Season 3: a tale of missed opportunities?
First off, I'd like to say I love the new visuals (technical issues aside, I'm sure they'll be patched). I also love Javi and his family, and the implimentation of Clem and the new characters. They're all great. The story is also really interesting. But if there's one thing I noticed, it's that if only one episode was released, I would have been extremely dumbfounded by the lack of content. Both episodes were extremely short, and even in areas that were 'hub' areas, we have almost no interactivity with the characters.
That is a HUGE mistake. I understand that telltale is pushing for shorter episodes, for 'one sitting', which I think is also a huge mistake, but cutting interactivity out with characters in areas like with the tow truck needing to pull the car wreck free is pretty inexcusable. It was a perfect opportunity to talk to the characters we just met, after the fall of Prescott. Instead we get one line conversations. The success of season 1 was because we got to learn about the characters and bond with them. This was a flaw of season 2, and seems to be an extreme case in season 3. Sort episodes and way less interaction is a bad thing, and it goes against the success Telltale has had with previous titles. I think it's a horrible new direction and I really hope they take fan feedback to try to fix the upcoming episodes, or I have to say this season is really going to be a major letdown.
Comments
Fully agreed. It was even worse in S3E2 because you didn't even have a choice of dialogue in the hubs. At least in E1 you could decide how to respond. The Episode 2 hub doesn't allow you to make a specific comment on Conrad with Tripp, doesn't let you question what Gabe sees in Clementine and doesn't let you have any input in Clementine's reminiscence, all of which could have been added and appreciated.
Hubs are becoming more and more pointless. It was a major element of the first season that there was actually areas to explore and get know people, a huge part of the reason why you gave a damn about the folks you were with was because of the conversations you could have with them, get to know them.
I totally agree and even though i'm enjoying the episodes, it's my main concern.
Exploration and puzzles in Season One were a way of padding out the episode and giving you a time out from everything. Remove that and the episodes feel like they're on rails and just going through scenes at break-neck speed.
They've complete stripped the gameplay from their games and although the dialogue, choices and quick-time events have improved, the pacing is completely lost and we never get a chance to reflect on things that have happened, instead just insterted into another scene where we have to make an important decision but are still contemplating on the last one!
Season One episodes were 2+ hours, now they're barely one with less interactivity, for me that's a backwards step. They either need to give us more episodes or simply longer episodes. I have a feeling Season Three will be easy to complete in 5-6 hours, that's just not acceptable. It's almost half of Season One!
Telltale's team is huge now compared to 2012, they have absolutely no excuses to make episodes longer not shorter!
Regardless, I am still enjoying the story and characters but something needs to be done about the length and gameplay elements of their most recent games.
Another thing that makes me mad that they lazly cut off was Clem auto liking AJ. In s2 it gave you the option to not want to hold him/ not want to be the one to take care of him, but all of that is ignored and forgotten as there is no option and Clem just has AJ as the center of attention. It creates more personality for Clem, not just forcing her to like taking care of a screaming baby, and this is even in the very short time you get to play as her, its still messed up and lazy. This also goes with the fact Clems personality is the same in everyones game, even though you worked in s2 to make her how she is, it was the whole point.
Exactly. You know this, I know this, we all know this. What sucks is that on their own forum, telltale is being told what the problems are and is given solutions to them, but telltale refuses to listen.
You literally have the option to shove your hand on AJ's face to shut him up.
What, the only thing that will satisfy you AJ haters is the option to stab the kid or something?
I completely agree... the episodes, especially Ep. 2 was way too short.
I know, I did do that, her personality in s2 does not carry over. Also I dont hate AJ, I hate how hes forced.
...Are you serious?
That's also what Telltale said themselves I think. "We are bigger and the quality won't drop" or something like that.
Instead the release a new series after another. Guardians, Batman, Minecraft. I can't remember which games they made at this time, but I feel like it was a mess.
I think Game of Thrones last episode took a really long time or something idk. Judge me xD
It's beginning to feel like that...missed opportunities.
Serious about what? Yes, I was serious about everything I said
Hubs were a major element of TTG's earlier games in general.
In some of their earlier games (like Sam and Max, Wallace and Grommit, BTTF), hubs were where the majority of the gameplay took place and cut scenes and QTEs were the exception, not the rule. It was both a good and bad thing (particularly when there were events that seemed to be very time-pressing but you could sit there for ages doing nothing).
S1 of TWD was one of the last games that still felt like it paid respect to the old point and click adventure games because you could interact with characters and even solve a puzzle or two in the various hubs (and I mean a puzzle beyond S2's insulting wind turbine puzzle).
Stuff like unlocking the door in the drugstore office, or deciding which of the group to feed at the motor lodge -- All of this stuff helped to develop the characters and advance the plot (but gave players a chance to take a breath in between some of the more unnerving events of the story).
Now it's just streamlined crap. TTG are cynically making games for the masses that they believe will appeal to the most people and take the least amount of time to develop or play.
These aren't the point-and-click adventure games you're looking for...
i hope the episodes don't get shorter and shorter...i don't care about one sitting episodes. i loved the longer episodes in season 1/bttf they should give us more save points and rewind options too..
I completely agree. One of the best things about these games for me was getting to choose which characters you bond with and which ones you can hate. If the episodes are moving so fast and are so short then it doesn't really feel like you are doing this. This all started with the Michonne game in my opinion. The pacing of episodes was good in season 2 despite it's flaws. Now it just feels more like we are watching a movie. Why the writers thought it was a good idea to take the series in this direction I don't know.
I hate how relationships are so forced in general for the more modern TTG games, well, pretty much all games after TWD Season One - I feel like they greatly downgraded after that - they had nothing to prove anymore and it was the rise of their success.
