Why people are so overprotective over Clem? (SPOILERS FROM NEW FRONTIER)
I mean, i get it. "We raised her" as Lee and as players when we got to play as her.
BUT, we raised her both as Lee and herself. When we are playing as Lee, we make choices thinking about her, because we are Lee in the game, and our goal is protect her, keep her safe. And raise her to be the bad ass she was born to be.
In Season 2, we are her. So, is kinda hard to not be protective about yourself in that world.
But, in the New Frontier, we play as Javier. And, I don't think is just me, but when I play a Telltale game, I really try to be the character. Enter his head, see how he would react, you know, BE THE CHARACTER in every way.
That's why me, as a player, love Clem so much. I got the love I felt it from Lee. I raised her.
But I, as Javier, don't love her. I'm Javier when playing as him, and I will make choices being him, not Lee or Clementine.
Why in the earth I, Javier, would side with Clem after she shot a guy in cold blood? Even if she didn't mean it, I won't lie for a girl I just met, who threaten me, robbed me and don't really trust. Especially when the people I'm lying to outnumber me and have a lot of guns.
But when I'm Javier, that is. Me, as a player, wanted to side with Clem in every situation. But my Javi don't.
I can't say I was surprised when I saw that lying for Clem was the major choice for the people... But I was surprised that I was one of the 5,5% that didn't lie for her. I expected at least 20%, 25% perhaps, don't lying for Clem.
That begs the question: Is really wise making choices surronding Clem? You know, saving Gabe or Clem, for example. 90% of the players will save Clem, even though Javi JUST MET HER, and Gabe is his FAMILY.
Even though I enjoyed seeing Clem grown, I think that she just might ruin New Frontier for some people (not from me, because I'm playing as Javier), because a lot of these people are still playing as Lee after all these years.
And, if you must know, I didn't side with Clem, stayed with her (not because of her, even though she said I saved her life, but for killing those bastards and buying time for my family), and I shot the guy who wanted to give Clem away, but not because of that, because he pointed a gun to my boy Gabe. That something Javi wouldn't stand for. My Javi, at least.
What you think about the situation? Perhaps Clem can really ruin New Frontier in some aspects because people love her way too much, and can't play without helping her? Tell me what you people think.
And I'm not a moster. I do love Clem. But Javier don't. For now, at least. She has a way to grown on you.
Comments
I just wanna add that I don't feel like I "lied" for Clementine exactly. The guy had goaded he previously and even attacked with a knife, perhaps it was bending the truth just a tad too much but I don't feel that I made the choice because of some outside obligation to Clementine.'
Clementine showed me (Javier) trust when she cut the restraints, and I felt like I needed to show her that I could be trusted to have her back.
During my playthrough, all of my choices weren't all because of Clementine.
In the final choice in EP 1 where you choose between staying to fight or go with the family. I didn't make Javier stay because he want to protect Clementine. I made him stay because his beloved niece and surrogate daughter just got murdered in front of his eyes. He was in a really dark place and just wanted to kill every one of these bastards who did this to her, regardless of any rational and common sense at the time.
In one of the final choices in EP 2, I didn't kill Conrad because I want to protect Clem, but because he threaten Gabe.
I still love Clementine, but at same time, I am acknowledging her as her own person and doesn't need constant supervision and guidance.
Make sense. But, for me, Javi just met her. I don't know. Didn't really know these guys, and they had guns. So, i just told the truth. But I can see your reasons.
I'm in the same boat. My past experiences with/as Clem don't come into the choices I made as Javi in the first two episodes of NF. I lied for Clem because the trader in the bar tried to gut us both and previously condemned her to death with dud bullets, so f*** him. People that side with her aren't automatically members of the Clementine fan-club is something that needs to be made clear on this forum going forward, I think.
Same thing for me. I stayed cuz Javi needed payback. Still need. Damn... Mariana's death broke my heart. And Javi's as well.
I was also heartbroken and downright vengeful to kill those bastards. I think it was one of those moments where I really connected with Javier and made me immersed playing as him.
Eh, I have to admit to a certain bias. I actually dislike Clementine, as well as Jesus effect on me in the narrative, I have no suspended tension for them. I don't feel like the choices I made was overly much because of Clementine though, but her presence has an effect on my perception of the story.
