I'm more curious about the idea that Clementine, if she still is the player character, ends up in Arvo's shoes and is tortured in a similar … moremanner and accused of a crime she might not even be 100% involved with.
And the game gives the player the option to shoot a random person of the group that had tormented her once she's about to escape and is at the end of her limit, just to see whether the player will do the exact same thing as Arvo does.
For me, the options are basically simple. Do whatever it takes to survive! If as Clem im caught and tortured like Arvo, okay I'll deal with it given the options available but in my mind, everything I choose will be about survival. Endure til the opportunity arises to escape even if that means killing anyone who get's in the way!
I'm more curious about the idea that Clementine, if she still is the player character, ends up in Arvo's shoes and is tortured in a similar … moremanner and accused of a crime she might not even be 100% involved with.
And the game gives the player the option to shoot a random person of the group that had tormented her once she's about to escape and is at the end of her limit, just to see whether the player will do the exact same thing as Arvo does.
Works both ways too though doesn't it? For Kenny's critics, why is it so black and white for him and not everyone else? People wanna sit Arvo down, talk to him, understand why he did it. Kenny gets more shit for having a fight with Lee at his worst state of mind than Arvo did for shooting a kid, at his worst state of mind. Now in fiction not everyone is equal in every thing and we're free to like who and what we like for whatever. I'm not gonna start going round calling anyone hypocrites or any of that shit, but just saying...
Now personally I understand why Arvo did what he did. Even before he tried to kill Clementine, it was highly unlikely that the two were going to be buddies or anything and I didn't get the feeling that either would ever want that. Too much bad blood there. Hell if I was playing from Arvo's point of view, i'd want Jane, Kenny and Clementine all wiped out. Jane especially put all the events into motion that got the kids family killed.
I said why, to try to understand why he did it. If Kenny has reasons for doing the awful things he does, and he's forgiven, why is it so black and white for this kid?
Taking Arvo along was an accident waiting to happen. The group had the sense to at least tie him up. Had he been given a gat then first thing he would have probably done is put holes in Jane and Clementine (with damn good reason too if were putting it into context of his point of view).
But then, throw in the actual context of the situation. This is survival in the zombie apocalypse, not the playground. When Anyone (repeat t… morehat word) ANYONE shoot's you, they tried to kill you. If you survive, you shoot them back so they can't try to kill you again. So, as Clementine, upon seeing Arvo, the person who shot her, the reason to shoot him, isnt bullying or revenge, it's Survival.
"Hey everyone! We brought back this crippled, scared, one-dimensional, and physically and emotionally beaten foreigner kid back just he can … morego through hell all over again! Isn't this fun?!
We've done this so we can continue to endorse bullying, torture, threats, ethnic slurs and bigotry, and finally killing someone we don't even know if they're fully guilty of the ambush plan, because there's no such thing as individual guilt, everyone is guilty by association, unless you're the heroes, when you can do no wrong no matter what the situation is!
Especially when they end up shooting a child, which is you, which just proves that they were evil to begin with, and certainly not because of their vengeance, stress, and paranoia fueled by the unnecessary treatment they had to put up with since their capture, being treat as less than a human being, and never being told why their relative was gunned down like a wounded animal!
So just remember … [view original content]
Its not the same, is it? We know everything about Kenny from being with him for almost two full seasons. People grew to love him, or hate him, or whatever. We know almost nothing about Arvo except that he was with a group that tried to overtake ours, he's Russian and he shot Clementine. We got plenty of information with which to judge Kenny or sympathize with him if you wish, but with Arvo he is just the enemy, and Kenny is entitled to treat him however he wants. If Clem was on the receiving end of that treatment, people would be livid. Arvo is not a demon, he's just a kid who was with a dangerous from our standpoint, group of people, and was pushed to the point of violence by Kenny's unneccessary abuse.
Works both ways too though doesn't it? For Kenny's critics, why is it so black and white for him and not everyone else? People wanna sit Ar… morevo down, talk to him, understand why he did it. Kenny gets more shit for having a fight with Lee at his worst state of mind than Arvo did for shooting a kid, at his worst state of mind. Now in fiction not everyone is equal in every thing and we're free to like who and what we like for whatever. I'm not gonna start going round calling anyone hypocrites or any of that shit, but just saying...
Now personally I understand why Arvo did what he did. Even before he tried to kill Clementine, it was highly unlikely that the two were going to be buddies or anything and I didn't get the feeling that either would ever want that. Too much bad blood there. Hell if I was playing from Arvo's point of view, i'd want Jane, Kenny and Clementine all wiped out. Jane especially put all the events into motion that got the kids family killed.
