Episodic Adventures Killed the Group-Player Adventure Experience

Just thinking about this today. When we were young my dad used to play games like The Journeyman Project, Riven, Sam & Max, Monkey Island and such with me, my brother, and uncle (in various combinations). One thing that was so great about it was that the game was long, difficult, and we had more than one mind working on stuff. It was a really fun experience. I just realised that with episodic adventures it's not as fun. The games are shorter, easier, and less satisfying when you're playing in a group. Not near as fun as a full-length harder title.

I guess in this day and age people mostly play games by themselves. This is evident in the way games are made nowadays right down to the way the gameplay and interface are designed. Any multiplaying capabilities are approached by simply adding an online multi-playing feature. And even then each player controls his or her own character or interface. There is no concept of multiple people playing on the same computer controlling the same character/interface/or whatever anymore.

That's a little sad to me...

Comments

  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    Maybe its that you're not living with your family anymore? Maybe you're just older...

    I've heard from a surprising number of friends who played through Tales, Wallace, and Strong Bad with their kids (generally their kids are 5-12). They say their kids are excited every month that a new one comes out and it becomes an event. I think that's pretty awesome. I haven't played through an adventure game with a friend since a Grim Fandango re-play we did in college, 6-7 years ago, but that doesn't mean I assume nobody does it anymore.


    We've talked before about the idea of supporting "multiplayer" in our games, where friends could connect to the same game, over XBLA or PSN, and "pass the controller" between players, with everyone connected on voice chat. We're mostly joking when we talk about that though. That would be a lot of work for a pretty weird feature. It would be cool though!
  • edited April 2010
    That's not a weird feature - it's an awesome feature!!! It must happen
  • edited April 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    We've talked before about the idea of supporting "multiplayer" in our games, where friends could connect to the same game, over XBLA or PSN, and "pass the controller" between players, with everyone connected on voice chat. We're mostly joking when we talk about that though. That would be a lot of work for a pretty weird feature. It would be cool though!
    You know, while a singleplayer adventure with a "pass the controller" feature would be kind of silly, an inherently multiplayer adventure game could be really cool. Valve is making Portal co-op, so it's not like games heavy on puzzles can't inherently support multiplayer. In fact, they made the co-op puzzles harder and more complex, because the co-op players can bounce ideas off each other. It's the major selling point of of Portal 2 for me(and I don't really think Portal needs a sequel).

    It's a cool idea, and one that people should think about.
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    Maybe its that you're not living with your family anymore?

    This is true for me at least. Age and the episodic format have nothing to do with it.

    Video games, movies and television were usually a family bonding event until I moved out of home. My bros would play the action-oriented games while I watched, and I'd play the puzzle-oriented games while they watched. I greatly prefer the shared experience - things are still much the same whenever I go back to visit.

    I guess a lot of families have moved away from the "home hub" model of one TV and one computer, and towards greater isolation (a TV in every bedroom etc), so there is less shared time. I think that's sad, but then I'm lucky enough to get on really well with my family and recognise that not everyone is the same.
    You know, while a singleplayer adventure with a "pass the controller" feature would be kind of silly, an inherently multiplayer adventure game could be really cool..

    Pilot Program candidate? :D
  • edited April 2010
    Personally, I've always played by myself. A lot of it probably has to do with the age difference between myself and my brothers. (10 & 8 years older than me). When they were teenagers we had an Atari 5200. I was too young to play with them. I would occasionally play Missile Command but I don't think it was with anyone else.

    My family didn't have a computer until I was in 8th grade. By then my brothers had moved out, and my parents were never interested in games themselves, so it was just me. That said, I did used to play with my cousin (my age) at his house, because they had a computer before we did. But, I don't miss those days, mainly because it was usually me watching him play.

    Long story short (too late); episodic doesn't bother me.
  • ShauntronShauntron Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    You know, while a singleplayer adventure with a "pass the controller" feature would be kind of silly, an inherently multiplayer adventure game could be really cool. Valve is making Portal co-op, so it's not like games heavy on puzzles can't inherently support multiplayer. In fact, they made the co-op puzzles harder and more complex, because the co-op players can bounce ideas off each other. It's the major selling point of of Portal 2 for me(and I don't really think Portal needs a sequel).

    It's a cool idea, and one that people should think about.

