Persona 5 Scramble (for the Switch) is looking to be more like Persona 5: 2 with real-time combat elements.
There's a calendar system, … morethe visual style has been perfectly replicated, typical Persona elements of being normal teens doing summer stuff... This looks cool.
So it's official now, the three best sci-fi icons got destroyed by Hollywood in a row:
Alien = facehugged by Covenant in 2017
Predator = hunted by his victim's version of The Predator in 2018
Terminator = terminated by Dark Fate in 2019
You know what's even funny about those movies? They all had people who were involved in the very first films and were the best hope for the latest sequels but failed miserably. That case being:
Ridley Scott, director of the first Alien film
Shane Black, one of the stars of the first Predator film
James Cameron, director and writer of the first 2 Terminator films
I hate to break it to ya, but predator and terminator have been dead long before their most recent adaptation. as someone who loved prometheus though, yeah it's really fuckin sad that covenant is bad : (
So it's official now, the three best sci-fi icons got destroyed by Hollywood in a row:
* Alien = facehugged by Covenant in 2017
* Pred… moreator = hunted by his victim's version of The Predator in 2018
* Terminator = terminated by Dark Fate in 2019
You know what's even funny about those movies? They all had people who were involved in the very first films and were the best hope for the latest sequels but failed miserably. That case being:
* Ridley Scott, director of the first Alien film
* Shane Black, one of the stars of the first Predator film
* James Cameron, director and writer of the first 2 Terminator films
Yeah! Burn those Vegans, LGBT defenders, and even those Peace and Love Hippies!!
... All they want to do in life is give those poor devs an 88% cut on the Epic Games Store and we can't let them!
Ah yes, the poor racists. When will society finally acknowledge their existence as a non-hateful community?
Judging by the font I'm assuming this is from Reddit? r/FuckEpic?
how the fuck did gamers go from "censoring boobs is not cool" to "if you support minorities and the lgbt community i hate you and will fucking kill you"
It's been all that rising up they've been doing! We need to shove them back down!
The lack of any proper moderation by YouTube and Reddit is partly to blame. Regardless of how toxic a channel or community is they don't pay much attention to them until it begins affecting the ad revenue, and even then they hardly do anything and being banned is such an easy thing to bypass. Plus, it's so easy to stumble upon a channel or subreddit that's sole purpose is to spread ignorance and hate that it's not surprising that a newcomer to either of these websites would be able to come in contact with this type of "content." It certainly doesn't help that if you watch one video on YouTube, your recommendations will just be filled with similar trash.
how the fuck did gamers go from "censoring boobs is not cool" to "if you support minorities and the lgbt community i hate you and will fucking kill you"
Ah yes, the poor racists. When will society finally acknowledge their existence as a non-hateful community?
Judging by the font I'm assuming this is from Reddit? r/FuckEpic?
Netflix/Vox's "Explained" has a pretty cool episode on Cults, and the internet could be considered full of mini-cults like that. (19:32 is where that segment begins)
Not surprising they exist, but I'm surprised they could be defined like that.
Playing Skyrim and was doing the quest where you have to acquire the Nettlebane. Killed the Hagraven and looted her chest. I usually just do… more a quick scan of the items and use the take all button. I noticed one specific item in the chest, but I was too late to stop my finger from pressing the trigger. I looted the chest. And then suddenly...
"A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON!"
Fuck.
I still not sure how I should feel about it, if anything.
I will give it credit that it looks like it's gonna be quite visual and climactic. But then that's sorta the thing, isn't it?
You have to be careful with such approaches as well, because the more you try and censor, silence, and shut down, not only do they become more vocal, but others rush to their cause to defend them. You make them the victim when you actively target them like that, and people side with victims. I'm by no means justifying anything that douchebag said, but to "shove them back down" and to give more moderation and control to entities that can abuse those types of powers and quash any type of speech they deem hateful is equally dangerous and harmful. And to have some overpowered entity try and tell me and others what is the acceptable viewpoint denies me my personal autonomy and right to free speech. I find the answer to such problems is not more censorship, but the free and open exchange of ideas. Instead of shutting down, let them say shit like this, and anyone with any sense of rational thinking can see them for the morons and bigots they are. Because once you ask them to provide their reasoning, let them explain themselves, and ask for the evidence or facts, they have nothing to fall back on. You want these people to go away, you want others to avoid siding with them, then challenge them, don't censor them.
It's been all that rising up they've been doing! We need to shove them back down!
The lack of any proper moderation by YouTube and Reddit… more is partly to blame. Regardless of how toxic a channel or community is they don't pay much attention to them until it begins affecting the ad revenue, and even then they hardly do anything and being banned is such an easy thing to bypass. Plus, it's so easy to stumble upon a channel or subreddit that's sole purpose is to spread ignorance and hate that it's not surprising that a newcomer to either of these websites would be able to come in contact with this type of "content." It certainly doesn't help that if you watch one video on YouTube, your recommendations will just be filled with similar trash.
TLJ almost took that spot of the movie that pissed me off the worst but it has a few moments that are decent. I'm already getting worried that Episode 9 isn't going fix anything.
The freaking set ups that were technically ignored in the sequels, they are now just there for no reason. You can easily tell Disney had no idea what to do with the new trilogy. Rian Johnson didn't give two shits about JJ's draft version of TLJ.
Well, yeah.
Which is what I was getting at with the trailer--I have no clue what I should be expecting or thinking about if I go to this movie and that's no good.
The freaking set ups that were technically ignored in the sequels, they are now just there for no reason. You can easily tell Disney had no idea what to do with the new trilogy. Rian Johnson didn't give two shits about JJ's draft version of TLJ.
I was just reading this news article explaining the whole #TeamTrees thing going on, and in the middle of the article, out pops an ad for a sawmill company, complete with a picture of a tree getting sawed in half.
Gee, thanks internet. How ironic you seem to be today.