I can see his point of view, he hates Clementine and Kenny so he tries to kill them, run and leave them for dead, splinter the group (Kenny was already doing a good job at this) and steal their supplies. I'm not saying I'm gonna kill the guy but he's got a lot to answer for.
He wasnt doing any if that for Clementine. He was doing it for himself. There is no excuse for beating up a boy half his age who was already helpless. None.
You mean he was living peacefully until Carver attacked his home because of the Cabin crew despite them sharing supplies with Bonnie. Kenny tried to save his people by shooting, and Arvo, while he may have not shot, he brought a hell of a lot of guns with him.
Oh that's right! Thanks for reminding me!
Why was Kenny taken prisoner
He shot at Carver's group. Kenny even killed one of Ca… morerver's men, and his actions led to Walter's death.
why was Arvo taken prisoner?
His group shot at Clem's group. Funny, because Arvo didn't even shoot at anyone himself like Kenny did, hm....
Oh that's right! Thanks for reminding me!
Why was Kenny taken prisoner
He shot at Carver's group. Kenny even killed one of Ca… morerver's men, and his actions led to Walter's death.
why was Arvo taken prisoner?
His group shot at Clem's group. Funny, because Arvo didn't even shoot at anyone himself like Kenny did, hm....
Hug him, apologize for everything Kenny did to him. Allow him to join our group... because everyone needs a nerdy crippled Russian on their… more team. Seriously the accent is just cool. Now we just need him drunk sitting in chair thinking he is in an airplane.
I will cut off both his legs and Arms and cut them into little bit pieces and eat them.. Raw. After that I will Crazily scream " TAINTED MEAT" I ATE TAINTED MEEAATT. After that, I will look at his armless and legless corpse and since I'm satisfied I will say " Only you can fill my lust..... FOR MEAT" My Gawd the references
Maybe not no but it wasn't ok for what him and his Russian pals did to threaten the group and try to rob them! I honestly feel if they hadn't done that then Kenny wouldn't have done that to him and that's what i think
He wasnt doing any if that for Clementine. He was doing it for himself. There is no excuse for beating up a boy half his age who was already helpless. None.
As I said several days ago, it doesn't matter how you treat Arvo. You choose not to steal from him, he still accuses you, because Jane took his gun (not blaming Jane for anything). You stick up for him when Kenny is beating him around, he still mean mugs you. Why? All because you shot his sister who reanimated and is going after Clem and AJ. We're about two years into the apocalypse, everyone should know by now you turn once you die from anything less of a brain injury. Did he not see his sister's face and eyes?
Also, let's not forget: Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing EVERYTHING from Kenny, Jane, AJ, and Clem. When Clem caught them, Arvo shot her to assure their escape. Stealing one bag and leaving them the other would've been understandable, but stealing both is like making sure they wouldn't survive in the cold of nowhere.
That's why I would shoot Arvo in the knee and let the walkers get him. Same with Mike and Bonnie. They were leaving Clem's group with nothing, so who's to say they wouldn't do it again if I forgave them? Can't take those chances.
Oh that's right! Thanks for reminding me!
Why was Kenny taken prisoner
He shot at Carver's group. Kenny even killed one of Ca… morerver's men, and his actions led to Walter's death.
why was Arvo taken prisoner?
His group shot at Clem's group. Funny, because Arvo didn't even shoot at anyone himself like Kenny did, hm....
I'd just punch him in the face, then we can let bygones by bygones
If someone shot me, I think I could forgive them, but they aren't going to walk away with a non-punched face
And I'm going to say it again: if they make the decision to bring back Arvo, actually do something interesting with him. Give him an actual character. Give him a character arc. He can still be an antagonist, just do something interesting. Don't bring him back solely to let players get revenge on him with a "kill him/spare him" choice
Well we know that he participated in a robbery and shot a kid in cold blood. People are going to see him as the enemy. After the shootout I still believed that he was still a threat to the group and shouldn't have gone with them. The fact that we didn't know him that well made the situation even worse rather than better for me. Him, or Clementine for that matter aren't just innocent kids that are victims in my opinion. Once you start robbing people/ willingly hanging out with robbers and capping people then you lose that privellage.
Its not the same, is it? We know everything about Kenny from being with him for almost two full seasons. People grew to love him, or hate hi… morem, or whatever. We know almost nothing about Arvo except that he was with a group that tried to overtake ours, he's Russian and he shot Clementine. We got plenty of information with which to judge Kenny or sympathize with him if you wish, but with Arvo he is just the enemy, and Kenny is entitled to treat him however he wants. If Clem was on the receiving end of that treatment, people would be livid. Arvo is not a demon, he's just a kid who was with a dangerous from our standpoint, group of people, and was pushed to the point of violence by Kenny's unneccessary abuse.
