The one thing 'Tales from the Borderlands' made me feel about Handsome Jack
Was sincere sympathy. The speech Jack does in the ruins of his office, after Helios crash lands on Pandora, made me actually care about him even more than I already did after Pre-Sequel. I couldn't help but think of how this guy has gone through hell and back, how his "best" friends stabbed him in the back, and you know, he loved his daughter so much. And I didn't want to do anything bad towards him. I'm sorry, Jack, for everything. And you can bet your sweet behind that I kept the eye.
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I couldn't.
I mean, yeah, I definitely felt wretchedly bad for him. He ripped a fine tune on my heart strings. And you have to realize that, if he hadn't been stabbed in the back by so many people, he might have actually become the hero Pandora was looking for. Jack was from a broken home, with no parents and an abusive grandmother. His first wife was killed, accidentally, by Angel. All the above are some of the recipe for a blossoming sociopath. The betrayal exhibited by the Mariff, Moxxi, Roland, and Lilith were the actions that pushed him into the deep end.
But some things to remember:
I thought it was interesting that Tales had Rhys and Jack run almost completely parallel to one another. Hell, some choices allowed the Hyperion lackey to completely shadow his predecessor. Tales introduced the notion that forgiving transgressions - taking the hits and brushing them off with no alterations to your convictions - rather than acting with vengeance upon them can be the difference between becoming a ruthless mass-murderer and becoming a true, blooming leader.
I loved Jack. I loved his characterization and the multiple layers to his personality. As much as I wished for a way to sway him, every time you trusted him he would dig and do something psychotic. Ultimately he felt like too much like a rabid dog needing to be put down. I didn't want to risk the chance of him coming back for rage-fueled redemption and crushed the hell out of that eye.
jack was practacally on his kees begging for rhys nkt to kill him as there is nothing after death so i feel a bit sympathetic for him but what happens whether you keep or crush the eye we shall have to wait and see ( bring on series 2)
Here are some for feels for you
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Don't remind me....
I guess all stories had to end by killing the good guy.
The one thing I both love and hate about Handsome Jack is that he showed that you don't have to be a good person to get a devoted following.
You just have to be charismatic.
People forgot that Jack wasn't actually a hero at all in the pre-sequel.
Before the events of tps he had already enslaved his daughter and used her to manipulate the vault hunters into opening the vault for him. Which is why he has so much power in Hyperion for a code monkey.
He then tried to manipulate the vault hunters for a second time. To get them to retake Helios and get back the eye he tricked them into getting for him the first time.
And since he and Moxxie are no longer together we can assume he already destroyed her stadium in a fit of jealous rage. So yeah that was a thing he did.
So why are people always trying to blame Roland, Lilith, and Moxxie for turning Jack?
Just because Jack is good at one-liners doesn't excuse him of enslaving his daughter to get promoted.
Angel had an abusive childhood and wanted to save Pandora. Angel was connected to a sattalite to observe Pandora all the time. She saw how ugly and dangerous it was all the time. But she would rather die than let Jack destroy it. Wanted to be free of "a lifetime of servitude."
But yeah no Jack redemption arc totally.
I'm not sure if the Underdome was destroyed before the presequel, Moxxi wouldn't help Jack otherwise, even if it was a trick.
Tbh I've never felt sympathy towards Jack, don't get me wrong he is a great character. But I would never accuse the shitty things he did or place the blame on other characters, I guess that kind of reminds me why I don't empthize with him.
Also I guess because of the fans which do that, has made me stop liking him, which is a pain in the ass everytime that happens.
Jack wasn't begging Rhys not to kill him, he was begging not to be imprisoned in the limbo of an inactive storage device again. For a normal AI this wouldn't be a problem, but for Jack's AI, being based off a human mind, well... it's hell. A void without anything to see or interact with, without even a body. The human mind does not deal well with sensory deprivation, and it doesn't get much more deprived than that. The man says it himself: "It's not like they say... there's nothing... there's absolutely nothing there..."
Really, crushing the eye is the most merciful option.
Though... TBH, on my first playthrough I misinterpreted what Jack was saying there too. So, out of pity, I had Rhys keep the eye. ... Aaand now, in retrospect, I realize that I consigned Jack to the worst kind of solitary confinement imaginable. Heh heh... whoops!
