Mike and Bonnie does not make any sense
I know this has probably been mentioned before but I thought it deserved it's own thread. I serioulsy can't get over the betrayal, Bonnie and Mike are willing to steal all the supplies and abandon Clementine and a little baby just to get away from Kenny. I seriously don't get the characters or the writing in season 2...
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That made sense to me, Kenny was so hostile they wanted to get away. Bonnie has betrayed every group shes been in and we know nothing about Mike
Yeah but it was clear Mike cared about Clem when he ran over when Arvo shot her but he still didn't let her know about the plan. Also the fact that they trusted Arvo more than Kenny is absurd, sure maybe they felt sorry for the kid but let's not forget Arvo was at least partially responsible for the attack on Mike and Bonnie's group, feeling sorry for him does not justify them picking him over Kenny, Clem and AJ.
I never understood how half the group immediately climbed up Arvo's backside straight after the gunfight, if they stopped and thought about it, they'd realise this was the same guy who led an armed group to carry out an unprovoked attack on them...
But hey, we gotta get away from the 'crazy' guy who's never actually done anything bad to the group...
Maybe not Clem and AJ. They should have tried harder to convince Clem to go with them instead of running away.
I always thought Bonnie was that kind of person who needed to feel safe. I think she felt safe with Dee and Leeland, up until whatever happened to Leeland. Then in season 2 she felt more safe around Luke (since she implied they had been romantically involved once and she can trust him) but then Luke dies, Kenny beats the shit out of Arvo and then I think it get's to that point where she doesn't feel safe and wants to be far away from Kenny and determinedly (for a bullshit reason) Clem as possible.
But I don't know about why Mike wanted to betray them though.
But that's just my take on things ;P And yeah, leaving Clem and a baby behind was an extremely shitty thing to do, so even if their reasons were valid there was no need for it.
I personally do think it makes sense if I'm honest (aside from stealing all the supplies, it'd make more sense if they only stole 1 bag). You see the relationship between Kenny and Mike quickly deteriorate while you see Mike and Arvo become sort of friends. Bonnie would definitely come since she doesn't approve of Kenny's behavior and likes Mike. Since Kenny was planning on leaving Arvo to die in the morning they had to go that night. Obviously they wouldn't bring Kenny along, the narrative makes it look like Clem and Kenny are friends so taking her along would be a risk since she might tell Kenny, AJ was a baby and the supplies didn't have any baby formula so he might be safer with Kenny (plus he might just chase them down for taking AJ), Jane was the wild card who knows how she'd react if they asked her to go with them.
So I'd personally say it made sense for them to leave that night without taking more people (though taking all the supplies still seems a little weird).
Mike and Bonnie ditching the group makes sense because Kenny was being so hostile. But taking all the supplies doesn't really make sense, at least to me.
They should've made them take one bag of supplies, no matter what. That way, they'd seem a bit more reasonable. Instead of it looking like they're leaving the rest of them to die by taking everything, they'd still leave enough behind to give the rest of them a chance
It wouldn't fix everything, sure, but it'd be a step in the right direction and make their actions a bit more forgivable, at least from my perspective
It actually makes sense. Once you realize they tried convincing Clementine. I mean, who would stay in a group where Kenny calls the shot and disregards your opinion? Not me
I want this explained. Maybe they feature in the Michonne series?
Except disregard what they themselves wanted.
Them wanting to escape Kenny makes sense, but stealing all of the supplies and abandoning Clementine, Jane, and the baby doesn't.
He's never done anything intentionally bad to hurt any of the group, but he was escalating, and he did make some poor decisions. It was only a matter of time before he exploded. I think they should have not just sneaked off though. They should have just confronted Kenny and told him they were leaving and taking the kids. What could he really do about it? If he got aggressive, it was three adults against one.
Bonnie doesn't strike me as much of a fighter so it would really just be Kenny v. Mike and Jane. We've seen that Kenny could overpower Jane in a one-on-one but even if Jane and Mike teamed up Kenny could do some serious damage to the two of them and maybe even kill them if he's lucky. The main factor that decides whether you win or lose in a fight is how willing you are to hurt the other person, Jane and Mike while both against Kenny won't have that killer drive that Kenny would have and would probably lose the fight as a result.