I find the answer to such problems is not more censorship, but the free and open exchange of ideas. Instead of shutting down, let them say shit like this, and anyone with any sense of rational thinking can see them for the morons and bigots they are. Because once you ask them to provide their reasoning, let them explain themselves, and ask for the evidence or facts, they have nothing to fall back on.
I get what you mean by censoring them not being the best course of action as it may only make them feel more victimised regardless of whatever hypocrisy they're spouting. The problem with this, especially with Reddit is that reasoning does absolutely nothing. Subreddits have a tendency to become self praising echo chambers, regardless of what facts and logic you throw their way. There is no "free and open exchange of ideas". If you even try to go against the grain in a toxic subreddit you're more than likely gonna get the ban hammer. Of course I don't believe that every "toxic" subreddit should be banned, but the ones that end up promoting ideologies/actions that could or can harm the well being of other people absolutely should.
You have to be careful with such approaches as well, because the more you try and censor, silence, and shut down, not only do they become mo… morere vocal, but others rush to their cause to defend them. You make them the victim when you actively target them like that, and people side with victims. I'm by no means justifying anything that douchebag said, but to "shove them back down" and to give more moderation and control to entities that can abuse those types of powers and quash any type of speech they deem hateful is equally dangerous and harmful. And to have some overpowered entity try and tell me and others what is the acceptable viewpoint denies me my personal autonomy and right to free speech. I find the answer to such problems is not more censorship, but the free and open exchange of ideas. Instead of shutting down, let them say shit like this, and anyone with any sense of rational thinking can see them for the morons and bigots they are. Be… [view original content]
Yeah I can agree that places like Reddit and YouTube do form mini-cults. I could easily name a few subreddits that would fall under this category. It can get pretty bad if you're an active user of either sites.
Netflix/Vox's "Explained" has a pretty cool episode on Cults, and the internet could be considered full of mini-cults like that. (19:32 is where that segment begins)
Not surprising they exist, but I'm surprised they could be defined like that.
Oh. Yeah, the sniping is temptingly broken, from what I recall.
But I mostly meant in regards to what sort of quests, interests, or code your character is intended to have.
I'm playing as an Imperial for the extra money perk
And I'm doing a stealth archer run because I like being a sneaky ninja, even if it's a bit OP at times.
You'll never be able to change the hearts and minds of the stubborn and stupid, that was never the point. It's not like I can go up to David Duke and say "Don't be racist, it's not cool" and he'll just listen to me. What you can do, however, is convince others to not listen to them, and that's the ultimate goal. Trying to quash them actually gives them what they want, you put more attention on them and bring their "ideas" from the underground and into the minds of others. Most will know its bigoted, but a small group will latch onto it, causing their numbers to grow. Challenge them and expose them as the frauds they are, they won't change, but you stop others from jumping on board with them, that's the point I'm making. You want these ideas you disagree with to not become mainstream or pick up any traction, stop trying to cut off its head. These people are like a hydra, if you try, two more will take their place. And if they want to keep to their low corners of the internet and live in their fact-less safe spaces and echo chambers, then fine, we can't stop them, at least then they're not bothering anyone unless someone comes along and is actively looking for them OR one of them is outright going after someone else. If you know a particular subreddit is toxic, but they aren't doing anything to personally harm or threaten you, then don't even bother, ignore them. That means their ideas aren't getting into the hearts and minds of others. I didn't know of any subreddit or a post like this until it was mentioned a page ago, I was living in blissful ignorance.
Unless the speech is an outright call or threat of violence against another person or group, then it is protected under one's right to free speech. And as much as you and I hate what they might be saying and couldn't agree less with them, the fact remains that they are entitled to it and we cannot revoke that, and social media platforms like Reddit are tools for one to exercise their rights. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Evelyn Beatrice Hall - The Friends of Voltaire. Because as soon as we allow one's rights to be limited or reduced, we open the way for more revocations of rights and liberties, and that to me is far more dangerous than what some basement dwelling neckbeard is spouting on his keyboard.
Who are you, or I for that matter, to decide ideologies are harmful to others. Some might fall under an objective scope of "harmful" or bigoted, but with everyone, there is a gray area. Someone might be completely pro-choice and find all pro-life viewpoints as worthy of censorship, even if its the more moderate viewpoint. Should that person's right to be pro-life, especially if its because of one's religious beliefs, be deemed harmful because it hurts someone else? Who and what determines what ideologies are harmful? I've been told my support of a capitalist, free market society is harmful. I've seen viewpoints on the left and the right be deemed harmful by someone, imagine if that person had the power to say what is and what isn't acceptable? I find that very troubling.
I find the answer to such problems is not more censorship, but the free and open exchange of ideas. Instead of shutting down, let them say s… morehit like this, and anyone with any sense of rational thinking can see them for the morons and bigots they are. Because once you ask them to provide their reasoning, let them explain themselves, and ask for the evidence or facts, they have nothing to fall back on.
I get what you mean by censoring them not being the best course of action as it may only make them feel more victimised regardless of whatever hypocrisy they're spouting. The problem with this, especially with Reddit is that reasoning does absolutely nothing. Subreddits have a tendency to become self praising echo chambers, regardless of what facts and logic you throw their way. There is no "free and open exchange of ideas". If you even try to go against the grain in a toxic subreddit you're more than likely gonna get the ban hammer. Of c… [view original content]
I would personally say r/fuckepic should be shut down as its just a cult at this point. When they arnt saying shit like anti-racist, they are turning threads into "anyone agree we should kill the gays" and then the threads get completely removed to try and hide it. Its happening more and more frequently. Then when they are talking about Epic its extremely misinformed and a ton of obvious fake anecdotal stories that didnt happen and clearly just misinformation in attempts to fear monger things that arnt accurate. The sub is basically a cult that only causes problems. Basically I feel theres no real harm in "silencing free speech" when the speech is just "I am a hateful person who wants to cause hate and tell very obviously wrong info to try and get you to join me."
