As I've explained you're wrongly using the word attached here,
You've explained me wrongly using the word attached where? So far as I've seen this is the first usage of that word. You want Clem to live and if she died you'd have a big problem with that.. no? This surely sounds like the definition of attached. The same way if the family dog dies by car accident.
If the main character died every season it would be ridiculous,
Good thing they have not been dying every season aside from the first. About due for another. Folks have panicked every year about Clem dying. It's only predictable because they anxiously dread and anticipate it happening only because it's happened to Lee. No one can know for sure if she'll live or not so perhaps it's not predictable just because it's possible.
And Clementine has a continuous story,
Come the finale this will be "HAD" a continuous story. Therefore death is far more feasible than ever before to occur to the main character.
As for speculating on people coming back, you're wrong
Personal opinion than statistical fact there.
People still try to speculate that Lee will come back even though we know he's dead.
Which proves my point even further with a popular/beloved character Like Clem being still alive versus dead like Lee. Only this time speculation would have way more validity to it because it's possible a living character can be summoned back and not a dead character. Discussions would go on forever over a character TTG wishes no longer to write about. Atleast the Lee lives conspiracy theories are often abruptly dismissed as silly trolls.
And you're acting as if people put this stuff ahead of their real personal life. They generally don't, and I don't know why you insist on inserting that speculation.
To insist something I'd atleast have to bring it up a few times. I think I've only implied that in a single message.
What you're saying makes no sense.
Perhaps this is yet another personal opinion.
Your train of thought leads to the ridiculous idea that every writer has to kill off their characters so no one will speculate if they will return.
I don't recall saying EVERY writer only this universe because it fits the atmosphere. Picnics on the beach type endings don't suit the mood of that world. Fighting a endless herd of walkers with the backs of the characters to the ocean while on the beach facing a obviously hopeless situation is walking dead ending it inspires fear of what the world has become and it's main threat. Now hunger games, superheroes, Harry Potter or game of thrones, and Disney shows don't have the same horror atmosphere and are permitted to end on more mellow laid back notes.
People will be less inclined to replay the game if it has a bad ending. Bad endings ruin replay value even if the content is good.
IF can go the opposite direction too. If the game has a good written ending it will have high replay value. Just because a great main character dies at the end doesn't automatically make it a bad ending. (Spoiler Alert) ? Refer to season one for examples game was masterfully written and the protagonist gets a sad ending.
So ten years from now if we're lucky we'll be able to replay a Walking Dead where the final season has Clementine survive.
Ten years from now or even five years from now if we're lucky ? we would not have to be subjected to goosebumps from all cringeworthy fan fictions and speculation to a stories future that will never be officially confirmed by developers.
So your "dead" endings are false. An end of series with the main character alive offers closure. As I said, we know it's an end of series.
An ending where Clem is alive would be best for the series and the community.
ALL also said as personal opinion or from individual perspective and not a general fact.
If you want Clem to unrealistically beat all odds for a fourth time and survive in spite of like 25 other folks somehow dying around her of which most are just as if not more strong and smart then that's fine. But in my point of view that is an individual perspective. It feels flat like soda without bubbles and already done more than twice. I'll never know what becomes of Clem forever if they have her walk or sit in the forest ? never to return again. While I just get ideas that can't be proven about what happens next since it's not official from the pro writers and just hopeful pipedreams of the writing amateurs which is, mostly unsatisfactory.
As I've explained you're wrongly using the word attached here, and my liking Clementine isn't the sole reason for this thread.
And Clemen… moretine has a continuous story, Lee didn't. If the main character died every season it would be ridiculous, therefor it's not Cliché to have her live if it's the end of her continuous series.
As for speculating on people coming back, you're wrong. People still try to speculate that Lee will come back even though we know he's dead. It happens no matter what. And you're acting as if people put this stuff ahead of their real personal life. They generally don't, and I don't know why you insist on inserting that speculation.
And it's not a dead ending either. End of series is end of series. We know it's the end of the series. What you're saying makes no sense. Your train of thought leads to the ridiculous idea that every writer has to kill off their characters so no one will speculate if they will return.
… [view original content]
Very well written! I couldn’t agree more. I believe her death will be determinate, but you are absolutely right: the world isn’t going to get better; that’s evident. It’s about the time you spend with the living that matters, not how your story ends.
I think it would be more cliched to keep her alive. This is coming from someone who loves how strong Clem's become over the seasons.
I th… moreink that TWD universe - or heck, any stories involving zombies - have a sort of nihilism to them, and it makes sense that the conclusion would be bittersweet, with emphasis on the bitter part. While I was pleasantly surprised by ANF's happy ending, TWD universe is not a happy place. Being alive is almost a metaphor for purgatory. You walk among the dead and you suffer losses and the cycle keeps repeating. Frankly speaking, the happy ending of ANF was a disservice to TWD's theme.
Again, don't get me wrong - I love, love Clementine - but I subscribe to the school of storytelling that you should make your characters suffer, no matter how much you like them, in order to show the true character (or nature) within them. As Kurt Vonnegut said, "Be a sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading charac… [view original content]
Walking in doors will produce a identical effect. Tomato ? Tomotto..Just like the Howes ending from season two where they could have made a sweet home ? of that. Walking inside Wellington etc.. Just about any living finale where she defeats the enemies and moves on has been done.
I decided to copy and paste a comment I made in a similar discussion. It is a bit of a long read so prepare yourselves:
In my opinion I don… more't think Clementine will die. I don't have any proof as to why she won't die but the reasons behind my view is this:
Clementine is the company mascot for Telltale Games, just like Mario is for Nintendo and Sonic to SEGA. The Company Mascot is pretty much the reason behind said Company's success and status in the Industry. For Telltale to go and kill their Company Mascot who they pretty much owe their success to (No offense Telltale Staff) would be disrespectful to the franchise and disrespectful to Clementine herself (Or so I think). The Walking Dead Season One was the beginning of a new Era for Telltale, it opened the door to many more games which received critical acclaim using the same formula as The Walking Dead Season One (The Wolf Among Us, Tales From The Borderlands and The Walking Dead Season Two… [view original content]
Sam and Max? But Sam and Max did not propel them to where they are today. It definitely played it's part and lead to them establishing themselves but Walking Dead is what truly put them on the map and showed the Gaming Industry what Telltale are capable of.
If they felt the same as you say then why would they allow the next installments go down the drain? Every season has been sort of disrespect to the classic original and their "mascot" until now. I think these are just excuses to not kill Clem. Rick is the main comic character and the creator has been out as saying even he is not safe and can die. If Rick and Carl can die then how can Clem not and she's in the exact same comic universe as they are?
Sam and Max? But Sam and Max did not propel them to where they are today. It definitely played it's part and lead to them establishing thems… moreelves but Walking Dead is what truly put them on the map and showed the Gaming Industry what Telltale are capable of.
Dude you deserve a ? trophy for that response.
Only thing I took issue with is this..
Again, don't get me wrong - I love, love Clementine
I don't think you should have to explain that you love the character repeatedly so as to avoid stepping on toes or backlash from opposing sides. It's what you feel.
I think it would be more cliched to keep her alive. This is coming from someone who loves how strong Clem's become over the seasons.
I th… moreink that TWD universe - or heck, any stories involving zombies - have a sort of nihilism to them, and it makes sense that the conclusion would be bittersweet, with emphasis on the bitter part. While I was pleasantly surprised by ANF's happy ending, TWD universe is not a happy place. Being alive is almost a metaphor for purgatory. You walk among the dead and you suffer losses and the cycle keeps repeating. Frankly speaking, the happy ending of ANF was a disservice to TWD's theme.
Again, don't get me wrong - I love, love Clementine - but I subscribe to the school of storytelling that you should make your characters suffer, no matter how much you like them, in order to show the true character (or nature) within them. As Kurt Vonnegut said, "Be a sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading charac… [view original content]
I explained the attached part in another thread made on account of this one from someone else. I will quote myself from there.
"Considering two people are presuming I'm "Attached" to a character I didn't even make besides what Telltale lets you make of her, I wouldn't give much warrant to that claim.
While people can become attached to moldable characters, it's rare. If you want to see people attached to characters look to the source. It's well known that Authors, Developers, etc. sometimes even resonate with their characters. I like Clem as a character, a lot. She's one of my favorites. Attached? Maybe a little due to her being a moldable and very likeable character. Other than that claiming I'm attached has no affect on my points as they are not based mainly on me liking the character. They're based on what's good for the series and community besides the other things I covered. If you're not "attached" why would you claim you have the feeling of sadness when a character you're supposedly not "attached" to dies?"
Moving on: Your claims of Psychological "Unhealthiness" are BS. Some people are more firm about their engrossment in a fictional universe. I am not. That doesn't mean they are "Psychologically Unhealthy" unless it affects their lifestyle. The stories are engrossing, but not to the point that it affects my lifestyle. We know she's a fictional character and we know she's not real, so stop over exaggerating please. This is a discussion about storytelling and other factors such as what is good for Telltale itself.