(Fun fact: The UN classifies long-term to indefinite solitary confinement as "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment." Again: whoops.)
I felt plenty of sympathy toward Jack...
...but if something is broken beyond repair (aka Jack) then it's best to get rid of it once and for all.
So I crushed the eye.
My last word to him was "Sorry."
It is not that I consider him a good person at all, when I said that. It is just an odd relationship and feeling I have toward the guy. I have been fighting this guy and his minions in Borderlands 2, I have been fighting for him in the Pre-Sequel and he has been part of our adventure in Tales from the Borderlands. He has been with me from the very beginning. Despite the fact that he is a villain, he has been by our side for so long that it really felt like I am killing my friend. So yeah, I am definitely going to miss him.
My journey as Rhys was pretty similar to my own journey. At the start I felt sorry that Jack had died and offered to help him, tried to be nice and respected him.
In Old Haven I was about 1 second away from clicking Trust Jack. Then I hesitated, realised never ever trust handsome Jack and chose to trust Fiona. Jack was too dangerous. But I patched things up with him afterwards and we kept working together. I didn't lie to Sasha and Fiona about him - they had a right to know. In Jack's office I rejected Hyperion because I was sure he was going to kill me. Then he tried to anyway.
I was determined to take him out. Then I gloated in his office (after it crashed) - Rhys had surpassed his former idol, who he'd finally realised was nothing more than a crazy mass murderer. Then when I started tearing out my cybernetics, Dameon Clarke still managed to tear my heart out. "Please! Please don't send me back there! IT'S NOT LIKE THEY SAID!"
The pure desperation and terror made me feel sorry for him - he was a broken, bitter shell of who he'd once been. He'd always been a power-hungry, arrogant narcissist - but he was my power-hungry, arrogant narcissist. If he'd been willing to turn his back on ruling the universe I truly believe he could have done a lot of good... but he never would have done that. I knew it was going to end like this.
But even after listening to him rant about scooping out eyes with spoons, throwing people out of airlocks, committing genocide (and attempted genocide) then try to kill me repeatedly... it was still hard to let go. I told him I was sorry - but I had no other choice.
When I held the eye in my hand, I figured Jack was already gone - Rhys kept the eye, as a reminder of what not to become. Jack was not a good person - but he was likeable and in all my years of video games, I cannot immediately think of a greater video game character than him. He had to die... but I still wish there was some other way...
Well, damn...that was good
Yeah it is pretty ambiguous when it happened. I always remember him destroying it because he thought Moxxi was cheating on him because that's what the subtitles say when you accept the mission and I usually have the audio off so I can listen to music, but she says he destroyed it after she dumped him out loud. It's a matter of conflicting dialogue I guess.
So it's either he already destroyed the Underdome and she's putting that aside because she owes him or he hasn't yet and does it in retaliation for destroying the Eye of Helios.
I love Handsome Jack more than the next person, but...
Yeah, he's a textbook sociopath. He probably thinks he loves Angel, but for his type it is in the 'favorite toy' sense not the 'human being' sense.
God that just made me think of this one old-school horror serial killer movie where the guy's mother is screaming, "I'll cut it off! Is that what you want?!" and I can't remember the goramn title! Was that Psycho?
But I can see Handsome Jack going all Norman Bates and wearing his mom's dress.
If you had a daughter that could help you find all the answers of the universe, would you let it go since she doesn´t have interest in that? Specially if that talent your daughter had cost the life of your wife.
Handsome Jack is not a great villain because he´s evil and is great to hate him, that was the initial motive in Borderlands 2, but at this point the one thing that makes him great is the fact that he´s human, probably more than any other character in the lore and even other videogame IPs.
Just like in Greek mythology we are used in the media to the never surrendering hero, that one that will stand up for all weaker than him, the one that will fall over and over to ever rise again in a better shape, the one that will never surrender as long as he thinks something needs to we fought... Life is not like that. When you broke up with your partner in real life you can just win her/him over with funny schemes or being pushier or just letting her/him notice how evil and bad is the next person they choose. When somebody puts a knife in your neck your lucky to not shit your pants (I have being mugged with knife two times in my life, is not a movie scenario). And when you get hurt you learn from that pain, even if what you learn is to not trust people so openly, to be a little cynical, to embrace the fact the world is not made for you, you where made in it, it´s just part of reaching a mature state of mind, we all have that moments.