I think youre overestimating Kenny's power. You make him sound like The Hulk lol. The wouldnt need to kill him, just subdue him long enough to get everyone in the car. They could do that with just their guns drawn.
By that point Kenny would've lost everything he wouldn't care if he killed everyone else in the group. Plus, if I'm remembering this right, he's the one with the rifle and wouldn't think twice about killing Mike, Jane and Bonnie (and Arvo as well).
Mike and Bonnie's actions in Episode 5 made little sense and had no foreshadowing from previous episodes to justify their decision to steal from everyone and take the truck. While I can understand why they would sympathies with Arvo, their decision to rob everyone while they sleep and drive off just because of Kenny was completely out of the blue, especially when they were shown to be the more level-headed of the group in Episode 4 full of dysfunctional team members.
Not only it was out-of-character, it was completely unnecessary and had ended up showing how biased the writers were with Kenny's role in Episode 5. There wasn't a single character who were allow to rationally disagree with Kenny and point the flaws in his plan, without being needlessly demonized in order to present Kenny as in the right.
The betrayal scene is one of the lowest points of the series.
Yeah I think we talked about this earlier. Kenny got his ass kicked by Lee, Larry, and even Molly!! He ain't shit in a fair fight let alone a 3v1.
I totally agree with you JustAnotherFan98
So youre advocating that they should have snuck off like thieves in the night?
No, this scene doesn't really make a whole lot of sense either way.
Haha hope im no where were you are when the apocalypse happens.
Okay then, so they went against him, but joined the guy who had just attacked them? Kenny never hurt anyone within the group and at the most had a shout at them, in the apocalypse I'm sure that's manageable
Yeah, but that was S1 Kenny. S2 Kenny won a fight against Jane and pinned Mike to a wall and held him there, his fighting skills have improved significantly
Mike hadn't been with a woman in a long long time, and Bonnie took advantage. Poor Mike.
Because he is physically stronger than Jane and it's not like Mike wouldn't win since all Kenny did was pin him. That's not how to determine skills just by "pinning". Maybe strength but not skills.
I am aware, I'm simply saying that Kenny has the strength on par if not over Mike, and strength is a skill, if you get what I mean. And Mike doesn't seem like no kung fu expert neither
Most of the things in the last episode didn't make very much sense. They just tried to salvage what was left of the plot by then imho
I agree. I also don't think Clem would have left without Kenny though
There's a small price to pay straight from your wallet of dignity for freedom, my friend.
Not physically, no. But verbally? Many times.
10/10 for the philosophy, it slowed my reply right down. But was it really freedom? They're traveling with a guy who they don't know, and Kenny never kept them captive, they could've left at any time. As they did in the worse possible way
And yes, Kenny had a shout at people. 1) He's just lost his symbol of hope and happiness (Sarita) and this never really changed until Alvin and Clem (later in Ep5), you cannot blame Kenny for losing his temper after losing his last hope. And verbally being hurt (regardless of why), it's the apocalypse, surely you can handle a few harsh words, haven't they handled MUCH worse, if they can't handle Kenny shouting at them, then they will die soon. End of, really.
I dont think they left him because their feelings were hurt. More that he was getting increasingly violent and irrational and they didnt want to be around when he finally took an axe to the whole group.
It did make sense for me. It was a mixture of a few things. Hatred/fear of Kenny and no longer trusting his judgement, differences of opinion on where to go next, being in a desperate situation. I have a feeling that Mike made his mind up when Kenny said he didn't intend to bring Arvo with them. Clementine was on good terms with Kenny in my game so I can also see why they didn't include her on the plan. Plus how well did Clementine really know Mike and Bonnie? Not that well imo and wasn't really close to any of them in the same way she was with the likes of Kenny and Jane (depending on the player).
We are always trying to clean up the mistakes on the writing of the game by doing our own explanations. I think there is a huge lack of sense on some things on both telltale games: TWD and GoT
But he was only violent towards Arvo. Who he (in my opinion) quite rightly saw as the enemy.