"Letting her live has been seen time and time again" Wrong, as it was stapled from season 2 that Clementine's story would be continuous. Letting her live is up to the final season, we knew she was going to live up to this point.
You may say a horrible badly written ending fits this universe, but I don't think so. Considering they've succeeded so far in making good endings I'm almost sure they'll keep Clementine alive at this point thankfully. Otherwise yes, even though multiple people have fallaciously argued the point, Clementine dying would be a cliché ending due to it copying Season 1. And it would. That's partially why it would be horribly written.
It's not personal opinion that people won't speculate on Clem coming back if she survives as I explained. We know this is the final Season, and probably Telltale's last TWD title. I'm pretty sure they said she's not appearing again. So speculating on a return would make no sense. I don't know why you are so bothered about this in the first place.
And yes it does seem like your train of thought leads to the idea that a writer has to kill off their main character in order for their fans not to speculate. This does make no sense, as the end of the story is the end of the story, as is especially true in the case of the Final Season.
As for "cringeworthy fanfictions" you seem to be bothered a lot by what other fans do. While I don't enjoy fanfictions, some people do, and that's their taste. They're going to happen either way also, so I don't know what you're on about.
Your claim that all is opinion is also false.
The end of the television series is coming soon. Therefor the ending is even more mysterious on both parts. Look how long Rick survived. If you think people just CAN'T survive in horrible odds realistically, oh how wrong you are. It's happened time and time again in history and it's not unrealistic. Just because Clem survives does NOT mean there will be loose ends. I don't know why you insist on this speculation. Many survival stories end with the main character surviving, and there are not loose ends.
Like another person said, it seems as if many of the walkers are rotting to death, Jaws falling off, etc.
Considering it's nearing the end of both the games and the television series, we will most likely get a conclusive good ending from both.
"As an Author, I can tell you that modern reasoning such as that of Kurt Vonnegut does not hold true. That's why only one of his works are very widely known (Breakfast of Champions). Take the Lord of the Rings as an example. It's one of the most popular stories in human history, yet characters rarely die in it. It would be a horrible ending to have Clementine die, and definitely be cliché, as we could all see it coming. Suffering is one thing in storytelling, death is another."
An ending where Clementine died would be bad for the community, bad for Marketing, bad for Telltale, bad storytelling, and all around bad. It's just the truth.
As I've explained you're wrongly using the word attached here,
You've explained me wrongly using the word attached where? So far as … moreI've seen this is the first usage of that word. You want Clem to live and if she died you'd have a big problem with that.. no? This surely sounds like the definition of attached. The same way if the family dog dies by car accident.
If the main character died every season it would be ridiculous,
Good thing they have not been dying every season aside from the first. About due for another. Folks have panicked every year about Clem dying. It's only predictable because they anxiously dread and anticipate it happening only because it's happened to Lee. No one can know for sure if she'll live or not so perhaps it's not predictable just because it's possible.
And Clementine has a continuous story,
Come the finale this will be "HAD" a continuous story. Therefore death is far more feasib… [view original content]
I don't understand your point here. Rick and Carl can die. Rick hasn't yet. So what? The main point of this thread is to relay why it would be a bad ending for Clementine to die.
If they felt the same as you say then why would they allow the next installments go down the drain? Every season has been sort of disrespect… more to the classic original and their "mascot" until now. I think these are just excuses to not kill Clem. Rick is the main comic character and the creator has been out as saying even he is not safe and can die. If Rick and Carl can die then how can Clem not and she's in the exact same comic universe as they are?
The response was actually flawed as I pointed out. It's not more clichéd to keep her alive, it's more clichéd to kill her off by using the same storyline as the first Season, which I'm quite sure they would do if they decided to kill her off.
Hands down the best ending would be for Clementine to live. It could and most likely would offer closure, and it would definitely make a lot of fans happy.
Dude you deserve a ? trophy for that response.
Only thing I took issue with is this..
Again, don't get me wrong - I love, love Clemen… moretine
I don't think you should have to explain that you love the character repeatedly so as to avoid stepping on toes or backlash from opposing sides. It's what you feel.
Actually, no, it's not. The truth can be painful. I know somewhat about marketing especially in the realm of gaming. I love Telltale games, but bad writing on their part by killing off Clementine would turn me and many others off completely. It would show that they're capable of bad writing in any of their titles especially in sensitive places. As I said before this happened with Mass Effect 3 and it definitely, oh most definitely had an affect on Bioware and EA as a whole.
I explained the attached part in another thread made on account of this one from someone else. I will quote myself from there.
"Considering two people are presuming I'm "Attached" to a character I didn't even make besides what Telltale lets you make of her, I wouldn't give much warrant to that claim.
Well there is your problem right there if the following is the case.. Are you saying you took what another user said that was similar to what I said and claiming I've said it repeatedly? If so how could I possibly know your taking words from another user and adding them to what I've said and claiming I keep saying the same thing to you repeatedly just because we both have said something similar to you separately . Just because another user said the same thing I said doesn't mean I've said it twice.
If you're not "attached" why would you claim you have the feeling of sadness when a character you're supposedly not "attached" to dies?"
I haven't claimed I'd have a feeling of sadness for said character if she dies that I'm not attached to. If Clementine dies I'd be A okay. I'd be enlightened by the confirmed fact that in that world no one is safe even the lead characters which is how it ought to be for this story and I'd have the universe's creator to back that up as well.
Moving on: Your claims of Psychological "Unhealthiness" are BS. Some people are more firm about their engrossment in a fictional universe. I am not. That doesn't mean they are "Psychologically Unhealthy" unless it affects their lifestyle. The stories are engrossing, but not to the point that it affects my lifestyle. We know she's a fictional character and we know she's not real, so stop over exaggerating please. This is a discussion about storytelling and other factors such as what is good for Telltale itself.
I believe I've said something along the lines of "MIGHT BE" or "SOUNDING" psychologically unhealthy. For someone that "claims" to know when to so accurately call B.S. I'd think you'd know that it is B.S. to get the interpretation of my statements incorrect. What I've said is suggesting that it is psychologically unhealthy not claiming or accusing one of psychological unhealthiness for I wouldn't or couldn't ever know without shadows of a doubt unless I was a therapist or psychologist that this behavior was psychologically unhealthy. But perhaps you are a professional of this academic field with a bachelors or masters? ONLY if so then maybe you could help enlighten if this reactionary behavior would be good or mature. Stop accusing please and I think Telltale games is highly likely aware of what was good for their company by a year or two prior. I just don't subscribe to the notion that fans should try their hardest to coerce writing decisions and details in accordance with their own wishes and emotions for the sake of prevention should the plot happen to go in the opposite direction that they wanted. I may be okay with and can accept Clem dying, but I'm not purposely and personally going out my way to create threads and sending emails to the HR and corporate to beg that they kill off the little citrus fruit girl.
Letting her live has been seen time and time again" Wrong, as it was stapled from season 2 that Clementine's story would be continuous. Letting her live is up to the final season, we knew she was going to live up to this point.
Wrong? Let us see. Season one= alive and alone Season two = alive and alone (possibly with baby AJ) Season three = alive and alone (looking for baby AJ) the common denominator here is that Clementine has been seen living and walking away to somewhere unknown time and again if you still don't know that then replay seasons one to present and come back (might have some variation with season two but if making the specific choices you'd see). Also tell that wrong to all the numerous threads each season from the past 5 years that begged and pleaded that they do not kill Clem at the end and also threatened to leave as a customer forever if so biting their nails hoping to Christ they don't kill off Clem saying it's bad writing as an excuse or saying it's predictable just because it has happened to one main character at the end when in truth it is not predictable but you cannot possibly ever know or sure she will be killed off until you get to point in the bridge to cross. Just because it might rain next month on the first does not mean it is predictable because the chances are good that it can come to pass or also not come to pass it's more of a toss up at this point just like Clem's death has always been. If AJ dies it didn't mean it was predictable only possible and that possibility took place. This is what we mean by excuses to guilt trip or prevent writers from making choices they may have wanted to do because it didn't fit within the cookie cutter wishes of the fans that don't take into account the wishes of how the original artists vision could be or not be. Best to leave it up to them to decide. Whatever their decision you can be happy, sad or mad but you will have to accept it good or bad in however your opinion leans.
You may say a horrible badly written ending fits this universe, but I don't think so. Considering they've succeeded so far in making good endings I'm almost sure they'll keep Clementine alive at this point thankfully. Otherwise yes, even though multiple people have fallaciously argued the point, Clementine dying would be a cliché ending due to it copying Season 1. And it would. That's partially why it would be horribly written.
