The Big Episode 2 Problem Discussion Thread
Hello 
. I figured seeing how lots of people have annoyances with the plot or gameplay of Episode two, we might as well have a central thread so it doesn't block all the other mystery theories and others . Even if its not used for that I'll keep a list here at the top of things that disappointed us, maybe telltale will take a look lol(that wont happen but I can wish 
). Anyway, the current list of problems are as follows. Feel free to dispute/add to any of the problems outlined here as well, I am interested in hearing every side of the this
- Short episode, 1hour and 30Mins
- Many of the scenes from the preview aren't in the final product. This could be due to major storyline changes.
- Not many episode 1 choices affect the game.
- Prince Lawrence doesn't show up if you save him(Would have expected him too as there was mystery surrounding what happened in his apartment, however there is still 3 episodes left to close that plotline. Another reason against this one was posted by Vainamoin, stating that there are certain major plot points in the episode and that the rest is extra to allow more interaction with characters. Because those followed the story they could be added in while Prince Lawrence would interrupt it and unless he had meaningful dialog he would just be filler content.).
- Only very brief mention of the character you didn't arrest.
- Beast still gets upset with you and fights even if you were truthful to him
- Several choices from Episode 2 either don't work well or do not matter
- Fable Interrogation scene: Snow still gets mad at you even if you don't use any violence on Dee/Woodsman
- Talking to TJ: In some instances snow says that it went as well as she expected(Which was badly), when he wasn't upset at the end and toad didn't need to interfere. Not sure if this is a bug or just an oversight from my few playthroughs, but I'm fairly sure TJ was fine at the end.
- Pretty much every line of dialog throughout the game has the same answer with maybe a sentence just before to make it make more sense(This doesn't seem normal, in the other games they have different responses)
- The normal animation bugs, characters not talking for several seconds and apparently music can not play in certain scenes.
- Story based problems(These could all have a reason, but as of yet they are unknown)
- Beast will shows up at the love hotel for no reason(Reason to be suspicious? lol
. Possibility that Crane sent him to try and stop us(Without him knowing that of course))
- Possible overlooks by telltale in the hurry to get the episode out(These are mostly opinion and may have an explanation in the story)
- So far the Faith murder seems completely unrelated to Lillys
- No red hared guy
In all honesty, after a four month wait I would have hoped that the episode would have been better, especially with the exact same murder mystery appearing on Castle(A popular crime show) less than a season ago lol, but I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions .
Comments
I can't help but feel that the true story was that it was the boy who cried wolf all along, and they had to rewrite the entire episode/season to change this as most people had already speculated it so early on lol.. idk
That's what I think too.
Wich also explains the release's delay,
I don't think it was, considering the comics. (In reponse to the Boy Who Cried Wolf comment)
What do you mean by considering the comics? Is the boy who cried wolf in them?
Also, I've updated the list to include some story contrivances.
They definitely rewrote the story. This episode had the most glitches I've seen. But nonetheless, it was a fantastic episode and I cannot wait for episode 3!
I have a problem with it glitching , when I went to see Georgie The screen was half RED!! and it kept happening every time they would show Bigby . Also glitch when next time on , I hear the voices and there is a 10 second delay before I can see anything . Using PS3 . I downloaded the update and still has the Glitches. Episode 1 played fine except had same glitch with next time on.
Wow, that sounds pretty bad! I had the same next time glitch on my PC, although not the red screen one. A quick search showed nothing either, that's a pretty crazy one lol
. Have you tried creating a thread in the support area of the forum? 
Liked it, but the episode was extremely linear. I felt like I went from Point A to Point B without having any say in things. In episode one, we had choices choosing not only where we went, but when. The episode kinda felt "forced" to a degree.
Aren't their games linear in the first place? Yeah, as you said, it gave you a choice to go to either place first in the first episode, until you eventually went there anyway.
Also, fight with Beast too short as well, probably definitely shortened due to the delay.
No I haven't I was able to snap a few Pics of it on my phone but I don't think I can post it in here I would have figured it was a common thing . Should I contact playstation or Tell Tale?
To play devil's advocate for a moment...I don't see how it's a problem that the red HAIRED guy never shows up. That's opinion.
I also don't know how you think the two murders are unrelated; the two victims work the same job, see the same people and were killed the same way. How is that not related?
As for Beast, I assumed he followed Beauty or Crane told him where to go in the hopes Beast would prevent Bigby from discovering his after hours activities (remember, he was watching everything through the mirror).
And if you play the interrogation scene right, there is a dialogue option where you can protest your innocence regarding 'torturing' the prisoner.
Okay, the other issues you listed notwithstanding, these last two points just strike me as a tad silly.
