Bit of a rant on Carol (tv spoilers!!!)
FFS CAROL YOU GOT 4 PEOPLE KILLED BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS. Got Sam killed for telling him straight up what would happen to him which made him stop after he saw the boy which also caused Jessie's death ( really wanted her to live) and caused Rons death at the time because he was wouldn't of done it then if his mom and bro didn't die ( he was a dick any ways so fuck him AND U SHOT CARL U BASTARD) and it's unclear weather the wolf changes because he saved Denise's live twice and I understand that carol didn't see all that so il let her off on that one.
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Bit harsh to directly blame Carol for all of that. I don't find Carol beliveable as a badass though. Neither do I find her transition from pussy to badass to be well written.
Well to be fair, it was Jessie's fault for keeping Sam as sheltered as he was.
Also I'm guessing in the end the Wolf did change since he sacrifices himself for Denise (Letting himself get devoured to distract the walkers from her).
I don't really blame Carol for the deaths themselves, but I do feel that Carol caused a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts with Sam; told him he'd be eaten alive in graphic detail, stays on his mind the entire time, freaks out in the middle of the herd as he remembers her words, ends up getting eaten alive in graphic detail.
Well it's at least a better reason to die than just wetting himself.
I don't think it's all carol's fault. There's a long list of factors that played in the events. All starting with Aaron dropping the bag at the wolves home.
yeah Carol tends to just think that if it's for the group, it's okay. but if you do anything else for any reason, you have to die. logic.
EDIT: she also can be very, very harsh. I know she means well most of the time, but she needs to calm that down.
In my opinion, Carol is getting really annoying.
I hate how she still seems to distrust everyone in Alexandria, I hate how she said that she should have killed Morgan, and I hate how she killed the Wolf even after it was looking like he was going to change or could have.
I'm going to cheaply paste a comment I made yesterday on another thread, if that's okay by you.
Yes, the poor wolf who just wanted to murder everyone
.
She doesnt so much distrust them, just looks down on them. To be honest given how every settlement they've ever been near has been hostile you cant blame the group
Is that justified, then? Has she forgotten how she was one of the most incapable people on Hershel's farm? Everyone has been put face-first in a zombie apocalypse, be it as soon as it started or one and a half years later. So everyone has been naive at some point, too, except some military personnel, some hunters and the like.
I think it's unfair how she is treating the Alexandrians, that coming from someone who had preferred Carol over Daryl for five season.
I agree with you. It's Carol's fault. Sam was keeping cool until he remembered Carol's speech. And the Wolf could've redeemed himself if Carol wasn't being a reckless bitch. But the Wolf probably would've died from the bite if not Carol. But yeah, it is Carol's fault.
It was Sam's imcopetence that killed him. It was Jessie's imcompetence that killed her. It was Ron's stupidity that killed him. Obviously Carol played a part in Sam freezing, but Sam was only there because he wanted to and because somewhy Jessie trusted him to make the choice of going with Gabriel or not. I mean he's a 10 yo and you're his mother! He would be way more safe in Gabriel's church, she knew that.
If Carol had killed the Wolf before, Denise would be safe with everyone else. The wolf did change but that didn't erased that he killed a lot of inocent people before without any reason. Did he deserve a second chance? In my opinion, no he didn't.
Uh, what? He was having a panic attack, which is totally not his fault. He was surrounded by dead people that eat alive people. He was being haunted by Carol's words. Nobody can blame him
Partially, yeah. I can agree.
After there was that much noise, that close to them, he thought he was going to die either way. The plan had been explained clearly; no noise, or we will attract them and we will die. So he might as well attempt to kill the man who, in his eyes, caused his whole family to collapse.
Again, he felt a lot safer around his mom than around this guy he didn't know. And he was ten, so of course he promised to behave. The mistake wasn't his, but Jessie's. She should've forced him to go with Gabriel either way. Or even Rick could've made that call.
Yeah, well, Jessie was a pretty crappy mother.
I disagree. He panicked while the others didn't. I do realise he is a 10 yo kid and that he is not as psychologically prepared as the others are, but that's why he shouldn't be there in the first place. He was incompetent to perform such task.
Maybe this is invalid but we see that Sam in the comics (without any Carol's words haunting him) also panics. In the Show her words surely helped, but as mentioned before was not psychologically prepared to face the herd for so many time, I believe that he would have panicked anyways.
I don't think so. It was his stupid grudge against Rick (that had nothing to do with Jessie or Sam's deaths) that made him lift that weapon that made Michonne stab him. His death has nothing to do with Carol.
