushed to create the next episode of their game.
Yes that was also my favorite part of the game, Connor deviancy and his relationship with Hank.
Markus I enjoyed too because I put myself in his shoes and really wanted to be as peaceful as possible and make the most of my decisions (who actually has an impact on the story). I wasn't involved in Kara I felt it was too generic, and not that interesting. (Although I do have a problem playing a woman in video games, not cause i'm sexist but because I usually identify myself with the protagonist and it's hard to when the protagonist is a woman.)
Yes, you do. You don't only need writers for that to work. You also need all the people who actually design, model and develope all that.
If they do an episode the optimal way, they'd basically need to develope like three or four different episodes for the price of one and that won't happen unless something else gets cut down, like length. And with each new episode, the different choices snowballs to a gigantic maze, increasing workload and ressources even more. It also takes more time to write this, as you have to consider every piece of dialogue and every choice. That tripples the amount of time needed to develope a working script.
That's why the episodes, that have varying storylines, often end up much shorter, than episodes that feature none or only small changes.
They don't work on only one episode per month. Episode 2 and 3, and maybe 4 is already in development. But why not compare telltale with Life is Strange? I think thats more fair.
Because life is strange choices also don't matter, I feel like the problem is that Telltale are trying to do too many things at once, and now they are in a financial jam, now i'm not working in the company so I don't know what the f is going on and who am I to know what's actually going on. I'm only supposing and there are many things at stake that I'm probably not aware, but those flaws are real and even though they can't really change that now, I feel like episodic games are really bad, because it's quantity over quality. It's be better to have one good polished game rather than five or 4 episodes where you have a deadline to respect and are of course gonna have to make sacrifices.
And to be fair, I only kinda liked the first Life is strange because of the powers, but looking back on it wasn't all that amazing (to me again) I didn't really like Chloe as much as other people did because I'm not into that anarchist kind of character.
That has been true, though. Telltale worked on like 4 or 5 games at the same time and it showed. But recently, since the new CEO took over and fired like 25% of the staff, which might be even more by now, the Quality has gone up again, with Batman: Season 2 & TWD: Season 4 being the first games developed under the new management.
Telltale has been in financial problems for a while now and they probably still are. The deal they made, thanks to the new CEO, again, with Netflix basically saved them as far as i know. Telltale obviously aims to develope fewer, but overall better games and it showed. This year, we're only getting TWD and MAYBE the premiere of Stranger Things. Next year will be all about Stranger Things and probably some The Wolf Among Us S2.
Oh hell yeah I'm going to be offended by the word fanboy. Because fanboys will defend a product, even though it has blatant flaws. They are mindless drones. I'm not someone who does that. Also TT being a point and click game furthers the point that their games shouldn't have been perceived as a huge choice based game. They have a small developer team. So implementing huge changes in story, based on player choices, would have taken more time and money. Which TT just don't have. And ofcourse ME choices mattered more, bioware is a bigger studio and have more money for their games. My point in bringing up bioware was, that because playing their games I came into TT games not expecting huge choice consequences. Because Bioware could barely do it themself and they're a much bigger studio than TT. So of course I knew TT games wouldn't have huge plot changes because of player choice. Because they're a smaller studio.
You came into TT games thinking the story would change based on your choices, and that's your fault. I don't think they should change their formula because it's been the most successful for them. They have never said: your choices will change the story as you play. Like I said, there's a reason they used the word tailored.
Then why not cut the episodic game ? And not having a deadline ? I'm not at telltale but like I wouldn't mind if they changed that. Doesn't matter if it takes longer to create, in the end it would be more profitable.
Well then I'm going to say something else
It's actually
"the game stories adapts to the choices you make
the story is tailored by how you make"
Now you have no excuse, everybody playing their games will go into the premise that their choices have consequences. There is absolutely no excuse for that, it's their gimmick on every single one of their game.
My fault for forgetting that bit though.
And if you think it's the "more succesful for them" then clearly you haven't been paying attention to the company well-being.
I hope so because Telltale is probably one of my top favorite game companies. I just see (I know only one episode) that their gimmick still isn't true. But it's okayish by me if the story more than makes up for it, it's just that Telltale isn't known for it's gameplay so you know, you better make a damn good story since that's all you are betting on.
I care more about Telltale making me care about choices than the consequences that come with them tbh, if you don't feel your choices matter, you're not compelled to think or try to save characters when you believe they'll die anyway, since Guardians of the Galaxy and a bit during Game if Thrones, Telltale made me care about my choices again after games like TWD Season 2 and ANF made me more careless in decision making because I could easily see my choices lacking in effect.
It wouldn't make much of a difference. They'd still have a deadline. Several, even. I'd also doubt that it would be more profitable, because if it takes longer, the budget increases with that and i also doubt that the sales increases accordingly.
@Demonarke There is an excuse, and I would implore you to look up the definition of adapt and also find its synonyms. Both adapt and tailor share the synonym modify. Adapt =/= change. Nor does tailor. Welcome to the english language.
Then why didn't they sign up for like another game with the help of a more succesful company ? Like remake a Tales from the borderlands. It's actually a legitimate question of mine because I don't know enough to actually say with absolute certainty what's the problem.
And my vision of things was, say that you are gonna make a game around 2022, ok it's a long time but plenty to develop a game, sure there is still a deadline but they have more time and don't have to rush episodes. Make one good impactful game, make a good enough profit and try to sign up and make games with wealthy enough studios so as to not be in debt when creating a game and make a large profit when the game do come out.
Omg can you stop blindly defending this please, and you are also being agressive. They are CLEARLY telling you that your choices have consequences. I'm not blindly attacking telltale, stop bracing yourself and try to actually see my point of view, clearly this was telltale premise and no amount of word play or english dictionnaries will prove me wrong. Because there are choices in the game, the gameplay is qte, all of your actions in the game are choices, so when in the beginning they say "the game stories adapts to the choices you make
the story is tailored by how you make" they clearly mean that the story will adapt to the choices you take. Also they keep putting things like "Carley will remember that" or things that makes you think your choices matter. Stop defending blindly you know exactly what telltale means by that.