    I never played it, but didn't Uru the Myst multiplayer game have certain puzzles that were multiplayer only?
  • edited April 2010
    Jerry (Tycho) from Penny Arcade has posted a few times about playing Tales with his son -- once involved playing "pantomime Tales" at the park:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/8/7/

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/9/11/

    Probably not the sort of co-op solving being discussed, but cool nonetheless.
  • edited April 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    We've talked before about the idea of supporting "multiplayer" in our games, where friends could connect to the same game, over XBLA or PSN, and "pass the controller" between players, with everyone connected on voice chat. We're mostly joking when we talk about that though. That would be a lot of work for a pretty weird feature. It would be cool though!

    Ooh, do! Brings back fond memories of Shivers 2's "live hint" system. (tangent: There's a license for you guys to secure. A 5 part horror adventure anthology under the "Shivers" title would be glorious.)
  • edited April 2010
    Well, I must be weird, but my fondest memories are of game I played alone, because they weren't ruined by my brothers :p

    This being said, I played the Penal Zone with my husband and it was great. First, he could explain the jokes to me, and even for those I understood, I don't tend to laugh when I'm alone, so with him next to me the game was funnier in a way.

    And with his busy schedule, we could never get around to playing a game together if we didn't know we'd finish it in a couple of days.

    So I find the episodic format perfect for that, personally.
  • edited April 2010
    Yeah, I guess I could be wrong. Though, I gave my dad Sam & Max Season One to try out and he didn't like it at all. He actually said "That's not adventure." And my uncle lost interest in TMI by the 4th chapter. So that plays a part in my sadness, I guess.

    A multiplayer funciton like that on the XBox would actually be neat. I wonder how many would utilise it, though. And it would only do well if you were all playing it for the first time. After that there wouldn't really be any point.

    And Shivers is a Sierra title so I doubt TTG would pick it up since they seem to be so against Sierra IPs. But you never know.
  • edited April 2010
    Games in general are easier now then 10 years ago. Thats partly due to skill levels increasing, but its largely down to the way people see games now. I see games as an experiance, like a movie, or a book. When i buy a game now, i expect to be able to complete it, without being stuck for lengthy periods.

    Imagine if you were watching a film, and had to pause it, and wait for an indefinate period of time whilst you tried to figure out the plot so far. It just doens't happen, as it would hinder the experiance. The same applies to some extent with games, for me at least. To prove my point that it's not just Down to skill level increasing, go and play a game from the 90's you haven't played before, or even one you have: Still difficult.

    As for the episodic nature: You could try waiting for the full game to be released (i.e. chapter 5), before downloading. That way, you can play the whole game fluently (kinda), and you wouldn't be waiting any longer for the full game than you would have been otherwise.
  • edited April 2010
    Shauntron wrote: »
    I never played it, but didn't Uru the Myst multiplayer game have certain puzzles that were multiplayer only?

    Uru Live (it's back up now, and free, if you didn't know) has only one or two puzzles in the main quest that required a second player, and quite a few that were easier or went more smoothly if you had more people. It also has a couple of multiplayer-centric minigame-type puzzles designed for large groups, plus a couple of rather large-scale puzzles that seemed to be designed for the entire community to figure out as a group, which was pretty cool.

    One thing that you guys could do, at least for Wii versions, is to enable a second player cursor. Off the top of my head, I know Mario Galaxy, LostWinds, and Zack & Wiki do that. In the case of a Telltale type game it would probably make the most sense if the second cursor could just point at stuff and not interact directly, but it could work either way.
  • edited April 2010
    I've played Sam & Max season 1, Wallace & Gromit, Tales from Monkey Island, Bone, and The Devil's Playhouse, all of them with my sister.
  • edited April 2010
    Yup, I have played Sam and Max, Tales of Monkey Island with my wife, and I played Wallace and Gromit with my daughter.

    Here's what I have noticed: go back and play Secret of Monkey Island or any of the old Sierra or LucasArts games. They actually only take 2-3 hours to beat too. It is just at age 31, I am way better at solving puzzles than I was when I was 12. Plus, all the adventure games today have the past as a back-drop. We have grown up playing adventure games and we "get" the way they work now. Back then, it was a relatively new thing, and you had no paradigm for how to play in your head already.
  • edited April 2010
    When I first started adventure games, I would tag team with my brother and my neighbor--it was great fun! I still do sometimes with my brother, especially with Escape from Monkey Island, I play until Monkey Kombat, and then he takes over, cause he loves that part.