You'll never be able to change the hearts and minds of the stubborn and stupid, that was never the point. It's not like I can go up to David… more Duke and say "Don't be racist, it's not cool" and he'll just listen to me. What you can do, however, is convince others to not listen to them, and that's the ultimate goal. Trying to quash them actually gives them what they want, you put more attention on them and bring their "ideas" from the underground and into the minds of others. Most will know its bigoted, but a small group will latch onto it, causing their numbers to grow. Challenge them and expose them as the frauds they are, they won't change, but you stop others from jumping on board with them, that's the point I'm making. You want these ideas you disagree with to not become mainstream or pick up any traction, stop trying to cut off its head. These people are like a hydra, if you try, two more will take their place. And if they want to keep to t… [view original content]
So if the threads are getting removed, for whatever reason that may be, then it seems like someone is actually doing their job. Obviously something like that is not protected under free speech, and the removal of it was the right decision. My point, however, still stands, who is the arbitrator of what is deemed acceptable and not, who is the judge of free speech? When that is put in the hands of someone, you open the way for an abuse of power, and power like that in the hands of the wrong people leads to bad outcomes. As Telltale fans, we know this all too well as they gave Kevin Bruner the power of CEO, and look what happened to the company. A toxic work culture, horrible mismanagement, decreasing sales, so on and so forth. Power is corrupting, regardless of what that power is, and I'm hesitant to relinquish something under the guise of someone saying "Don't worry, I'll protect you from the bad man."
I know nothing about the r/fuckepic subreddit, but what should happen is that if there are people simply using this subreddit to spew random bullshit that has nothing to do with the Epic Game Store, than they should be removed from the subreddit. Whatever views they have are their own, they are not being punished for having those views, they're being punished and removed for purposely deviating from the point of the subreddit. An outright deletion of the subreddit should be a last resort after every other attempt has been tried and failed. If there is another alternative, I'd much rather see that. Frankly, my solution is still the same: ignore it, and it goes away. Don't give them the time of day, don't worry about what 30-40 (if their numbers are even that high) people are saying. While what they're saying is repugnant, that's all it is, just words.
What @lupinb0y said earlier is true, subreddits dedicated to hating something are "ass." You know what kind of shit you're getting when you see a subreddit called "fuckepic," a bunch of bitch-ass teenagers or man babies complaining about something because they have nothing better to do, thinking they're so cool for saying dumb shit like "Should we kill the gays?" Leave them to their tiny corners, they'll all fade away into nothing eventually.
I would personally say r/fuckepic should be shut down as its just a cult at this point. When they arnt saying shit like anti-racist, they ar… moree turning threads into "anyone agree we should kill the gays" and then the threads get completely removed to try and hide it. Its happening more and more frequently. Then when they are talking about Epic its extremely misinformed and a ton of obvious fake anecdotal stories that didnt happen and clearly just misinformation in attempts to fear monger things that arnt accurate. The sub is basically a cult that only causes problems. Basically I feel theres no real harm in "silencing free speech" when the speech is just "I am a hateful person who wants to cause hate and tell very obviously wrong info to try and get you to join me."
Theres a ton of problems with it. A big problem is the mods dont actually disagree with what is being said, its only removed with no warning or repercussion to these people because they know it can get the sub deleted, not that they actually think what that person said was wrong. (I mean fuck sake that "anti-racist" thing somehow wasnt downvoted to Hell and was actually supported in its entirety instead of that small excerpt.) The Steam Fuck Epic group was deleted for Death Threats and brought back for one last chance and the mods there didnt actually scold people doing this stuff, just going "hey dont do it because we dont want the group gone." Just a very small slap on the hand for calls of violence, which does violate free speech. There was also a post before on fuckepic saying gays should be shot on the street that was going on for a long ass time before it was hidden. And yes somehow they all connect this to Epic so its still "on topic." Its also filled with people explaining how to pirate games, also illegal.
Its not really to say there should be someone who decides what should be passed or not as free speech. But in my opinion, speech that consist of scaring people into believing lies with greatly false info, explaining how to steal products, targeted harassment, and constantly calling for attacks on people, shouldnt be allowed.
(next time a big AAA game is announced as an Epic exclusive I recommend checking them out. Seeing the state of it now, the next AAA announcement is going to send it into a frenzy and it will most likely be as bad as ever. Highly recommend seeing the fucked shit they say over there when they get even more boiling than usual)
So if the threads are getting removed, for whatever reason that may be, then it seems like someone is actually doing their job. Obviously so… moremething like that is not protected under free speech, and the removal of it was the right decision. My point, however, still stands, who is the arbitrator of what is deemed acceptable and not, who is the judge of free speech? When that is put in the hands of someone, you open the way for an abuse of power, and power like that in the hands of the wrong people leads to bad outcomes. As Telltale fans, we know this all too well as they gave Kevin Bruner the power of CEO, and look what happened to the company. A toxic work culture, horrible mismanagement, decreasing sales, so on and so forth. Power is corrupting, regardless of what that power is, and I'm hesitant to relinquish something under the guise of someone saying "Don't worry, I'll protect you from the bad man."
I know nothing about the r/fuckepic su… [view original content]
Again though, why should I even give them any significant time of day? I've heard negative and bad things about it, therefore, I don't want anything to do with it. Giving them attention, in anyway, is what they want. When a toddler throws a tantrum, you don't succumb to their wishes.
As for the stuff like harassment or encouraging criminal activity, none of that as it is is considered free speech, you are right in that regard. No where did I advocate that it is or that it should be. I'm not saying that you think I was, I just want to make that clear because I think the main point of my argument is getting a bit blurred.