Jack had being betrayed, sold, attack and hurt by so many people around him that the only solution is to stop even caring about people in the first place. Not excusing his behavior, and yes, he´s a psychopath at this point (although is important to notice that almost everyone in this lore is kind of crazy anyway), but his descend into madness and "evilness" is one that can be understand and is realistic.
I think that´s where TellTale has really shine and how they made such a great story arc for him in this game, because they where capable of understanding the depths of the character and his many layers, and how every "villain" is just another human being that derail somehow and wasn´t able to pull him/herself together after a traumatic event.
EDIT: I just tough that the best way to explain this is that grenade scene in Captain America, yeah is great and it establish how much of a hero he can be, but in real life nobody would do that, most people will flee from their lives while others stare in shock and panic. Handsome Jack will throw somebody else over the grenade, that won´t make him a hero and he will do it to preserve himself, but in the process he will save some of those people unable to even run and, unlike them, at least he was capable of react. In this case, is the Vaults he reacts to, and by the end of The Pre-Sequel, it´s clear that he was right, the Vaults were something to great and important to be dealt by mercenaries looking to profit of it´s richest, and that´s something different to the way he approached that reaction towards the people that didn´t saw things like him.
Maybe that's what his tattoos are about. Did we ever get details on why grandma is vault obsessed?
I get annoyed with Jack sympathizers. They way to quick to trust and ignore stuff that has already been established about him. The writing of Jack as a perfect manipulator is done so well, these people genuinely feel sorry for someone who is pretty much the Borderlands equivalent of Hitler. I love Jack as a villain and I do get saddened when I learned about his implied abused childhood. The thing is, he was a monster before the events of any Borderlands game. TPS is not at all the story of Jack turning into a monster, it's the story of why he started showing his true colors. Dameon Clarke, rocked everything about Handsome Jack, from the first lines we hear of him in BL2, to his last seconds in Tales. And I love him like the Joker, except you have to x10, at least, the number of people Jack's killed (I feel people can't/don't try to wrap their heads around how many people were affected by Jack)
In his final moments in Tales, he was like a wounded beast. He whimpering, he seems completely weak and vulnerable. It fits in with Rhys' naivety that you drop your guard (that's how I played it). But if I step back and view it as a player, it screams trap. People have to realize that Jack is feral. And he was waiting for an opportunity. Everything he said in that situation was him buying time and charm Rhys into relaxing.
Then I'm reading comments (along w/ OP) that say this desperate act made them pity Jack. Handsome Jack, the man who massacres villages for fun, and finds it funny to torture people in front of their loved ones. Again I will say, I have yet to meet a Jack sympathizer that is not being ignorant to Jack's atrocities (whether intentionally or not). Killing Jack did make me feel sad and a tinge of regret, but then I realized it wasn't Jack I was upset about, it was that Jack's story is done, and I'll miss him as a character and villain.
Jack begging, I wonder how many innocent people did that to him for their lives and he laughed before first killing their family before shooting them in the head.
Okay, yeah Jack's a bad guy. EVERYTHING he did was abd, and what set him off was his daughter accidentally killing his wife. He strangles people if they ever mention it dangit. And I feel everyone knows what Jack did was wrong; people love him in a way it's really 'love-to-hate' on some circumstances. But gosh dangit, Jack is probably my favorite villain in anything, ever. Not only cause of how funny he is, cause of how well written and portrayed he was with his story and all. He's a villain I've seen most people have sympathy for. And I do think Jack wouldn't have been genocidal at the very least if everything in the Pre-Sequel didn't happen. This is why I hate Lilith, cause in Borderlands; really no one is the hero. But Jack WAS the closest to being one first. He wanted to rid of bandits, (Which he now considers everyone) and he saved the moon from Dahl attempting to destory it. I think the plot of Borderlands 2 would have gone better if he wasn't set off by Lilith and Moxxi. There's a Game Theory over this, but I bet you've seen it. And I just realized I digressed alot. Huh. But anyways Jack is probably the best villain cause you consider his story, and what happened to them in past events and sympathize on those events.
