I'm really mad at the adults in this game
CuteClem
Banned
I'm really mad at the adults in this game.
- They send a little girl in dangerous missions.
- When Kenny Carver killed, even if Clementine did not want to go, it is possible to pick her up and take her away! She's fucking 11 year old girl!
- After everyone Take Carver. They dared to leave the Clementine alone! They had more important to find Sarah. No matter how Clementine is strong, adults are and are not responsible for the weak whom.
She fucking kid ... If I was there, and I'm age 17 (6.5 years over Clementine) I keep it, give her love of big brother .... hugs her and shows her worry. It's not Kenny and Jane did not care about her ... But they referred to as a courier, someone always manages to All ... is just a little girl ... It's annoying. Not you?
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i hope ... poor Clem
Well that means everyone except clem, duck, and gill.
No.
That is Season 2 in the nutshell.
Cabin group locks her up in the shed then she has to take their orders (Stay away from Sarah and Alvin(if he helped you), watch Sarah because somehow Rebecca can't stay with her, watch over Nick even though that is what Luke was supposed to do, check the dangerous and unsteady bridge instead of three capable men, talk to stranger that could shoot you, check out the shack and bring food to Rebecca, check out the bridge because she is the only capable, turn off the wind turbine because everyone is a dumbass and so on and so on...)
Bringing Kenny is also another reason why people are forcing Clem to do stupid crap. Talk to Kenny or do something with him because he's a dick to everyone and everyone is scared of him, not to mention he bosses her around too. (I still like him, though)
Bonnie is probably the most bossiest of them all, especially at the lake scene, what a stupidity..
Seriously, what kind of people forces a kid to get the radio from a stock room where there are guards everywhere (luckily guards can't notice for shit), get happy that the baby is born when a teenage girl was eaten alive underneath a deck a few seconds ago, protects the teen boy who sent his group to take their supplies, leaves with him also, not to mention some other bullshit.
God, help me!
edit: also the fucking ladder! Why can't Luke climb?!
Get over it for fuck's sake...
Yeah. Most of them are dead.
I do have an imagination to be in the game as 16 years old and protect Clem as my own little sister. She is not Lara Croft lol.
That's probably the main problem with having Clem as the playable character. They need to have the player feel involved in events but it comes with the consequence of the adults seeming completely incompetent.
But if they made the adults do things rather than Clem then you know people would complain that they don't get to do enough, so there's no winning either way.
I'm just going to shamelessly plug and copy/paste this post I made way earlier about how I mostly disagree with this viewpoint:
You know, I really think people blow this out of proportion
I never got the impression that every single adult character went into damsel-mode and Clementine was some end-all fixer of every problem
I just saw her as being the character best suited to the tasks at hand (more or less, with the exception of a few scenes, like the wind turbine)
Most of the scenes with Luke actually fit with his general character. He's a reckless, dare-devil type dude. Why does he have Clementine cross the bridge or do other potentially dangerous things? Because he sees Clementine as more than a kid, and he doesn't really see the harm in it. He's a guy that jumped across rooftops when he was a kid, of course he'd project a bit of that mindset onto Clementine as well.
Carlos asking Clementine to look after Sarah? He doesn't even particularly want to. He can even say that he doesn't want to trust her, but he has to:
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Either Clementine, the kid he doesn't really know goes out into the woods on a possible rescue-mission and he stays behind, they all go together and leave Sarah behind to fend for herself, or Clementine stays there with Sarah where both of them are relatively safe. There really isn't any good choice to be made in that situation, and in his mind, it's kind of a lose-lose no matter what, so he chose what he believed to be the best option available.
Characters asking Clementine what they should do? Half of the time that anyone truly asks for her input is when she's the only other person around at the time. You go to find Kenny during the hostage situation at the end of A House Divided? She's the only other person by his side. If anything, it's probably a good thing that he even asks Clementine about whether or not he should take a shot or not.
A similar thing exists with the rest of the characters. Pete and Alvin share scenes where you're the only other person with them. Pete asks you to look out for Nick because you're the only person there that that will hear out his dying wishes. Same goes for Alvin if he survives episode 2. They're not even specifically asking you to look out for their loved ones as much as they're asking you to ask the rest of the group to look out for them.
