Actually, if clever enough, this could be rebuttled fairly easily. Hell, one could even use said rebuttal to point the finger at Morgryn; a… morefter proving that he had motive to want her dead, Mira could claim that he sent the guard to kill her. Making his plans to do so, the guard set up a nightly meeting just for this reason and...couldn't go through with it. Instead, the guard warned Mira, telling her that she had angered someone with great resources - someone whom he'd rather not name for fear of meeting an end he had planned for her and suggested that she be careful. Afterward, Mira departed, returning to her room. After this, we can then turn the attention to Morgryn as the culprit, audibly pondering if he was conniving and determined to see Mira dead enough to spy on the meeting, kill the guard with his own knife, use his resources to get rid of the body, toss the weapon into the bushes, and then later start up a rumor that it was Mir… [view original content]
Kind of hard to do bribe anyone at the last minute in a room full of crowded people. Morgryn might like to play the "I'm so clever" card a lot but he's actually quite stupid and egotistical, which is a very poor set of personality traits to have. He depends on his charisma, money, and reputation to win over all. He doesn't always think things all the way through (as is evident in his generic-evil-plan-revealing moment), and likely would've doubted that Mira would've been able to turn the tides against him.
Even here, he assumed that his word was all that was needed to confirm her guilt...in this case, he was right, but had there been an actual trial it could've likely gone either way depending on whether you burned or kept the ironwood decree (without it, you wouldn't have any physical evidence of the possibility that Morgryn had reason to frame you - meaning that the court likely only would've had to take it from the word of a suspected kingslayer, and that isn't going to go well without something to back it up). After all, he was the one who suggested that Mira destroy it. It would've caught him completely off guard if she were to suddenly present it to the court as evidence of the reason Morgryn would've wished to frame her for murder. He'd become prepped for the stand right there with little to no time to conjure up false witnesses.
Thing is Morgyrn wouldn't be afraid at all to bribe false witnesses.
And outside of people who are nice and kind; who stands to gain/benefit for testifying for Mira and ISN'T biased?
Thing is Morgyrn wouldn't be afraid at all to bribe false witnesses.
And outside of people who are nice and kind; who stands to gain/benefit for testifying for Mira and ISN'T biased?
It is if you are from one of the major houses. Morgryn however is not. He's an Ironwood merchant. I'm still at a loss of how exactly he is ordering around the Lannisters guards like they are his personal playthings and why they aren't asking questions of why they are searching for Mira and Morgryn role in events. Heck, I'm not even sure the heads of the major houses have that kind of pull in the case of a murdered Lannister.
I mean the original thought process makes sense I'll pay a Lannister guard to kill her. But afterwards? It isn't even plot holes just a whole lot of nonsense. I mean if I was him I'd be deathly afraid of my involvement being exposed. I'd take a step back. Maybe, I'd hire another assassin but the last thing I'd do is involve myself by naming Mira the perp. I mean the Lannister are not morons they know at some level the rumor false. Then after exposing himself in such a way he betroves her and puts the blame on the coal boy? Ugh. Forget Cersei the real power in king landing is Morgyn lol.
They did have evidence. Lucan saw her in the courtyard with Damien on the last day he was seen alive. Sadly, it's not enough evidence, but in King's Landing it is.
Cersei is queen. Morgyrn is a merchant. Heck, he ends up marrying her (in my playthrough) in order to get his foot into the door of a minor noble house. How exactly is he able to order around the Lannisters like his playthings and why isn't anyone asking questions of HIS involvement.
I mean lets just walkthrough what he is able to accomplish as a mere merchant in kings landing when it comes to Mira:
Ordering around the Guards Captain (a lannister) like he is the king
Getting Margs to back off (eventhough she is one of the more powerful characters there) and allowing her handmaiden to be arrested with little evidence.
Pointing the finger at Mira without his own involvement being questioned.
Then Marrying her after she already had been arrested and pointing the finger at the coal boy instead. Still noone expects his involvement. Even more unbelievable is Mira appears to be staying with him.
I refuse to believe the stupidity telltale is spoonfeeding. Even if I was to believe the nonsense leading up to the coalboys execution afterwards what exactly is my reason for staying with him?
Someone else has already been executed for the crime. He has nothing on me. The only reason to stay is your word but I think most would understand Mira not keeping her word in the set of circumstances.
