You're just embarrassing yourself.
Oh no, I'm ruining my image on a dying forum! My life is officially over!
You can't have r… moreational discussions with anyone that disagrees with you.
I do it all the time.
Also, this is the last time i'm replying. this isn't entertaining anymore.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable. Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable ( Even if not moral ). She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch ) and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine. It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ). For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folks really bad without having empathy and thinking that they also suffered and lost everything just like him, or forgave Jane for proving a point and manipulating Clem to have her all to herself ( AJ not included ) while getting someone killed, then Lilly is redeemable.
Killing a woman who seemingly left a baby to did, and did at least put him at risk ofi i due to not attending to him to show Clem. "IF I PROVOKE KENNY BY SAYING BABY IS DEAD CUZ OF ME DITCHING HIM, HE WILL BE MAD."
I cut off Sarita's arm, she got devoured. Kenny forgives that. It shows he can understand a wrongly executed plan to help someome from Jane's fucking lie. Hell if it were me, I'd kill her too. She puts Clem in a spot TO kill Kenny to save her. That is manipulative because, come on, Jane had to know one on one she would lose. She knows how to size things up.
Lilly broke into the kid's home. They were defending themselves. Lilly has no rights here. She is an intruder. A criminal. This is premeditated. She is a killer, kidnapper, and she uses child soldiers to do her dirty work.
Huh, I guess you think Solidus Snake and Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear are heroes too.
No wait, they were the bad guys...thats why I had to kill them.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable. Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable (… more Even if not moral ). She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch ) and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine. It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ). For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folk… [view original content]
Oh God, the bad part of saying the truth/facts are that Kennyfans will appear to defend him without its need.
Metal Gear doesn't take place in an apocalyptical world, your comparison makes no sense. In a TWD world people wouldn't give a shit about morals and they would do 100% much more worse stuff than the TWD media has on it. Also, we do say '' kids '', but only 2 kids on the school aren't older than 12 ( AJ and Tenn ) and for them to have survived 7+ years into this world it's probably obvious for Lilly that they aren't incapable and harmless, for the contrary.
Also I don't think they are going to be treated as slaves or anything in Lilly's community other than fighting the other community, but that's just a theory of mine so I'll have to wait.
Killing a woman who seemingly left a baby to did, and did at least put him at risk ofi i due to not attending to him to show Clem. "IF I PR… moreOVOKE KENNY BY SAYING BABY IS DEAD CUZ OF ME DITCHING HIM, HE WILL BE MAD."
I cut off Sarita's arm, she got devoured. Kenny forgives that. It shows he can understand a wrongly executed plan to help someome from Jane's fucking lie. Hell if it were me, I'd kill her too. She puts Clem in a spot TO kill Kenny to save her. That is manipulative because, come on, Jane had to know one on one she would lose. She knows how to size things up.
Lilly broke into the kid's home. They were defending themselves. Lilly has no rights here. She is an intruder. A criminal. This is premeditated. She is a killer, kidnapper, and she uses child soldiers to do her dirty work.
Huh, I guess you think Solidus Snake and Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear are heroes too.
No wait, they were the bad guys...thats why I had to kill them.
Kenny is a man who fucked up a ton. Don't worry. I like him, but I can admit he has some bad calls under his belt.
This is just a man who is a father, looking at what she has implied to have done, and without knowing she lied about AJ being dead, reacting as a father figure should. Upset, angry and unforgiving at a woman who is, to sell her bullshit, is doing her best to imply the worst instead of...y'know...at least setting up a situation where at least it looks more like "Oh God...I was grabbed, he fell...they were coming fast. I couldn't see him in the snow. If I stayed...they would have gotten us both."
If it was done that way...as if to frame it as she had no choice...and Kenny lost it...I'd have shot him, no lie. I'd likely ditch Jane afterwards and in future replays use occ knowledge to never pick her side again, but yeah. She did a shit job of trying to look like the good guy. What she said was vague and half assed and she was more driven to prove to Clem pissing him off so he'd attack her would result in that.
If she did a better job of it...it could have been Lee losing his shit and I would shoot.
And yeah it applies. My examples were of two people using children to make soldiers to fight other humans. They had altruistic goals. "Made them into men." who could fight back, save thier third world cities from other people im situations resembling in form what a war between people in the zombie apocalypse might look like. And they were evil for it. Just like Lilly, but I admit....there could be more, but it would take a lot to hand wave things. A whole lot.
Who gives a damn if some of them are near adult age. This isn't the draft, it is a home invasion with the intent on kidnapping, theft of supplies and worse. Who cares at this point. Lilly and them are no better than their opponents, possibly worse.
And yeah, i know it can be worse. Who said their foes play fair? Who says the girls they took before are not for more than fighting?
Carver wanted to make a haven for people, but ask the dead how that worked out? Reggie I think would have something to say.
She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
I mean, technically.
