Too Much? A Comment on Profanity in The Walking Dead and Telltale Games
Let me make this clear: I'm not here to say no one should ever swear. I personally don't swear and that's my choice, but I realize that swearing exists and people do it. Sometimes it can really sell an emotion, sometimes it can be funny and sometimes it fits a character or tone.
However, I feel there is such a thing as proper use of swearing. Usually the best examples are punctuated moments, where there has not been a lot of profanity before and then a harsh word is used to make a point. The more casual and persistent swearing is, however, the more I feel it lessens the impact of the writing. There are exceptions and on a whole The Walking Dead, Grand Theft Auto V and other similar games can be tremendously written games even with excessive profanity...
..yet I feel they could be better if they were reined in more. One of my biggest pet peeves in writing is when EVERYONE in a story equally swears like a sailor. Especially when not everyone is a "hardened character." If the nice guy and the rebel just drop casual f-bombs with no consequence, it just becomes gratuitous. They no longer have distinct vocabularies or sayings that only they use or that will make us go "Oh, just like so and so to say it like that."
For me, I feel 400 Days in particular was pushing it. I can handle Vince's story having a lot of swearing since they are criminals, even if it did get pretty excessive with the two black criminals who died early on (because we all know black criminals can only talk to each other with strings of F-bombs, right....? Sigh...). However, seeing it be used very casually with characters like Russell and Shel made it feel excessive. They hardly seem like the characters to be so comfortable using excessive profanity from what we know about them, yet they just talk like everyone else. As good as their dialogue is, it can start to become stale from just being as profane as everyone else. And seeing how The Wolf Among Us is equally casual with its strong profanity, I would really not want this to become a trend.
I know I am and will be in the minority here, but I just would love to share this to the Telltale writers since they are some of the strongest writers in the industry. Just be a bit more controlled in how you use profanity. Space it out, tone down certain words, etc. Sometimes it is fine for a character to drop an F-bomb, but sometimes saying nothing is just as good if not better. I would only hope the best for future projects and I think this could help to even a little degree.
I dunno. Anyone else agree with my ramblings here?
Comments
I don't actually remember Shel swearing that much. I know she says "Fuck you, Roman" at one point but that was a pretty high pressure situation. And Russell's a high school/college student. Kids that age swear A LOT, not even taking into account the fact that it's a zombie apocalypse and that he spent the past several months of his life hanging around a bunch of crazy people.
More generally, it's just how people talk when they don't feel the need to censor themselves. Many people use swears for no real reason other than that's just how they talk. Maybe it's because I'm so used to it that I don't really consider it a "thing," but I didn't think that the casual swearing took away from the impact of the "Precision F-Strikes", if I may use a TV Tropes term. Just take look at Kenny. The man swears like a sailor (well, I guess he sorta is) but it's VERY obvious when he means "forget you" and when he means "FUCK. YOU."
But you forget that 400 days are actually 400 days. The Social fabric of society degenerates fast during times of crysis... In the end it's usually signs of agression that keep you safe. Swearing usually is seen as a sign of agression especially when people are angry or pushed into a corner!
swear
I swear every time something bad or wrong happens to me. It's a sign of agression, frustration, and the characters in The Walking Dead have all right to be frustrated.
Well I guess we can agree to disagree. These games are rated M for mature and I enjoy the adult gameplay. I would not go to a R rated movie and expect any less. I can remember when Jaws came out and it was a PG movie. Swearing and all.
Yeah, but Jaws had very little profanity in spite of that. And again, it's not the fact there is profanity but that the profanity is just so random and thrown about that there's no real value to it.
And the stuff about characters and social fabrics and whatnot are a bit moot because the writers are in complete control of what is or isn't in the story. The TV show is essentially an R-rated movie, and yet they have no hard R swear words or very little. I'm not saying the TV show is better because of that, but it is possible to have society crumble and everyone not become hard swearers.
In my experience 90% of people swear. It's a normal reaction to stressful/painful situations. I don't really understand how swearing could make anything worse.
It's just about its effectiveness. People swear in stress and painful situations, but just dropping hard profanity in casual conversation is just empty words. Not effective at all in my opinion.
The concept that the English language still has taboo words in the 21st century is beyond my understanding. So a writer can craft a scene where a decaying corpse with it's throat hanging open can chase down a child, but should think twice about having a character say "fuck" because THAT's obscene?
I could go on about the use of violence too, but that's a whole other thread
hehehe!
I don't mind the swearing as long as it's fitting of the character(s). Like you said, hardened criminals are expected to swear but an 8 year old girl swearing up and down would be something that I would have a problem with. When Clem swears once, she's scolded for it and then the whole "swear" thing picks up in the later episodes. That's understandable for the situation. Excessive use of swears just for the sake of using a swear word is just ridiculous. I don't think that 400 Days had a problem with swearing. I would probably be swearing a lot more than I do in a zombiepocalypse and I was a sailor, so that's saying something.