Carlos asking you to talk to the rest of the ski lodge group? He makes a point in saying that they trust her, and given that she already knows one of the members of said group, that also gives her more credence as far as trust goes. His request is quite valid in that regard.
Alvin asking you to check out the station house at the bridge? Sure, a bit of a lazy-ass to do that, but is there truly any danger involved in doing that? Think about it: the lodge is small, it has a bunch a windows, and Matthew just came from over there. There is absolutely no reason that a walker would be inside there, nor any booby-traps or an ambush waiting to happen. And if anything was in there, you'd be able to see it from the safety of the giant windows looking right into the building.
Alvin asking if you can let him keep the can of food for Rebecca? At most, it's a bit of a selfish move, but only with the best interests for his wife and unborn child. And if Clementine calls him out on asking her to do that, he'll quickly backpedal on the idea and agree that the rest of the group should decide.
Carlos asking you to help calm Sarah down in the herd? Desperation mostly, and the realization that you're her friend, or someone at the very least that might be able to get through to her better than he can.
Trying to convince Sarah to get up and escape the trailer park? Clementine is pretty much the last resort at that point. Luke has been in there for who knows how long trying to talk to her, and has been unsuccessful. Clementine is the only other person that Sarah knows, and the only other person that has a shot at getting through to her. Luke doesn't want to just leave her to die, he wants to make sure she gets out safe. As the walkers start to break through, he reluctantly realizes that Jane might be right about them not being able to help her in time.
Kenny telling Clementine to do potentially dangerous stuff? To be fair, the only notably dangerous position he puts her in is giving the radio to Luke. Even then, he actually does have some valid ground to stand on in his reasoning; he's been the most defiant of the prisoners. He already broke out of his restraints and started a fight with Mike. He's basically the worst possible choice to even get the radio to Luke because he's already attracted too much heat. He also trusts her more than he does Mike, a guy that he doesn't even know in any way shape or form. He might be more able-bodied than Clementine, but how does he even know that Mike is truly on their side? Not to mention that by proxy, Mike is also in a bit of trouble since Kenny decided to start shit with him. Troy even makes mention that he's going to keep a watchful eye on both of them. I don't see how either of them would be able to get inside that comic store without Troy smacking them around before they could even reach the door. Clementine has the least amount of heat and suspicion up to that moment.
Kenny telling Clementine to look around the yard to find a way out? This isn't even particularly dangerous for her in particular. At the end of the day, she's still a kid, and I think most people realize that even if she's a hardened survivor, there's still some amount of innocence and childlike curiosity in there. If anything, it was more dangerous for Reggie than anyone else. Troy mentions that he wants Reggie to help keep things quiet regarding the new arrivals. Reggie himself mentions that they're expecting him to keep things in line. And if you do attract attention, Troy just blames Reggie and holds him accountable.
Getting the walkie-talkies at Howe's? First of all, the radios are kept in the stock room. Given that they lock the door that leads to the yard, they are not able to simply mosey over to it. Secondly, the path to the stock room is in direct view of Carver's office, as well as the rest of the hardware store. So if they were somehow able to open the door, they'd have to walk out in plain sight to even reach the stock room. Moreover, since the ladder is purposely cut, the only way for an adult to reach the roof is via the stairwell that is behind Carver's office. Ergo, there's no way for them to personally get up there undetected or without having to travel right past the office. So in the same way as before, there's no way to get to the roof without walking out in the open. So what does that leave them with? The winch. The winch that has already been shown to be quite flimsy (Rebecca flat-out mentions that it breaks frequently, and you see it fail to lift a sack of soil up). For all intents and purposes, for that specific task, Clementine is literally the only person able to get to the roof, and by extension, the only one that reliably has a shot at reaching the stock room.
Furthermore, the same applies to getting into Carver's office for the PA system. Even more so, consider that Carver and his guards would be even more cautious of our group. They'd practically shoot on sight if they saw any one of us trying to do something unsupervised. They don't know that Clementine was the one that grabbed the radios, nor do they suspect her in particular. Given that they caught Luke, and Kenny is the one to fess up the radio (on top of him already being incredibly defiant), they have no real reason to believe that Clementine was the one that managed to procure the radios in the first place. Once again, Clementine is the best candidate to get up there and turn it on.