I think she may have even been intended to be a category unto herself, but didn't really get to be due to how less-detailed/consistent the gameplay/story is and the obvious preference for the Angry Dad types.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable. Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable (… more Even if not moral ). She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch ) and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine. It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ). For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folk… [view original content]
I like Lilly too. I do feel bad for season 1 Lilly. She tried to do so much without time to properly grieve for her Dad...and Kenny, then guy I was said to rise to defend, more than likely stirred the pot, with at best something like "Look, I'm fucking sorry, ok? But I couldn't take the goddamned risk. Do you think he'd wanna get up and eat his kids face off?" Or something.
But that was a different Lilly, a different time. Kenny grew to be unstable, but he was still in there. Jane...she tried but her paranoid fear of raising a baby fatherless in the zombie Apocalypse made her pick the cowards way out. Lilly broke so bad Walter White would call her out on it, and unless she proves to be a pawn with a gun to her head, well I will still like her...but I have to acknowledge her fall.
Lilly is a good character. I can like her in spite of her choices because she is a good example of someone losing their way...or worse...finding it.
It is that love to hate thing. As a person, she is scum right now. But as a video game character she is compelling.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable.
It's no more laughable than you guys talking like Lilly is a good hearted caring person despite the game telling you otherwise.
Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable ( Even if not moral ).
Even killing someone over an insult?
She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch )
She invaded his home in an attempt to kidnap him, she didn't think he or any of the kids would come quietly did she?
and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine.
Her actions in Season 1 and the latest episode of Season 4 CLEARLY shows the opposite.
It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ).
She tried to kill Clem multiple times, threatened AJ's safety, attacked her home in an attempt to kidnap her friends, killed a friend and left the school vulnerable to walker attack. You think the minor things you mentioned made a difference to her actions? you think Clem will forget what she did because of some meaningless hair clips?
For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
Even if there's a bigger villain, doesn't excuse her actions, she didn't even try to explain her situation, she just went straight kidnapping and manipulation. Say what you want about Kenny but he would never stoop so low into harming children.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folks really bad without having empathy and thinking that they also suffered and lost everything just like him, or forgave Jane for proving a point and manipulating Clem to have her all to herself ( AJ not included ) while getting someone killed, then Lilly is redeemable.
Let's remember, Jane was not innocent, she was a troubled, unstable bitch with suicidal tendencies that put a baby in danger for her own selfish gain. Don't forget, she tried to kill him. And the people he also hurt (I presume you're talking about Mike, Bonnie, Arvo), like Jane, we're not so innocent either. Kenny didn't need to redeem himself because he didn't leave on bad terms unlike Lilly. Lilly had her chance at redemption after what she did and she threw it out the window with what she did in STC, giving her a redemption arc would be lazy and forced after TT did a good job establishing her as a villain.
Oh God, the bad part of saying the truth/facts are that Kennyfans will appear to defend him without its need.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable. Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable (… more Even if not moral ). She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch ) and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine. It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ). For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folk… [view original content]
And I'm not saying she didn't knew right from wrong, she snapped that is the point in her mind she believed she did something right thing even when she was pushed against the RV. It's because she snapped and her grieve DID take over what was right from wrong and everything that has happened along the way didn’t help and Lilly from S4 is clearly different from S1.
Than why bother? Why bother shooting Carley in the face because she believed that Carley was a problem for the group wouldn’t that not be contradicting it? (WE lost everything by meaning the group not I lost everything but WE) you say that she probably didn’t need the hair thingy’s herself and she probably was obligated? but there is nothing to confirm this as far as we know now. SHE gave Clem those things out of her own will.
Why be shocked that Lee shot a innocent woman on the streets in EP3 and say it’s better than letting her suffer?
Why did she apologise to Lee when you enter her room in EP3 when she screamed at them? (she even says she is a fucking mess right now).
Lee said in Episode 2 ‘’just stay here and keep Clementine save’’ which she did and in those 5 minutes all of this was over (the farm shit), she even tries to shoot the St John person if you try to help her save her dad.
You didn’t answer my question. If she attacked the man because he was at fault for Larry’s dead than why not do the same thing when you help Kenny kill her father? Was she waiting for Lee to die? Why does she bother doing it only when you help her? She did it cause you helped her.
Why only help when you help her by that logic she should just help us.
Fine I think I can agree with the smilling.
Yes but doesn’t it say something about Kenny here that we even HAVE to convince him? I wanna point out before going any further that I like Kenny and Lilly.
I'm not trying to excuse her that's what I said. I simply understand where she is coming from, beside the every person is different argument… more, she never felt appreciated for what she did because of all the arguments against her and being under constant stress of her father's well being.
She started losing it after her father died, does it make it oke to point fingers at people NO.
Her grief didn't take away her ability to know right from wrong. She didn't seem to feel guilty for what she did, even 8 years later she didn't seem to regret it.
