The Ring (mysteries and theories)
After the first playthrough I thought Faith was actually meeting the Woodsman because of the money he owes her. Then I played the episode again and noticed that she was wearing the ring right after she frisked him. She states several times that she wouldn't leave after she gets what's hers.
As you know Woody doesn't have any money. The truth is she was searching her ring as we know from the book that it belongs to her. The money was just a make-believe, Bigby wasn't supposed to know about the real reason Faith being there. The dialogue about giving her the money or not was just to make us also believe it's about the money.
When I mentioned this in another discussion @DomeWing333 pointed out that she didn't wear the ring in the room upstairs during the fight but she does outside BEFORE frisking him.
I checked it and it's true as you can see here:
You can clearly see she really doesn't wear it in the building but she DOES when she's slamming the axe into Woody head. Right after the frisking is done there is a relatively long close-up of Faith looking down at her ring thoughtfully. Is the ring in the last picture probably a glitch/oversight? I don't think so. She must've found the ring in Woody's apartment.
QUESTIONS
- Why would Woody have it?
- Why doesn't she want Bigby to know about it?
- Is the ring itself of importance?
My thoughts:
- I can hardly remember Toad mentioning that he is keeping the left belongings of former tenants, that is why he had Faiths Donkeyskin. She seems to be a former tenant and I assume she once inhabited the Woodman's apartment. That would be an explanation why she approaches quickly to knock him over with the axe: she knew exactly where the ring is because she had hidden it herself earlier in the room in a place even Toad couldn't detect.
- I think it's just her who doesn't want Bigby to know about the ring or her identity because the ring is placed intentionally in the mouth of her chopped off head by someone else who doesn't bother.
- On the one hand the person who placed her head on the stairs wants Bigby to find out about Faith's identity and doesn't care about the ring itself as he gives it away into other peoples hands. On the other hand I remember Dee / Dum looking after something in Woody's apartment. When Toad told one of the twin brothers about the Donkeyskin coat Dee/Dum wasn't interested at all. I think they were looking for the ring and there are two groups of different interests such as a) Dee, Dum and their employer and b) the group/person responsible for placing the heads on the staircase
What do you think about it? Any Otter theories coming to your mind?
(Sorry for my bad english, it is not my mother tongue)
EDIT
Proceeding with my idea of Faith being a former tenant of Woody's room: I think that one of the Tweedle twins was looking for the ring at Woody's place at Faiths former apartment while the other twin brother was looking for it at Lawrence's. If you go to Lawrence's first and hide in the cupboard you can see that Dee/Dum doesn't care for Lawrences body, he just sniffles around.
Comments
I'll just repeat here what I posted in the thread:
Maybe she always has the ring on her person but just takes it off her finger and puts it in her purse when she's "working." Her ring displays her family crest and so it might remind her of her former wealth and glory. More tragically, maybe it reminds her of how she ran away from her riches to avoid giving herself away to someone she didn't want to and is now selling her body to earn a tiny fraction of the wealth she had.
ignoring a simple error, i would agree that not wearing the ring while "working" would be something she may do
She didn't not want Bigby to find out about the ring, as she didn't know that he would enter the room when she has it off.
It could be a glitch. Most likely some weird oversight.
Oh shit! Its cool you found that out. Kudos to you.
It could be a glitch, an oversight or it could have some actual significance and be explained in the game. Guess we'll find out eventually.
I just checked it: Toad clearly says one of the Tweedle was looking for Something the Woodman has or think he would have. I truly beliebe it's the ring, as I mentioned already.
This was a piece that didn't make any sense to me, either. The ring obviously has some meaning to it, since it was shoved in the mouth of her decapitated head, but why leave it with her if it was of such great importance...? Apparently, as some have stated, it was meant to be found by Bigby or Snow. Fair enough. However, this scene plays out a little differently in my mind.
Let's recall the Woodsman for a moment, and what's been revealed about him. He's a broke drunk. With that in mind, let's recall the "sob story" he shared with Bigby, at the Trip Trap. He mentions wanting to rob Little Red Riding Hood/Grandma because he thought they had money. Alright, again, fair enough. He also mentioned that Red didn't reward him for his efforts, which he still resents, apparently, to this day (Way to hold a grudge).
Faith was a call girl. This is where it starts to get strange for me, in regards to Faith and her ring. In the dialogue between Faith and Bigby, she states that the Woodsman asked if she knew who he was. She replied that she didn't, which indicates this was her first visit to his home (Or first encounter with him, at the very least). How would he have come into possession of her ring, until that very moment? That's not to say that she didn't live there, or something along those lines. Toad did have her coat, that he "repossessed" due to the turn over rate of the apartment. That also doesn't rule out that the Woodsman might have stolen her possessions, either. If he did have the ring, I believe that might be the reasoning behind it. He needed money. There's a lot of loop holes and unexplained bits and bobs to that theory, but that's about the only reason I could think of for Faith, and her ring, to be there. I mean, on the street, she got what she would have come for. Why go through the Woodsman's pockets, looking for money?
