I think the chances would go up drastically if they ever release it for 360. I saw a quote from one of the Telltale employees (it may have been Emily) that said "We want our games to be everywhere." So I guess it's always possible.
Why (Monkey Island) on PC/Wii and not XBLA or PSN?
There are a lot of logistics involved in episodic development, so in order to keep ourselves sane, we still prefer to lead on only one console for the initial run of a series (it's not uncommon for us to run it on another platform later on). They're all good channels, so we like to spread the joy around a little bit. Wii seems like a great platform for this; also we've already got two other series currently running on XBLA (Wallace & Gromit's Grand Adventures and Sam & Max Save the World), and our engine doesn't run on the Playstation yet, so the choice was easy.
PS3 has sold 25 million consoles, 360 has sold 30 million, I wouldn't say that's small, would you...?
I would love TOMI on PS3 as a Blu-Ray release with an extensive documentary on the making of.
Don't get me wrong. I love my PS3, and if TOMI comes out on the PS3 I will pick it up in a heartbeat. I hope Wallace and Gromit comes out for the PS3, too.
But considering there as many Wii owners just in the US as there are PS3 owners worldwide, you can see why Telltale would want to port to Wiiware first.
If they took the time to get their software running on Wii, it doesn't seem like it'd be much of a stretch to do the same with the PS3 at some point, but I expect most of their games to be pc/wii/360 only, since if you have your stuff running on PC it won't take much to throw it onto 360
Don't get me wrong. I love my PS3, and if TOMI comes out on the PS3 I will pick it up in a heartbeat. I hope Wallace and Gromit comes out for the PS3, too.
But considering there as many Wii owners just in the US as there are PS3 owners worldwide, you can see why Telltale would want to port to Wiiware first.
Just curious... I know that the XBLA is ahead of the PSN in sales... do you know any numbers about how many titles are sold through WiiWare? Just curious, because for some reason, I can't see the typical Wii owner doing a Wifi setup or even with an ethernet cable.
I think the main problem is the PS3 is a lot harder to program for.. So I imagine its quite a bit of work to get the telltale engine over to the PS3.. and especially for a smaller company.
I wonder if the fact that the Tell Tale Engine uses Direct3D for its graphics instead of OpenGL (I'm pretty sure this is true since it states in the system requirements that it needs DirectX 9) is the reason why it's not compatible with the PS3 yet. The PC and 360 are obviously compatible because they're both Direct3D (made by Microsoft). But then again, I'm sure the Wii doesn't use Direct3D graphics so....who knows. What DOES the Wii use, incidentally? OpenGL? Some other proprietary graphics library? I know the PS3 uses OpenGL...
Not sure, but the graphics wrapper isn't usually that much of a deal unless you want to get every last bit of performance and I doubt that's needed for a PS3 version. The basic stuff in relatively similar for GL and D3D and if you have wrappers as you usually do when you design a generic engine, it's not much of a deal.
Same applies for difficulty of programming the PS3. It's difficult when you want to get every last bit of performance, but if you mostly stick to the PPU and using the SPUs only to do sound processing and the like via Sony's libraries, then it shouldn't be much of an issue.
I can't see the typical Wii owner doing a Wifi setup or even with an ethernet cable.
And what exactly is a "typical Wii owner," you profiler, you? I suppose you think we're all missing a few teeth and live in a shack out in the mountains somewhere...
Sorry, I don't have numbers, but they probably wouldn't be too hard to find on them new-fangled internets.
And what exactly is a "typical Wii owner," you profiler, you? I suppose you think we're all missing a few teeth and live in a shack out in the mountains somewhere...
Sorry, I don't have numbers, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to find them on them new-fangled internets.
No, but the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play. They were happy when they plugged the power in and it just worked, like it had done on their SNES. I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet.
I use the Wifi on my Wii all the time. But I'm not a typical Wii owner. I've got my Wii loaded with Homebrew and the only reason I use its Wifi is for the Internet Channel and The Homebrew Browser (for installing and updating homebrew apps).
No, but the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play. They were happy when they plugged the power in and it just worked, like it had done on their SNES. I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet.
There are no doubt people as you describe. But a WiFi setup isn't all that hard these days and doesn't require a high level of technological adeptness to pull off. Most of the Wii users I know have internet connectivity.
Just curious... I know that the XBLA is ahead of the PSN in sales... do you know any numbers about how many titles are sold through WiiWare? Just curious, because for some reason, I can't see the typical Wii owner doing a Wifi setup or even with an ethernet cable.
'Online' isn't very well promoted by Nintendo. I'm sure a lot of owners are oblivious to its existence, or what can be done with it. Still, the news & weather & Mii contest channels, and a lot of disc-based game now using the internet connection for global ladders and online play (Mario Kart, being the obvious one), people are becoming aware that there are online capabilities.
We have a wireless router in the house for our home PCs, and the Wii detected it and tapped straight into it right out of the box, perhaps had to click on 'enable' in the Wii menu, I can't remember. Easiest online setup ever.
Unfortunately though you need to purchase an adapter for the Wii USB port if you wish to plug an ethernet cable into the Wii instead of using wireless.