I refuse to believe the stupidity telltale is spoonfeeding. Even if I was to believe the nonsense leading up to the coalboys execution after… morewards what exactly is my reason for staying with him?
Someone else has already been executed for the crime. He has nothing on me. The only reason to stay is your word but I think most would understand Mira not keeping her word in the set of circumstances.
I refuse to believe the stupidity telltale is spoonfeeding. Even if I was to believe the nonsense leading up to the coalboys execution after… morewards what exactly is my reason for staying with him?
Someone else has already been executed for the crime. He has nothing on me. The only reason to stay is your word but I think most would understand Mira not keeping her word in the set of circumstances.
People saying we should have trial by combat are wrong because Mira isn't highborn, she doesn't have that right. The only thing I'm a little bit pissed about is that women in King's Landing when convicted of a crime are allowed to choose between joining the "Silent Sisters" (they prepare dead bodies for funerals in King's landing) or execution. Since women are not allowed to join the Night's Watch, we should have been offered this choice rather then becoming a slave to morgryn like sansa to ramsay.
Kind of hard to do bribe anyone at the last minute in a room full of crowded people. Morgryn might like to play the "I'm so clever" card a … morelot but he's actually quite stupid and egotistical, which is a very poor set of personality traits to have. He depends on his charisma, money, and reputation to win over all. He doesn't always think things all the way through (as is evident in his generic-evil-plan-revealing moment), and likely would've doubted that Mira would've been able to turn the tides against him.
Even here, he assumed that his word was all that was needed to confirm her guilt...in this case, he was right, but had there been an actual trial it could've likely gone either way depending on whether you burned or kept the ironwood decree (without it, you wouldn't have any physical evidence of the possibility that Morgryn had reason to frame you - meaning that the court likely only would've had to take it from the word of a suspecte… [view original content]
''Only highborn noblemen have the right to request a trial by combat: smallfolk do not possess this right. Noblewomen apparently also have the right to request a trial by combat but are not expected to fight themselves.
If a highborn is accused of a crime, at any point during the trial held by the local lord he can demand his right to a trial by combat. This right is held to be so inviolable that even a lord that is fully convinced that the accused should die would be hesitant to simply deny such a request (if it is made in public, at least). Even members of the royal family or high officials such as the Hand of the King would feel incapable of denying the request if it was made publicly.
In a trial by combat the accused may represent themselves in combat or, if unable (such as if they are female, injured, crippled, a dwarf, or otherwise incapacitated), may ask for a champion to represent them. The presiding lord may, at least, demand that they pick a champion from currently available warriors, i.e. instead of allowing them to name a champion currently located on the far side of Westeros, attempting to try to delay the trial by weeks.''
People saying we should have trial by combat are wrong because Mira isn't highborn, she doesn't have that right. The only thing I'm a littl… moree bit pissed about is that women in King's Landing when convicted of a crime are allowed to choose between joining the "Silent Sisters" (they prepare dead bodies for funerals in King's landing) or execution. Since women are not allowed to join the Night's Watch, we should have been offered this choice rather then becoming a slave to morgryn like sansa to ramsay.
I couldn't bring myself to sacrifice Tom and marrying Morgryn didn't fit the way I had built up Mira. Her send-off with very reminiscent of Ned Stark's, which was pretty cool. I liked letting her die in the name of honor. I wonder if we'll see Tom go into revenge mode next season (it might be an interesting little plot thread).
Comments
Morgryn saying we did it was the trial unfortunately lol.
Thing is Morgyrn wouldn't be afraid at all to bribe false witnesses.
And outside of people who are nice and kind; who stands to gain/benefit for testifying for Mira and ISN'T biased?
As a slave
Kind of hard to do bribe anyone at the last minute in a room full of crowded people. Morgryn might like to play the "I'm so clever" card a lot but he's actually quite stupid and egotistical, which is a very poor set of personality traits to have. He depends on his charisma, money, and reputation to win over all. He doesn't always think things all the way through (as is evident in his generic-evil-plan-revealing moment), and likely would've doubted that Mira would've been able to turn the tides against him.
Even here, he assumed that his word was all that was needed to confirm her guilt...in this case, he was right, but had there been an actual trial it could've likely gone either way depending on whether you burned or kept the ironwood decree (without it, you wouldn't have any physical evidence of the possibility that Morgryn had reason to frame you - meaning that the court likely only would've had to take it from the word of a suspected kingslayer, and that isn't going to go well without something to back it up). After all, he was the one who suggested that Mira destroy it. It would've caught him completely off guard if she were to suddenly present it to the court as evidence of the reason Morgryn would've wished to frame her for murder. He'd become prepped for the stand right there with little to no time to conjure up false witnesses.
as a baby maker machine.