No she is not the same person from S1 the Lilly we see now joined a group of people that will attack and kidnap children by force if they have to, she joined a raiders group that she clearly would have disagreed with in S1
Lilly in S1 didn't give a shit about anyone, her murder & betrayal clearly proves this.
she didn't even want to steal food from a strangers car in EP2 u… [view original content]
All of your comments are low key butt hurt blind over I saying Kenny also had mistakes that for a sane and non biased person would be difficult to forgive. I never said Jane is innocent as I also used her as an example, so yeah, points for the nonsensical Kennyfans.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable.
It's no more laughable than you guys talking lik… moree Lilly is a good hearted caring person despite the game telling you otherwise.
Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable ( Even if not moral ).
Even killing someone over an insult?
She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch )
She invaded his home in an attempt to kidnap him, she didn't think he or any of the kids would come quietly did she?
and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine.
Her actions in Season 1 and the latest episode of Season 4 CLEARLY shows the opposite.
It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ).
She tried to kill Clem multiple times, threatened AJ's safety, attacked her home i… [view original content]
And I'm not saying she didn't knew right from wrong, she snapped that is the point in her mind she believed she did something right thing even when she was pushed against the RV. It's because she snapped and her grieve DID take over what was right from wrong and everything that has happened along the way didn’t help and Lilly from S4 is clearly different from S1.
Whatever excuse she had, whatever her reasoning is, is not gonna make her look good and the fact she didn't regret makes her even more bad. S1 & S4 Lilly have similarities, they both don't give a shit about anyone, both are selfish, both are cold hearted and both are murderers.
Than why bother? Why bother shooting Carley in the face because she believed that Carley was a problem for the group wouldn’t that not be contradicting it? (WE lost everything by meaning the group not I lost everything but WE)
She had it out for Carley since Episode 1 (the face she makes when Carley calls Kenny boss indicates this) and used the traitor excuse to go after her. She says "WE" but words and actions are different things, was she thinking "We" or was she thinking "I" when she stole the RV?
you say that she probably didn’t need the hair thingy’s herself and she probably was obligated? but there is nothing to confirm this as far as we know now. SHE gave Clem those things out of her own will.
The St Johns built Clem a swing out of their own will, but that wont change the fact that they're murderous cannibals that wanted to kill Clem same it way it wont change the fact Lilly is a selfish murderer that would abandon Clem if given the chance. Just because she was friendly to her, doesn't mean the hair thingies would bond them for life.
Why be shocked that Lee shot a innocent woman on the streets in EP3 and say it’s better than letting her suffer?
Her opinion wont change whether you let the woman suffer or not. Like I said before, she's a hypocrite. She was willing to do the same in EP1 when she refused to help Lee, Clem & Kenny's family out to be devoured and goes off on Carley for saving them.
Why did she apologise to Lee when you enter her room in EP3 when she screamed at them? (she even says she is a fucking mess right now).
Just because she apologised, doesn't make her a good friend. She was irrational, hot headed and wouldn't listen to anyone.
Lee said in Episode 2 ‘’just stay here and keep Clementine save’’ which she did and in those 5 minutes all of this was over (the farm shit), she even tries to shoot the St John person if you try to help her save her dad.
Watching her for 5 minutes when there was no danger present doesn't make her babysitter of the year.
You didn’t answer my question. If she attacked the man because he was at fault for Larry’s dead than why not do the same thing when you help Kenny kill her father? Was she waiting for Lee to die? Why does she bother doing it only when you help her? She did it cause you helped her.
I know she would help if you help her that one time but this just means they're even, this isn't enough to paint her in a good picture, she has more negativity than positivity.
Why only help when you help her by that logic she should just help us.
And where does helping her lead to in EP3?
Fine I think I can agree with the smilling.
Yes but doesn’t it say something about Kenny here that we even HAVE to convince him? I wanna point out before going any further that I like Kenny and Lilly.
Like I said, Kenny can be a prick at times, he just needs a kick in the ass in the right direction. Could you convince Lilly not to do the things she did in E3? no, she was irrational and wouldn't listen to no one.
And I'm not saying she didn't knew right from wrong, she snapped that is the point in her mind she believed she did something right thing ev… moreen when she was pushed against the RV. It's because she snapped and her grieve DID take over what was right from wrong and everything that has happened along the way didn’t help and Lilly from S4 is clearly different from S1.
Than why bother? Why bother shooting Carley in the face because she believed that Carley was a problem for the group wouldn’t that not be contradicting it? (WE lost everything by meaning the group not I lost everything but WE) you say that she probably didn’t need the hair thingy’s herself and she probably was obligated? but there is nothing to confirm this as far as we know now. SHE gave Clem those things out of her own will.
Why be shocked that Lee shot a innocent woman on the streets in EP3 and say it’s better than letting her suffer?
Why did she apologise to Lee when you ent… [view original content]
So anyone that disagrees with you is butthurt & blind? If anyone seems butthurt & blind it's you, instead of pointing out why you think I'm wrong, you go straight for insults.
over I saying Kenny also had mistakes that for a sane and non biased person would be difficult to forgive.