No, but the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play. They were happy when they plugged the power in and it just worked, like it had done on their SNES. I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet.
Most of the X360 owners I know are incredible intelligent (one of them is a maths teacher that knows how to break currency exchange systems), yet I wouldn't consider them the 'typical xbox owner', as I am aware that the people I associate with do not represent a cross-section of society (and because of the xbox reputation for being played by jocks), just as the average wii owner you know probably is more reflective of the type of people you know than of society in general (unless you are somehow friends with the most averagest of average people), as I guess you hang out more with the kind of people who would buy a PS3 than I would for instance (I only know of one guy who owns a PS3, but that doesn't mean that no one is buying PS3s, just that I don't hang around with many people the PS3 is targetted at).
Unfortunately though you need to purchase an adapter for the Wii USB port if you wish to plug an ethernet cable into the Wii instead of using wireless.
Yeah, but that only will cost somewhere around $25 whereas a wireless adapter for the Xbox 360 costs $100. I will never understand that.
When I used to play my Wii (it has been a while), I started playing Brawl online on accident. Seriously, I was half paying attention and talking to someone, and thought I hit the versus CPU player, and it put me online against other players. I went on later to check out the market and stuff once I realized. That is how stupid easy it is to get online with a Wii. I bought about 5 of my favorite old-school games while I was at it, too. It takes exactly 0 tech-savviness to set up a Wii on wireless and to understand that the big button that says "Market" is where you can buy new stuff at. Anyone who has an interest in getting new games digitally with a Wii has the same capability as someone who has the same interest with a PS3 or a 360.
I wonder if the fact that the Tell Tale Engine uses Direct3D for its graphics instead of OpenGL (I'm pretty sure this is true since it states in the system requirements that it needs DirectX 9) is the reason why it's not compatible with the PS3 yet.
I'm playing TMI on linux and linux uses OpenGL (or it is more like the application "Wine" redirects Direct3D to OpenGL, or something like that), so that shouldn't be the problem.
Most of the X360 owners I know are incredible intelligent (one of them is a maths teacher that knows how to break currency exchange systems), yet I wouldn't consider them the 'typical xbox owner', as I am aware that the people I associate with do not represent a cross-section of society (and because of the xbox reputation for being played by jocks), just as the average wii owner you know probably is more reflective of the type of people you know than of society in general (unless you are somehow friends with the most averagest of average people), as I guess you hang out more with the kind of people who would buy a PS3 than I would for instance (I only know of one guy who owns a PS3, but that doesn't mean that no one is buying PS3s, just that I don't hang around with many people the PS3 is targetted at).
Either way, PC > consoles anyway, so nyah!
I'm aware that this is just my perception, that's why I asked if anybody knew any numbers... sales figures are hard to come by, but I figured that people who are interested in the Wii would probably know the sites where such information could be found.
The best I've been able to do so far is this: http://games.stumpnet.net/vcsales/
There are many question marks here (for one how can the total be the same as the US figures for all games), but if we assume that the data is correct, as is the multiplier (which is apparently derived from the financial reports) then we get roughly 100000 US sales for the best third party game... which is really, really low when you compare it to the total number of systems.
And if that's really the case, one has to wonder if a #10 spot on Xbox or PS3 isn't actually worth more than a #1 spot on Wiiware.
'Online' isn't very well promoted by Nintendo. I'm sure a lot of owners are oblivious to its existence, or what can be done with it. Still, the news & weather & Mii contest channels, and a lot of disc-based game now using the internet connection for global ladders and online play (Mario Kart, being the obvious one), people are becoming aware that there are online capabilities.
We have a wireless router in the house for our home PCs, and the Wii detected it and tapped straight into it right out of the box, perhaps had to click on 'enable' in the Wii menu, I can't remember. Easiest online setup ever.
Unfortunately though you need to purchase an adapter for the Wii USB port if you wish to plug an ethernet cable into the Wii instead of using wireless.
It's been a while since I first got my Wii...but doesn't it go through Internet options the first time you boot the system up and it does the initial config?
First, I'd say that the business people at TellTale probably are good at crunching numbers. Thus, if they thought it'd be better to be on PSN than WiiWare, they'd find a way to make it happen. That they haven't suggests that for them, at least right now, they get a better return on their investment via XBLA and WiiWare.
Second, I think it might be worth noting that there is a significantly higher number of original games available for XBLA and WiiWare than for PSN. This doesn't prove anything. But it does suggest that many companies may be thinking the way I'm suggesting TellTale might be. That is, XBLA and WiiWare are more profitable.
The point is not really XBLA vs. PSN. I don't really care about that, I'm merely interested in the behaviour of Wii users vs "traditional" consoles.
I just mention the PSN a lot because that's obviously what I have at home. XBLA is not something I think about terribly often and to be honest I constantly have to look that acronym up.
I wonder if other factors in Telltale's calculations might be the audience each console attracts, as well as how easy playing an adventure game would be on the various consoles.