Not badly written but I mean horrifically written as something that disturbs or depresses the viewer a case that is "fucked up" if you will. And if they've made a good ending that you say they succeeded in doing then fine but that is probably one too many since this whole genre is basically horror and in horrors why would you have a happy go lucky ending? It doesn't match the atmosphere. Would you put a terrible ending to something like Shrek or a light hearted comedy where every gets slaughtered at the end or sold into slavery? No it doesn't fit the atmosphere you'd have a heart warming ending where everyone laughs and not cries or is freaked out. New Frontier had one of those "good ending" I guess you may say or whatever but it didn't feel right just like that whole game anyhow but this is where things ought to get back on track. Season two was okay it had a unsettling and eerie end too with loosing Kenny or the vague intentions of the weirdo family. But what did all these endings have in common? Clem survives after loosing everyone just about except for maybe ANF but you get the point hopefully. If copying season one is cliche' then you already have at-least three cliche's in place and possibly a fourth upcoming. Also Clem's death doesn't have to be the same way Lee's was.
As for "cringeworthy fanfictions" you seem to be bothered a lot by what other fans do. While I don't enjoy fanfictions, some people do, and that's their taste. They're going to happen either way also, so I don't know what you're on about.
Sure but this is about damage control. LOL At-least there would be probably less fanfictions and more hate mail with Clem's demise than unknown whereabouts but confirmed alive. More stories for people to create if she is out there and about than gone like Lee Everett.
Your claim that all is opinion is also false.
No it's not.
If you think people just CAN'T survive in horrible odds realistically, oh how wrong you are
It's possible just not repeatedly forever and as little kids barely strong enough to lift a mountain bike.
Just because Clem survives does NOT mean there will be loose ends.
It is highly likely and opens the door for a fifth season. Because why the fuck not then? May as well had ended the series at season two like that.
I don't know why you insist on this speculation.
Something we have in common as well as with humanity as a whole is there is always a "we don't know why" about someone.
Like another person said, it seems as if many of the walkers are rotting to death, Jaws falling off, etc.
Hmm sounds like this has been going on since the beginning of the outbreak. Probably biting everyone too.
Considering it's nearing the end of both the games and the television series, we will most likely get a conclusive good ending from both.
A good ending is conclusively suggestive to an individual's tastes.
"As an Author, I can tell you that modern reasoning such as that of Kurt Vonnegut does not hold true. That's why only one of his works are very widely known (Breakfast of Champions). Take the Lord of the Rings as an example. It's one of the most popular stories in human history, yet characters rarely die in it. It would be a horrible ending to have Clementine die, and definitely be cliché, as we could all see it coming. Suffering is one thing in storytelling, death is another."
Learned something new about you an author.. I think I'd be intrigued with some of your work. And I haven't consumed that material known as Breakfast of Champions also do not have much interest for Lord of the Rings currently but may check it out some day just to see what the hype is about. And a horrible ending to a horrible way of life is fitting. Why would she even want to go on and on in that hell of a daily life anyhow, perhaps there would be some piece for her in death, just look how weary she is in season 4 and the trailers. Who knows maybe she'd even get to be with Lee and her parents again forever.
An ending where Clementine died would be bad for the community, bad for Marketing, bad for Telltale, bad storytelling, and all around bad. It's just the truth.
I explained the attached part in another thread made on account of this one from someone else. I will quote myself from there.
"Consideri… moreng two people are presuming I'm "Attached" to a character I didn't even make besides what Telltale lets you make of her, I wouldn't give much warrant to that claim.
While people can become attached to moldable characters, it's rare. If you want to see people attached to characters look to the source. It's well known that Authors, Developers, etc. sometimes even resonate with their characters. I like Clem as a character, a lot. She's one of my favorites. Attached? Maybe a little due to her being a moldable and very likeable character. Other than that claiming I'm attached has no affect on my points as they are not based mainly on me liking the character. They're based on what's good for the series and community besides the other things I covered. If you're not "attached" why would you claim you have the f… [view original content]
Point is friend.. that if Rick and Carl are both humans that can die within the universe of the walking dead both the comic and show then why would or should Clementine have special privileges over some of the most popular characters in the franchise? Over Lee too? I also am aware of why you made the thread I just don't agree.
I don't understand your point here. Rick and Carl can die. Rick hasn't yet. So what? The main point of this thread is to relay why it would be a bad ending for Clementine to die.
The response was actually flawed as I pointed out. It's not more clichéd to keep her alive, it's more clichéd to kill her off by using the s… moreame storyline as the first Season, which I'm quite sure they would do if they decided to kill her off.
Hands down the best ending would be for Clementine to live. It could and most likely would offer closure, and it would definitely make a lot of fans happy.
This is TT we're talking about here. Aside from ANF, and not talking about choices here, but their narrative/plot always exceeds my expectations, and I set the bar pretty high, as evidenced by my Done Running nitpicks thread. I've been reading this heated debate, and I've noticed you fail to realise how good of an ending they could potentially come up with. And it's also, in my opinion, quite strange to think about other characters' ends and let that distract you from a new story. Say you were playing the Stranger Things TT Game, you shouldn't think 'oh, I'm not buying this, Clem's dead, why should I give a damn about Telltale anymore'.
That's not how things work bud. Just my two cents though.
Actually, no, it's not. The truth can be painful. I know somewhat about marketing especially in the realm of gaming. I love Telltale games, … morebut bad writing on their part by killing off Clementine would turn me and many others off completely. It would show that they're capable of bad writing in any of their titles especially in sensitive places. As I said before this happened with Mass Effect 3 and it definitely, oh most definitely had an affect on Bioware and EA as a whole.
I had noticed that as well..Then again this person might point out how flawed my notation was because of X being better for the company, or Y for how wrong you are for loving how that comment was worded on cliches.. So perhaps I was wrong to respond to you and am full of flaws for logging in today before it's said.
I don't believe them to be excuses as they are my own reasons and beliefs as to why Telltale won't kill Clementine. I didn't say it was concrete proof. I did say that in my opinion, I believe that Telltale will keep her alive at the end of The Final Season. So, yeah, Clementine could die, but I, from my point of view, do not think she will. That is what I have been saying man
If they felt the same as you say then why would they allow the next installments go down the drain? Every season has been sort of disrespect… more to the classic original and their "mascot" until now. I think these are just excuses to not kill Clem. Rick is the main comic character and the creator has been out as saying even he is not safe and can die. If Rick and Carl can die then how can Clem not and she's in the exact same comic universe as they are?
You don't think she will because you believe she is the "mascot" of Telltale games because walking dead put Telltale games on the map ? of noticeability?
But what if Telltale doesn't feel they have a mascot character and won't need Clem to remain successful? Walking Dead did do the most wonders for them but it was mostly due to the story. You may believe that..but the only thing that would keep Clementine alive is likely their fear of fan whining and company wishes to avoid backlash like with New Frontier. Part of the reason why Javier got the boot and Clementine is front and center of the action again. Which is a bit unfortunate because this often hinders the max capability of the story at times. Though I do agree with their dumping Javier and his family as they were simply not intriguing.
I don't believe them to be excuses as they are my own reasons and beliefs as to why Telltale won't kill Clementine. I didn't say it was conc… morerete proof. I did say that in my opinion, I believe that Telltale will keep her alive at the end of The Final Season. So, yeah, Clementine could die, but I, from my point of view, do not think she will. That is what I have been saying man
Well introducing a whole new family with shitloads of baggage and trying to tell their past and present story in 45 minute episodes with lots of flashbacks mixed in was a completely retarded choice on Telltale's part.
You don't think she will because you believe she is the "mascot" of Telltale games because walking dead put Telltale games on the map ? of n… moreoticeability?
But what if Telltale doesn't feel they have a mascot character and won't need Clem to remain successful? Walking Dead did do the most wonders for them but it was mostly due to the story. You may believe that..but the only thing that would keep Clementine alive is likely their fear of fan whining and company wishes to avoid backlash like with New Frontier. Part of the reason why Javier got the boot and Clementine is front and center of the action again. Which is a bit unfortunate because this often hinders the max capability of the story at times. Though I do agree with their dumping Javier and his family as they were simply not intriguing.
Yes and I agree with the the fan backlash they got with that big mistake. But not the threats of backlash to keep certain characters alive if the story calls for their death in a logical and sensible way. Like there is nothing wrong with killing off Jane or Kenny but do it a way that fits in character and makes sense at the same time. If they made a emotional good honorable death for Clem folks could keep that from taking place only because they personally want Clem to live even if the ending where she lives is mediocre in comparison to the dead end. No pun intended.
Well introducing a whole new family with shitloads of baggage and trying to tell their past and present story in 45 minute episodes with lots of flashbacks mixed in was a completely retarded choice on Telltale's part.
I explained clearly where you quoted me that if they killed off Clem it would show that they're capable of bad writing even in the most sensitive places, which would turn me off to their stories. I cannot think of a good ending where Clem dies that's not Cliché, but I can think of many good endings where she'd live.