Even if Tragic Backstory were an excuse for his behavior, you're assuming Jack was telling the truth. Which has never been the case when the truth makes it hard for him to paint himself the hero. (He and Grant Ward should hang out.)
I personally after the AMA had this mental image of Jack being entirely responsible and then turning to Angel and saying do you see what you did?
AMA?
I agree though, I can see him pushing the blame onto somebody else.
Personally, I only put a chunk of the blame on Lilith. She's the only character who deserved what Jack did to her: Jack was never a good person, I agree, and he was well on his way to becoming a bad guy, if he wasn't one already, however, Lilith is the one who sped things along by disfiguring Jack and breaking his mind; something no one seems to understand is her fault and no one has called her out on.
He wasn't actually a good guy. He tried to kill Rhys and he had to remove him from his head
Pretty sure using an ancient eridian artifact to see visions of the warrior made Jack crazier. And maybe I just have a skewed perception of things but I don't think punching a crazy man that she knows is capable of murdering innocent people justifies getting enslaved to charge a vault key while being stabbed repeatedly.
The link in my post was a reddit Ask Me Anything by Handsome Jack
You're having the wrong perspective! Rhys is the bad guy because he didn't want to cooperate with Jack. That's why he had to take those measures.
Just play Borderlands 2 several times.
As much as I love him as a character, I still hate him, and I'm very happy that he's gone.
Still though, just like everyone's buddy Darth Vader, his shadow will hang over the universe for a very long time.
Who the hell would accept Jack's offer to use endoskeletons to have human beings in control?
Handsome Jack may be a terrible person, but we can all agree he is still one of the best characters in the Borderlands franchise!
I find him as the BEST villain of all time. HOnestly, you can't just make people love a villain so much like people do with him. Or you love to hate him. Either way, you gotta love him some way kiddos.
Well here's something I just thought. Jack had Angel sealed away in Borderlands 1, before he snapped in the Pre-Sequel and had any ideas for her to unleash the Warrior. Her killing her own mother is the only thing that comes to mind to a REAL reason Jack would do that. Especially since he seemed to actually care about here. Yeah, he lies when it sounds like he's telling the truth. But dangit, when you kill Angel he sounds sincere about his pleads. His ending in Tales didn't seem as much so. Now with thinking about Angel and Jack out of the picture, who will be the antagonist in BL3 be? War is coming...
Joker vs. Handsome Jack, go!
I will definitely agree that Jack is a master manipulator and sociopath. (Though I'd say 10 000 times Joker's kill list rather than 10).
I think he was definitely a power-hungry and scheming bastard before TPS - but he wasn't quite a monster - he was a monster the second he jettisoned those scientists out of the airlock (or maybe a bit before that idk).
I definitely don't regret that he's gone - he was definitely a monster and a murderer... but that doesn't mean that (in the heat of the moment) I didn't feel a stab of guilt or pity at banishing someone literally begging for his life to the darkness... forever.
He was monstrous and I know that... but emotion is rarely rational.
Love to hate!
Like I said, everyone's buddy Darth Vader.
So, given what we know about his relationship with Angel, Jack:
Locked her in a bunker with the lock on the outside and keyed to only his voice
Put her to work luring people to their deaths for his enrichment/amusement
Still needed (and used) something like a control collar to keep her compliant
Pumped her full of eridium to the point her only choices were comply or die
He's a controlling psycho, and pumping her full of eridium was the opposite of helping her get control. I'm sure he was genuinely sorry for himself that Angel was gone: she'd gone outside of his control and he had to find a new siren to use. (Notice in Tales he views Angel's suicide as betraying him...what a selfish bastard)
I have no problem with 'he's terrible...but I still love him' Dameon Clarke did a great job.
It's the 'what else could he have done?' posts that make me want to back away slowly.
Yeah. Also, I hope you're aware I find EVERYTHING Jack does corrupt and horrible. But he's just so freakin' lovable. And some of these deeds he's done be speculated in theory; about whether it was him being insane, or responsible. We really need more to this in BL3 even if he won't be there. Borderlands just doesn't feel right without having him somewhere in there.
Also, the just pondered on me, the actress for Angel refers directly to Jack as the best father ever. It was in a 107 facts about Borderlands video.