That's interesting, I understand and respect it. Don't get me started on the Jesus thing, or Ramsay Bolton in the Game of Thrones Telltale Series if you've played that. The choices are hardly choices in both cases. There's total probability any bias I have for liking Clementine may come into play sooner or later I suppose, but not so far.
I'm curious to see David's reaction when he discovers his New Frontier killed his little girl.
Like hell it is. For me at least. A lot of what you're saying makes perfect sense, I'll admit. But I can't not unrealistically choose Clem.
And I don't feel like I'm Javier. I feel like I'm playing Clem's story and just controlling everyone around her and how everyone treats her. So I end up being extremely bias towards her no matter what. I don't regret any of it.
I think lots of people grew to Mariana so much because she's so parallel to Clem. Seeing someone just like Clem get instantly killed like that really gave me a massive reality check. I think that's why I stayed with Clem. To sort of protect/help her.
Exactly! The choices are basically no brainers.
I was right there with you both, ready to kill any and all New Frontier, but I pretty much changed my mind at the last millisecond. Having my family all scream at me to come back to Prescott made me realise I couldn't abandon them to fulfil my blood thirst. Figure there'll be plenty of time for that later.
I don't really get what you are saying,but I have a slight idea.She was a big over confident idiot in that scene.Why was she so sure that all the bullets are faulty?Why aim at his head if you don't want any trouble?What did she want to prove if she pulled a gun on him?That she was authority over him?That the bullets weren't working?Then she's stupid.Since the bullets aren't working,why hold him at gun point?How come you don't expect an agressive reaction from him?
I don't really know what bias mean, not a native english speaker. But, for the context, you both don't like choices surronding these kinda of characters. Ramsay, Jesus, even Clem. And I agree.
But, about side with Clem or not, I can bet that at least 75% side with her because she is Clementine, and not for other reason... That the impression I get anyway.
Honestly they could make us play as Clementine then make us choose between Javy/Gabe/Kate/big blonde guy forgot his name. I mean, most choices would go towards Javy but it still would be a little tougher compared to the current choices.
Shit, if they didn't kill Mariana they could have made us choose between her and someone else: Kate/Gabe. That would be interestin. But we know why that can't happen.
You could google it.
Bias is when you have a particular inclination towards one opinion. As fans of Clem, or just slightly care about her or her story, we have a bias, a set opinion towards her that we keep while playing as Javier, a narrative stranger to her.
She explains that and shows it too. The bullets are faulty and he knows it, when she points the gun at him and fires the first faulty bullet, he doesn't flinch because he is well aware that her ammunition won't harm him. At that point they both decide that her having him a gunpoint is not a threat, which is when he goes for his knife and tries to attack.
I have to disagree.He does flinch.He just wasn't expecting her to actually shoot,if you paid attention.Now,I know that he goes after knife.What I don't understand however,is why actually hold him at gunpoint?Why aim the gun at him?She had to expect some kind of aggresive reaction,especially when threatened by a kid.If you don't get what I mean,this is what I'm saying:She acted superior towards him,but without any backup.Just aim the gun at the floor,to prove your point,avoid unnecessary conflict and not get possibly hurt in the process.
I agree and I thought that Clementine was tactless and incompetent in both situations. Killing that man and almost getting herself thrown out and telling Javier she was part of the other crew. She should have listened to the advice she was given. Kenny's style was always "don't trust people fully if you don't really know them and they aren't going to ride for you". He might not have told her that flat out but that was always his philosophy. Jane always told her not to get too comfortable in big groups like that.
Something about Clementine seems off anyway. I can't really explain it. Maybe it's just that she went from a deep character in deep character driven games to a side character in action driven games.
I don't blame her. He could have cost her, her life. And no, he didn't flinch. He would have protested more if that was the case, he didn't have any problem protesting everything else she said.
I don't think it was all right what she did exactly, but I don't blame her underlying actions. I would puff my chest at him in that situation too.
Well,of course I wouldn't be all rainbows and sunshine if someone almost indirectly killed me.I'm just saying that if her purpose wasn't killing him,she shouldn't have been so confident that every single one of the bullets were faulty.Oh,and if she wanted to actually threaten him,why not use her big ass gun that she always carried around?Like,at least to make sure that she won't get killed if she angered him,you know?
Indirectly almost caused the death of, and directly attacking her. I agree that it is a tad irresponsible to keep the finger on the trigger, but I don't mind her threats. He could be carrying another weapon.