    Though as much fun as it was with adventure games, I feel it was slightly more productive with action games where there was usually a definitive point we would switch off (when someone died). There were a whole lot of arguments over how long a turn lasted with adventures.
  • edited April 2010
    I played Sam and Max seasons 1 and 2 with my cousins.
  • edited April 2010
    Friar wrote: »
    Imagine if you were watching a film, and had to pause it, and wait for an indefinate period of time whilst you tried to figure out the plot so far. It just doens't happen, as it would hinder the experiance.
    Hey, I didn't like Memento either, but that doesn't mean it's inherently flawed or that liking it isn't a valid opinion.
  • edited April 2010
    Memento was awesome.
  • edited April 2010
    You know, while a singleplayer adventure with a "pass the controller" feature would be kind of silly, an inherently multiplayer adventure game could be really cool.
    It already exists: three of the Mortadelo y Filemón (Fred & Jeff, Clever & Smart...) games-"seasons" from Alcachofa Soft are multiplayer through Internet or Lan. A player takes control over Mortadelo and the other over Filemón. Some puzzles can be solved only by one (or the other) of them, some other puzzles need both of them to be solved, some puzzles can be solved by no matter who of them.
    Alas, only one of these games had international distribution, the other two are Spanish only.
  • edited May 2010
    Honestly i don't see how this is related to the episodic format at all.

    You could more complain about less complex puzzles and smaller worlds but when there is time, of which we have less these days, we still come together and play a game together. One person plays and the other person(s) watch from behind and think about solutions or discuss certain things. Adventuring from behind can be very rexaling.
  • edited May 2010
    I guess my point was that it wouldn't be as fun or as satisfying (though still fun and satisfying) as a full-length game because they're so short and there's always a cliffhanger. I guess what I meant was that you can't really compare them. Sure you can play a whole season straight through, but that seems a little disjointed especially when each episode is so different from the next episode (except TMI).
  • edited May 2010
    Hey, I didn't like Memento either, but that doesn't mean it's inherently flawed or that liking it isn't a valid opinion.
    Memento? Never heard of it.
  • edited May 2010
    Movie about a guy with short-term memory loss acquired during a break-in and he and his wife was attacked. He spends the movie looking for his wife's murderer. But the movie plays backwards. It starts at the end of the story and works it's way backwards so you see what brought him to that point...so you see how it feels for him to have short-term memory loss. It's great. I loved it. Directed by Christopher Nolan.

    Still looking for the special edition DVD which you can use to watch the movie in chronological order.

    Hey, an adventure game like that would be neat...
  • edited May 2010
    The second ToMI came out I forced my mum and dad to sit down and play with me as that it was we did with every other MI released. Annoyingly dad kept saying 'no. Let's not play it for two hours straight. We don't need to rush through it.' Where as I was just eager to find out what happens next! Naturally I won the argument and we played every night till the chapters were completed!

    Now i'm playing season 2 of S&M with mum. It's good.

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think having the game be episodic affects playing in a group.
  • edited May 2010
    this is actually a great point of interest for me, how do i bring my friends into the world of Sam & Max or Monkey Island? People just watching someone play a game isn't terribly exciting, but i showed all my friends Sam & Max Nearly Saved X-Mas and they absolutely loved it. WE NEED MORE FULL LENGTH MACHINIMA!!!
  • I have fond memories of playing Myst with my family, usually my dad. It was fun to try and solve the puzzles together. Lately I've been a bit disappointed with how easy TTG's puzzles are, but the story and humor are excellent. There are some other adventure games with more difficult puzzles - I love getting stuck!
  • edited May 2010
    This thread title sounds like a Weird Al song if he was even more white and nerdy.

    Played Mario Kart on the SNES in Ninety Two
    Throwing banana peels on the road to get through
    If I was young it...
    Oh, I can't keep this up.
  • edited May 2010
    Sometimes my little sister and brother watch me play Telltale games. My sister even played a bit of "Night of the Raving Dead" since she loves Jurgen (and the driving game) Personally I've had a lot more fun playing when they're around because we all get a chance to laugh at the jokes or help eachother solve puzzles.
  • edited May 2010
    I've played the free Lincoln Must Die! with a friend. He totally can't do adventures, so he was stuck on pretty much everything. In the end I usually had to spill the solution. Hard to imagine. Okay, S&M1 and 2 where harder than what TTG makes now, but still...
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