Free speech is an inherrent and inalienable right of all people. Threatening or calling for violence, or advocating criminal activity, is not free speech as it directly threatens the rights of other individuals. My fear, though, is that in pursuit of security, we become willing to give up certain freedoms. I never said that, if this type of behavior is as rampant as you said, it should never be dealt with, but I see it more as a last resort after legitimate efforts have been tried but the remaining problems continue to persist. If they do, then it should be shut down. The reason free speech came up as a whole was because I'm concerned over the immediate jump to censor and shut down something we may not like, not because I don't think people are violating certain rules or themselves abusing that right to begin with.
Spreading false or misleading information is a separate issue entirely. The question there is if Reddit considers itself a platform or a publisher. If Reddit is a publisher, than not only can the person who posted something on the website be held for libel/slander, but so could Reddit itself. If Reddit sees itself as more of a platform, then one could still theoretically pursue legal actions against users who post stuff on Reddit, but Reddit doesn't really have a stake in the matter. This, it becomes a little more tricky and isn't as straightforward as it seems.
Theres a ton of problems with it. A big problem is the mods dont actually disagree with what is being said, its only removed with no warning… more or repercussion to these people because they know it can get the sub deleted, not that they actually think what that person said was wrong. (I mean fuck sake that "anti-racist" thing somehow wasnt downvoted to Hell and was actually supported in its entirety instead of that small excerpt.) The Steam Fuck Epic group was deleted for Death Threats and brought back for one last chance and the mods there didnt actually scold people doing this stuff, just going "hey dont do it because we dont want the group gone." Just a very small slap on the hand for calls of violence, which does violate free speech. There was also a post before on fuckepic saying gays should be shot on the street that was going on for a long ass time before it was hidden. And yes somehow they all connect this to Epic so its still "on topic."… [view original content]
Yeah this is getting a bit blurred. I think the best way to put it is people like us just ignoring it isnt the best option imo. Just because we know these people are full of it and use a bunch of lies, it doesnt mean we should just ignore it because "who cares, Im not paying attention to them." At some point it needs to be said that what they are doing is wrong. Theres plenty of people unlike you and me who will fall for it, and will join it. And the more people join it because its being left uncheck, the larger the hate mobs get and larger the targeted harassment gets.
I fully understand where you're coming from as I do believe free speech is an important thing. I guess my argument is that the sub should be shut down because for the most part, a lot of it isnt free speech like youre saying. The "I think Epic bad" is very much used as an excuse for its "my free speech to say I dont like this thing" but it becomes more and more clear its an excuse to pirate games (and somehow stretch it into hate speech, I guess it just brings people over from the same boat.)
The sub just attracts the wrong crowd. So instead of it being about "game company bad" its "game company bad and I will also now apply some hate speech too." For the most part the sub makes up hoaxes which isnt illegal in this type of circumstance, but its purposely misleading. It should really just be closed because there are attempts they make to try and "clean it up" but it doesnt stop. (mostly because like I said before, the mods there fully agree with it, they just dont want the sub shut down because it breaks Reddit's rules so often) At this point the sub has lost all its focus as like I said, its now just starting to be used to get people into the "Epic is bad!" and then digging deeper you'll see its actually just a dog whistle for hateful people who want to cause harm.
Again though, why should I even give them any significant time of day? I've heard negative and bad things about it, therefore, I don't want … moreanything to do with it. Giving them attention, in anyway, is what they want. When a toddler throws a tantrum, you don't succumb to their wishes.
As for the stuff like harassment or encouraging criminal activity, none of that as it is is considered free speech, you are right in that regard. No where did I advocate that it is or that it should be. I'm not saying that you think I was, I just want to make that clear because I think the main point of my argument is getting a bit blurred.
Free speech is an inherrent and inalienable right of all people. Threatening or calling for violence, or advocating criminal activity, is not free speech as it directly threatens the rights of other individuals. My fear, though, is that in pursuit of security, we become willing to give up certain freedoms. I never said t… [view original content]
Well to be fair, I think everyone here, myself included and you certainly have as well, have said this is wrong. The grand majority of people think and know this is wrong. Therefore, failing to give them attention, credence, or recognition of any sorts prevents their drivel from possibly reaching an entire audience where a small (and I mean small) group can latch onto them, even if the larger audience recognizes it for what it is. I'm not saying ignore the overall ignorant beliefs, but ignore it so that where we're not giving it the attention it's craving, and thus, leading to it going away. Do not feed the beast, deny it sustenance instead. The news of an entire subreddit being shut down will spread a lot quicker than the reasoning as to why. I never knew of the subreddit, and thus, I never knew the problems with it, and that probably goes for a lot of people. All these people will hear is that a subreddit that is critical of the Epic Game Store got shut down, and they'll think "Well that doesn't sound right, why would they shut down a subreddit for those who have that opinion? This is censorship." And you might take away the subreddit, but they'll find another place to conjugate. Deleting it doesn't necessarily erase the problem, it just brings more attention to it.
Look at what just happened with Blizzard and Hong Kong. A competitor in one of their tournaments said during the stream he supported the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong. While that certainly gains attention, what got more and more people involved in the story was the overreaction of Blizzard. They banned him, they revoked his prize money, they cow-towed to China, workers walked out of the Blizzard office, all for this guy expressing his views. It made the whole situation worse because Blizzard tried to silence him. It didn't matter that Blizzard was technically following their own tournament rules in their actions and that the player knew the potential consequences, how it came off was that this guy expressed a certain viewpoint, and Blizzard punished him for it. It made headlines around the world and was in the news for days and weeks, while the original story of a guy supporting Hong Kong would have been a day, max. I've read and seen of similar things as well, across various political spectrums, and it's for those reasons that I probably turned a simple mocking of a toxic subreddit into a free speech dilemma (which I do apologize for, sorry, I know that wasn't the intent of your post).
If the sub has lost it's main focus and has devolved into stuff that is off topic, and I will take your word for it, then yes, it should be removed and shut down. However, be prepared for the possible ramifications with those actions, that's basically my point. Every action has a reaction, and you may delete subreddit, but it doesn't delete the problem. You might just be putting a band-aid over a still bleeding wound.
