Carver pretty dumb.
CuteClem
Banned
Carver pretty dumb.
And why is that? Because the part where he takes hostage and threatening Kenny, he took only adults. Instead of taking straight to the little girl at the age of 11 or 10 (Clementine) and finish it. Why for him to realize that she should scream or protect Alvin? This is silly. Every movie I've seen, if you have a small child hostages, threatening him.
What do you think?
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/43/TWD_S2_Carver_Revolver.jpg/600px-TWD_S2_Carver_Revolver.jpg
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Some people are more morally comfortable with going after adults you have done harm to them instead of small children
Carver wanted to hunt down his own group of people that humiliated him by escaping his community. Clementine wasn't one of them. Besides, why would he take her hostage without absolutely no reason to hurt her? He was not a blind, reckless bully.
Yes ... But then he also took her and threatened her with a gun ... he knew it would make Kenny go out. The truth is, I do not think he really would have shot her ... he kinda liked her from time to time.
I have a feeling English isn't your first language.
Yes. I'm sorry.
Never really thought about that. Fair point though.
It's cool, I meant no offense by it.
Carver wanted to kind of get a revenge plot going, killing Walt in revenge for his man, then getting revenge on Alvin. He probably took Clem to stop Kenny, he didn't want to calm the situation at first, just to get revenge
I think it's because Carver isn't a complete monster like some people think, and didn't want to take a little girl hostage and threaten to shoot her. He only takes her hostage if she tells Kenny to stop shooting or tries to protect Alvin, because he realizes that she's the best leverage to force the shooter to surrender.
Carver outright says that he doesn't want to start lining people up and killing them, and only did so because they started shooting at him first. Threatening Clementine was a last resort to end the situation.
He knew it would make Kenny go out - not because he knew the nature of their relationship, it's because he threatened the little girl and morally, it will be terrible. He did not really want to kill the Clementine ...
This is probably true. I do not think he wanted to kill her, he knew Kenny would give up when the little girl would die.
Another point is that Carver doesn't actually know who's shooting at him. The best way to end the situation is to threaten someone the shooter cares about, but there's no way for him to do that if he doesn't know who the shooter is.
Carver's just pulling people up, one by one, until he finds the person the shooter cares about too much to risk. Clementine was going to be a last resort if no one else made the shooter stop. He only took Clementine hostage because the opportunity came up. Her yelling at Kenny to stop shooting implied that she had a relationship to the shooter, and her running at Carver pretty much forced him to hold her hostage.
Carver is really smart ... but he did not shoot her, saw it in his eyes. He did not really want to hurt a little girl.
I would have to agree that Carver is dumb, but for other reasons.
One example is murdering your most loyal subject by pushing him off the roof over berries of all things, but not doing the same to either Clementine or Sarah for failing the task given, and then there's not even bothering to finish off Kenny, who did nothing but go against him in almost every way and help plan the group to escape from the community.
And speaking of murdering your most loyal subject, Reggie's murder causes your other loyal subjects to lose faith in you and inevitably betray you in the end.
Yup! In Harm's Way ruined Carver and his character hardcore!
I don't thing you care about morality after you just executed one and possibly two innocent men.
Reggie wasn't strictly killed over the berries. Carver wanted to get rid of Reggie for quite a while, but instead of simply killing him, he fabricated a bunch of situations that Reggie would be doomed to screw up, as a way to justify punishment, and to toy with him. Given Carver's character type and sociopathic tendencies, that type of behavior is right up his alley. All the greenhouse situation did was give Carver a final excuse -- the third strike he's been waiting for -- to finally justify the decision to kill him. If picking the berries went off without a hitch, Carver would have eventually found another job for Reggie to fail, which would lead to the same outcome. Reggie was dead as soon he helped the cabin group escape the first time.
I imagine that Carver sparing Reggie's life after he helped them escape was simply under pretense, and that he planned to kill him from the very beginning. He probably just thought it would be more entertaining to watch Reggie try to earn back his trust, only to crush it right in front of him. Even that one guard (and most likely a few others) believed that Carver wasn't going to let Reggie back into the group either way.
The scene with the walkie-talkie is pretty heavily implied to be in a similar vein: he beats Kenny into submission, despite the fact that he complied and handed over the radio. Of course, you could argue that's due to the fact that Kenny has been the most defiant of the new arrivals, but I still have the suspicion that even if someone besides Kenny handed over the radio, someone would have wound up getting hurt (if not killed) regardless. He'd probably say something to the effect of "Thank you for coughing up the radio, but this kind of behavior cannot go unpunished" and proceed to beat Luke senseless.
And in the case of Kenny, I don't think he anticipated Kenny to be up and moving for quite a while. Being beaten into unconsciousness, receiving a severe orbital fracture, a possible broken nose, and potential brain damage in the process isn't something that the average person shakes off too quickly. For all intents and purposes, that's the kind of damage that should have put Kenny out of commission for a few days. Carver made the wrong assumption that Kenny should have been incapacitated for at least a few days, and that he wouldn't be walking it off by the end of the day.
Then there's the fact that the only reason he stops beating him is because of Bonnie mentioning a breach. If Bonnie didn't show up, he most likely would have kept going until he killed him. Carver even mentions in his last moments that he should have killed him, and his remark of Kenny having a thick skull is, quite frankly, true in this situation. I wouldn't really pin this on Carver being stupid. A timely distraction, and Kenny's physical fortitude are the things that both saved Kenny and screwed Carver.
I'll admit that I used the berries plan to quickly summarise Carver's logic in killing Reggie without going too much into depth with the real reason why Carver killed him, and thank you for taking the time to explain it in more detail.
I agree that Reggie was doomed to die from the moment he helped the group to escape the first time and I can understand Carver's twisted and elaborate set up to bring his downfall no matter what he does, but it was still Carver's decision to kill a very loyal ally, as opposed to Kenny who would have been a bigger threat to Carver's community than Reggie who clearly suffers from Stockholm Syndrome and would have been eager to get into Carver's good side again. Because of his actions, his own men ended up perceiving him as a madman who killed his own loyal and trustworthy ally for a small slight, causing them to lose faith in Carver.
Had Carver been smarter, he would have agreed that Reggie was punished enough and proceed to eliminate Kenny, who is clearly the bigger threat of the two. Since barely anybody (besides Clementine and Sarita) knows Kenny all that much, except that he's a random stranger with anger problems, who refuses to do any work for the community, had attacked one of the men because he didn't like being told what to do, accidentally allowed walkers to temporarily break into the community and nearly killed Clementine (a girl who Carver was growing accustomed to), and was secretly planning to escape from the place. Would anyone in the community want to put up with this madman who is threatening to destroy everthing they worked for to keep them safe from the walkers?
With this bargaining chip on hand, it would be easy to convince his own men that Kenny is a threat to his people and persuade them that killing him would be for the best of the community. Bonnie's intervention was due to Carver killing Reggie, and thus causing her to doubt him, except that in this situation Reggie would be alive and would vouch for Carver's justification in killing Kenny thank to his Stockholm Syndrome, and thus Bonnie would do nothing to stop Kenny's demise...if it weren't for the radio plan, that is.
As for the radio plan, this could possibly cause Bonnie to turn traitor due to her affection for Luke, who was the mastermind behind the escape plan, and yet it was Kenny who owns up to the radio plan. I can see her intervening then, and the scene could still play out the same as the original.
...Except that just as the group leaves near the end of the episode, Carver should have been smart enough to bring his own men to ambush the group rather than to do the deed alone, which gets him killed by Kenny. The group would have not been able to escape as easily, if at all, especially with his men backing him up as they attempt to bring them back inside or shoot them all down.