You'd be happy to forgive Lilly, wouldn't that make you biased?
I never said Jane is innocent as I also used her as an example
You say she's not innocent then why bring her up if you want to make Kenny look bad?
so yeah, points for the nonsensical Kennyfans.
You say Kenny fans are nonsensical but you haven't made any sense yourself.
Congrats for trashing me down babe.
You thrashed yourself with your immature reply. Seem were getting more & more hostile Lilly fans.
All of your comments are low key butt hurt blind over I saying Kenny also had mistakes that for a sane and non biased person would be diffic… moreult to forgive. I never said Jane is innocent as I also used her as an example, so yeah, points for the nonsensical Kennyfans.
Congrats for trashing me down babe.
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth and will milk the conversation till it ends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
All of your comments are low key butt hurt blind
So anyone that disagrees with you is butthurt & blind? If anyone seems butthurt… more & blind it's you, instead of pointing out why you think I'm wrong, you go straight for insults.
over I saying Kenny also had mistakes that for a sane and non biased person would be difficult to forgive.
You'd be happy to forgive Lilly, wouldn't that make you biased?
I never said Jane is innocent as I also used her as an example
You say she's not innocent then why bring her up if you want to make Kenny look bad?
so yeah, points for the nonsensical Kennyfans.
You say Kenny fans are nonsensical but you haven't made any sense yourself.
Congrats for trashing me down babe.
You thrashed yourself with your immature reply. Seem were getting more & more hostile Lilly fans.
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth
Seems like you're saying anything to save face. What truth can't I handle? did I ignore the things Kenny did? no, I even said he can be a prick. I discussed every point you made, you replied to me in a bitter manner and dodged what I wrote which shows that you're the one that can't handle the truth.
and will milk the conversation till it ends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
Then why did you bring up Jane in the first place if she isn't relevant?
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
Maybe don't bring up a "worthless" conversation yourself if you don't want to discuss it. Just an idea.
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth and will milk the conversation till it … moreends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
Yeah I was pretty disappointed too when her return was confirmed. But, after seeing how telltale handled it, I was more than satisfied. Now alls I'm waiting for is the chance. My Clem wasn't that excited either lol. Hoping for either Molly or Christa now. If I remember correctly, there were 2 returning characters confirmed. I'd seen somewhere it'd be Jesus, but I doubt it after hearing this season won't be Richmond related.
Carver gave the crew room and board, totally offsets beating/killing Alvin huh?
Kenny is so mean to Arvo, who: Didnt realize his sistdr turned, ignored any option to hear she was already gone, lead them to the iffy lake that gets 1 or 2 people killed and was leadimg the group towards Clem and co to recover the drugs he hid from his group to save his own ass because...right..JANE is story driven to at least take his sisters medicine, even if you oppose her.
Jane created that scenario and ensured Becca could not get to safety....but Kenny is only bad guy because he...admittedly sometimes a bit too much, was mean to the little sneak.
Just like IceRyder says, they can do good things, but...overall if they are bad, they are bad.
As much as I like to continue this, I'm gonna quite this conversation that has been going on for three days now and won't go anywhere. We both are not gonna change our thought's so can we agree to disagree?
And I'm not saying she didn't knew right from wrong, she snapped that is the point in her mind she believed she did something right thing ev… moreen when she was pushed against the RV. It's because she snapped and her grieve DID take over what was right from wrong and everything that has happened along the way didn’t help and Lilly from S4 is clearly different from S1.
Whatever excuse she had, whatever her reasoning is, is not gonna make her look good and the fact she didn't regret makes her even more bad. S1 & S4 Lilly have similarities, they both don't give a shit about anyone, both are selfish, both are cold hearted and both are murderers.
Than why bother? Why bother shooting Carley in the face because she believed that Carley was a problem for the group wouldn’t that not be contradicting it? (WE lost everything by meaning the group not I lost everything but WE)
She had it out for Carley since Episode 1 (the face she ma… [view original content]
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth and will milk the conversation till it … moreends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
Well you’d have to at least like him a bit due to the support you have been giving him. Anyone who doesn’t like Kenny would not say the things you have but hey if you say so. At least you have the sense to understand his character and not completely jump on the hate wagon because some people are blinded with hate to ever admit the good things about him
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth
Seems like you're saying anythi… moreng to save face. What truth can't I handle? did I ignore the things Kenny did? no, I even said he can be a prick. I discussed every point you made, you replied to me in a bitter manner and dodged what I wrote which shows that you're the one that can't handle the truth.
and will milk the conversation till it ends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
Then why did you bring up Jane in the first place if she isn't relevant?
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
Maybe don't bring up a "worthless" conversation yourself if you don't want to discuss it. Just an idea.
PS, I'm not a Kenny fan.
@IceRyder
As much as I like to continue this, I'm gonna quite this conversation that has been going on for three days now and won't go anywhere. We both are not gonna change our thought's so can we agree to disagree?
