Here's a far fetched theory for ya.

Wait for it...

Christa is the leader of Lilly's raider group!

Ta da!

Okay, let me explain. You know comments like "Lee should have left you behind" and "You're weak and probably got lots of people killed" that Abel and Lilly throw at Clem during episode 2?
This way of thinking, what if it's all based on Christa's experiences with Clem?

Clem got Omid killed, and Lee, and Kenny as far as Christa knows. (and Chuck and Ben maybe)
In season 2 we saw that Christa hadn't really forgiven Clem for what happened to Omid yet. What if her grief got twisted so much over the years that it turned into this awful philosophy the raiders seem to share?

So what do you think? Should I have posted this in the Really Stupid Theories thread, or am I on to something?

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Comments

  • Don't really think it works. Lilly would have known from Christa that Lee was dead, instead of inferring it from Lee not being there with Clementine.

  • That's assuming they got together and talked about their lives.
    I don't recall either of them being very chatty or open.

    Piggs posted: »

    Don't really think it works. Lilly would have known from Christa that Lee was dead, instead of inferring it from Lee not being there with Clementine.

  • Actually.. Violet says that Lilly is the leader of the raiders.
    Skip to 57:23.

  • I think that's just Violet making assumptions based on what she saw in the forest. I mean, how would she know who leads the raiders?

    NexusFire posted: »

    Actually.. Violet says that Lilly is the leader of the raiders. Skip to 57:23.

  • Hmm.. maybe. Just wanted to point that out.

    Onmens posted: »

    I think that's just Violet making assumptions based on what she saw in the forest. I mean, how would she know who leads the raiders?

  • I would like top add, losing her baby was a traumatic experience . She could have convinced herself over time that it was for the best. (because kids are weak and get you killed.)

  • Actually, Lilly and Christa never met each other, on-screen at least. This could be a cool plot twist, even if reuniting with TWO people from the past in the SAME group is a bit far-fetched, still a cool theory

  • edited September 2018

    Yeah, it's true that it's far fetched. Can't argue there.
    But I like to think that Telltale was willing to spoil Lilly's return in the trailer (and the story builder) because they knew the real surprise was still coming.

    Actually, Lilly and Christa never met each other, on-screen at least. This could be a cool plot twist, even if reuniting with TWO people from the past in the SAME group is a bit far-fetched, still a cool theory

  • But Lilly never met Christa or am I missing a DLC or something.

    Piggs posted: »

    Don't really think it works. Lilly would have known from Christa that Lee was dead, instead of inferring it from Lee not being there with Clementine.

  • He means that if they were part of the same raider group they would have talked to eachother.

    But Lilly never met Christa or am I missing a DLC or something.

  • The leader is a guy called Michael I think,

  • Nah. It's clear from Lilly and Abel's conversation between each other that she's just the team leader in charge of their scouting and raiding parties, not the entire Delta group. The way she talks about things, yeah she has authority but she also answers to other people. Think about it logically, they're at war with another community, would the leader risk themselves or even have time to go on scouting or "recruitment" missions?

    NexusFire posted: »

    Actually.. Violet says that Lilly is the leader of the raiders. Skip to 57:23.

  • I was also thinking that someone else is the leader. It's still interesting that Violet says nonetheless.

    Nah. It's clear from Lilly and Abel's conversation between each other that she's just the team leader in charge of their scouting and raidin

  • Tbh i had the idea that Christa would be the leader of the group that Lilly is against, and that we would maybe have to chose a side later on, idk :b

  • I think in context she meant leader of the scouting party, not leader of the entire group.

    NexusFire posted: »

    I was also thinking that someone else is the leader. It's still interesting that Violet says nonetheless.

  • edited September 2018

    Yeah you're probably right.

    I think in context she meant leader of the scouting party, not leader of the entire group.

  • Well if they didn't talk about their lives then how did Lily know that Christa knew Clementine?

    Onmens posted: »

    That's assuming they got together and talked about their lives. I don't recall either of them being very chatty or open.

  • What are you talking about? When has it ever been established that Lilly knew about Christa?

    Spainguy82 posted: »

    Well if they didn't talk about their lives then how did Lily know that Christa knew Clementine?

  • I'm a bit confused too. I never claimed Lilly knew anything about Christa's past.
    You can follow a doctrine without knowing it's exact origins.

    Spainguy82 posted: »

    Well if they didn't talk about their lives then how did Lily know that Christa knew Clementine?

  • edited September 2018

    Now you've got me wondering if Christa would've been the better choice for the adaptational villiany.

    Honestly, while I understand the desire to have both in an easily justified/handwaved way, the whole idea of having Lily and Christa return in connection with each other often felt like trying too hard to get more nostalgia and/or address "loose ends."

  • Which is a little weird, considering Violet wasn't there the day Sophie & Minerva were given up and the more generous backstory is that Lily wasn't actually a part of the The Deltas for very long since she didn't seem to know who Marlon actually was.

    NexusFire posted: »

    Actually.. Violet says that Lilly is the leader of the raiders. Skip to 57:23.

  • And you think that because...?

    @Szpak Tbh i had the idea that Christa would be the leader of the group that Lilly is against, and that we would maybe have to chose a side later on, idk :b

    Yeah, that's the more obvious scenario, for better or worse.