Well America can be a little weird on certain subjects... to name a few Swearing in games or on TV shows, Sex Ed. in schools and Nudity people in Europe wouldn't even dignify as that. Then again if people wanna be a little uptight it is well within their right to be. But as said before you can drop a air conditioner (freezer scene ep.2) on a guys head see it splatter everywhere and you expect the daughter of that guy not to swear... Good luck!
But that's how people talk literally in the real world.
As an adult, I am aware that I live in a world with sex & violence in it. When a writer presents me with a narrative, I want that artist to have every concept in the world available to him/her in order to present me with a moving story. Violence, sex and the language that describes those things are not flaws in the world to be corrected. They can all be presented in a meaningful way. And even if the depictions are exaggerative or crass, they still impart a mood to the game that is a mirror to society - even if it's a distorted mirror. The point being that the language is carefully crafted by a team of writers that feels those words convey the ideas they want to communicate to the audience. I'm tired of the video game industry being pushed around by parents and prudes with no concept of art. If you don't like the swearing in TWD (or GTA V) or Resevoir Dogs or Naked Lunch, go play a shittier game, see a shittier movie or read a shittier book.
Ahhh, buddy... uhm... read what i said again 'cause i'm actually on your side on this one...
Sorry. Wasn't pointing fingers at you, Jaybles. Just had one of those "And another thing!" moments.
You disagree with the violence too? No offense, but it's a walking dead game.
If you have a problem with swearing, don't buy M mature games..
Well if I wake up one day and zombies are running around eating asses, my first words will probably be "OH SHIT"
I still circle back to the game is rated m for mature. If you do not approve of the volence and profanity then there are other games available.
On top of that, the source material is mature. If you read the comics, there's just as much - probably more - profanity in that. I think it's mentioned in the audio commentary for Jurassic Park that Telltale matches the rating of whatever they adapt. So Jurassic Park is violent, but has no swearing. Back to the Future has some swearing, but it's pretty tame. Walking Dead is outright vulgar. They keep in time with each one pretty well.
I wouldn't blame Telltale. Read how Kirkman writes Negan. Now that's some profanity.
I think the fact that it isn't used just for the sake of shock value may be what makes it feel less forced too me.
While I've criticized some games/movies for using profanity for the sake of it, I think The Walking Dead does a good job in establishing it as simply being a normal manner of speech for some people. Reflectively, Larry and Kenny are people who always swear, Katjaa is someone who never swears, and Ben is someone who swears in tenser moments.
I think swearing is fine in video games. This is what takes place. Like in bioware games. It never registered in my mind. How you could cut off a persons head. Have that blood pumping into the air. Yet get touchy when it comes to sexual things or swearing. I say keep it at the current level. That's like asking the walking dead to turn down their level of violence.
To be honest I would welcome a romantic option in the walking dead, you can't deny that there was a connexion between characters and it would have been nice to have the option to act upon those urges in the game. Just a little classy nudity and it would have been seasoned just right. I also hear the source material has a good bit of sexual situations.
I can tell you that if you have an issue with the swearing in The Wolf Among Us then you haven't read the Fables comic series. It is very mature and almost everyone swears like a sailor in it.
Ok! So I'll say what no one else will. I understand your opinion on swearing but you are barking up the wrong tree. This game is rated M for mature. Therefore your post has no warrant here. You should play games that are rated E for everyone instead of coming to the "adult" game message boards and laying down your "Bullshit" liberal opinions on a game rated for mature audiences. I really feel bad for the next generation of gamers. People like you with your humanistic outlooks really will try to or actually change this world into a bunch of "Pussies". Hopefully my "swearing" was used in the right context to appease you.
Have you considered that maybe the reason why no one else thought to say what you said was because we didn't feel like being a dick to someone who was just expressing a nuanced point of view about a feature of a game that he/she found unappealing? No?
I agreee with zgamer, he makes a valid point. And I am sad that many people here either do not understand what he means or probably not even read his post. It is not about having a problem with swearing. It is about using it effectively. The impact of strong language is more significant if used wisely and on point and not in a constant stream of swear words.
And yes shaping out characters by having a distinctive language for each is important. Not everyone swears. In fact it quite depends on your environment, your social status etc...
That being said, I generally loved the dialogue in TWD because it was very realistic.You didn't have the impression the lines were read from a page, like it appears to be the case in so many other games.
I agree with some points of view. Yet if we start filtering for it now. Where do we stop. Cussing when used properly can be effective. No one, complained about the violence in the walking dead. Why would cuss words upset us. I'm an adult (28) and I can handle language like this. I've seen more offensive stuff on cable then here.
Honestly, even though I respect the other peoples opinion. I honestly see no problem. I do wish in the future, when you select the romance option. You can romance partners and..it wouldn't be very censored. For example, Bioware when they do romantic encounters, they cover it up by pretending the person is still in their underwear etc.