No @IceRyder it means I'm the one who realises this shit ain't going anywhere and it hasn't for 3 or 4 days it's just a debate/discussion that goes in circles without an end in sight, milking the cow untill it becomes so repetitive and disgusting that you get sick by it in the very end.
And because of your answer and behavior to a friendly agree to disagree I'm more convinced that you are a child that just wants to be right in the end and have the last word in the discussion.
I took too long to reply to this thread because I realize the depth in which I have to dive in if I am to truly convey how much the statement is 100 percent fact. Like to the level of my hatred of this wretched bitch, I don't think I can put into words. But i'll sum it up with one sentence.
Lilly stole the RV, and left Clementine, the 8 year old helpless girl we all love to die in the undead nightmare that surrounds her with wreckless abandon and no care. Nothing more can be said or needs to be said. It's over.
Lilly is the most useless, heartless, cold piece of horrible, child hating, selfish trash to ever exist in a video game. She left fucking children, CHILDREN in the cold to fend against walkers and stole an RV and this comes moments after assassinating a woman over telling her the facts. She has now started a damn cult that spends its days kidnapping, abusing, shooting and using children for their cause. A militia of kids to fight her wars because she always had to be an authoritarian, power tripping, mental fucking pig. A useless pig.
Even Carver is not as low. Hell, the stranger, Carver, The St. John family. All not as low combined. They were pieces of shit but they had their motives each and every one. St. John family wanted to eat. Simple. Carver wanted his new master race to be strong and was basically hitler culling a herd. The stranger lost everything because of the actions of your group and wanted Clementine to be safe as twisted as he was he had lost his mind. But Lilly? Lilly stepped on people her whole life. Threw the world to the wind for herself. And couldn't care less if Clem or Duck or Kenny or Lee lived or died. Assassinated Carly because she lost an argument? Are you kidding me?
Now you people want to pretend like she's worth saving?
If given the option between stomping her fucking teeth through a concrete curb until her nose bone punctures her brain and theirs nothing but bits of tongue left looking like a ham exploded and eyeballs are stuck to your damn shoe strings or forgiving her. Tell Clem to wear a pair of shoes she don't care about because they're getting ruined with the blood of the wicked.
I find it crazy that people will condemn Kenny and Eleanor forever to never be forgiven as long as they live yet stand on a soap box for Lilly. Get a grip.
No @IceRyder it means I'm the one who realises this shit ain't going anywhere and it hasn't for 3 or 4 days it's just a debate/discussion t… morehat goes in circles without an end in sight, milking the cow untill it becomes so repetitive and disgusting that you get sick by it in the very end.
And because of your answer and behavior to a friendly agree to disagree I'm more convinced that you are a child that just wants to be right in the end and have the last word in the discussion.
Well that's a shame, I really did like having this discussion with you, It's your choice if you don't want to discuss this further. All I can say is that if Season 1 didn't show what a selfish heartless bitch she really, then Season 4 should've confirmed the kind of person she really is.
@IceRyder
As much as I like to continue this, I'm gonna quite this conversation that has been going on for three days now and won't go anywhere. We both are not gonna change our thought's so can we agree to disagree?
I'll admit, I do like Kenny and I'll defend him if he's not in the wrong. As a neutral, if I had a choice between Lilly & Kenny, Kenny will always come first, why? because Lilly is a proven selfish backstabber and Kenny, prick or not, he does stick with you.
PS, I'm not a Kenny fan.
Well you’d have to at least like him a bit due to the support you have been giving him. Anyone who doesn’t … morelike Kenny would not say the things you have but hey if you say so. At least you have the sense to understand his character and not completely jump on the hate wagon because some people are blinded with hate to ever admit the good things about him
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A dying forum that you can't seem to stay away from.
No you don't. You start trouble, that is what you do.
But no doubt you'll reply to others in the same manner you replied to me.
Lmao, most of you people talking like Lilly is 100% of a super psycho is laughable. Especially in S1 everything she does is understandable ( Even if not moral ). She also clearly didn't mean to kill Mitch ( or anyone before she killed Mitch ) and she OBVIOUSLY cares for Clementine. It's obvious now that her interactions with Clem in S1 mattered for her ( Playing with Clem, giving her the hair clips, apparently being worried about her ). For sure she ain't a saint for taking kids by force to fight for her group, but we still don't know much about her situation, her motivations, if there's an actual bigger villain and so on. She's basically a Kenny type of character, does a lot of shit but there are reasons for it such as trauma and etc etc.
If you think Kenny could be forgiven after killing a woman because his enourmous trauma blinded him so much to the point that he saw AJ as his only salvation ( Clem not included ) and also hurt some folks really bad without having empathy and thinking that they also suffered and lost everything just like him, or forgave Jane for proving a point and manipulating Clem to have her all to herself ( AJ not included ) while getting someone killed, then Lilly is redeemable.