Yeah this is getting a bit blurred. I think the best way to put it is people like us just ignoring it isnt the best option imo. Just because… more we know these people are full of it and use a bunch of lies, it doesnt mean we should just ignore it because "who cares, Im not paying attention to them." At some point it needs to be said that what they are doing is wrong. Theres plenty of people unlike you and me who will fall for it, and will join it. And the more people join it because its being left uncheck, the larger the hate mobs get and larger the targeted harassment gets.
I fully understand where you're coming from as I do believe free speech is an important thing. I guess my argument is that the sub should be shut down because for the most part, a lot of it isnt free speech like youre saying. The "I think Epic bad" is very much used as an excuse for its "my free speech to say I dont like this thing" but it becomes more and more clear its an… [view original content]
I always play a nice guy (except when I can't like in the Thieves Guild or the Brotherhood of Assassins), but I pretty much do anything and everything. I don't really have a set goal in mind for my character.
I also did download a couple mods to help me avoid killing Paarthurnax (cause he's a cool guy) and do the Boethiah quest without sacrificing a follower.
Oh. Yeah, the sniping is temptingly broken, from what I recall.
But I mostly meant in regards to what sort of quests, interests, or code your character is intended to have.
I always play a nice guy (except when I can't like in the Thieves Guild or the Brotherhood of Assassins), but I pretty much do anything and … moreeverything. I don't really have a set goal in mind for my character.
I also did download a couple mods to help me avoid killing Paarthurnax (cause he's a cool guy) and do the Boethiah quest without sacrificing a follower.
The thing is, free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. They can say whatever they want in whatever way they see fit, but they shouldn't be surprised if they get punished for it.
Who are you, or I for that matter, to decide ideologies are harmful to others.
When they are telling people vaccines don't work, that an incident involving the deaths of multiple people didn't actually happen, when they are telling people they don't matter because of their sex/skin colour/who they're attracted to, when it's very clearly gone far beyond the original purpose of the sub, regardless of whether or not they begin brigading other subreddits in order to further spread their "ideologies."
I'm not saying that every sclub in whatever cesspool of a subreddit they are in should be banned. You can be pro-life, a flat earther, left, right, centrist, whatever. I don't care and I don't think most people do, but when you begin to actively spread hate and promote violence against whoever they see fit, this is when I think a moderation team should step in.
You'll never be able to change the hearts and minds of the stubborn and stupid, that was never the point. It's not like I can go up to David… more Duke and say "Don't be racist, it's not cool" and he'll just listen to me. What you can do, however, is convince others to not listen to them, and that's the ultimate goal. Trying to quash them actually gives them what they want, you put more attention on them and bring their "ideas" from the underground and into the minds of others. Most will know its bigoted, but a small group will latch onto it, causing their numbers to grow. Challenge them and expose them as the frauds they are, they won't change, but you stop others from jumping on board with them, that's the point I'm making. You want these ideas you disagree with to not become mainstream or pick up any traction, stop trying to cut off its head. These people are like a hydra, if you try, two more will take their place. And if they want to keep to t… [view original content]
I agree with that. I think lupin probably said it best. There arnt enough consequences for what is actually going on over there and a ton of it is stuff that isnt considered free speech anyway.
I understand your alarm about free speech rights and I fully understand it. I guess its hard to put it into words as many people may find some speech to be free speech, while others may find it falling under things that would be considered not free speech. Which kinda makes a problem of it being a subjective topic.
However with fuck epic, its gotten to the point like lupin was saying, its turning into nothing but pure hate and calls for harm and stealing, which we've seem to deem as not free speech. Its hard to see it as a "subjectively" thats their opinion, when their opinion is things like "Anyone think gays should be shot in the street cuz I think so" or "I am going to shoot up Epic's headquarters." Almost nothing is being done to stop this and it seems it wont change, so its probably best to just shut it down and then people can just make a new one if they want.
(which they should. EGS is far from perfect but r/fuckepic does a terrible job giving any type of actual feedback or complains about the store (as now almost all complains are just made up or extremely petty as they ignore real issues with the store like the fact some countries cant even use it) as its barely even about that anymore.)
Well to be fair, I think everyone here, myself included and you certainly have as well, have said this is wrong. The grand majority of peopl… moree think and know this is wrong. Therefore, failing to give them attention, credence, or recognition of any sorts prevents their drivel from possibly reaching an entire audience where a small (and I mean small) group can latch onto them, even if the larger audience recognizes it for what it is. I'm not saying ignore the overall ignorant beliefs, but ignore it so that where we're not giving it the attention it's craving, and thus, leading to it going away. Do not feed the beast, deny it sustenance instead. The news of an entire subreddit being shut down will spread a lot quicker than the reasoning as to why. I never knew of the subreddit, and thus, I never knew the problems with it, and that probably goes for a lot of people. All these people will hear is that a subreddit that is critical of the Epic Game S… [view original content]
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Glad it's also coming to PS4.
Two Telltale characters appear in this Top 10 video
So it's official now, the three best sci-fi icons got destroyed by Hollywood in a row:
You know what's even funny about those movies? They all had people who were involved in the very first films and were the best hope for the latest sequels but failed miserably. That case being:
I hate to break it to ya, but predator and terminator have been dead long before their most recent adaptation. as someone who loved prometheus though, yeah it's really fuckin sad that covenant is bad : (
Never thought I'd see the day where a brave Gamer would use a phrase like "anti-racist" as a con about a PC game store.
Yeah! Burn those Vegans, LGBT defenders, and even those Peace and Love Hippies!!
... All they want to do in life is give those poor devs an 88% cut on the Epic Games Store and we can't let them!
this is me doing sarcasm obviously
(also, where the hell is this from?)
reads in Donald Trump impression
I don't do politics don't argue with me
Ah yes, the poor racists. When will society finally acknowledge their existence as a non-hateful community?