Faith and Lily were both murdered in the exact same way, and in this episode, we found out that they both worked at the Pudding & Pie. That's hardly "completely unrelated." There's definitely a connection. We can't say exactly what that connection is right now because we don't have the full picture yet. It's only the second episode. What do you want?
As for the red haired man, he was just a nameless background character in Episode 1. No one ever said that he was going to be important. That was just some fan theory that the community latched onto and got fueled by the fact that people didn't have anything else to talk about for the four months between episodes. And frankly, it was a theory that had a lot of holes in it to begin with. But it's not Telltale's fault that the story they were writing didn't align with the story that people on the forums arbitrarily decided that they were supposed to be writing.
I agree, that's why I added possible at the beginning, maybe I should make that more clear
. Beast could be explained by crane asking him I guess, if it were Beauty he would have encountered her when she first went there so that can't be the reason. Crane telling her to go there is a good point though, hopefully its explained in future episodes 
As for faiths murder, sure they work at the same place, but the reason Crane apparently killed lilly is because he wanted to play out snow whites story with a twist, wheres so far we have no idea why faith was killed and it definitely wasn't the same reason. That was one of the possible ones as well though, but the only connection is the location, not the motive which I find odd.
Even if you use that dialog option Snow is still annoyed at you for a while for no reason, and its just strange for her to assume that anyway. It doesn't affect the game much but it certainly took away from the immersion, especially when combined with her other non-choiced based dialog
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Good point, I've updated that part to state that's its mostly my opinion. I do have reasons for them though, the one about faith and lillies deaths can be found in the comment above this one. When it comes to the red haired guy, I just found it surprising that after an episode full of him, he had disappeared. It is also a very popular theory around here that the episode was changed drastically because of how noticeable he was, so I figured it was note-worthy to add that in. Its just an opinion though, hopefully the update reflects that a bit better
Dammit, they should have left it the way it was.
I gotcha. But I think you're wrong about Crane--he's a patsy. He didn't kill Lily, but it's being made to look like he did to divert attention. So I think we'll see in future episodes the motive for the murders is connected.
He's mentioned as a joke. A character tries to make a point to another, saying "Do you know the Boy Who Cried Wolf?" and the other answers "Yeah, sure, he lives upstairs."
twd season 1 had similar problems.
ttg read peoples reactions and sometimes if people have agreed on an issue they make changes to solve it.
previews are based on ttg's current view on the next episode as they see it,
as for the time frame of the episode, not everyone will rush it. not everyone will play it 'once' not everyone can complete qte's first time and instantly.
for me the story was great, and the 'progression' is still fine anything else would've felt rushed.
didn't like it not worth the wait it was boring and moved slowly only good thing was the dialogue and the momeet snow showed up was kind of " WTF " but besides that i already expected crane to be a suspect ( not fully sold that he is the killer ) and really i expected snow to be back just not so soon.
The fight scene with beast wasn't as dynamic as the fights in episode 1 the new characters barely got any screen time , your decision from episode 1 don't matter and your choices in episode 2 don't affect the actual episode itself ( at least i felt like it )
heh, ok thanks
. I really need to start reading those comics so I can know all this stuff 
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I was really trying to dislike the episode so I could grumble about waiting four months and it not being good, but I loved it. The only thing I had issue with were the bugs. I really feel the game needs to be better ported to the 360. The "previously on" section took about five minutes to run because of how much stuttering there was, and it wasn't isolated. Some amusing moments I got to observe included...
I'm willing to forgive a lot of the graphical glitches because of how much I love the art style, but c'mon.
The episode is almost entirely about trying to learn new information, I can forgive that If I could use it, which I didn't.
About all (except poor little Clem-I mean TJ) the characters I spoke to were unreasonably tight lipped. They had info that could be useful at times, even to the plot, but the little pieces they knew were not at all worth hiding. It just felt unnatural, existing only to slow you down. I had to try to get them to talk, but what hey gave me wasn't at all reason enough to hide it.
It gives you the means to make an impact in the story, but you never really make anything change at all.
Okay let's say the delays and season passes, and glitches are irrelevant for one second.
Correct me if I am wrong as I make this analysis. E1:
Battles 3. (Woody in his place, Alley with Tweedledee, Bar with gren )
Deaths: 2 (Faith and 'snow'. Optional third Prince Laurence?)
Locations Traveled: 4 (Woody/toads apartment building, PL&Faiths home, The luxury apartment building/BigB's home, & Holly's bar)
E2:
Battles: 2-ish (Interrogation room violence is canon, & hotel--Beast battle. Optional third is Georgie. )
Deaths: 0 (Snowwhite impersonator actually died last chapter. Dispite her death being used a lot as a plot device in this chapter)
Locations traveled: 5 (The luxury apartment building, underground, Holly's bar, strip club, & Hotel)
Yes???