I believe the scene plays out as we see it, for the most part. Faith is a hooker. The Woodsman was degraded by what happened between him and Little Red, which be obviously still holds a grudge over. It's not unheard of for a gentleman (And I use the term lightly, for Woody) to request the services of a call girl, and then imagine her as the object of his frustrations. Faith was the Woodsman's "Little Red," which would explain the massive beating he was giving her. It's probably what he wished he could do to Little Red, after all these years, but never did. It's been known to happen. People will call persons of that "service" and request nothing sexual (Though, that can't be ruled out) of them but, rather, administer physical abuse, instead. People and their jollies, I swear.
That still does leave the ultimate question, though. What were the Tweedles looking for in the Woodsman's apartment? It might have been the ring, seeing as it wasn't Faith's donkey skin coat. It also might be something completely different, something that we haven't been introduced to, as of yet. All we know is that the ring was her "family/story's" symbol. Was it magical? Who knows. Does it play a part in the story? Again, it's too early to definitively say. That will probably be revealed in the upcoming episodes, since they put some emphasis on the ordeal. Time will only tell.
The ring is important and not a glitch.
With the camera centered at it for so long, they must have intended the player to notice it.
Whether it was just to hint at Faith's true identity or more than that is unclear.
We don't know if it was in the Woodman's apartment or if Faith carried it in her bag the whole time,
only taking her husbands ring off when she was "working".
The murderer has a pattern, he's killing princesses.
And I predict that Beauty will be next...
I don’t think Faith’s intention was finding her family heirloom when visiting the Woodsman’s apartment. I don’t think she got what she was looking for because while wearing her ring she can be seen at times appearing genuinely upset rather than relieved.
I thought they were looking for the Axe, not the ring. As the Axe is most likely the murder weapon.
Very nice catch about the ring. I always thought she had just pulled it out of her purse when they focused on it, but the shot with her having it while hitting the Woodsman with the Axe makes me think you are spot on with the ring being what she was really looking for. Money possibly being just the cover up. The ring does seem to be very important. It is what leads Bigby to discover Faith's identity. Without it, Bigby doesn't have much of a trail.
There are some threads going around that believe Faith and Snow are not permanently dead (I am in agreement with this idea, especially when it comes to Faith). Possibly this has something to do with the Ribbon from the story where a Ribbon keeps a girl's head from falling off all her life. Let's suppose that Faith is also this fable in addition to Donkey skin girl (like Bigby is the wolf from many separate fables). If she is, then that ribbon may have the magical ability to reattach her head. If this was the case, Faith would not fear decapitation as it could be reattached by the ribbon. Now, lets consider Bigby and Faith's conversation. If you press Faith about things concerning her identity, she seems evasive, and I believe no matter how you play the encounter you will always get the "my lips are sealed line". Faith also says something along the lines of I am trying my best to answer your questions if you confront her about her evasiveness. She seems to be genuinely trying to tell you who she is, but is unable to because of what might be a magical spell. This is when she says " Hey do you like my ribbon?" Now, this may just be another attempt to change the subject, but maybe its an attempt for Faith to tell Bigby who she is, without telling Bigby who she is. A loophole to work around the spell. It doesn't work however, as it doesn't bring Bigby any closer to learning more about her (not sure if I've tried all the options, but I believe this to be true in all cases). Maybe Faith, who could always have her head reattached, takes off her ribbon and some third party places her head at the steps with the ring in her mouth as a way to rope In Bigby, get him to start sniffing around, and to learn Faith's identity while getting around the spell (which seems powerful enough to block the magic mirror).
Why does Faith simply not hand over her ring to Bigby? Here's where it could get a little more sinister, maybe she is being coerced into taking off her ribbon, by the same third party who places her head on the steps, her employer could be paying Faith, for who under this supposition decapitation does not mean permanent death, as a setup and a trap for Bigby. If the overall plan is to setup/trap Bigby, then the importance of the ring and why Faith needed it, may have been for the job of entrapping Bigby. It is clear that Faith knows exactly who Bigby is and exactly where Bigby lives and is well aware of his reputation (though maybe this is just something that everyone in fabletown knows) Maybe her being a working girl isn't limited to prostitution (or possibly not prostitution at all), but maybe she is willing to be party to Bigby's downfall as part of a job.
Part of a theory I have with Faith being used as a means to an end. The ring could be a necessary tool. Though it does heavily depend on Faith also being the girl from the ribbon fable.
Yeah, time will tell, but keeping our knowledge about the ring in mind the future episodes will be even more fun to play. Good thoughts btw
If they are looking for the ring then that rules TweedleDee/Dum out of the murder suspect line.If they were the murderers then they would of taken the ring with them and not of left it in Faith's mouth.
That's a very strong point!