Rebecca asking you to bring Alvin with you? She doesn't mean for Clementine to bring him out on her back. Remember the layout of Howe's; the stairwell to the roof is right outside of Carver's office. If climbing up to the skylight isn't an option, then simply going up the stairs to the roof and dropping into the stock room is. Rebecca most likely didn't think (or was in denial of the fact) that Alvin was that badly injured that he'd be unable to move on his own and make an escape.
Talking to Kenny in episodes 4 and 5? Backed up by the fact that she knows Kenny the most, and is the only person that shares a previous relationship of any form with him. They all recognize that if there are two people Kenny listens to, it's Sarita and Clementine. With Sarita out of the picture, Clem becomes the only other person that seems to be able to talk any kind of sense into him. They recognize that she's one of the few people that act as a kind of leash or tether for him. Even if Clementine doesn't like him that much, the feeling isn't exactly reciprocated by Kenny; he still has a soft spot for her, regardless of her disposition towards him.
Crawling through the ticket booth? This scene is unique in that it's quite self-aware. You can just call Bonnie right out on having you do something stupid, and she goes right back on that idea and does it herself. And again, Bonnie's the only one really telling Clementine to do that. Mike's not even in on it, and he didn't even realize that Bonnie was implying that Clementine should go through.
Going back for Luke? Bonnie's the only one that's even telling her to, and it's more a knee-jerk reaction from her being worried about Luke (small kid = less weight = lower chance of ice breaking). Luke and the rest are actively telling her not to, and that it is too dangerous.
Coming up with a plan to escape Howe's? It's not even Clementine coming up with things there, they figure things out on their own. Kenny comes up with using the herd to get out, Luke comes up with getting the radios so they can keep an eye on the guards (and the herd), and Jane is the one that suggests using walker guts. The only thing Clementine does is mention doing both Luke and Kenny's plans at once, and even then, if you stay silent, Mike quickly brings that up. None of the adults are even asking her about these plans. Hell, none of them are even expecting her to contribute. They don't all stare at her like "what do you think, professor?" every time one of them tosses an idea out.
Discussing whether to leave Howe's that night or bide their time? Again, Clementine barely plays a role in that argument. She's just another person voicing her choice on the matter. She isn't even a swing-vote here. And none of them directly make note of what she says all like "you're right Clem, we should leave right now!"
And the same goes for all the various arguments that the group has throughout each episode. Clementine isn't exactly solving any of the problems anyone has. More than half of the time, she's just stating the obvious that everyone else would have realized within the next 10 seconds regardless of her being there. Telling people to stop arguing? So what, they realize 5 seconds later that they're being stupid and agree to shut up, or someone else chimes in and tells them to stop arguing anyways. Clementine's not doing anything important here, other than being the first person to say something that someone else would have said anyways.
I think that covers most scenes that people generally cite when the argument of "everyone in S2 is a braindead and/or incompetent moron, and Clementine has to do everything herself" pops up. There's probably a few other scenes I forgot to mention, but most of those are most likely the same case as above.
Seriously, about the only scene that is really pushing it is the wind turbine one. And in all honesty, there's just no defending that scene, and it really didn't have to exist in the first place. They could have just had Carlos or Sarita take a look, ask if someone has a light, have Clementine give them the lighter and bam, mission accomplished.
Some interesting points. I agree that the stuff about the stuff about the group being braindead or over reliant on Clementine is exaggerated at times. One thing I did notice though is that there was definitely vibes of characters being overly clingy to Clementine. It started with Luke on the bridge when he was acting like they were best pals and on some exciting adventure together, when they barely even knew each other. Then Rebecca sharing a load of personal shit about the father of the baby, which Clementine had no business knowing, Kenny who I guess was somewhat justified since he had known her for years before, Bonnie always apologising and insisting that this kid could trust her(why not tell that to some of the higher ups in the group). Even Carver started doing it with his bizzare ramblings that him and Clementine were similar. Then Jane came along and seemed to take the clingyness to new levels.
Having said that I understand why it was done and that characters need to have a lot of interaction with Clementine, and it didn't negatively affect the storyline for me.