Witcher 2 reveals almost it all. I think its fine where its at. I suppose people can always ask for censored verizon of the game. I suppose that would cost more and take more time however. Though it is rated M. Not likely they snuck up on you with that. Lets be honest, we're all interested in violence, even cussing or we'd be playing hello kitty instead these great games.
I was not being a dick. It wasn't intended that way. Just being blunt.
"'Bullshit' liberal opinions." "People like you...will try to or actually change this world into a bunch of 'Pussies.'" Pretty dickish, dude.
You also seem to be conflating "Don't have every character swear so much because it makes their manner of speaking seem indistinct from one another and so that it's more powerful when they do swear" with "Never use profanity because it offends my delicate sensibilities."
Not at all.
Zgamers post made plenty of sense but in the real world people curse all the time for no apparent reason. Not to mention the game is happening in a zombie apocalypse. TWD won a ton of awards because of the brilliant people who put their time and effort into making that game. And some people including myself really like the way it is, because that's the way it was made. But when you see:
"I know I am and will be in the minority here, but I just would love to share this to the Telltale writers since they are some of the strongest writers in the industry. Just be a bit more controlled in how you use profanity. Space it out, tone down certain words, etc. Sometimes it is fine for a character to drop an F-bomb, but sometimes saying nothing is just as good if not better. I would only hope the best for future projects and I think this could help to even a little degree."
Sounds like someone is trying to customize a game to their personal preferences when the game was already perfect. I say let tell tale do what they do best and just continue to make the game, without having to worry about proper use of a "swear" especially during a zombie apocalypse. And if anyone feels the grammar is subpar, just don't buy future episodes.
I'd probably cuss if zombies were chomping down on my friends/family members.
And I'll admit I'm not super fond of it and I don't resort to profanity super often, but it doesn't bother me when other people cuss.
Although I'll agree that in 400 Days profanity was lot more prevalent and there were a lot more drug references as well but as everyone else has said, It's rated M for Mature
(So I'm sure that rating covers their use of profanity.)
"Bullshit liberal opinions" is a little far. In fact, I'd say that choosing to swear in a game is a liberal stance and cracking down on it is a conservative approach. Does this have to get political in a topic that's clearly about personal preference? The original poster thinks that swearing is unnecessary in a super-violent game. I think that calls for sly ridicule more than blatant politics.
Instead of "People like you with your humanistic outlooks really will try to or actually change this world into a bunch of 'Pussies'" maybe we can substitute "I'm sorry the stakes in this game weren't high enough to warrant anything higher than 'golly', but we hope that by season 2 rolls around we will have you at a strong 'crimin-diddly-darn'!" Telltale clearly isn't trying hard enough.
No, that's still not quite the argument. The OP was suggesting that the casual swearing be toned down so that when the shit does really hit the fan, the swearing in the dialogue would be more emphatic and reflective of the super-violent nature of the situation. I can understand how someone who doesn't swear a lot might feel that the amount of swearing desensitizes the viewer to harsher words when used in similarly harsh situations. It's probably true to an extent. It's just that most us are probably already desensitized enough to rough language that we don't find it to be an issue.
That being said, coming back from playing TWAU, I do kinda see how too much swearing can be off-putting. There were a few moments when I felt like the profanity was forced into the dialogue needlessly. I get that the point was to drive home the point that most fables are fairly unpleasant and jaded but it did get old after a little while.
I'll agree with it being overdone when I manage to launch it. Still working on that part.
I thought the swearing was pretty appropriate in the game. Some characters (Larry, Kenny, possibly Lee) swore all the time, while others (Katjaa, Doug, Clem, Shel) hardly swore at all. It's just a way that people speak. Hell, I swear all the fucking time, and corpses aren't pounding on my door. I feel that most, if not all, the swearing was justified as it came at appropriate moments (like when Shel gets scared by Becca, Lee's first encounter with a walker) or was just in characer for them (KENNY. SO MUCH). It didn't really lessen any of the "Precision F-Strike" moments for me, because I knew that the character dropping the F-Strike in that manner meant it in a different, more serious way than any other time they swore.
I understand your "political view" but disagree because im not talking about tell tales intention of the game, with choosing to use certain dialogue. However that being said I really enjoyed your sly ridicule much better. Your sarcasm made me laugh. :-)
I see a lot of people saying that swearing is more appropriate when people are stressed, frustrated, angry, etc etc etc. So are we saying that the characters in TWD aren't in a stressful, frustrating situation?
I personally don't swear all that often, but have no problem with it. I mean, I know people that throw out F-Bombs like others use the words "uh" or "um". It's just part of how people speak. It doesn't take away effectiveness when someone is cursing out of anger vs cursing just to curse to me.
I particularly liked the part in S1E1 where you could choose to tell Clem that the barn at Hershel's smelled like "manure" or "shit"; it made me laugh when it came back in E2 when Clementine tells Duck what it smells like in the barn at the dairy - if you tell her it smells like shit everyone kind of gives you a shocked, evil-eye look, but if you say manure Duck asks what it is and no one else really reacts.