Judging by the font I'm assuming this is from Reddit? r/FuckEpic?
It's the Bad Steam and "peace and love hippies" that does it, isn't it?
You know it, but sadly its only for the biggest of brains and true gamers.
how the fuck did gamers go from "censoring boobs is not cool" to "if you support minorities and the lgbt community i hate you and will fucking kill you"
It's been all that rising up they've been doing! We need to shove them back down!
The lack of any proper moderation by YouTube and Reddit is partly to blame. Regardless of how toxic a channel or community is they don't pay much attention to them until it begins affecting the ad revenue, and even then they hardly do anything and being banned is such an easy thing to bypass. Plus, it's so easy to stumble upon a channel or subreddit that's sole purpose is to spread ignorance and hate that it's not surprising that a newcomer to either of these websites would be able to come in contact with this type of "content." It certainly doesn't help that if you watch one video on YouTube, your recommendations will just be filled with similar trash.
Lol. I mean, I dislike Epic as much as the next guy, but that subreddit is a joke.
Subreddits dedicated entirely to hating on one thing in particular are usually pretty ass in general.
Ah come on, when you're a mouthbreather your screen gets all fogged up and you have no clue what shit you're typing. Give the guy a break.
Netflix/Vox's "Explained" has a pretty cool episode on Cults, and the internet could be considered full of mini-cults like that. (19:32 is where that segment begins)
Not surprising they exist, but I'm surprised they could be defined like that.
Ah yes, Meridia.
What sorta character/class were you going with as your theme, btw?
I still not sure how I should feel about it, if anything.
I will give it credit that it looks like it's gonna be quite visual and climactic. But then that's sorta the thing, isn't it?
You have to be careful with such approaches as well, because the more you try and censor, silence, and shut down, not only do they become more vocal, but others rush to their cause to defend them. You make them the victim when you actively target them like that, and people side with victims. I'm by no means justifying anything that douchebag said, but to "shove them back down" and to give more moderation and control to entities that can abuse those types of powers and quash any type of speech they deem hateful is equally dangerous and harmful. And to have some overpowered entity try and tell me and others what is the acceptable viewpoint denies me my personal autonomy and right to free speech. I find the answer to such problems is not more censorship, but the free and open exchange of ideas. Instead of shutting down, let them say shit like this, and anyone with any sense of rational thinking can see them for the morons and bigots they are. Because once you ask them to provide their reasoning, let them explain themselves, and ask for the evidence or facts, they have nothing to fall back on. You want these people to go away, you want others to avoid siding with them, then challenge them, don't censor them.
Well, what can it fix? Or better yet, why does it have to fix anything?
Shows picture of racist.
The freaking set ups that were technically ignored in the sequels, they are now just there for no reason. You can easily tell Disney had no idea what to do with the new trilogy. Rian Johnson didn't give two shits about JJ's draft version of TLJ.
Well, yeah.
Which is what I was getting at with the trailer--I have no clue what I should be expecting or thinking about if I go to this movie and that's no good.
I was just reading this news article explaining the whole #TeamTrees thing going on, and in the middle of the article, out pops an ad for a sawmill company, complete with a picture of a tree getting sawed in half.
Gee, thanks internet. How ironic you seem to be today.
I get what you mean by censoring them not being the best course of action as it may only make them feel more victimised regardless of whatever hypocrisy they're spouting. The problem with this, especially with Reddit is that reasoning does absolutely nothing. Subreddits have a tendency to become self praising echo chambers, regardless of what facts and logic you throw their way. There is no "free and open exchange of ideas". If you even try to go against the grain in a toxic subreddit you're more than likely gonna get the ban hammer. Of course I don't believe that every "toxic" subreddit should be banned, but the ones that end up promoting ideologies/actions that could or can harm the well being of other people absolutely should.
I'm playing as an Imperial for the extra money perk
And I'm doing a stealth archer run because I like being a sneaky ninja, even if it's a bit OP at times.
Yeah I can agree that places like Reddit and YouTube do form mini-cults. I could easily name a few subreddits that would fall under this category. It can get pretty bad if you're an active user of either sites.
Oh. Yeah, the sniping is temptingly broken, from what I recall.
But I mostly meant in regards to what sort of quests, interests, or code your character is intended to have.
tempted to go on Fiverr and make this a reality
You'll never be able to change the hearts and minds of the stubborn and stupid, that was never the point. It's not like I can go up to David Duke and say "Don't be racist, it's not cool" and he'll just listen to me. What you can do, however, is convince others to not listen to them, and that's the ultimate goal. Trying to quash them actually gives them what they want, you put more attention on them and bring their "ideas" from the underground and into the minds of others. Most will know its bigoted, but a small group will latch onto it, causing their numbers to grow. Challenge them and expose them as the frauds they are, they won't change, but you stop others from jumping on board with them, that's the point I'm making. You want these ideas you disagree with to not become mainstream or pick up any traction, stop trying to cut off its head. These people are like a hydra, if you try, two more will take their place. And if they want to keep to their low corners of the internet and live in their fact-less safe spaces and echo chambers, then fine, we can't stop them, at least then they're not bothering anyone unless someone comes along and is actively looking for them OR one of them is outright going after someone else. If you know a particular subreddit is toxic, but they aren't doing anything to personally harm or threaten you, then don't even bother, ignore them. That means their ideas aren't getting into the hearts and minds of others. I didn't know of any subreddit or a post like this until it was mentioned a page ago, I was living in blissful ignorance.
Unless the speech is an outright call or threat of violence against another person or group, then it is protected under one's right to free speech. And as much as you and I hate what they might be saying and couldn't agree less with them, the fact remains that they are entitled to it and we cannot revoke that, and social media platforms like Reddit are tools for one to exercise their rights. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Evelyn Beatrice Hall - The Friends of Voltaire. Because as soon as we allow one's rights to be limited or reduced, we open the way for more revocations of rights and liberties, and that to me is far more dangerous than what some basement dwelling neckbeard is spouting on his keyboard.