Killing a woman who seemingly left a baby to did, and did at least put him at risk ofi i due to not attending to him to show Clem. "IF I PROVOKE KENNY BY SAYING BABY IS DEAD CUZ OF ME DITCHING HIM, HE WILL BE MAD."
I cut off Sarita's arm, she got devoured. Kenny forgives that. It shows he can understand a wrongly executed plan to help someome from Jane's fucking lie. Hell if it were me, I'd kill her too. She puts Clem in a spot TO kill Kenny to save her. That is manipulative because, come on, Jane had to know one on one she would lose. She knows how to size things up.
Lilly broke into the kid's home. They were defending themselves. Lilly has no rights here. She is an intruder. A criminal. This is premeditated. She is a killer, kidnapper, and she uses child soldiers to do her dirty work.
Huh, I guess you think Solidus Snake and Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear are heroes too.
No wait, they were the bad guys...thats why I had to kill them.
Oh God, the bad part of saying the truth/facts are that Kennyfans will appear to defend him without its need.
Metal Gear doesn't take place in an apocalyptical world, your comparison makes no sense. In a TWD world people wouldn't give a shit about morals and they would do 100% much more worse stuff than the TWD media has on it. Also, we do say '' kids '', but only 2 kids on the school aren't older than 12 ( AJ and Tenn ) and for them to have survived 7+ years into this world it's probably obvious for Lilly that they aren't incapable and harmless, for the contrary.
Also I don't think they are going to be treated as slaves or anything in Lilly's community other than fighting the other community, but that's just a theory of mine so I'll have to wait.
Kenny is a man who fucked up a ton. Don't worry. I like him, but I can admit he has some bad calls under his belt.
This is just a man who is a father, looking at what she has implied to have done, and without knowing she lied about AJ being dead, reacting as a father figure should. Upset, angry and unforgiving at a woman who is, to sell her bullshit, is doing her best to imply the worst instead of...y'know...at least setting up a situation where at least it looks more like "Oh God...I was grabbed, he fell...they were coming fast. I couldn't see him in the snow. If I stayed...they would have gotten us both."
If it was done that way...as if to frame it as she had no choice...and Kenny lost it...I'd have shot him, no lie. I'd likely ditch Jane afterwards and in future replays use occ knowledge to never pick her side again, but yeah. She did a shit job of trying to look like the good guy. What she said was vague and half assed and she was more driven to prove to Clem pissing him off so he'd attack her would result in that.
If she did a better job of it...it could have been Lee losing his shit and I would shoot.
And yeah it applies. My examples were of two people using children to make soldiers to fight other humans. They had altruistic goals. "Made them into men." who could fight back, save thier third world cities from other people im situations resembling in form what a war between people in the zombie apocalypse might look like. And they were evil for it. Just like Lilly, but I admit....there could be more, but it would take a lot to hand wave things. A whole lot.
Who gives a damn if some of them are near adult age. This isn't the draft, it is a home invasion with the intent on kidnapping, theft of supplies and worse. Who cares at this point. Lilly and them are no better than their opponents, possibly worse.
And yeah, i know it can be worse. Who said their foes play fair? Who says the girls they took before are not for more than fighting?
Carver wanted to make a haven for people, but ask the dead how that worked out? Reggie I think would have something to say.
Fair enough! It’s rare to see someone like both Kenny and Lilly though but good for you
I mean, technically.
I think she may have even been intended to be a category unto herself, but didn't really get to be due to how less-detailed/consistent the gameplay/story is and the obvious preference for the Angry Dad types.
I like Lilly too. I do feel bad for season 1 Lilly. She tried to do so much without time to properly grieve for her Dad...and Kenny, then guy I was said to rise to defend, more than likely stirred the pot, with at best something like "Look, I'm fucking sorry, ok? But I couldn't take the goddamned risk. Do you think he'd wanna get up and eat his kids face off?" Or something.
But that was a different Lilly, a different time. Kenny grew to be unstable, but he was still in there. Jane...she tried but her paranoid fear of raising a baby fatherless in the zombie Apocalypse made her pick the cowards way out. Lilly broke so bad Walter White would call her out on it, and unless she proves to be a pawn with a gun to her head, well I will still like her...but I have to acknowledge her fall.
Lilly is a good character. I can like her in spite of her choices because she is a good example of someone losing their way...or worse...finding it.
It is that love to hate thing. As a person, she is scum right now. But as a video game character she is compelling.
It's no more laughable than you guys talking like Lilly is a good hearted caring person despite the game telling you otherwise.
Even killing someone over an insult?
She invaded his home in an attempt to kidnap him, she didn't think he or any of the kids would come quietly did she?
Her actions in Season 1 and the latest episode of Season 4 CLEARLY shows the opposite.
She tried to kill Clem multiple times, threatened AJ's safety, attacked her home in an attempt to kidnap her friends, killed a friend and left the school vulnerable to walker attack. You think the minor things you mentioned made a difference to her actions? you think Clem will forget what she did because of some meaningless hair clips?