This is TT we're talking about here. Aside from ANF, and not talking about choices here, but their narrative/plot always exceeds my expectat… moreions, and I set the bar pretty high, as evidenced by my Done Running nitpicks thread. I've been reading this heated debate, and I've noticed you fail to realise how good of an ending they could potentially come up with. And it's also, in my opinion, quite strange to think about other characters' ends and let that distract you from a new story. Say you were playing the Stranger Things TT Game, you shouldn't think 'oh, I'm not buying this, Clem's dead, why should I give a damn about Telltale anymore'.
That's not how things work bud. Just my two cents though.
I feel like I've had to repeat myself a lot in this thread. On the first point you misunderstood completely. As I said I quoted MYSELF from another thread which was made around the time this one was.
And the feeling of sadness point was directed towards someone else in that thread, not you.
My point on psychological health still stands. Just because you said "maybe" doesn't change the message of what you were trying to convey. You also speculated that I'm attached to Clementine, a fictional character, more than I would be attached to a real person.
Your claims about begging and pleading for Clementine to live every season are also not true. It was stapled she would be the main character in a continuous story. The part about bad writing you're just taking from what people have said on this thread, and it's not an excuse to say it would be bad writing. It would be.
Telltale does not follow everything the fans say. For some reason it seems you have a very warped view of how the development process is. Rarely does a community have a large affect on the outcome of a game. It's not as if I'm trying to tell them what to do either. I clearly stated it was a suggestion. The chance is slim that any developers or anyone who would relay this thread to a developer have seen the thread in the first place.
As for the copying of Season 1, if they killed Clem I'm almost certain they would do it in a similar if not the same way as Lee in Season 1. The writers convey Clem as hardened expert survivor who grew up in the thick of shit. That's what she is. Her just dying because of a bite or some crap would not be true to her character, that's why I think the Devs aren't going to kill her off anyway. As for her losing everyone every season, she doesn't. The times that she ALMOST did are a testament to the fact that she can survive even in horrible odds. And who says if she survives she'll lose everyone around her in the final season? Your speculation seriously isn't making sense. It's inconsistent.
And no, what I've said is not all opinion, which will bring me to the point of marketing and more in a moment.
"as little kids barely strong enough to raise a mountain bike" I had a laugh at this. You underestimate how situations like Clem has been in can shape the human body and psyche. She allowed herself to be branded at 13 years old. That among other things should tell you that she's not your average "little kid".
Your points are becoming more and more fallacious as you continue. The point of telling a continuous story is that it's continuous. Saying it might as well have ended at season two if loose ends could have been tied up is ridiculous.
And for the last time, this is the final season. It's called the final season for a reason, there will be no new season afterwards. DLC? Maybe. But this is the end of the story, and Clem living or dying would not change that. Neither would leave anything open. It's not "highly likely" that an ending where Clem lives would leave loose ends, in fact it's very unlikely considering it's the FINAL SEASON.
A couple people keep repeating "It's a horror universe" "reserve happy endings for Disney" and similar BS. Yes it's a horror universe. What exactly does that change? And no, happy endings are not reserved for certain genre of film or game, though who said the ending would be happy? There are some very emotionally turbulent movies and games that have good endings both happy and sad, and vice versa. Acting as if the horror genre or TWD in general has to have a depressing ending is not only unrealistic and untrue but also extremely boring.
"a horrible ending to a horrible way of life is fitting" Not in all cases, and not in this case specifically. as I pointed out Clementine is a hardened survivor and a single mother at that. You're thinking that everyone in TWD is alike and has to die alike or something, which is also unrealistic.
And for the last point where I discussed Marketing and such: Says who? Says logical deduction and marketing knowledge? Yeah. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing. I'm definitely not saying they should make more games with her involved but imagine if they made a movie after both series' and Clementine was in it. I'd love to see that. That's unrealistic though as I'm pretty sure they said she wouldn't appear again after the final season, but they didn't specify about in other media. It would be very bad for marketing to kill off Clementine. You'd be surprised how it has an affect on sales in the long run. For many people knowing that Clementine dies in the end would make them less inclined to purchase the games, or if they did, it would make them less inclined to purchase the rest of the games after a certain point. Other than that there are items marketed towards the fanbase of Telltale's TWD on Skybound such as action figures, clothing etc. All of it would be affected in a bad way. The part where I said it would be bad for the community is highly apparent, and you should know that especially if what you said about begging and pleading were true. But that's not the whole part of it. People such as myself would be turned off of telltale as a whole for the reasons I already stated. For many, many others it would be "torches and pickforks" as was said metaphorically by Jayroen. And I'm not going to say they'd be wrong for their reaction also due to the points I've already made. The bad storytelling is also explained in the points I've already made. It being bad for Telltale is just a given considering what I just wrote. I can't use Halo and Mass Effect enough as examples of what happens when bad storytelling is implemented.
My original points stand. I didn't make this thread for the sole purpose of discussion. I actually thought about it before writing it up and the points I made are highly plausible if not valid. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing, Storytelling, The Community, and Telltale as a whole.
I explained the attached part in another thread made on account of this one from someone else. I will quote myself from there.
"Consi… moredering two people are presuming I'm "Attached" to a character I didn't even make besides what Telltale lets you make of her, I wouldn't give much warrant to that claim.
Well there is your problem right there if the following is the case.. Are you saying you took what another user said that was similar to what I said and claiming I've said it repeatedly? If so how could I possibly know your taking words from another user and adding them to what I've said and claiming I keep saying the same thing to you repeatedly just because we both have said something similar to you separately . Just because another user said the same thing I said doesn't mean I've said it twice.
If you're not "attached" why would you claim you have the feeling of sadness when a character you're supposedly not "attached" … [view original content]
I don't think I ever quoted you. You've been doing this a lot lolThink before you send. I don't think you can come up with a good ending where she can live - if you can, then post it here please I love reading. And why auren't you listening?
This is TT we're talking about here. Aside from ANF, and not talking about choices here, but their narrative/plot always exceeds my expectations, and I set the bar pretty high. I've been reading this heated debate, and I've noticed you fail to realise how good of an ending they could potentially come up with. And it's also, in my opinion, quite strange to think about other characters' ends and let that distract you from a new story. Say you were playing the Stranger Things TT Game, you shouldn't think 'oh, I'm not buying this, Clem's dead, why should I give a damn about Telltale anymore'.
That's what I said. By arguing, you could try to counter my arguement by explaining why the killing of Clem is bad writing. 'Because it's cliche' doesn't suffice, and neither does 'she's the mascot', or 'I'll boycott Telltale' I countered your arguement, so you could counter mine, but instead you repeat yourself. I'm trying to keep this civil and engaging.
I explained clearly where you quoted me that if they killed off Clem it would show that they're capable of bad writing even in the most sens… moreitive places, which would turn me off to their stories. I cannot think of a good ending where Clem dies that's not Cliché, but I can think of many good endings where she'd live.
What would they say? "Hey all, Clem is our mascot...even though we killed her in time for your Christmas...we know you will appreciate us keeping her murdered image fresh in your hearts!"
By quote I meant reply, whereas my post is attached to your reply. And in trying to remain "civil" you're telling me to think before I send? You talked about a point I clearly covered as if I hadn't explained it at all and I pointed that out. I'd say you need to think before you send. I never said I'd boycott telltale, I never called Clem a "mascot", so you must be taking that from other places. I said I'd be turned off of Telltale as a whole if they killed of Clem, and for good reason. Generally, not in depth, it would be bad writing if Clementine was killed off. You can say "Oh it could be a good ending" but how many ways can she be killed off? Walkers? What she trips or some shit? She's shot? It would not be a good ending because she died, and yes, the fact that it would be a Cliché ending does matter.
The point at which you said "You've been doing this a lot lol" has no meaning to me.
I could list dozens of good endings where Clem survives, some happy, some sad, some maybe in between, bittersweet. I could make it a masterfully written ending. But the fact is, I'm not the writer, and I don't like writing fanfiction style speculation endings. The final chapter isn't even near yet, but I guess I'll have a go.
I began to write it, but you'll have to give me a bit to finish.
I don't think I ever quoted you. You've been doing this a lot lolThink before you send. I don't think you can come up with a good ending whe… morere she can live - if you can, then post it here please I love reading. And why auren't you listening?
This is TT we're talking about here. Aside from ANF, and not talking about choices here, but their narrative/plot always exceeds my expectations, and I set the bar pretty high. I've been reading this heated debate, and I've noticed you fail to realise how good of an ending they could potentially come up with. And it's also, in my opinion, quite strange to think about other characters' ends and let that distract you from a new story. Say you were playing the Stranger Things TT Game, you shouldn't think 'oh, I'm not buying this, Clem's dead, why should I give a damn about Telltale anymore'.