Rick and Carol have the most responsibility in killing that kid in my opinion. If I was the older kid, i'd like to think that I would have killed him after he caused trouble and got my dad killed or killed him straight up after his terrible plan got my brother and mother killed. His cunt henchmen/woman could kill me however they want after that... I just wouldn't care anymore. Found it hilarious how Rick didn't care about the kid dying but then started getting all emotional when the mother died.
I just finished reading the compendiums so I gotta say carol gets a bad rap. first off she told sam he would be tied to a tree, not holding the hand of one of the top three badasses in the series. so leave her out of that. she is the shows whipping boy she killed the deranged kid instead of carl, shes always doing the hard shit. and she is much less of a ho then in the comics.
Carol did not give birth to Sam.
Carol did not raise Sam.
Carol told a scary story to a sheltered child to prevent him from spilling the beans to people she didn’t have a reason to trust. She also listened to him and talked to him when he was confused about killing after his father died. SHE was the one he ran to and hid behind when his father and Rick were fighting in the street.
Jessie was an abuse victim, but she was also Sam’s mother.
Jessie’s the one who told her son to hide in the closet.
Jessie’s the one who couldn’t get her son to come down the stairs.
Jessie’s the one who wouldn’t make her son leave with Gabriel.
Sam was doing ok until he saw that child walker. YES, Carol’s story came flooding back to him, but Carol is not responsible for his death. Carol did the only thing she could think to do, give him tough love to to try to scare away the ignorance of what these monsters are.
She lost her daughter, because her daughter wasn’t prepared.
She lost Mika, because Lizzie was confused.
She lost Lizzie because Lizzie couldn’t be around other people (like the Wolf).
She didn’t want Sam to be unprepared. Unfortunately, Sam was completely ill-prepared for everything.
That is not Carol’s fault. That is his parents’ fault.
Carol was more of an indirect cause of death for those people - Sam chose to stay with everyone when Father Gabriel could've easily taken him to safety, Sam indirectly caused Jessie to die as well in that sense. Jessie didn't let go of Sam, although I can't blame her for that moment :c her son was killed right in front of her, as for Ron, he chose to pull the trigger at Carl, you can blame some of his intentions on Carol but you can't just ignore the fact that Ron already tried to kill Carl and really, it was Michonne who killed him directly because he tried to kill Carl and ended up wounding his eye.
Well, Denise would've been safe if the Wolves Leader didn't try to make her leave with him, sure he saved her twice but he's the one who put her in danger to begin with, you could argue that he helped get Denise to Carl but since we don't know what she would've done in a different scenario we can't really say. I do believe that Morgan was right and that he could've changed and his actions might have aided in saving Carl's life but can you really blame Carol considering she thought the Wolves Leader had captured Denise and knocked Morgan out?
Summary: Sam chose to stay instead of go to the Church(Carol definitely deserves blame for messing with his head though), Jessie chose to keep hold of Sam(It does make sense since she's seeing her beloved son get eaten alive right in front of her), Ron tried to kill Carl, injured him and Michonne was the one who killed him and Denise was put in danger by the Wolves Leader. Carol does deserve blame for many of the things she's done but she isn't the only reason why these 4 died, they all made decisions that resulted in their fate but they're definitely not the only ones to blame.
I blame Jessie. She should have been more adamant about him going with Gabriel. I mean he went from being in a closet to being in a herd of walkers. Sure Carol scarred him but he needed to hear it. His mom sugar coated and sheltered him. He is dead because of it.
I do think that someone needs to talk to Carol though. She gets it done but it seems like she is going over the deep end. Maybe someone she will actually listen to.
Are we forgetting that Carol saved the group at Terminus AND Alexandria? Without her there wouldn't be anyone left.
I agree she played a factor in Sam's death, but I don't blame her for killing the Wolf.
I do love Carol but I think she goes overboard sometimes. Its like she overcompensates to make up for the way she used to be with Ed.
Carol is AWESOME.
Sam was an annoying little bugger, Jessie I could care less for and Ron was messed up when Rick killed his dad and Carl took his girl.
Still I find Carol one of the better characters she isn't a crybaby like Maggie, she isn't depressing like Sasha and there aren't many other female characters I care for except maybe Tara but we don't get a lot of time with her.
Can people remember Carol went from this meek scared abused woman to this BAD*** who saved the WHOLE group at Terminus.
Carol sucks.
Panic attacks aren't selective, it wasn't his fault. Especially for a kid with less idea how to cope with them
Oh my god, where have you been all my life? Another Carol hater... Our lord and savior Fox McCloud has answered my prayers.
Carol was awesome, until this season. Now she really seems to be too dark. How could she even had SAID that she should've killed Morgan!? It seems like she's too far gone at this point, sadly. Because she was a grade-a bad-ass in Season 5.