Oh damn. Even though the parallels are similar to me I think AJ is just a different matter of principle but you bring a good point. I still hate Arvo but I'm not going to make Kenny a Saint. He fucked up.
I'll let Clementine handle this. Try to explain what really went down and if he's still an asshole, just leave him be. I think revenge won't help anymore. Time to become the bigger person in an apocalypse!
If you call being with his only family willingly hanging out with robbers. Sometimes you dont have a choice who you end up with, as he and Clementine both know.
Well we know that he participated in a robbery and shot a kid in cold blood. People are going to see him as the enemy. After the shootout I … morestill believed that he was still a threat to the group and shouldn't have gone with them. The fact that we didn't know him that well made the situation even worse rather than better for me. Him, or Clementine for that matter aren't just innocent kids that are victims in my opinion. Once you start robbing people/ willingly hanging out with robbers and capping people then you lose that privellage.
Well, of course, one situation led to another. Just like our group robbing that car led to the Stranger kidnapping Clementine. But its how you deal with a situation that says a lot about you. I would think that a man his age would have more self control.
Maybe not no but it wasn't ok for what him and his Russian pals did to threaten the group and try to rob them! I honestly feel if they hadn't done that then Kenny wouldn't have done that to him and that's what i think
Well, no one is blameless in this. They all messed up to some degree. Which is why I wished it hadnt ended the way it did, with Mike, Bonnie and Arvo just fleeing the scene, maybe never to be seen again.
I can see his point of view, he hates Clementine and Kenny so he tries to kill them, run and leave them for dead, splinter the group (Kenny… more was already doing a good job at this) and steal their supplies. I'm not saying I'm gonna kill the guy but he's got a lot to answer for.
I will cut off both his legs and Arms and cut them into little bit pieces and eat them.. Raw. After that I will Crazily scream " TAINTED MEA… moreT" I ATE TAINTED MEEAATT. After that, I will look at his armless and legless corpse and since I'm satisfied I will say " Only you can fill my lust..... FOR MEAT" My Gawd the references
Of course I wouldn't actually do any of this if stuff, if it were a choice... except for me shooting Arvo in both legs and leaving him to die. Take a Joke m8.
Hell yeah I would. Infact if someone robbed my of my gun and/or the medicine that was supposedly meant for my sick sister in a zombie apocalypse, then threatened to kill me if we ever met again, next time I see you i'm killing you and the runt you rode in with. This is where player loyalty comes into it I reckon. The player is representing Clementine and not Arvo. What people don't seem to get is that it's virtually impossible for Clementine and Arvo to have any kind of civil relationship. That was over the second Jane robbed him. I'm sure he said something like "you will pay for this" after.
I'm more curious about the idea that Clementine, if she still is the player character, ends up in Arvo's shoes and is tortured in a similar … moremanner and accused of a crime she might not even be 100% involved with.
And the game gives the player the option to shoot a random person of the group that had tormented her once she's about to escape and is at the end of her limit, just to see whether the player will do the exact same thing as Arvo does.
You always have a choice. If you're with robbers in a ZA then you gotta face possible consequences. Clementine had options to walk away from Jane and i'm sure Arvo had options to escape from his crew. Both chose to stay.
If you call being with his only family willingly hanging out with robbers. Sometimes you dont have a choice who you end up with, as he and Clementine both know.
Hardly. I would sit and have tea with Adolf Hitler if the opportunity presented itself just to see if everything they say about him is true or not. I grew up with the biggest a-hole for a brother, I can forgive anyone of anything any time of the week. If I was Clem it wouldn't be hard for me to make peace with Him as long as he was willing to make Peace in return.
I'd just punch him in the face, then we can let bygones by bygones
If someone shot me, I think I could forgive them, but they aren't goin… moreg to walk away with a non-punched face
And I'm going to say it again: if they make the decision to bring back Arvo, actually do something interesting with him. Give him an actual character. Give him a character arc. He can still be an antagonist, just do something interesting. Don't bring him back solely to let players get revenge on him with a "kill him/spare him" choice
Which option with Jane do you mean? If you mean the ending one after the fight, that option was stupid, imo. And again, its not so simple. He obviously loved his sister, and according to him, she was sick. He wanted to be there for her. Its not that easy to walk away from your family. Also, he is a child, and physically handicapped. His sister probably protected him and took care of him. Our group werent always angels either, so just dismissing them as robbers is the reason why I wanted to know more about their motivations instead of them just being villians and getting quickly wiped out.