That's what I said. By arguing, you could try to counter my arguement by explaining why the killing of … [view original content]
You did say you'd be turned off from buying Telltale games. And again, you can't keep saying something is bad writing. Look at how confident Telltale are. They use words like 'gratifying' and 'harrowing' and 'emotionally satisfying' I'm joking around here. But I have complete trust that this will be a good ending and hopefully a determinable ending, so everyone can be happy. But as I said, they can do whatever they see as best. Look at Lee's death, that was a lame way to give him a bite, but bam. Idk 30+ goty awards/nominations, probably more. Of course they can't do the same thing. ''Eck they killed off Lee in such a dumb way I hate Clementine. Never buying a Telltale again, heckin' bad writing!''
I'll write off your endings as 'bad writing' if they auren't emotionally satisfying, jk. Good luck and I hope it turns out great. Just know that although I'd like to see Clem's luck run out I hope the ending can satisfy everyone.
By quote I meant reply, whereas my post is attached to your reply. And in trying to remain "civil" you're telling me to think before I send?… more You talked about a point I clearly covered as if I hadn't explained it at all and I pointed that out. I'd say you need to think before you send. I never said I'd boycott telltale, I never called Clem a "mascot", so you must be taking that from other places. I said I'd be turned off of Telltale as a whole if they killed of Clem, and for good reason. Generally, not in depth, it would be bad writing if Clementine was killed off. You can say "Oh it could be a good ending" but how many ways can she be killed off? Walkers? What she trips or some shit? She's shot? It would not be a good ending because she died, and yes, the fact that it would be a Cliché ending does matter.
The point at which you said "You've been doing this a lot lol" has no meaning to me.
I could list dozens of good endings where Clem s… [view original content]
Your claims about begging and pleading for Clementine to live every season are also not true.
IF you have time (which appears you do) all vintage threads starting with late/fall 2013 to present.
It was stapled she would be the main character in a continuous story.
Okay?.... Does not negate the fact that she can be killed canonically. Also apparently the team of season 3 did not get that message by making Javier main character.
The part about bad writing you're just taking from what people have said on this thread, and it's not an excuse to say it would be bad writing. It would be.
Season one was not considered bad writing and the lead character did not make it. Game of Thrones although a different story kills off their lead characters yet rakes in constant praise and critical acclaim. Just because a protagonist is done in in a good way does not make it bad writing. It's only bad if the death never made sense. Not because you think it is possible because of a prior lead's death or because you personally are fond of the character. Folks who watch the tv show say the exact same things about how it would be bad writing if certain characters are killed off. Unlike the video games the show is still going on maybe not as strong as before but still going.
Telltale does not follow everything the fans say.
Unless it involves profits and sales. Minority of people liked Javier and wanted Clementine back front and center and guess who is back front and center in season 4.. Folks threatening to no longer be an active customer due to the sole action of killing Clem can possibly have the same effect in spite of the death being well executed like Lee's was though no in the exact same way, circumstance or situation. Also IF they did follow everything episodes would have been improved years ago.
Her just dying because of a bite or some crap would not be true to her character, that's why I think the Devs aren't going to kill her off anyway.
IF you think that then there is nothing to worry bout right? For you and for now anyway.. Main realistic reason devs won't kill her is due to fans making threats and threads like these about what will happen if they choose to end the character they created if one is confident they won't do it then there is no need to bring up the "Don't kill Clem or else" threads over and over again. Also people in that world get bit all the time when they least expect it. It's always a looming threat, like getting killed by other "bad" survivors or cannibalistic groups.
As for her losing everyone every season, she doesn't. The times that she ALMOST did are a testament to the fact that she can survive even in horrible odds.
I had a laugh at this..She essentially does and it's testament to the fact she has plot armor. Especially when grown ups are killed off. Clementine is nowhere near as hardened as David Garcia or Michonne added with the fact she's a kid.
Your speculation seriously isn't making sense. It's inconsistent.
To you.
You underestimate how situations like Clem has been in can shape the human body and psyche. She allowed herself to be branded at 13 years old. That among other things should tell you that she's not your average "little kid".
Animals and baby animals can also be branded does that may them tough too? That same 13 year old knocked over a huge tree in the road without tools and equipment at just the right time to inadvertently save Javier from capture. Does that make her she-hulk or just silly writing? As silly as thinking a 13 year girl can defy the odds of nature and survive longer than full grown adults and other kids her same age and size..That's what Kenny would call getting real lucky and nothing to do with her the shape her body has been molded into especially with all the malnutrition she's suffering with. When your ready.. get... real.
The point of telling a continuous story is that it's continuous. Saying it might as well have ended at season two if loose ends could have been tied up is ridiculous.
You don't say? I guess that's why they are ridiculously throwing in the towel at only season 4.
And for the last time, this is the final season. It's called the final season for a reason, there will be no new season afterwards. DLC? Maybe.
This line of yours sounds acutely contradictory to your previous. Perhaps the author of those is seriously inconsistent and not making sense by becoming more fallacious from within openly manifested as they continue to trip over their own words? Thoughts?
A couple people keep repeating "It's a horror universe" "reserve happy endings for Disney" and similar BS. Yes it's a horror universe. What exactly does that change? And no, happy endings are not reserved for certain genre of film or game, though who said the ending would be happy? There are some very emotionally turbulent movies and games that have good endings both happy and sad, and vice versa. Acting as if the horror genre or TWD in general has to have a depressing ending is not only unrealistic and untrue but also extremely boring.
"a horrible ending to a horrible way of life is fitting" Not in all cases, and not in this case specifically. as I pointed out Clementine is a hardened survivor and a single mother at that. You're thinking that everyone in TWD is alike and has to die alike or something, which is also unrealistic.
Horrific endings don't belong in happier light hearted stories like comedies. Neither do happy light hearted endings belong in horrors. Is it possible to inverse the two and cross them over at the ends of these two types of opposing stories? Yes but shouldn't be just because they could be. Besides New Frontier ended the way you would label a "happier ending" Season two kind of can as well because it has a mix up of endings that are all mostly either bitter-sweet or hopeful of what lies ahead in a mellow mood. Season one was depressing and unsure of what comes next atleast at the time. So come to think of it. Telltale's walking dead has not really had a horrific type of end to any of their games aside from season one being closest. In any case the series is long overdue for another ending that will "rock the boat" preferably. More endings like New Frontier and season two either won't stand the test of time or just create more arguments with two or more opposing sides as with season two and the war of debates it left in it's wake in the aftermath of that season's conclusion. Maybe it is about time to put Clementine to rest she's been through a lot and misses Lee. Should she loose AJ she likely won't want to live for much anymore and might prefer to join them both through her own actions or another's actions. Again remember these two quotes which will inevitably be everyone's fate Clem included. " Everyone's luck runs out" and "In the end the dead always win". We near the end..
And for the last point where I discussed Marketing and such: Says who? Says logical deduction and marketing knowledge? Yeah. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing. I'm definitely not saying they should make more games with her involved but imagine if they made a movie after both series' and Clementine was in it. I'd love to see that. That's unrealistic though as I'm pretty sure they said she wouldn't appear again after the final season, but they didn't specify about in other media. It would be very bad for marketing to kill off Clementine. You'd be surprised how it has an affect on sales in the long run. For many people knowing that Clementine dies in the end would make them less inclined to purchase the games, or if they did, it would make them less inclined to purchase the rest of the games after a certain point. Other than that there are items marketed towards the fanbase of Telltale's TWD on Skybound such as action figures, clothing etc. All of it would be affected in a bad way. The part where I said it would be bad for the community is highly apparent, and you should know that especially if what you said about begging and pleading were true. But that's not the whole part of it. People such as myself would be turned off of telltale as a whole for the reasons I already stated. For many, many others it would be "torches and pickforks" as was said metaphorically by Jayroen. And I'm not going to say they'd be wrong for their reaction also due to the points I've already made. The bad storytelling is also explained in the points I've already made. It being bad for Telltale is just a given considering what I just wrote. I can't use Halo and Mass Effect enough as examples of what happens when bad storytelling is implemented.
My original points stand. I didn't make this thread for the sole purpose of discussion. I actually thought about it before writing it up and the points I made are highly plausible if not valid. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing, Storytelling, The Community, and Telltale as a whole.
I feel like I've had to repeat myself a lot in this thread. On the first point you misunderstood completely. As I said I quoted MYSELF from … moreanother thread which was made around the time this one was.
And the feeling of sadness point was directed towards someone else in that thread, not you.
My point on psychological health still stands. Just because you said "maybe" doesn't change the message of what you were trying to convey. You also speculated that I'm attached to Clementine, a fictional character, more than I would be attached to a real person.
Your claims about begging and pleading for Clementine to live every season are also not true. It was stapled she would be the main character in a continuous story. The part about bad writing you're just taking from what people have said on this thread, and it's not an excuse to say it would be bad writing. It would be.
Telltale does not follow everything the fans say. For some reason it… [view original content]
Comments
You've explained me wrongly using the word attached where? So far as I've seen this is the first usage of that word. You want Clem to live and if she died you'd have a big problem with that.. no? This surely sounds like the definition of attached. The same way if the family dog dies by car accident.