The Community Manager might be trying to add input but in the end, it's the higher ups that have all the power - the writer/s is likely the one with the most power unless they force them to shorten the script.
No forced relationship in season 2 atleast being clem and all.
Except in Episode 3, which pretty much flies through the bullet points and achievements.
Specifically the limited hub interactions? That sucks.
The Walking Dead: Season One & Two - Telltale Games will not remember this.
The Walking Dead: A New Frontier - Telltale Games will subsequently miss opportunities.
I laughed
Practically all Season Two relationships were forced - with the only exception really being Sarah and to a much lesser extent, Bonnie.
Season 3 could be amazing rather than simply great, if they had included more of these hub moments.
I didn't mind the exploration of the junkyard all that much and I thought it was an improvement from Season 2 and too me I was finally able to chat with members of my remaining family as Javier, too me it felt like I could breathe slightly during that section, after the intro and my conversation with Kate it was exactly the sort of slow pace I wanted before (I knew) shit would hit the fan. Of course I'd like more but from what was going on I thought Telltale did a good job on it.
Prescott was the next hub section and despite the limited interaction with the many people around, I liked that we could speak to Francine and Conrad and I thought we'd be able to keep them around and grow to learn the community better as the episodes progressed and we faced the new frontier, since Season 1 I've longed for a place like The Motor Inn where we can call home for more than an episode. Episode 1 set up the scene nicely and the ending was shocking, I loved the direction of the story, Clem was awesome but also complex, all in all despite it being shorter than I wanted (and those terrible flashbacks) I thought it was pretty good (I went off alone, so I didn't get the fuss about them, until I saw the other playthroughs).
However before I ramble on, Episode 1 was done well then Episode 2 came along and it felt like I was being dragged through a zombie-action movie. The hubs were reduced, Prescott had instantly fallen which caused me to groan, Francine was dead and Conrad is determinant (basically dead) we're on the road again. Jesus is dropped onto us (because comic links? Regardless Jesus is awesome) , cliche return of asshole older brother... I don't know what it was, but I disliked Episode 2 due to this, the group around us have potential (like the group in season 2) but I fear this will be wasted.
Don't get me wrong, the direction the story took in Episode 1 I was all on board with, but by Episode 2 I'm starting to have my reservations about where it's going. The story is starting to feel like the comic itself, I enjoy the comic but it's just different from the game and not in a good way. For instance the return of David, The reveal that Clem was part of the new frontier, the romance between Kate and Javier, Kate acting like Lori in the flashback, the relationship between Tripp and Eleanor, the implication that Eleanor fancies Javier, the love triangle bound to occur between David, Kate and Javier, Gabe acting like Carl (neither characters I can stand, but I can accept are complex in their own ways) and now even comments being made that Gabe and Clem may become a thing (and for those of you who've read the comics, we know what happens when Carl enters his first relationship, something I don't want happening with Clem) over dramatising and rambling on I know, but back to the point.
Episode 2 sped on with the story, giving us little to no time to stop and breathe. Throwing cliche after cliche and the comic's drama-like tone to the story, rather than giving us time to develop our relationships with the people we are with, it feels like things are being thrown in my face and I dislike that.
In fact, does anyone notice the parallel to Season 2 here?
Season 2 Episode 1, Clem is alone, meets a group, finds a sanctuary (The cabin) one likeable character is killed (Pete).
Season 3 Episode 1, Clem is alone, meets Javier, goes to group, both find a sanctuary (Prescott) one likeable character is killed (Marianna)
Season 2 Episode 2, Return to sanctuary after death of likeable character, sanctuary instantly abandoned (cabin) travel, meet bearded messiah (Kenny), ends with standoff with bad guy (Carver's group)
Season 3 Episode 2, Return to sanctuary after death of likeable character, sanctuary attacked and abandoned (Prescott) travel, meet bearded messiah (Jesus) ends with standoff (or surrender) with bad guy (David and New frontier group)
Sorry for rambling, but I just wanted to point out some similarities and that I still liked the first two episodes of Season 3, like I did with Season 2, as the story has a clear direction and interesting characters. However my worry is the bad community we're going to end up trapped in we'll learn nothing about it.
Episode 3 will be the make or break point of Season 3 for me, the first two episodes of Season 2 built on Carver that much and there was a ton of implied history that could have been explored, but we ended up with In Harm's Way and Season 2 went downhill since then. Mainly due to the lack of interaction and hubs in Episode 3 that made all the new characters feel flat and cliched... now with have a similar situation with Episode 3 this season.
The New Frontier seem like a complex group of villains so far (which I'm loving) so having hubs and conversations with them will be essential to making this season work. Hopefully they don't make David and the new frontier, Carver and Troy clones and have the episode focusing on escaping the community, killing David who is simply an asshole, the new frontier being left behind and as Javier being torn between the conflict between... I dunno Tripp and Eleanor and deciding who you need to go with, whereas Jesus just up and leaves like Jane (but doesn't return) while Clementine just sits there and has flashbacks that have nothing to do with the story...
Again I apologize for rambling so much, but I understand your point and hope telltale listen to you to make Episode 3 work.
Yeah the achievements made me realize how fast the pacing was I was like " what already the next one?"
I've said it before and I'll say it again..
TTG needs to get away from this cinematic BS and go back to the way it used to make games... HUBS where you could explore at your own pace with logs of interactions and options... puzzles... real puzzles not that turbine BS... Make the gameplay identical to TWD S1..... why the hell they tinkered with the formula seems like a stupid meddling.. I mean why on earth would TTG change the formula for success...