I disagree that he was getting more violent (only up until Alvin) he actually calmed down a lot when Alvin was born, and reacted aggressively when Alvin was threatened (or his position as Alvin's carer). This was because, for the 3rd time, Kenny wanted to make sure his beacon of hope wasn't taken away. Kenny would only turn violent if Alvin (and Clem in extreme cases) was threatened, when Jane 'killed Alvin' that was Kenny at breaking point, but only because Alvin (his hope) had been taken away yet again. Notice he never hurt Clem in the fight, he wouldn't have took axe to the group
Seeing Arvo as an enemy was no excuse. The kid was tied up and completely helpless most of the time. The fact that Kenny couldnt restrain his fists or his mouth (with the commie this and commie that) said a lot, and that wasnt even his most violent act. Remember Carver, and then Jane at the end. All enemies in his eyes, and all with the most hands on violent encounters.
And speaking of AJ as his beacon of hope, I have always had a real problem with this newborn who lost both his parents, being used as a tool to make Kenny feel better about himself. This baby is not a replacement Duck anymore than Clementine was. Kenny has no claim to him.
And speaking of her, he has hurt her, granted it was usually by accident with him losing control of himself. Its that lack of control that always alarmed me, and would make me worried for everyone he was with.
The kid was lippy and acted suspicious ('fuck you', running on the icy lake, ignoring Kenny's questions), Kenny punched Arvo at the house, due to Luke's death and Clem's near miss, not to mention Arvo brought it on himself. I didn't feel there was anything wrong with the way he killed Carver, Carver was a bad man, killed Walter, Alvin, Reggie, and beat Kenny to near death, and destroying his eye. I don't blame him, he didn't ask or force people to watch. As for Jane as mentioned, yes it was overkill, but she had appeared to have killed Alvin (plus she never seemed to care about him beforehand), and Kenny had yet again lost his hope and he snapped. But his reasons were understandable.
And I see your point, but Kenny is the only real chance of survival the baby has, Clem and Jane know nothing about children. Maybe Kenny shouldn't just 'claim' him, then again, did it stop Lee from looking after Clementine?
I guess you mean the 'elbowed in the frozen face' bit? In short that wasn't his fault and Clem recklessly threw herself into the fight there. OR you could mean emotionally? I guess, but he did lose control after Sarita, I don't expect Clementine to just ignore what he said, but he didn't say it viciously TO Clementime, just AT her
I didnt blame Arvo for getting "Lippy." It was the only way he had to fight back, since the others werent doing a terribly good job of protecting him from Kenny. And Carver's beating was the single most disturbing thing Ive seen a character that we are supposed to root for do in one of these games. He deliberately planned to slowly beat a man's face in. How does that not sound like a maniac? If it was anyone else, someone people didnt know or like, I think it would. I understand Kenny getting upset, just not the way he handles it. We can agree to disagree on that because Im pretty staunch in my opinion that Kenny is way too violent and has no cause for most of it, except as a way to vent his rage.
About AJ, I dont believe Kenny was his only hope. A lot of people dont know how to handle babies until they learn. Jane had a younger sister, she has some familiarity with kids, and Clem probably learned some from Christa from when she was expecting. She showed herself to be capable enough when she was looking after him. Thats why I think Jane's idea to go back to Howe's where they knew they had formula, and other baby supplies, was the best decision when it came to AJ. They could do just as well for him without that somewhat uncomfortable air of obsession Kenny gave off. As for Lee taking Clementine, at least she had a say. She could choose not to go with him. AJ had no say.
I meant Kenny punching Clem in the face when she was trying to stop him from beating Arvo. She was almost freezing to death and he was more concerned about beating up Arvo. I know that was an accident, which is what I meant about him losing control of himself and lashing out. Yes, maybe she shouldnt try to jump in the middle of a fight but noone else was doing anything. They shouldnt have to try to physically pull him off people.
That rant he made after Sarita died just made me hurt and furious because it was so unfair, kind of like the way I felt when he gave me the "You never did nothing for me" speech at the end of season one. Does he listen to anything that comes out of his mouth? I think he was saying his true thoughts with no filter, and it wasnt until later that he realized he's not the only one with feelings. I appreciated that moment when he acknowledged he was wrong to say all that but it barely took the sting out if it.
Again, we can agree to disagree before this discussion becomes a mile long lol.
Did any of the group besides Kenny, Clem and obviously Rebecca actually care about the baby though? I mean really? Did they show it? Mike/Bonnie/Arvo certainly didn't and deep down I don't think Jane did either
I think AJ and probably Clem were the only 2 keeping the guy going. He couldn't handle it when Jane did what she did