Who are you, or I for that matter, to decide ideologies are harmful to others. Some might fall under an objective scope of "harmful" or bigoted, but with everyone, there is a gray area. Someone might be completely pro-choice and find all pro-life viewpoints as worthy of censorship, even if its the more moderate viewpoint. Should that person's right to be pro-life, especially if its because of one's religious beliefs, be deemed harmful because it hurts someone else? Who and what determines what ideologies are harmful? I've been told my support of a capitalist, free market society is harmful. I've seen viewpoints on the left and the right be deemed harmful by someone, imagine if that person had the power to say what is and what isn't acceptable? I find that very troubling.
I would personally say r/fuckepic should be shut down as its just a cult at this point. When they arnt saying shit like anti-racist, they are turning threads into "anyone agree we should kill the gays" and then the threads get completely removed to try and hide it. Its happening more and more frequently. Then when they are talking about Epic its extremely misinformed and a ton of obvious fake anecdotal stories that didnt happen and clearly just misinformation in attempts to fear monger things that arnt accurate. The sub is basically a cult that only causes problems. Basically I feel theres no real harm in "silencing free speech" when the speech is just "I am a hateful person who wants to cause hate and tell very obviously wrong info to try and get you to join me."
So if the threads are getting removed, for whatever reason that may be, then it seems like someone is actually doing their job. Obviously something like that is not protected under free speech, and the removal of it was the right decision. My point, however, still stands, who is the arbitrator of what is deemed acceptable and not, who is the judge of free speech? When that is put in the hands of someone, you open the way for an abuse of power, and power like that in the hands of the wrong people leads to bad outcomes. As Telltale fans, we know this all too well as they gave Kevin Bruner the power of CEO, and look what happened to the company. A toxic work culture, horrible mismanagement, decreasing sales, so on and so forth. Power is corrupting, regardless of what that power is, and I'm hesitant to relinquish something under the guise of someone saying "Don't worry, I'll protect you from the bad man."
I know nothing about the r/fuckepic subreddit, but what should happen is that if there are people simply using this subreddit to spew random bullshit that has nothing to do with the Epic Game Store, than they should be removed from the subreddit. Whatever views they have are their own, they are not being punished for having those views, they're being punished and removed for purposely deviating from the point of the subreddit. An outright deletion of the subreddit should be a last resort after every other attempt has been tried and failed. If there is another alternative, I'd much rather see that. Frankly, my solution is still the same: ignore it, and it goes away. Don't give them the time of day, don't worry about what 30-40 (if their numbers are even that high) people are saying. While what they're saying is repugnant, that's all it is, just words.
What @lupinb0y said earlier is true, subreddits dedicated to hating something are "ass." You know what kind of shit you're getting when you see a subreddit called "fuckepic," a bunch of bitch-ass teenagers or man babies complaining about something because they have nothing better to do, thinking they're so cool for saying dumb shit like "Should we kill the gays?" Leave them to their tiny corners, they'll all fade away into nothing eventually.
Theres a ton of problems with it. A big problem is the mods dont actually disagree with what is being said, its only removed with no warning or repercussion to these people because they know it can get the sub deleted, not that they actually think what that person said was wrong. (I mean fuck sake that "anti-racist" thing somehow wasnt downvoted to Hell and was actually supported in its entirety instead of that small excerpt.) The Steam Fuck Epic group was deleted for Death Threats and brought back for one last chance and the mods there didnt actually scold people doing this stuff, just going "hey dont do it because we dont want the group gone." Just a very small slap on the hand for calls of violence, which does violate free speech. There was also a post before on fuckepic saying gays should be shot on the street that was going on for a long ass time before it was hidden. And yes somehow they all connect this to Epic so its still "on topic." Its also filled with people explaining how to pirate games, also illegal.
Its not really to say there should be someone who decides what should be passed or not as free speech. But in my opinion, speech that consist of scaring people into believing lies with greatly false info, explaining how to steal products, targeted harassment, and constantly calling for attacks on people, shouldnt be allowed.
(next time a big AAA game is announced as an Epic exclusive I recommend checking them out. Seeing the state of it now, the next AAA announcement is going to send it into a frenzy and it will most likely be as bad as ever. Highly recommend seeing the fucked shit they say over there when they get even more boiling than usual)
Again though, why should I even give them any significant time of day? I've heard negative and bad things about it, therefore, I don't want anything to do with it. Giving them attention, in anyway, is what they want. When a toddler throws a tantrum, you don't succumb to their wishes.
As for the stuff like harassment or encouraging criminal activity, none of that as it is is considered free speech, you are right in that regard. No where did I advocate that it is or that it should be. I'm not saying that you think I was, I just want to make that clear because I think the main point of my argument is getting a bit blurred.
Free speech is an inherrent and inalienable right of all people. Threatening or calling for violence, or advocating criminal activity, is not free speech as it directly threatens the rights of other individuals. My fear, though, is that in pursuit of security, we become willing to give up certain freedoms. I never said that, if this type of behavior is as rampant as you said, it should never be dealt with, but I see it more as a last resort after legitimate efforts have been tried but the remaining problems continue to persist. If they do, then it should be shut down. The reason free speech came up as a whole was because I'm concerned over the immediate jump to censor and shut down something we may not like, not because I don't think people are violating certain rules or themselves abusing that right to begin with.
Spreading false or misleading information is a separate issue entirely. The question there is if Reddit considers itself a platform or a publisher. If Reddit is a publisher, than not only can the person who posted something on the website be held for libel/slander, but so could Reddit itself. If Reddit sees itself as more of a platform, then one could still theoretically pursue legal actions against users who post stuff on Reddit, but Reddit doesn't really have a stake in the matter. This, it becomes a little more tricky and isn't as straightforward as it seems.