I agree it's a good point
Yeah, I suppose Beauty will be next, as we don't know any other female characters, except of the bartender lady (I've forgotten her name). I also assume, that something's going to happen to the trip trap lady's sister, because in the preview of the second episode she says 'oh no'. Also Gren mentioned that her sister is missing.
I hadn't noticed until I read this thread that the ring is not on her finger while she is in the Woodsman's apartment. Maybe she did just take it off because she was "working" or maybe there was another reason.
One interesting thing to note is that in most versions of this tale, Donkey Skin's ring is significant because it serves to bring her and the prince together. In Perrault's version (one of the earlier written versions of the story), the ring is dropped into a cake that the prince eats and then it becomes a device similar to Cinderella's shoe. The prince declares that he will only marry the girl whose finger can fit into the ring, because he knows that his true love made the cake. Definitely something to keep in mind when considering the importance of the ring. So if this follows the old story, the ring would not only be important to Faith, but to Prince Lawrence as well.
Here's a link to Perrault's story.
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/perrault11.html
I mean, obviously that's where the story is heading... if you look at the episode titles, "the boy who cried wolf" has a grudge against Bigby (he's the red-head you see Bigby and Snow walk past in the very beginning as Snow is leading Bigby downstairs to see the head of Faith. The whole plot is to simply remove Bigby from power in the community... to get him to falsely accuse someone of murder, then be utterly humiliated when he's dead wrong. Shamed into retiring, perhaps?
Thank you very much for the informative link and your comment!
So... after playing Smokes and Mirrors I am even more convinced that Dee was in her appartement looking for her ring. He almost babbled it out during the interrogation. What else could it be?
I'm sorry,i had to...
I'm pretty sure the Tweedles were looking for the photographs. During one of their searches they were checking bookshelves and I think records, places where you might hide something flat. Someone was trying to blackmail Crane with the pictures, and I suspect that both Faith and Woody have had them In their possession at some point. If Faith & Lily were working together (trying to get off the game), it would explain why Lily had them with her. The Tweedles could have been hired by either Crane or the original extortionist (Crane would want them out of circulation, blackmailer would want his investment back)
I started to think about the ring again too after Smoke & Mirrors. Also, why was the jewelry box in her cubby at the Pudding and Pie broken? Seems to support the theory that someone may have been looking for the ring.
But, then in episode 1 if you wait long enough for Dee to search around Faith's apartment for a while (in the "Lawrence is alive" scenario), he starts searching the bookshelf. Which is strange. So, I still don't know. I do still think the ring was very important, though.
I would also like someone's opinion on what Faith said prior to her murder- "Don't worry, I won't be doing this for much longer." I mean did she KNOW someone was going to kill her or what?
I think she meant she had a plan to make enough money to stop hooking. I think that she (either on her own or working with Lily) had got hold of the photo's and was planning on using them to pay off her debt and get off the game.
I would also like to add that with the conversation with Nerissa, she seemed like he was resisting to say 'these lips are sealed.' This could have been because she saw Wolf's frustration with the phrase, or she was genuinely fighting a potential spell on her.
Just like Faith diverted Wolf's attention to the ribbon, perhaps Nerissa did the same with the room.
Could be completely wrong though =P
I would also like to add that with the conversation with Nerissa, she seemed like he was resisting to say 'these lips are sealed.' This could have been because she saw Wolf's frustration with the phrase, or she was genuinely fighting a potential spell on her.
Just like Faith diverted Wolf's attention to the ribbon, perhaps Nerissa did the same with the room.
Could be completely wrong though =P
But who says that Dee and Dum were the ones placing the heads on the staircase?
This!
I agree with most of your theory, however if Dee and Dum know the ring originally belongs to Faith (and know who she is and her story too) then why they didn't bother to look at the donkey fur? it's also something important / typically related to her as well so there could be a chance she put it there. The busted jewelry chest may not be caused by the twins either. I don't think Georgie will let them storm in and bother his girls.
Let's look at this as an extorsion motive......Being that Dee called Faith a little thief ... Dee/Dum employer looking for something that might incriminate him (or her). but doesn't know which girl at the Puddin and pie, is doing it so they target Faith...and thought it be her in Room 207, but from the note Bigby found there...she and lilly switched schedules...and lily was mistaken for Faith...That would explain the laughing TJ heard....one of the killers was joking at his partner for killing the Wrong girl.,,,, the killers then take down what they think is the right girl...leaving the head as a warning to those who have the 'evidence this person is looking for. The photo of Crane is just a red herring, to throw suspetion
Man this is so like the "Boy who Cried Wolf" in this thread http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/51167/the-killer-investigation-hard-evidence-found some pretty heavy shit we got going here
just sloppy work i think
I mean on episode 1, the part were bigby goes to the triptrap and looks to georgie porgie, before he goes out of the taxi. If you look closely you can see the red haired man how i warms his hands on the fire. Than later, if you see the taxidriver, when snow tells bigby "be careful" you see the red haired man again as the driver. It's just sloppy work i think