You always have a choice. If you're with robbers in a ZA then you gotta face possible consequences. Clementine had options to walk away from Jane and i'm sure Arvo had options to escape from his crew. Both chose to stay.
I never said he did it for Clem. I'm saying he would if they come across him again.Arvo deserved to be shot by Kenny and be done with it but he had to come along for the sake of the plot. I wouldn't say he didn't deserve it. He knew what he was doing he wasn't ignorant. He does the same no matter how you treat him and I don't really care why he did what he did all I care about is that he shot Clem and left them to die. I tried being nice and same result.
He wasnt doing any if that for Clementine. He was doing it for himself. There is no excuse for beating up a boy half his age who was already helpless. None.
Comments
Im going to say that they would, but they wouldnt make the connection between the two.
No option to befriend him?
For me, the options are basically simple. Do whatever it takes to survive! If as Clem im caught and tortured like Arvo, okay I'll deal with it given the options available but in my mind, everything I choose will be about survival. Endure til the opportunity arises to escape even if that means killing anyone who get's in the way!
Lol I hear that. I'm on Rick's team, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss Shane.
Works both ways too though doesn't it? For Kenny's critics, why is it so black and white for him and not everyone else? People wanna sit Arvo down, talk to him, understand why he did it. Kenny gets more shit for having a fight with Lee at his worst state of mind than Arvo did for shooting a kid, at his worst state of mind. Now in fiction not everyone is equal in every thing and we're free to like who and what we like for whatever. I'm not gonna start going round calling anyone hypocrites or any of that shit, but just saying...
Now personally I understand why Arvo did what he did. Even before he tried to kill Clementine, it was highly unlikely that the two were going to be buddies or anything and I didn't get the feeling that either would ever want that. Too much bad blood there. Hell if I was playing from Arvo's point of view, i'd want Jane, Kenny and Clementine all wiped out. Jane especially put all the events into motion that got the kids family killed.
Woah, at least take him out on a date first.
Taking Arvo along was an accident waiting to happen. The group had the sense to at least tie him up. Had he been given a gat then first thing he would have probably done is put holes in Jane and Clementine (with damn good reason too if were putting it into context of his point of view).
Oh ... I can't tell you the many ways that pleases me... You don't even wanna know what I would do to his corpse..... ugh
Charming.
Russian people do not constitute a race. They are a nationality.
Ignore him. I have nothing to say to a back stabbing Russian Harry Potter who shot Clem.
Its not the same, is it? We know everything about Kenny from being with him for almost two full seasons. People grew to love him, or hate him, or whatever. We know almost nothing about Arvo except that he was with a group that tried to overtake ours, he's Russian and he shot Clementine. We got plenty of information with which to judge Kenny or sympathize with him if you wish, but with Arvo he is just the enemy, and Kenny is entitled to treat him however he wants. If Clem was on the receiving end of that treatment, people would be livid. Arvo is not a demon, he's just a kid who was with a dangerous from our standpoint, group of people, and was pushed to the point of violence by Kenny's unneccessary abuse.
Eww, what?
Thanks for the heads up. Will fix that now.
I can see his point of view, he hates Clementine and Kenny so he tries to kill them, run and leave them for dead, splinter the group (Kenny was already doing a good job at this) and steal their supplies. I'm not saying I'm gonna kill the guy but he's got a lot to answer for.
You mean he was living peacefully until Carver attacked his home because of the Cabin crew despite them sharing supplies with Bonnie. Kenny tried to save his people by shooting, and Arvo, while he may have not shot, he brought a hell of a lot of guns with him.
I wanted to tell him that! Glad you brought all this up as well. But you have to remember Clem's group started it all first. Remember who robbed him?
Apologise? Hug him? Please tell me this is sarcasm lol
I will cut off both his legs and Arms and cut them into little bit pieces and eat them.. Raw. After that I will Crazily scream " TAINTED MEAT" I ATE TAINTED MEEAATT. After that, I will look at his armless and legless corpse and since I'm satisfied I will say " Only you can fill my lust..... FOR MEAT" My Gawd the references
Maybe not no but it wasn't ok for what him and his Russian pals did to threaten the group and try to rob them! I honestly feel if they hadn't done that then Kenny wouldn't have done that to him and that's what i think
Once again more Kenny bashing. People just can't stop talking about Kenny and all this is doing is causing arguments. Sorry but it is
Just wanted to say:
As I said several days ago, it doesn't matter how you treat Arvo. You choose not to steal from him, he still accuses you, because Jane took his gun (not blaming Jane for anything). You stick up for him when Kenny is beating him around, he still mean mugs you. Why? All because you shot his sister who reanimated and is going after Clem and AJ. We're about two years into the apocalypse, everyone should know by now you turn once you die from anything less of a brain injury. Did he not see his sister's face and eyes?