Even if there's a bigger villain, doesn't excuse her actions, she didn't even try to explain her situation, she just went straight kidnapping and manipulation. Say what you want about Kenny but he would never stoop so low into harming children.
Let's remember, Jane was not innocent, she was a troubled, unstable bitch with suicidal tendencies that put a baby in danger for her own selfish gain. Don't forget, she tried to kill him. And the people he also hurt (I presume you're talking about Mike, Bonnie, Arvo), like Jane, we're not so innocent either. Kenny didn't need to redeem himself because he didn't leave on bad terms unlike Lilly. Lilly had her chance at redemption after what she did and she threw it out the window with what she did in STC, giving her a redemption arc would be lazy and forced after TT did a good job establishing her as a villain.
You can say the same about Lilly fans.
And I'm not saying she didn't knew right from wrong, she snapped that is the point in her mind she believed she did something right thing even when she was pushed against the RV. It's because she snapped and her grieve DID take over what was right from wrong and everything that has happened along the way didn’t help and Lilly from S4 is clearly different from S1.
Than why bother? Why bother shooting Carley in the face because she believed that Carley was a problem for the group wouldn’t that not be contradicting it? (WE lost everything by meaning the group not I lost everything but WE) you say that she probably didn’t need the hair thingy’s herself and she probably was obligated? but there is nothing to confirm this as far as we know now. SHE gave Clem those things out of her own will.
Why be shocked that Lee shot a innocent woman on the streets in EP3 and say it’s better than letting her suffer?
Why did she apologise to Lee when you enter her room in EP3 when she screamed at them? (she even says she is a fucking mess right now).
Lee said in Episode 2 ‘’just stay here and keep Clementine save’’ which she did and in those 5 minutes all of this was over (the farm shit), she even tries to shoot the St John person if you try to help her save her dad.
You didn’t answer my question. If she attacked the man because he was at fault for Larry’s dead than why not do the same thing when you help Kenny kill her father? Was she waiting for Lee to die? Why does she bother doing it only when you help her? She did it cause you helped her.
Why only help when you help her by that logic she should just help us.
Fine I think I can agree with the smilling.
Yes but doesn’t it say something about Kenny here that we even HAVE to convince him? I wanna point out before going any further that I like Kenny and Lilly.
All of your comments are low key butt hurt blind over I saying Kenny also had mistakes that for a sane and non biased person would be difficult to forgive. I never said Jane is innocent as I also used her as an example, so yeah, points for the nonsensical Kennyfans.
Congrats for trashing me down babe.
Whatever excuse she had, whatever her reasoning is, is not gonna make her look good and the fact she didn't regret makes her even more bad. S1 & S4 Lilly have similarities, they both don't give a shit about anyone, both are selfish, both are cold hearted and both are murderers.
She had it out for Carley since Episode 1 (the face she makes when Carley calls Kenny boss indicates this) and used the traitor excuse to go after her. She says "WE" but words and actions are different things, was she thinking "We" or was she thinking "I" when she stole the RV?
The St Johns built Clem a swing out of their own will, but that wont change the fact that they're murderous cannibals that wanted to kill Clem same it way it wont change the fact Lilly is a selfish murderer that would abandon Clem if given the chance. Just because she was friendly to her, doesn't mean the hair thingies would bond them for life.
Her opinion wont change whether you let the woman suffer or not. Like I said before, she's a hypocrite. She was willing to do the same in EP1 when she refused to help Lee, Clem & Kenny's family out to be devoured and goes off on Carley for saving them.
Just because she apologised, doesn't make her a good friend. She was irrational, hot headed and wouldn't listen to anyone.
Watching her for 5 minutes when there was no danger present doesn't make her babysitter of the year.
I know she would help if you help her that one time but this just means they're even, this isn't enough to paint her in a good picture, she has more negativity than positivity.
And where does helping her lead to in EP3?
Like I said, Kenny can be a prick at times, he just needs a kick in the ass in the right direction. Could you convince Lilly not to do the things she did in E3? no, she was irrational and wouldn't listen to no one.
So anyone that disagrees with you is butthurt & blind? If anyone seems butthurt & blind it's you, instead of pointing out why you think I'm wrong, you go straight for insults.
You'd be happy to forgive Lilly, wouldn't that make you biased?
You say she's not innocent then why bring her up if you want to make Kenny look bad?
You say Kenny fans are nonsensical but you haven't made any sense yourself.
You thrashed yourself with your immature reply. Seem were getting more & more hostile Lilly fans.
I trashed myself for answering anything coming from a Kennyfan that obviously can't handle the truth and will milk the conversation till it ends with '' Jane is the devil '' even when Jane isn't even a relevant point in the conversation or not being retrated as '' right ''.
So, basically, we're done and I won't milk a worthless conversation that has been up since 2014.
Lilly from S1 can stab danny and shoot andy, then later on works with lee to save everyone from the bandits. It’s worth not forgetting those actions.