Good thing they have not been dying every season aside from the first. About due for another. Folks have panicked every year about Clem dying. It's only predictable because they anxiously dread and anticipate it happening only because it's happened to Lee. No one can know for sure if she'll live or not so perhaps it's not predictable just because it's possible.
Come the finale this will be "HAD" a continuous story. Therefore death is far more feasible than ever before to occur to the main character.
Personal opinion than statistical fact there.
Which proves my point even further with a popular/beloved character Like Clem being still alive versus dead like Lee. Only this time speculation would have way more validity to it because it's possible a living character can be summoned back and not a dead character. Discussions would go on forever over a character TTG wishes no longer to write about. Atleast the Lee lives conspiracy theories are often abruptly dismissed as silly trolls.
To insist something I'd atleast have to bring it up a few times. I think I've only implied that in a single message.
Perhaps this is yet another personal opinion.
I don't recall saying EVERY writer only this universe because it fits the atmosphere. Picnics on the beach type endings don't suit the mood of that world. Fighting a endless herd of walkers with the backs of the characters to the ocean while on the beach facing a obviously hopeless situation is walking dead ending it inspires fear of what the world has become and it's main threat. Now hunger games, superheroes, Harry Potter or game of thrones, and Disney shows don't have the same horror atmosphere and are permitted to end on more mellow laid back notes.
IF can go the opposite direction too. If the game has a good written ending it will have high replay value. Just because a great main character dies at the end doesn't automatically make it a bad ending. (Spoiler Alert) ? Refer to season one for examples game was masterfully written and the protagonist gets a sad ending.
Ten years from now or even five years from now if we're lucky ? we would not have to be subjected to goosebumps from all cringeworthy fan fictions and speculation to a stories future that will never be officially confirmed by developers.
An ending where Clem is alive would be best for the series and the community.
ALL also said as personal opinion or from individual perspective and not a general fact.
If you want Clem to unrealistically beat all odds for a fourth time and survive in spite of like 25 other folks somehow dying around her of which most are just as if not more strong and smart then that's fine. But in my point of view that is an individual perspective. It feels flat like soda without bubbles and already done more than twice. I'll never know what becomes of Clem forever if they have her walk or sit in the forest ? never to return again. While I just get ideas that can't be proven about what happens next since it's not official from the pro writers and just hopeful pipedreams of the writing amateurs which is, mostly unsatisfactory.
Very well written! I couldn’t agree more. I believe her death will be determinate, but you are absolutely right: the world isn’t going to get better; that’s evident. It’s about the time you spend with the living that matters, not how your story ends.
Walking in doors will produce a identical effect. Tomato ? Tomotto..Just like the Howes ending from season two where they could have made a sweet home ? of that. Walking inside Wellington etc.. Just about any living finale where she defeats the enemies and moves on has been done.
Who was Telltale's mascot before walking dead?
Sam and Max? But Sam and Max did not propel them to where they are today. It definitely played it's part and lead to them establishing themselves but Walking Dead is what truly put them on the map and showed the Gaming Industry what Telltale are capable of.
That’s BS.
I'm gonna say it again because people still don't fucking get it apparently.
They have to make multiple endings,that's the only way to make everyone's happy,that's it.
Season 5 confirmed!
would like to see clem die, just for the shitstorm it creates
If they felt the same as you say then why would they allow the next installments go down the drain? Every season has been sort of disrespect to the classic original and their "mascot" until now. I think these are just excuses to not kill Clem. Rick is the main comic character and the creator has been out as saying even he is not safe and can die. If Rick and Carl can die then how can Clem not and she's in the exact same comic universe as they are?
That'd be more like a shitquake! And boy would that be worth a popcorn ? and beer ? or two to view.
A beer with popcorn??? Bad combo
Sold together at plenty movie theaters, so may turn out tasty..if given a try. IF over 21 that is..
I'm 21, but I don't buy alcohol. I've definitely had it before though.
Dude you deserve a ? trophy for that response.
Only thing I took issue with is this..
I don't think you should have to explain that you love the character repeatedly so as to avoid stepping on toes or backlash from opposing sides. It's what you feel.
I explained the attached part in another thread made on account of this one from someone else. I will quote myself from there.
"Considering two people are presuming I'm "Attached" to a character I didn't even make besides what Telltale lets you make of her, I wouldn't give much warrant to that claim.
While people can become attached to moldable characters, it's rare. If you want to see people attached to characters look to the source. It's well known that Authors, Developers, etc. sometimes even resonate with their characters. I like Clem as a character, a lot. She's one of my favorites. Attached? Maybe a little due to her being a moldable and very likeable character. Other than that claiming I'm attached has no affect on my points as they are not based mainly on me liking the character. They're based on what's good for the series and community besides the other things I covered. If you're not "attached" why would you claim you have the feeling of sadness when a character you're supposedly not "attached" to dies?"
Moving on: Your claims of Psychological "Unhealthiness" are BS. Some people are more firm about their engrossment in a fictional universe. I am not. That doesn't mean they are "Psychologically Unhealthy" unless it affects their lifestyle. The stories are engrossing, but not to the point that it affects my lifestyle. We know she's a fictional character and we know she's not real, so stop over exaggerating please. This is a discussion about storytelling and other factors such as what is good for Telltale itself.
"Letting her live has been seen time and time again" Wrong, as it was stapled from season 2 that Clementine's story would be continuous. Letting her live is up to the final season, we knew she was going to live up to this point.
You may say a horrible badly written ending fits this universe, but I don't think so. Considering they've succeeded so far in making good endings I'm almost sure they'll keep Clementine alive at this point thankfully. Otherwise yes, even though multiple people have fallaciously argued the point, Clementine dying would be a cliché ending due to it copying Season 1. And it would. That's partially why it would be horribly written.
It's not personal opinion that people won't speculate on Clem coming back if she survives as I explained. We know this is the final Season, and probably Telltale's last TWD title. I'm pretty sure they said she's not appearing again. So speculating on a return would make no sense. I don't know why you are so bothered about this in the first place.
And yes it does seem like your train of thought leads to the idea that a writer has to kill off their main character in order for their fans not to speculate. This does make no sense, as the end of the story is the end of the story, as is especially true in the case of the Final Season.
As for "cringeworthy fanfictions" you seem to be bothered a lot by what other fans do. While I don't enjoy fanfictions, some people do, and that's their taste. They're going to happen either way also, so I don't know what you're on about.
Your claim that all is opinion is also false.
The end of the television series is coming soon. Therefor the ending is even more mysterious on both parts. Look how long Rick survived. If you think people just CAN'T survive in horrible odds realistically, oh how wrong you are. It's happened time and time again in history and it's not unrealistic. Just because Clem survives does NOT mean there will be loose ends. I don't know why you insist on this speculation. Many survival stories end with the main character surviving, and there are not loose ends.
Like another person said, it seems as if many of the walkers are rotting to death, Jaws falling off, etc.
Considering it's nearing the end of both the games and the television series, we will most likely get a conclusive good ending from both.
"As an Author, I can tell you that modern reasoning such as that of Kurt Vonnegut does not hold true. That's why only one of his works are very widely known (Breakfast of Champions). Take the Lord of the Rings as an example. It's one of the most popular stories in human history, yet characters rarely die in it. It would be a horrible ending to have Clementine die, and definitely be cliché, as we could all see it coming. Suffering is one thing in storytelling, death is another."
An ending where Clementine died would be bad for the community, bad for Marketing, bad for Telltale, bad storytelling, and all around bad. It's just the truth.
I don't understand your point here. Rick and Carl can die. Rick hasn't yet. So what? The main point of this thread is to relay why it would be a bad ending for Clementine to die.
The response was actually flawed as I pointed out. It's not more clichéd to keep her alive, it's more clichéd to kill her off by using the same storyline as the first Season, which I'm quite sure they would do if they decided to kill her off.
Hands down the best ending would be for Clementine to live. It could and most likely would offer closure, and it would definitely make a lot of fans happy.
Actually, no, it's not. The truth can be painful. I know somewhat about marketing especially in the realm of gaming. I love Telltale games, but bad writing on their part by killing off Clementine would turn me and many others off completely. It would show that they're capable of bad writing in any of their titles especially in sensitive places. As I said before this happened with Mass Effect 3 and it definitely, oh most definitely had an affect on Bioware and EA as a whole.
Well there is your problem right there if the following is the case.. Are you saying you took what another user said that was similar to what I said and claiming I've said it repeatedly? If so how could I possibly know your taking words from another user and adding them to what I've said and claiming I keep saying the same thing to you repeatedly just because we both have said something similar to you separately . Just because another user said the same thing I said doesn't mean I've said it twice.
I haven't claimed I'd have a feeling of sadness for said character if she dies that I'm not attached to. If Clementine dies I'd be A okay. I'd be enlightened by the confirmed fact that in that world no one is safe even the lead characters which is how it ought to be for this story and I'd have the universe's creator to back that up as well.