There is a underlying tone in her character that is hard not to notice. I don't recognize parts of her character, but it has been two years after all.
I'm going to hold out hope that they take their time to write more elements into her character now though. Three episodes to go..
You're missing my point.I won't continue.
I don't think I did, but okay.
I didn't lie for her, but I didn't want to completely throw her under the bus. I said it was an accident, which it was. I was just afraid she wouldn't want to help me if I didn't try to protect her in some way. She was mad, but she did help me, so I guess it worked out. BTW, I'm loving this little badass Clem so far.
You did,and I will tell you how.She was so sure that all the bullets were faulty,yet her only form of defense was what?The said pistol with the useless bullets.Don't threaten him in the first place when you have nothing to defend yourself with.
I don't think she acted superior. I think she was simply furious at being swindled and wasn't really thinking straight. She is just a kid, after all.
Yes. I mean, she is not a survival bad ass, but she is smart like Clem. If taught, she could become a bad ass survivor. But, you know... She remind me of Clem in some ways, but she is complete opposite in other ways.
You mean a parallel to the kid Clem, right?
No I got that, it's pretty clear from what you write.
Isn't that the gist of it?
There has been barely any action in A New Frontier so far, and Clementine has been receiving a lot more focus than any other person. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
No matter what Clementine does, her fans will always stick by her. She can lie, kill people, Making stupid choices, indirectly cause deaths of characters and she will still get support. Truth is she's telltales golden child. The little girl who can't do anything wrong and if any characters is mean to her or tries to kill her, the fans want that characters head. I think some overreact too much and take the alliance with her WAY to far. Clementine is like any other character, if she does something bad, people shouldn't let her get away with it. Im sorry if im coming off as a asshole, but that's the truth. Even when Lee was in season 1, the focus was manly on her. Sh'es been telltales chosen one from day 1 and anyone who says anything negative about her gets abused because you can't have a different opinion, you have to love her and think she's the best. She's good, but she doesn't deserve the accolades she gets, more so with how she's acted in ANF.
When I say action I don't just mean just fighting. I'm talking about these constant high intensity, fast moving scenes. This rock and roll style of story telling started directly with the Michonne game. And for such short episodes there has been quite a lot of action imo. She's been receiving a lot more focus than the other side characters yeah, but that isn't saying much.
I mean, can you blame us? Like you said, in season 1 you did everything to protect her and teach her how to survive and in season 2 we get to further shape her into our own Clementine. Can you blame people for wanting to protect her at all times? For being attached to her? Specially since she's the only old character in a group of new ones. I agree that it doesn't make sense for Javier to choose Clem over his family but as a player, it's hard to ignore the fact that you watched that girl grow and know what she's been through and want her to be safe. If you dislike her, or never felt attached to her in the first place, then of course you have no idea how it feels to be overprotective of her, because you don't feel inclined to do so. I don't feel like this ruins the game for me. It is a bit frustrating in a sense, because I know that in all choices that will involve Clem and other characters, I will go for Clem immediately. But so far, choosing to side with Clem doesn't feel too out of character for Javier because him and his family were also in danger in those situations (Conrad had Gabe at gunpoint, the guy Clem killed wanted to kill her (a kid) and almost sliced Javier's eye in the process, choosing to stay and help Clem but also kill the bastards that murdered Mariana and shot Kate while also giving them the chance to get away in safety while he covers for them, etc.). If all future choices involving Clem are like this, I won't have too much of a problem with it to be honest.
Pretty much yeah.I just struck me as a bit strange that she would do that.
Of course. She's a long standing staple in the series, trying to replace her and push her into the background after being MIA for over 2 years isn't suddenly going to make people care less about her and more about the new additions, that's just making it all the more difficult to find and connection to them. Especially when she's written as such a minor characters who's actions seem completely out of place with the one a lot of us looked after and shaped since the first game. They went out of their way to push #MyClementine as the theme in season 2, this is just an overall poor handling. If they're going to actively try to get me to dislike or distrust her character after all of that, it'll get to the point where my actions are out of spite towards the writers who thought this was a good idea.
Beats me, I've never held a handgun but I hear the simple presence of the weapon, even unloaded, is perceived as a threat factor. It was a situation with emotions running rampant so I'm pretty sure it was based more in reactions than rationale.
You could be right.
Tripp.