I haven't forgotten, still doesn't change my view on her though.
Seems like you're saying anything to save face. What truth can't I handle? did I ignore the things Kenny did? no, I even said he can be a prick. I discussed every point you made, you replied to me in a bitter manner and dodged what I wrote which shows that you're the one that can't handle the truth.
Then why did you bring up Jane in the first place if she isn't relevant?
Maybe don't bring up a "worthless" conversation yourself if you don't want to discuss it. Just an idea.
PS, I'm not a Kenny fan.
Yeah I was pretty disappointed too when her return was confirmed. But, after seeing how telltale handled it, I was more than satisfied. Now alls I'm waiting for is the chance. My Clem wasn't that excited either lol. Hoping for either Molly or Christa now. If I remember correctly, there were 2 returning characters confirmed. I'd seen somewhere it'd be Jesus, but I doubt it after hearing this season won't be Richmond related.
Carver gave the crew room and board, totally offsets beating/killing Alvin huh?
Kenny is so mean to Arvo, who: Didnt realize his sistdr turned, ignored any option to hear she was already gone, lead them to the iffy lake that gets 1 or 2 people killed and was leadimg the group towards Clem and co to recover the drugs he hid from his group to save his own ass because...right..JANE is story driven to at least take his sisters medicine, even if you oppose her.
Jane created that scenario and ensured Becca could not get to safety....but Kenny is only bad guy because he...admittedly sometimes a bit too much, was mean to the little sneak.
Just like IceRyder says, they can do good things, but...overall if they are bad, they are bad.
@IceRyder
As much as I like to continue this, I'm gonna quite this conversation that has been going on for three days now and won't go anywhere. We both are not gonna change our thought's so can we agree to disagree?
Jeez you’re an idiot. Glad you were banned
Well you’d have to at least like him a bit due to the support you have been giving him. Anyone who doesn’t like Kenny would not say the things you have but hey if you say so. At least you have the sense to understand his character and not completely jump on the hate wagon because some people are blinded with hate to ever admit the good things about him
Quitting means you know @IceRyder is right and makes sense lol
No @IceRyder it means I'm the one who realises this shit ain't going anywhere and it hasn't for 3 or 4 days it's just a debate/discussion that goes in circles without an end in sight, milking the cow untill it becomes so repetitive and disgusting that you get sick by it in the very end.
And because of your answer and behavior to a friendly agree to disagree I'm more convinced that you are a child that just wants to be right in the end and have the last word in the discussion.
I took too long to reply to this thread because I realize the depth in which I have to dive in if I am to truly convey how much the statement is 100 percent fact. Like to the level of my hatred of this wretched bitch, I don't think I can put into words. But i'll sum it up with one sentence.
Lilly stole the RV, and left Clementine, the 8 year old helpless girl we all love to die in the undead nightmare that surrounds her with wreckless abandon and no care. Nothing more can be said or needs to be said. It's over.
Lilly is the most useless, heartless, cold piece of horrible, child hating, selfish trash to ever exist in a video game. She left fucking children, CHILDREN in the cold to fend against walkers and stole an RV and this comes moments after assassinating a woman over telling her the facts. She has now started a damn cult that spends its days kidnapping, abusing, shooting and using children for their cause. A militia of kids to fight her wars because she always had to be an authoritarian, power tripping, mental fucking pig. A useless pig.
Even Carver is not as low. Hell, the stranger, Carver, The St. John family. All not as low combined. They were pieces of shit but they had their motives each and every one. St. John family wanted to eat. Simple. Carver wanted his new master race to be strong and was basically hitler culling a herd. The stranger lost everything because of the actions of your group and wanted Clementine to be safe as twisted as he was he had lost his mind. But Lilly? Lilly stepped on people her whole life. Threw the world to the wind for herself. And couldn't care less if Clem or Duck or Kenny or Lee lived or died. Assassinated Carly because she lost an argument? Are you kidding me?
Now you people want to pretend like she's worth saving?
If given the option between stomping her fucking teeth through a concrete curb until her nose bone punctures her brain and theirs nothing but bits of tongue left looking like a ham exploded and eyeballs are stuck to your damn shoe strings or forgiving her. Tell Clem to wear a pair of shoes she don't care about because they're getting ruined with the blood of the wicked.
I find it crazy that people will condemn Kenny and Eleanor forever to never be forgiven as long as they live yet stand on a soap box for Lilly. Get a grip.
Nope, it’s just proven how triggered you get when someone argues or disagrees with you. Have a nice day!
Well that's a shame, I really did like having this discussion with you, It's your choice if you don't want to discuss this further. All I can say is that if Season 1 didn't show what a selfish heartless bitch she really, then Season 4 should've confirmed the kind of person she really is.
I'll admit, I do like Kenny and I'll defend him if he's not in the wrong. As a neutral, if I had a choice between Lilly & Kenny, Kenny will always come first, why? because Lilly is a proven selfish backstabber and Kenny, prick or not, he does stick with you.