I believe I've said something along the lines of "MIGHT BE" or "SOUNDING" psychologically unhealthy. For someone that "claims" to know when to so accurately call B.S. I'd think you'd know that it is B.S. to get the interpretation of my statements incorrect. What I've said is suggesting that it is psychologically unhealthy not claiming or accusing one of psychological unhealthiness for I wouldn't or couldn't ever know without shadows of a doubt unless I was a therapist or psychologist that this behavior was psychologically unhealthy. But perhaps you are a professional of this academic field with a bachelors or masters? ONLY if so then maybe you could help enlighten if this reactionary behavior would be good or mature. Stop accusing please and I think Telltale games is highly likely aware of what was good for their company by a year or two prior. I just don't subscribe to the notion that fans should try their hardest to coerce writing decisions and details in accordance with their own wishes and emotions for the sake of prevention should the plot happen to go in the opposite direction that they wanted. I may be okay with and can accept Clem dying, but I'm not purposely and personally going out my way to create threads and sending emails to the HR and corporate to beg that they kill off the little citrus fruit girl.
Wrong? Let us see. Season one= alive and alone Season two = alive and alone (possibly with baby AJ) Season three = alive and alone (looking for baby AJ) the common denominator here is that Clementine has been seen living and walking away to somewhere unknown time and again if you still don't know that then replay seasons one to present and come back (might have some variation with season two but if making the specific choices you'd see). Also tell that wrong to all the numerous threads each season from the past 5 years that begged and pleaded that they do not kill Clem at the end and also threatened to leave as a customer forever if so biting their nails hoping to Christ they don't kill off Clem saying it's bad writing as an excuse or saying it's predictable just because it has happened to one main character at the end when in truth it is not predictable but you cannot possibly ever know or sure she will be killed off until you get to point in the bridge to cross. Just because it might rain next month on the first does not mean it is predictable because the chances are good that it can come to pass or also not come to pass it's more of a toss up at this point just like Clem's death has always been. If AJ dies it didn't mean it was predictable only possible and that possibility took place. This is what we mean by excuses to guilt trip or prevent writers from making choices they may have wanted to do because it didn't fit within the cookie cutter wishes of the fans that don't take into account the wishes of how the original artists vision could be or not be. Best to leave it up to them to decide. Whatever their decision you can be happy, sad or mad but you will have to accept it good or bad in however your opinion leans.
Not badly written but I mean horrifically written as something that disturbs or depresses the viewer a case that is "fucked up" if you will. And if they've made a good ending that you say they succeeded in doing then fine but that is probably one too many since this whole genre is basically horror and in horrors why would you have a happy go lucky ending? It doesn't match the atmosphere. Would you put a terrible ending to something like Shrek or a light hearted comedy where every gets slaughtered at the end or sold into slavery? No it doesn't fit the atmosphere you'd have a heart warming ending where everyone laughs and not cries or is freaked out. New Frontier had one of those "good ending" I guess you may say or whatever but it didn't feel right just like that whole game anyhow but this is where things ought to get back on track. Season two was okay it had a unsettling and eerie end too with loosing Kenny or the vague intentions of the weirdo family. But what did all these endings have in common? Clem survives after loosing everyone just about except for maybe ANF but you get the point hopefully. If copying season one is cliche' then you already have at-least three cliche's in place and possibly a fourth upcoming. Also Clem's death doesn't have to be the same way Lee's was.
Sure but this is about damage control. LOL At-least there would be probably less fanfictions and more hate mail with Clem's demise than unknown whereabouts but confirmed alive. More stories for people to create if she is out there and about than gone like Lee Everett.
No it's not.
It's possible just not repeatedly forever and as little kids barely strong enough to lift a mountain bike.
It is highly likely and opens the door for a fifth season. Because why the fuck not then? May as well had ended the series at season two like that.
Something we have in common as well as with humanity as a whole is there is always a "we don't know why" about someone.
Hmm sounds like this has been going on since the beginning of the outbreak. Probably biting everyone too.
A good ending is conclusively suggestive to an individual's tastes.
Learned something new about you an author.. I think I'd be intrigued with some of your work. And I haven't consumed that material known as Breakfast of Champions also do not have much interest for Lord of the Rings currently but may check it out some day just to see what the hype is about. And a horrible ending to a horrible way of life is fitting. Why would she even want to go on and on in that hell of a daily life anyhow, perhaps there would be some piece for her in death, just look how weary she is in season 4 and the trailers. Who knows maybe she'd even get to be with Lee and her parents again forever.
Eh.......... says who?
Point is friend.. that if Rick and Carl are both humans that can die within the universe of the walking dead both the comic and show then why would or should Clementine have special privileges over some of the most popular characters in the franchise? Over Lee too? I also am aware of why you made the thread I just don't agree.
Sounds like another one of those what ya call em? Opinions.
This is TT we're talking about here. Aside from ANF, and not talking about choices here, but their narrative/plot always exceeds my expectations, and I set the bar pretty high, as evidenced by my Done Running nitpicks thread. I've been reading this heated debate, and I've noticed you fail to realise how good of an ending they could potentially come up with. And it's also, in my opinion, quite strange to think about other characters' ends and let that distract you from a new story. Say you were playing the Stranger Things TT Game, you shouldn't think 'oh, I'm not buying this, Clem's dead, why should I give a damn about Telltale anymore'.
That's not how things work bud. Just my two cents though.
I had noticed that as well..Then again this person might point out how flawed my notation was because of X being better for the company, or Y for how wrong you are for loving how that comment was worded on cliches.. So perhaps I was wrong to respond to you and am full of flaws for logging in today before it's said.
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Looks like we won’t be hearing from them anytime soon
I don't believe them to be excuses as they are my own reasons and beliefs as to why Telltale won't kill Clementine. I didn't say it was concrete proof. I did say that in my opinion, I believe that Telltale will keep her alive at the end of The Final Season. So, yeah, Clementine could die, but I, from my point of view, do not think she will. That is what I have been saying man
You don't think she will because you believe she is the "mascot" of Telltale games because walking dead put Telltale games on the map ? of noticeability?
But what if Telltale doesn't feel they have a mascot character and won't need Clem to remain successful? Walking Dead did do the most wonders for them but it was mostly due to the story. You may believe that..but the only thing that would keep Clementine alive is likely their fear of fan whining and company wishes to avoid backlash like with New Frontier. Part of the reason why Javier got the boot and Clementine is front and center of the action again. Which is a bit unfortunate because this often hinders the max capability of the story at times. Though I do agree with their dumping Javier and his family as they were simply not intriguing.
Well introducing a whole new family with shitloads of baggage and trying to tell their past and present story in 45 minute episodes with lots of flashbacks mixed in was a completely retarded choice on Telltale's part.
Yes and I agree with the the fan backlash they got with that big mistake. But not the threats of backlash to keep certain characters alive if the story calls for their death in a logical and sensible way. Like there is nothing wrong with killing off Jane or Kenny but do it a way that fits in character and makes sense at the same time. If they made a emotional good honorable death for Clem folks could keep that from taking place only because they personally want Clem to live even if the ending where she lives is mediocre in comparison to the dead end. No pun intended.
I explained clearly where you quoted me that if they killed off Clem it would show that they're capable of bad writing even in the most sensitive places, which would turn me off to their stories. I cannot think of a good ending where Clem dies that's not Cliché, but I can think of many good endings where she'd live.
I feel like I've had to repeat myself a lot in this thread. On the first point you misunderstood completely. As I said I quoted MYSELF from another thread which was made around the time this one was.
And the feeling of sadness point was directed towards someone else in that thread, not you.
My point on psychological health still stands. Just because you said "maybe" doesn't change the message of what you were trying to convey. You also speculated that I'm attached to Clementine, a fictional character, more than I would be attached to a real person.
Your claims about begging and pleading for Clementine to live every season are also not true. It was stapled she would be the main character in a continuous story. The part about bad writing you're just taking from what people have said on this thread, and it's not an excuse to say it would be bad writing. It would be.
Telltale does not follow everything the fans say. For some reason it seems you have a very warped view of how the development process is. Rarely does a community have a large affect on the outcome of a game. It's not as if I'm trying to tell them what to do either. I clearly stated it was a suggestion. The chance is slim that any developers or anyone who would relay this thread to a developer have seen the thread in the first place.
As for the copying of Season 1, if they killed Clem I'm almost certain they would do it in a similar if not the same way as Lee in Season 1. The writers convey Clem as hardened expert survivor who grew up in the thick of shit. That's what she is. Her just dying because of a bite or some crap would not be true to her character, that's why I think the Devs aren't going to kill her off anyway. As for her losing everyone every season, she doesn't. The times that she ALMOST did are a testament to the fact that she can survive even in horrible odds. And who says if she survives she'll lose everyone around her in the final season? Your speculation seriously isn't making sense. It's inconsistent.
And no, what I've said is not all opinion, which will bring me to the point of marketing and more in a moment.