Sera could have been my alibi,
"Mira? A murderer? Oh me and Mira were actually doing each others hair that night, how could it have been her?''
Why didn't Tom's boss help! They kept us alive for that long!
It is if you are from one of the major houses. Morgryn however is not. He's an Ironwood merchant. I'm still at a loss of how exactly he is ordering around the Lannisters guards like they are his personal playthings and why they aren't asking questions of why they are searching for Mira and Morgryn role in events. Heck, I'm not even sure the heads of the major houses have that kind of pull in the case of a murdered Lannister.
I mean the original thought process makes sense I'll pay a Lannister guard to kill her. But afterwards? It isn't even plot holes just a whole lot of nonsense. I mean if I was him I'd be deathly afraid of my involvement being exposed. I'd take a step back. Maybe, I'd hire another assassin but the last thing I'd do is involve myself by naming Mira the perp. I mean the Lannister are not morons they know at some level the rumor false. Then after exposing himself in such a way he betroves her and puts the blame on the coal boy? Ugh. Forget Cersei the real power in king landing is Morgyn lol.
Cersei is queen. Morgyrn is a merchant. Heck, he ends up marrying her (in my playthrough) in order to get his foot into the door of a minor noble house. How exactly is he able to order around the Lannisters like his playthings and why isn't anyone asking questions of HIS involvement.
I mean lets just walkthrough what he is able to accomplish as a mere merchant in kings landing when it comes to Mira:
I refuse to believe the stupidity telltale is spoonfeeding. Even if I was to believe the nonsense leading up to the coalboys execution afterwards what exactly is my reason for staying with him?
Someone else has already been executed for the crime. He has nothing on me. The only reason to stay is your word but I think most would understand Mira not keeping her word in the set of circumstances.
I don't think that cunt Morgyn blamed Tom without making sure that Mira will marry him first
Those were my thoughts as well now that crime has been solved he has nothing on me.
People saying we should have trial by combat are wrong because Mira isn't highborn, she doesn't have that right. The only thing I'm a little bit pissed about is that women in King's Landing when convicted of a crime are allowed to choose between joining the "Silent Sisters" (they prepare dead bodies for funerals in King's landing) or execution. Since women are not allowed to join the Night's Watch, we should have been offered this choice rather then becoming a slave to morgryn like sansa to ramsay.
You bring up great points
Andrew Grant are you reading this!!!!
Sacrificing Tom was easy choice for me. Morgryn isn't that bad by GoT standards. He is greedy bastard, but much better than Joffrey or Ramsay.
HO HO! WAIT A MINUTE, MY UNEDUCATED FRIEND!
LO AND BEHOLD THE FACTUAL LORE OF GoT!
''Only highborn noblemen have the right to request a trial by combat: smallfolk do not possess this right. Noblewomen apparently also have the right to request a trial by combat but are not expected to fight themselves.
If a highborn is accused of a crime, at any point during the trial held by the local lord he can demand his right to a trial by combat. This right is held to be so inviolable that even a lord that is fully convinced that the accused should die would be hesitant to simply deny such a request (if it is made in public, at least). Even members of the royal family or high officials such as the Hand of the King would feel incapable of denying the request if it was made publicly.
In a trial by combat the accused may represent themselves in combat or, if unable (such as if they are female, injured, crippled, a dwarf, or otherwise incapacitated), may ask for a champion to represent them. The presiding lord may, at least, demand that they pick a champion from currently available warriors, i.e. instead of allowing them to name a champion currently located on the far side of Westeros, attempting to try to delay the trial by weeks.''
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Trial_by_combat
As well, the Forresters are a noble House, like the Whitehills, albeit minor compared to the larger Houses we are familiar with.
I don't think Morgyn thinks much if anything through.
I couldn't bring myself to sacrifice Tom and marrying Morgryn didn't fit the way I had built up Mira. Her send-off with very reminiscent of Ned Stark's, which was pretty cool. I liked letting her die in the name of honor. I wonder if we'll see Tom go into revenge mode next season (it might be an interesting little plot thread).