(Con) I felt bored and rushed in episode two. It was more like watching an M.night Shyamalan movie, by Nostalgia Critics description (of Avatar last airbender). "It's all explaining!!! Nothing is even happening!?" The battles were so lack luster in contrast to the thrilling ones from E1.
(Pro) The diversity of the strip clubs gender depictions are the constructs of dreams. I only wish more videogames were as inclusive to half naked dudes as this was. I think it's a great and beneficiary cultural(?) step.
There are plenty more pros and cons but those are all pretty much well covered by others and their posts. I really felt like bringing this to the table and this thread is the perfect outlet, I guess.
I feel that way too.I wish it was longer:The fight with beast and the coices were kind'a short.
lol i only count the battle with beast as a fight not really with the other dudes
no you're not but if people disliked the game they have a right to give their opinion and hopefully telltale reads these posts and fixes their problems in episode 3 so that everyone is happy
i'm with phyre on this.
"Interrogation room violence is canon"
I'm not so sure about that. In the comics, when Bigby has Jack detained at one point and Bluebeard tries to torture info out of him, Bigby immediately transforms into his full wolf form and threatens to rip 'Beard's throat out if he doesn't back off.
Oh? I'm strictly talking about the situations pertaining to the videogame, in E2. As You can play 'nice guy' no one get hurt---however B.Beard attacks you. Which is a violent confrontation. Or you can go through the interrogation violently... which... is violent. So there's no way to get out of a fight in that one scene, even if the fight is rather one sided when you're beating on a stationary target//the prisoner.
I do appreciate the glimpse you've given me into the comic though your words though. I've been meaning to get more into the comics since playing the game. C: Thank you.
No problem, good sir. Fighting Bluebeard is pretty short compared to Ep 1's bits, though. Damn Snow, interrupting a cool fight scene just about to get into swing.
I totally agree!
I have to add that I don't think Crane is the killer. They made it too obvious! He just has some wierd fantasies and someone took pics of him doing them. Thus, planting evidence at the crime scene.
Knowing TTGs if Snow hadn't been around to interfere they probably would have made Crane grow some balls to break it up. What a sight that would be though.
Great list, spike1.
I admit that upon playing the episode, I wasn't even that aware of many faults, but seeing the arguments concentrated like that, yeah, I'm scratching my head a bit as well.
That doesn't mean I agree with all those points of course. I especially do not see 'major storyline changes'. The narrative skeleton of episode 2 was probably planned a year ago, including the cliffhanger, and did not change. What this episode needed, at the absolute basic level, was interrogation scene - Snow's return - postmortem examination - Crane revelation.
Everything else is, more or less, a narrative extra. There's a row of new characters - Jack, the Mermaid, Georgie Porgie, Hans - which will play a part in later episodes. They could have been introduced in later episodes without problems. The same is true for the reoccurrence of episode 1 characters: Prince Lawrence was obviously planned for episode 2, but can still make an appearance in the three episodes to come.
Concerning episode length, that wasn't a problem for me. Telltale is more and more delivering interactive movie content, it's only natural that the episodes should be experienced in one sitting, or, with Hitchcock's words: "The length of a film should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder."
But while the episode wasn't majorly changed, it absolutely was cut to a certain degree. We'll have to differentiate here as well though. We'll have to perceive every single Telltale episode in history as 'cut' if we were to compare it with Telltale's original design plans for that episode. Telltale balances the time they have for an episode with the content they'd like to put in. If too many loose ends were left dangling in the final product, fans complained that the episode "felt rushed" starting in 2007. And often, Telltale would build up such a complex and foreshadowing story, and would postpone revelations from episode to episode, so that the last episode was necessarily too small to render an all encompassing closure ("Tales of Monkey Island").
So the question is not really if the episode was "changed", "cut" or "short". The question might be if the story was again planned too big, and the question might be if Telltale will eventually satisfyingly conclude all their readily opened story threads and character arcs.
They don't have all those problems with The Walking Dead - where the story is never ever 'complex' and character arcs can be concluded at any given time by just killing the character. They can't do that in The Wolf among Us. The problems with interactivity are an additional can of worms, but concentrating on the narrative exclusively, Telltale's storytelling abilities are on trial again here - they never were on the TWD series.
Episode 2 may be indicative of Telltale's overload and a Season that might not end too satisfactory. But I'm glad they put themselves to this test, and I'm looking forward to the hoops they'll have to jump through to still make the good things happen.
Sup.
I think that Phyre is right and everyone should stop going into the details and just enjoy this episode.
The relations between the murder victims are that they are both pink ribbon prostitutes from the same brothel, who were both decapitated and only their heads dumped on Bigsby's and Snow White's doorstep.
"Stop going into the details" = "close the forum".