    MaxTheFax posted: »

    The leader is a guy called Michael I think,

  • I could see a twist being the group Lily is fighting is actually Christa's to be honest. Lilly and Christa never met so to Clem it would be weird, but for them it wouldnt.

    also inb4 Lilly's group is actually the good group and are fighting the people who burned down the Ranch or something.

  • edited September 2018

    Its not like Violet knows where Lilly's placement in the Delta is. Im sure shes high up, but it seems implied theres someone higher than her with Abel constantly saying they have a job to do. (as in they have to do this job for someone else, their higher up)

    NexusFire posted: »

    Actually.. Violet says that Lilly is the leader of the raiders. Skip to 57:23.

  • It's still interesting that Violet says it like she knows that for sure.

    Poogers555 posted: »

    Its not like Violet knows where Lilly's placement in the Delta is. Im sure shes high up, but it seems implied theres someone higher than her

  • We've been over this. In the context it's very likely she merely meant leader of the scouting/raiding party, not leader of the whole thing.

    How else should she refer to Lilly? "Hey so it seems like you and the woman that was leading the raiders we saw but may or may not be in charge of their entire group know each other. What's up with that?"

    Lilly was leading the scouting and raiding party, ergo she is referred to their leader and most people understand that "leader" only extends to the raiders that were seen, it doesn't mean we think she's leading the entire Delta.

    NexusFire posted: »

    It's still interesting that Violet says it like she knows that for sure.

  • I know I know, I just think it's interesting that they included that in the game the way they did. I know that Vi probably means it in the way you said it.

    We've been over this. In the context it's very likely she merely meant leader of the scouting/raiding party, not leader of the whole thing.

  • because I do :)

    DabigRG posted: »

    And you think that because...? @Szpak Tbh i had the idea that Christa would be the leader of the group that Lilly is against, and that

  • He said that "what if this was all based on Christas experience with Clem" for Why Lilly and Abel said things like "you get people killed, etc." Lilly wouldn't know about a Christas experience without talking to her. I'm not saying it's happening in the game but I'm this canon that the topic creator made.

    What are you talking about? When has it ever been established that Lilly knew about Christa?

  • It's an interesting idea, both characters suffered extreme loss,both was presumed dead,they both missed meeting by such a short distance , ..

    Wait is there a slight chance Lilly could of met with Christa and omid when she stole the rv ? And drove on that direction but saw the bridge was out

  • Considering Telltale planned for her to come back in it as soon as they caught whiff of being screwed on the tie-in deal, it's possible.

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    It's an interesting idea, both characters suffered extreme loss,both was presumed dead,they both missed meeting by such a short distance , .

  • What tie-in deal are you talking about?

    DabigRG posted: »

    Considering Telltale planned for her to come back in it as soon as they caught whiff of being screwed on the tie-in deal, it's possible.

  • The plan for Lily to be the origin story for Lily Caul from the comics.

    What tie-in deal are you talking about?

  • Oh that, yeah. That was unfortunate. I wonder why Kirkman did that. I wonder if he just forgot or couldn't make his story work without screwing that origin.

    DabigRG posted: »

    The plan for Lily to be the origin story for Lily Caul from the comics.

  • edited October 2018

    The fact that the tie-in deal with Lily fell through still bugs the shit out of me even to this day.

    DabigRG posted: »

    The plan for Lily to be the origin story for Lily Caul from the comics.

  • As far as I remember being told, Caul's dad was already dead anyway, so I really don't get it either.
    With that said, it also didn't bother me in the near slightest.

    @LordCthulhu-13 The fact that the tie-in deal with Lily fell through still bugs the shit out of me even to this day.

    Honestly, I think Telltale lowkey prepared for it anyway, especially going by the audition sheet. And like I said, Gavin Hammon confirmed they were ready to jump on having her return as soon as they suspected that would happen.

    But then Suffer the Children eventually happened. :unamused:

    Oh that, yeah. That was unfortunate. I wonder why Kirkman did that. I wonder if he just forgot or couldn't make his story work without screwing that origin.

  • I like to pretend that comic Lily and Telltale Lily are the same anyway even though I know it isn't canon. Mostly it's because I just don't like the novels. I mean, did The Governor's backstory really need to be told in such a convoluted way? I don't believe that it did, but hey, that's just me.

    DabigRG posted: »

    As far as I remember being told, Caul's dad was already dead anyway, so I really don't get it either. With that said, it also didn't bother

  • I never read them and I was happy with the headcanon that Lilly went on to join the governor and eventually kill him. Now that she's turned in TFS though, it throws a damper on that. Not impossible, but makes it less likely, I suppose.

    I like to pretend that comic Lily and Telltale Lily are the same anyway even though I know it isn't canon. Mostly it's because I just don't

  • I wouldn't know.

    @Hillbilly_Dave Now that she's turned in TFS though, it throws a damper on that.

    Among other things.

    I like to pretend that comic Lily and Telltale Lily are the same anyway even though I know it isn't canon. Mostly it's because I just don't

  • It could still work. She was able to escape the prison even with the zombies swarming in, made her way north, and joined Delta at some point. Unless Lily herself goes into detail about what happened to her, that is my headcanon.

    I never read them and I was happy with the headcanon that Lilly went on to join the governor and eventually kill him. Now that she's turned in TFS though, it throws a damper on that. Not impossible, but makes it less likely, I suppose.

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