"as little kids barely strong enough to raise a mountain bike" I had a laugh at this. You underestimate how situations like Clem has been in can shape the human body and psyche. She allowed herself to be branded at 13 years old. That among other things should tell you that she's not your average "little kid".
Your points are becoming more and more fallacious as you continue. The point of telling a continuous story is that it's continuous. Saying it might as well have ended at season two if loose ends could have been tied up is ridiculous.
And for the last time, this is the final season. It's called the final season for a reason, there will be no new season afterwards. DLC? Maybe. But this is the end of the story, and Clem living or dying would not change that. Neither would leave anything open. It's not "highly likely" that an ending where Clem lives would leave loose ends, in fact it's very unlikely considering it's the FINAL SEASON.
A couple people keep repeating "It's a horror universe" "reserve happy endings for Disney" and similar BS. Yes it's a horror universe. What exactly does that change? And no, happy endings are not reserved for certain genre of film or game, though who said the ending would be happy? There are some very emotionally turbulent movies and games that have good endings both happy and sad, and vice versa. Acting as if the horror genre or TWD in general has to have a depressing ending is not only unrealistic and untrue but also extremely boring.
"a horrible ending to a horrible way of life is fitting" Not in all cases, and not in this case specifically. as I pointed out Clementine is a hardened survivor and a single mother at that. You're thinking that everyone in TWD is alike and has to die alike or something, which is also unrealistic.
And for the last point where I discussed Marketing and such: Says who? Says logical deduction and marketing knowledge? Yeah. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing. I'm definitely not saying they should make more games with her involved but imagine if they made a movie after both series' and Clementine was in it. I'd love to see that. That's unrealistic though as I'm pretty sure they said she wouldn't appear again after the final season, but they didn't specify about in other media. It would be very bad for marketing to kill off Clementine. You'd be surprised how it has an affect on sales in the long run. For many people knowing that Clementine dies in the end would make them less inclined to purchase the games, or if they did, it would make them less inclined to purchase the rest of the games after a certain point. Other than that there are items marketed towards the fanbase of Telltale's TWD on Skybound such as action figures, clothing etc. All of it would be affected in a bad way. The part where I said it would be bad for the community is highly apparent, and you should know that especially if what you said about begging and pleading were true. But that's not the whole part of it. People such as myself would be turned off of telltale as a whole for the reasons I already stated. For many, many others it would be "torches and pickforks" as was said metaphorically by Jayroen. And I'm not going to say they'd be wrong for their reaction also due to the points I've already made. The bad storytelling is also explained in the points I've already made. It being bad for Telltale is just a given considering what I just wrote. I can't use Halo and Mass Effect enough as examples of what happens when bad storytelling is implemented.
My original points stand. I didn't make this thread for the sole purpose of discussion. I actually thought about it before writing it up and the points I made are highly plausible if not valid. Killing off Clementine would be bad for Marketing, Storytelling, The Community, and Telltale as a whole.
I don't think I ever quoted you. You've been doing this a lot lolThink before you send. I don't think you can come up with a good ending where she can live - if you can, then post it here please I love reading. And why auren't you listening?
That's what I said. By arguing, you could try to counter my arguement by explaining why the killing of Clem is bad writing. 'Because it's cliche' doesn't suffice, and neither does 'she's the mascot', or 'I'll boycott Telltale' I countered your arguement, so you could counter mine, but instead you repeat yourself. I'm trying to keep this civil and engaging.
What would they say? "Hey all, Clem is our mascot...even though we killed her in time for your Christmas...we know you will appreciate us keeping her murdered image fresh in your hearts!"
By quote I meant reply, whereas my post is attached to your reply. And in trying to remain "civil" you're telling me to think before I send? You talked about a point I clearly covered as if I hadn't explained it at all and I pointed that out. I'd say you need to think before you send. I never said I'd boycott telltale, I never called Clem a "mascot", so you must be taking that from other places. I said I'd be turned off of Telltale as a whole if they killed of Clem, and for good reason. Generally, not in depth, it would be bad writing if Clementine was killed off. You can say "Oh it could be a good ending" but how many ways can she be killed off? Walkers? What she trips or some shit? She's shot? It would not be a good ending because she died, and yes, the fact that it would be a Cliché ending does matter.
The point at which you said "You've been doing this a lot lol" has no meaning to me.
I could list dozens of good endings where Clem survives, some happy, some sad, some maybe in between, bittersweet. I could make it a masterfully written ending. But the fact is, I'm not the writer, and I don't like writing fanfiction style speculation endings. The final chapter isn't even near yet, but I guess I'll have a go.
I began to write it, but you'll have to give me a bit to finish.
You did say you'd be turned off from buying Telltale games. And again, you can't keep saying something is bad writing. Look at how confident Telltale are. They use words like 'gratifying' and 'harrowing' and 'emotionally satisfying' I'm joking around here. But I have complete trust that this will be a good ending and hopefully a determinable ending, so everyone can be happy. But as I said, they can do whatever they see as best. Look at Lee's death, that was a lame way to give him a bite, but bam. Idk 30+ goty awards/nominations, probably more. Of course they can't do the same thing. ''Eck they killed off Lee in such a dumb way I hate Clementine. Never buying a Telltale again, heckin' bad writing!''
I'll write off your endings as 'bad writing' if they auren't emotionally satisfying, jk. Good luck and I hope it turns out great. Just know that although I'd like to see Clem's luck run out I hope the ending can satisfy everyone.
Ditto on my end.
IF you have time (which appears you do) all vintage threads starting with late/fall 2013 to present.
Okay?.... Does not negate the fact that she can be killed canonically. Also apparently the team of season 3 did not get that message by making Javier main character.
Season one was not considered bad writing and the lead character did not make it. Game of Thrones although a different story kills off their lead characters yet rakes in constant praise and critical acclaim. Just because a protagonist is done in in a good way does not make it bad writing. It's only bad if the death never made sense. Not because you think it is possible because of a prior lead's death or because you personally are fond of the character. Folks who watch the tv show say the exact same things about how it would be bad writing if certain characters are killed off. Unlike the video games the show is still going on maybe not as strong as before but still going.
Unless it involves profits and sales. Minority of people liked Javier and wanted Clementine back front and center and guess who is back front and center in season 4.. Folks threatening to no longer be an active customer due to the sole action of killing Clem can possibly have the same effect in spite of the death being well executed like Lee's was though no in the exact same way, circumstance or situation. Also IF they did follow everything episodes would have been improved years ago.
IF you think that then there is nothing to worry bout right? For you and for now anyway.. Main realistic reason devs won't kill her is due to fans making threats and threads like these about what will happen if they choose to end the character they created if one is confident they won't do it then there is no need to bring up the "Don't kill Clem or else" threads over and over again. Also people in that world get bit all the time when they least expect it. It's always a looming threat, like getting killed by other "bad" survivors or cannibalistic groups.
I had a laugh at this..She essentially does and it's testament to the fact she has plot armor. Especially when grown ups are killed off. Clementine is nowhere near as hardened as David Garcia or Michonne added with the fact she's a kid.
To you.
Animals and baby animals can also be branded does that may them tough too?
That same 13 year old knocked over a huge tree in the road without tools and equipment at just the right time to inadvertently save Javier from capture. Does that make her she-hulk or just silly writing? As silly as thinking a 13 year girl can defy the odds of nature and survive longer than full grown adults and other kids her same age and size..That's what Kenny would call getting real lucky and nothing to do with her the shape her body has been molded into especially with all the malnutrition she's suffering with. When your ready.. get... real.
You don't say? I guess that's why they are ridiculously throwing in the towel at only season 4.
This line of yours sounds acutely contradictory to your previous. Perhaps the author of those is seriously inconsistent and not making sense by becoming more fallacious from within openly manifested as they continue to trip over their own words? Thoughts?
Horrific endings don't belong in happier light hearted stories like comedies. Neither do happy light hearted endings belong in horrors. Is it possible to inverse the two and cross them over at the ends of these two types of opposing stories? Yes but shouldn't be just because they could be. Besides New Frontier ended the way you would label a "happier ending" Season two kind of can as well because it has a mix up of endings that are all mostly either bitter-sweet or hopeful of what lies ahead in a mellow mood. Season one was depressing and unsure of what comes next atleast at the time. So come to think of it. Telltale's walking dead has not really had a horrific type of end to any of their games aside from season one being closest. In any case the series is long overdue for another ending that will "rock the boat" preferably. More endings like New Frontier and season two either won't stand the test of time or just create more arguments with two or more opposing sides as with season two and the war of debates it left in it's wake in the aftermath of that season's conclusion. Maybe it is about time to put Clementine to rest she's been through a lot and misses Lee. Should she loose AJ she likely won't want to live for much anymore and might prefer to join them both through her own actions or another's actions. Again remember these two quotes which will inevitably be everyone's fate Clem included. " Everyone's luck runs out" and "In the end the dead always win". We near the end..
..Not really.