Also, let's not forget: Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing EVERYTHING from Kenny, Jane, AJ, and Clem. When Clem caught them, Arvo shot her to assure their escape. Stealing one bag and leaving them the other would've been understandable, but stealing both is like making sure they wouldn't survive in the cold of nowhere.
That's why I would shoot Arvo in the knee and let the walkers get him. Same with Mike and Bonnie. They were leaving Clem's group with nothing, so who's to say they wouldn't do it again if I forgave them? Can't take those chances.
So because he didn't shoot at the group makes it alright does it? Fuck that, sorry that doesn't cut it for me. He was as bad as his friends
I'd just punch him in the face, then we can let bygones by bygones
If someone shot me, I think I could forgive them, but they aren't going to walk away with a non-punched face
And I'm going to say it again: if they make the decision to bring back Arvo, actually do something interesting with him. Give him an actual character. Give him a character arc. He can still be an antagonist, just do something interesting. Don't bring him back solely to let players get revenge on him with a "kill him/spare him" choice
Well we know that he participated in a robbery and shot a kid in cold blood. People are going to see him as the enemy. After the shootout I still believed that he was still a threat to the group and shouldn't have gone with them. The fact that we didn't know him that well made the situation even worse rather than better for me. Him, or Clementine for that matter aren't just innocent kids that are victims in my opinion. Once you start robbing people/ willingly hanging out with robbers and capping people then you lose that privellage.
words to live by
Oh damn. Even though the parallels are similar to me I think AJ is just a different matter of principle but you bring a good point. I still hate Arvo but I'm not going to make Kenny a Saint. He fucked up.
I'll let Clementine handle this. Try to explain what really went down and if he's still an asshole, just leave him be. I think revenge won't help anymore. Time to become the bigger person in an apocalypse!
If you call being with his only family willingly hanging out with robbers. Sometimes you dont have a choice who you end up with, as he and Clementine both know.
Well, of course, one situation led to another. Just like our group robbing that car led to the Stranger kidnapping Clementine. But its how you deal with a situation that says a lot about you. I would think that a man his age would have more self control.
Well, no one is blameless in this. They all messed up to some degree. Which is why I wished it hadnt ended the way it did, with Mike, Bonnie and Arvo just fleeing the scene, maybe never to be seen again.
I don't want my Clem to be anything like yours.
Of course I wouldn't actually do any of this if stuff, if it were a choice... except for me shooting Arvo in both legs and leaving him to die. Take a Joke m8.
Hell yeah I would. Infact if someone robbed my of my gun and/or the medicine that was supposedly meant for my sick sister in a zombie apocalypse, then threatened to kill me if we ever met again, next time I see you i'm killing you and the runt you rode in with. This is where player loyalty comes into it I reckon. The player is representing Clementine and not Arvo. What people don't seem to get is that it's virtually impossible for Clementine and Arvo to have any kind of civil relationship. That was over the second Jane robbed him. I'm sure he said something like "you will pay for this" after.
You always have a choice. If you're with robbers in a ZA then you gotta face possible consequences. Clementine had options to walk away from Jane and i'm sure Arvo had options to escape from his crew. Both chose to stay.
Hardly. I would sit and have tea with Adolf Hitler if the opportunity presented itself just to see if everything they say about him is true or not. I grew up with the biggest a-hole for a brother, I can forgive anyone of anything any time of the week. If I was Clem it wouldn't be hard for me to make peace with Him as long as he was willing to make Peace in return.
Exile was just a dramatic word I wanted to use, Lion King 2 bro XD
Anyway I just wouldn't trust him around me and the people I care about.
That's fair. After being beaten by Kenny, I guess he can endure a little girl's fist to the face.
Which option with Jane do you mean? If you mean the ending one after the fight, that option was stupid, imo. And again, its not so simple. He obviously loved his sister, and according to him, she was sick. He wanted to be there for her. Its not that easy to walk away from your family. Also, he is a child, and physically handicapped. His sister probably protected him and took care of him. Our group werent always angels either, so just dismissing them as robbers is the reason why I wanted to know more about their motivations instead of them just being villians and getting quickly wiped out.
I never said he did it for Clem. I'm saying he would if they come across him again.Arvo deserved to be shot by Kenny and be done with it but he had to come along for the sake of the plot. I wouldn't say he didn't deserve it. He knew what he was doing he wasn't ignorant. He does the same no matter how you treat him and I don't really care why he did what he did all I care about is that he shot Clem and left them to die. I tried being nice and same result.