If you forgive AJ, can you forgive Lilly?
They both did the same thing, but different reasons.
Have you forgiven AJ at all?
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They both did the same thing, but different reasons.
Have you forgiven AJ at all?
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AJ was wrong, but he's just a kid growing up in the fucked up world. He doesn't know much better and he made a grave error, but it's not like Marlon didn't do bad things especially to Clem (basically his Mom) so its easy to see why he did that. You can also make him show regret.
Lilly however, had no regrets with killing Carley and would have had no regrets killing Ben. She only had a regret with killing Doug because he wasn't the intended target. And she's apart of a group of raiders who steal people and turn them against their will against another group who have seemingly done nothing to the kids (for all we know).
No. Lilly is not forgivable.
It's not the same thing. Marlon deserved to die, and Carley was innocent. AJ did literally nothing wrong.
I forgave AJ because he was at least remorseful and showed that he’s at least willing to help in some way. Lilly on the other hand is a different story.
Clementine literally defines what classifies as murder though if you tell him that killing Marlon was wrong, so AJ definitely did something bad.
Not according to my Clem
Murder’s a murder, doesn’t matter who thinks it isn’t ?
Some people deserve to die. That's just how it is.
That’s leaning more on the side of justice, however justice can still be murder
Then so be it. AJ was justified in murdering Marlon.
I have forgiven AJ. I understood why he shot Marlon but I didn't condone it and I was honest with him in Episode 2. What he did was murder. Marlon did not deserve to die.
As for Lilly I am angered by what she did. Killing Mitch, getting children to fight her battles and the way she spoke about Lee. But if the opportunity to forgive her arises then I will forgive her, but that doesn't mean I will ignore the horrible stuff she has done. Hope that makes sense
If we had the option to kill Marlon as Clem, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Marlon 100% deserved it. Homocide and accessory to 2 kidnappings will get you killed in many countries.
It's not the same, but I'd forgive her... if she weren't enslaving teenagers.
In the US, you’re more than likely going to get a bit of jail sentence for it. Which is what I was planning to do to Marlon
AJ is six years old, guys.
He didn't murder an innocent bystander.
He murdered a human trafficker that just got done killing someone, tried to kill the only person who's ever cared for him for all his life who essentially is his mother -- without second thought, then lie on said person, threatened everyone at gunpoint, and still tried to kill Clem.
I see Marlon more like Ben. A coward making a deal with raiders to save his friends.
Which ironically makes you kinda like Lilly for wanting him dead.
And in the zombie apocalypse, people get put down for way less. Courts don't exist. The stipulation of "he surrendered" is sorta meaningless given the context.
Yes
Lilly is far worse than AJ, fam
AJ killed a guy who traded members of his group to raiders and was preparing to do the same to him and Clem. A guy who killed Brody during a fit of rage and then left Clementine to die. A guy who lied that Clem killed Brody and then pointed a gun at the entire group and tried convincing them to kill Clem. Marlon fucking deserved it.
Lilly killed an innocent woman who did nothing except call her a name. Then she tried kidnapping the entire boarding school and turning them into soldiers. Then she tried killing Clementine and AJ.
Fuck Marlon and fuck Lilly. I hope AJ gives Lilly the exact same treatment if not worse.
I would only forgive her if she showed that she was willing to change.
Dammit, now you made me reconsider if should justify AJ or not. (I have to replay Ep1 and 2 to get my Wellington scar)
NO. Ajs a 6 year old, although I feel he didnt do the right thing, he is just a kid and literally didnt know any better
Lilly is a grown woman who shot Carly for no reason and killed my boy Mitch and ruined clems new family by kidnapping 3 members and burning our home. Did I mention she shot at clem and aj during that forest scene
3 4 strikes you're out.
I exiled Lilly because she was too dangerous. I wanted to kill her when she was acting paranoid but when I found out she was right and she did save you and backed you up I let that go but she kills Carley for running her mouth and had to let her go. She was too dangerous at that point. I thought that was the most fair punishment. I didn't have any care for Carley at that point though, just hated losing a soldier. As for AJ I let him know he did a very bad thing and that he needs to learn of the consequences no matter how harsh it turns out and I also just like exiling Lilly took it upon myself that AJ and Clementine had to get exiled it's only fair.
Actually my choice on what to do with Marlon was the same thing exile him.
So I don't hold a grudge for either of them. AJ is a child and it's Clem's responsibility as his mother so she needs to show him.
The better question is do I ever forgive Larry for punching Lee in the face after Lee saved his ass to kill him via Walkers? Absolutely not. If I had other options to kill Larry even before the salt lick I would have taken them. It made absolutely no sense why Kenny and Lee didn't just up and kill Larry after seeing what he did.
Yes I can.
It's entirely different circumstances. AJ is a small child, still mentally developing. He doesn't fully understand the difference between people who do bad things and monsters. Lilly is a grown ass woman who knows better. There's no comparison here, at all.
Damn I posted this morning. Loving the discussion!
AJ and Lilly both killed someone who wasn't a threat any more, and that is murder by Clem's own words.
Lilly killed Mitch in self defence, I mean he ran up to her, it was instinct and she stopped him from turning.
Hopefully in episode 3 we get a better understanding of why she is with the Delta people.
But at this current state I would forgive her.
Can't really call that self defence when she started the fight in the first place
Your Clem, my Clem, Obama's Clem.
It doesn't matter, AJ's a murderer by definition.
As Clem states "When you kill someone who is no longer a threat - that's murder"
Basically I can't forgive Lilly because there is nothing to forgive, Lilly is like that because she just is. She isn't strong and she's a killer. I just won't associate with her.
AJ is Clem's baby so has to teach him.
Like I said before, it doesn't matter if it was murder. Marlon deserved it, and AJ was justified.
AJ:
Marlon deserved it but he should have been judged by everyone before getting his brains blown out.
It's like a killer locked up at the police station awaiting trial. A cop comes in and shoots him in the head. Murder. Did he deserve it ? Probably but he still should have gotten a trial.
If we don't teach AJ to regret it and tell him that "It's ok, he deserved it" he could just go around shooting people because in his eyes they deserve it.
I'm willing to bet money that based on what you tell him in Ep 2 regarding Marlon, it will affect if he kills someone or not (My prediction would be Lilly)
A trial? There's no more judges. If people would have voted, it wouldn't have been a fair trial because everybody there knew Marlon and Brody. It's better to just blast his fucking brains out tbh.
And who cares if he kills Lilly?
And voting to kick Clem out was fair ?
Lilly was just an example
The whole "Who cares if he kills X" mentality is wrong.
He could snap at Clem hence the "You won't always be able to tell me no" line.
YES
voting to kick clem out was fair, her kid murdered one of their friends and was she (determinately) acted like a piece of shit from the moment she arrived there,im surprised they allowed her back in and helped AJ
But it wasn't fair because Marlon was their friend, of course they would kick her out
Nope
well they were biased since Marlon was their friend,so the vote wasnt fair but kickin her out was fair
) you go in someones house,act like a bitch and kill someone? hell yeah u deserve to get kicked out,
(if that makes sense
no voting required,they didnt do anything unfair by kicking her out,
shit they even helped them find the like road or whatever the fuck they were lookin for and made sure they were alive when they left them out there
So voting what to do with Marlon wouldn't be fair but that's what should have happened.
Voting to kick Clem out wasn't fair but it still happened.
See ? It doesn't matter if it's fair or not