Yeah this is getting a bit blurred. I think the best way to put it is people like us just ignoring it isnt the best option imo. Just because we know these people are full of it and use a bunch of lies, it doesnt mean we should just ignore it because "who cares, Im not paying attention to them." At some point it needs to be said that what they are doing is wrong. Theres plenty of people unlike you and me who will fall for it, and will join it. And the more people join it because its being left uncheck, the larger the hate mobs get and larger the targeted harassment gets.
I fully understand where you're coming from as I do believe free speech is an important thing. I guess my argument is that the sub should be shut down because for the most part, a lot of it isnt free speech like youre saying. The "I think Epic bad" is very much used as an excuse for its "my free speech to say I dont like this thing" but it becomes more and more clear its an excuse to pirate games (and somehow stretch it into hate speech, I guess it just brings people over from the same boat.)
The sub just attracts the wrong crowd. So instead of it being about "game company bad" its "game company bad and I will also now apply some hate speech too." For the most part the sub makes up hoaxes which isnt illegal in this type of circumstance, but its purposely misleading. It should really just be closed because there are attempts they make to try and "clean it up" but it doesnt stop. (mostly because like I said before, the mods there fully agree with it, they just dont want the sub shut down because it breaks Reddit's rules so often) At this point the sub has lost all its focus as like I said, its now just starting to be used to get people into the "Epic is bad!" and then digging deeper you'll see its actually just a dog whistle for hateful people who want to cause harm.
Well to be fair, I think everyone here, myself included and you certainly have as well, have said this is wrong. The grand majority of people think and know this is wrong. Therefore, failing to give them attention, credence, or recognition of any sorts prevents their drivel from possibly reaching an entire audience where a small (and I mean small) group can latch onto them, even if the larger audience recognizes it for what it is. I'm not saying ignore the overall ignorant beliefs, but ignore it so that where we're not giving it the attention it's craving, and thus, leading to it going away. Do not feed the beast, deny it sustenance instead. The news of an entire subreddit being shut down will spread a lot quicker than the reasoning as to why. I never knew of the subreddit, and thus, I never knew the problems with it, and that probably goes for a lot of people. All these people will hear is that a subreddit that is critical of the Epic Game Store got shut down, and they'll think "Well that doesn't sound right, why would they shut down a subreddit for those who have that opinion? This is censorship." And you might take away the subreddit, but they'll find another place to conjugate. Deleting it doesn't necessarily erase the problem, it just brings more attention to it.
Look at what just happened with Blizzard and Hong Kong. A competitor in one of their tournaments said during the stream he supported the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong. While that certainly gains attention, what got more and more people involved in the story was the overreaction of Blizzard. They banned him, they revoked his prize money, they cow-towed to China, workers walked out of the Blizzard office, all for this guy expressing his views. It made the whole situation worse because Blizzard tried to silence him. It didn't matter that Blizzard was technically following their own tournament rules in their actions and that the player knew the potential consequences, how it came off was that this guy expressed a certain viewpoint, and Blizzard punished him for it. It made headlines around the world and was in the news for days and weeks, while the original story of a guy supporting Hong Kong would have been a day, max. I've read and seen of similar things as well, across various political spectrums, and it's for those reasons that I probably turned a simple mocking of a toxic subreddit into a free speech dilemma (which I do apologize for, sorry, I know that wasn't the intent of your post).
If the sub has lost it's main focus and has devolved into stuff that is off topic, and I will take your word for it, then yes, it should be removed and shut down. However, be prepared for the possible ramifications with those actions, that's basically my point. Every action has a reaction, and you may delete subreddit, but it doesn't delete the problem. You might just be putting a band-aid over a still bleeding wound.
I always play a nice guy (except when I can't like in the Thieves Guild or the Brotherhood of Assassins), but I pretty much do anything and everything. I don't really have a set goal in mind for my character.
I also did download a couple mods to help me avoid killing Paarthurnax (cause he's a cool guy) and do the Boethiah quest without sacrificing a follower.
Oh, okay. I honestly didn't recall what a pain the boss of that dungeon can be.
The thing is, free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. They can say whatever they want in whatever way they see fit, but they shouldn't be surprised if they get punished for it.
When they are telling people vaccines don't work, that an incident involving the deaths of multiple people didn't actually happen, when they are telling people they don't matter because of their sex/skin colour/who they're attracted to, when it's very clearly gone far beyond the original purpose of the sub, regardless of whether or not they begin brigading other subreddits in order to further spread their "ideologies."
I'm not saying that every sclub in whatever cesspool of a subreddit they are in should be banned. You can be pro-life, a flat earther, left, right, centrist, whatever. I don't care and I don't think most people do, but when you begin to actively spread hate and promote violence against whoever they see fit, this is when I think a moderation team should step in.
I agree with that. I think lupin probably said it best. There arnt enough consequences for what is actually going on over there and a ton of it is stuff that isnt considered free speech anyway.
I understand your alarm about free speech rights and I fully understand it. I guess its hard to put it into words as many people may find some speech to be free speech, while others may find it falling under things that would be considered not free speech. Which kinda makes a problem of it being a subjective topic.
However with fuck epic, its gotten to the point like lupin was saying, its turning into nothing but pure hate and calls for harm and stealing, which we've seem to deem as not free speech. Its hard to see it as a "subjectively" thats their opinion, when their opinion is things like "Anyone think gays should be shot in the street cuz I think so" or "I am going to shoot up Epic's headquarters." Almost nothing is being done to stop this and it seems it wont change, so its probably best to just shut it down and then people can just make a new one if they want.
(which they should. EGS is far from perfect but r/fuckepic does a terrible job giving any type of actual feedback or complains about the store (as now almost all complains are just made up or extremely petty as they ignore real issues with the store like the fact some countries cant even use it) as its barely even about that anymore.)