The Wii always stood out as potentially a great console for adventure games because of the interface. Add the fact its audience is the casual gamer who'd be more attracted to adventure games than the latest expansion pack for Call of Duty: World at War, and maybe that's enough to give the Wii the edge, regardless of what the absolute # of games sold on PSN vs Wiiware turns out to be.
WedgeWalker, to answer the question you asked in a different thread, about how I got the 100000 from that statistic. First, they updated the document today. The one I looked at when I posted was almost entirely composed of first party titles and the highest listed third party title was somewhere around 14000, which would have meant 125000 and well, I only did a very rough calculation in my mind, and it came out "around 100000".
With the new document we get higher numbers, as the biggest third party title listed now is at 24000, meaning that an estimated number of 215000 US sales.
Frederick Kim, there are probably other factors, but it'll be quite hard to find any numbers on those
One thing that I just thought of: The typical (or say statistical average if you don't like the term) PS3 user is older than both Wii and XBox360 users. And older users typically also have some kind of PC, while younger players may have only a game console.
nah ps3 is a huge investment....it has a better chance of success on psp..i mean the graphics could be reduced or somthinglike that ..but psp version would be a hit and would cost less then ps3 ..better investment lesser inital cost
Actually, creating a PS3 version is probably cheaper. While the initial costs (SDK, development system, hiring advisers) may be higher, the actual porting would most likely be cheaper because the PS3 doesn't really need big architectural changes, just a few adjustments here and there.
The PSP on the other hand would probably require a complete rewrite and recreation of most of the assets.
Second, I think it might be worth noting that there is a significantly higher number of original games available for XBLA and WiiWare than for PSN. This doesn't prove anything. But it does suggest that many companies may be thinking the way I'm suggesting TellTale might be. That is, XBLA and WiiWare are more profitable.
No, it certainly doesn't prove anything, but neither does your post! What do you base that on? I certainly don't see it myself. They both have a number of good exclusive titles... and they both have a lot of rehashed crap and throwaway games as well. I'd have no trouble saying their downloadable titles are roughly equivalent.
The Wii version is by all accounts a turd and Telltale seems to have no real interest in producing a native OS X version once again, so here's hoping XBLA or PSN versions are in the pipe. I'd prefer to get it on my PS3 to be honest (and I'd like it even more on OS X!), but I'll take it where I can get it without sacrificing functionality.
The fact that the Wii don't do Direct X kind of shoots that theory. It's more of a case of they haven't found an excuse to do a PS3 version yet. (We'll see if that still applies when CSI: Deadly Intent hits).
I think it might be worth noting that there is a significantly higher number of original games available for XBLA and WiiWare than for PSN. This doesn't prove anything. But it does suggest that many companies may be thinking the way I'm suggesting TellTale might be. That is, XBLA and WiiWare are more profitable.
No, it certainly doesn't prove anything, but neither does your post! What do you base that on? I certainly don't see it myself. They both have a number of good exclusive titles... and they both have a lot of rehashed crap and throwaway games as well. I'd have no trouble saying their downloadable titles are roughly equivalent.
The Wii version is by all accounts a turd and Telltale seems to have no real interest in producing a native OS X version once again, so here's hoping XBLA or PSN versions are in the pipe. I'd prefer to get it on my PS3 to be honest (and I'd like it even more on OS X!), but I'll take it where I can get it without sacrificing functionality.
First, I don't consider it a turd. Many others don't. So, person who's showing an attitude for no apparent reason, it isn't a "turd by all accounts." It's not as smooth as many of us (myself included) would like. Sure. But sorry, it isn't a turd.
Second, as to what I base it on. Economics of free-markets. It's a simple matter of numbers.
As of today, there are 235 games available for download on XBLA (with the first games available beginning November 22, 2005). There are 114 games available for WiiWare in North America (with the first games available beginning May 12, 2008). According to my count, there are 99 games available for PSN (with the first games available beginning November 17, 2006).
XBLA has been going for roughly 45 months. WiiWare for roughly 15 months. And PSN for roughly 33 months.
That gives, for each system, an average number of releases per month of:
XBLA: 5.2222
WiiWare: 7.6
PSN: 3
XBLA games per months rate is 174% higher than PSN.
WiiWare games per month rate is 253% higher than PSN, and 145% higher than XBLA.
What can we draw from that? Nothing concrete, of course. But, all things being equal, it does suggest developers appear more eager to put their games on WiiWare than anything else. XBLA is next. And PSN is last.
We then ask why would a company be more interested in putting their game on one downloadable service as opposed to another? All things being equal the answer is simple: profit. Gaming companies are aiming to make money. If they feel they'll get more profit by putting a game on a particular service, that's where they'll put it. So, if they are more eager to put their games on WiiWare, then it's quite possible it's because they believe they'll get more profit distributing via WiiWare than other services.
Of course this is barring unusual circumstances and constraints. But it is something worth considering.
I want to make it clear. I'm not bashing the PS3 or the PSN. Or the XBox360 or XBLA for that matter. This isn't a fanboy issue. As I see it all 3 services have positives and negatives. It isn't a fanboy issue. It's a numbers issue.
Hans,
That's why I couldn't figure out your math. (I'm not the greatest at math so I wasn't sure). Ok, so 215,000 'copies' of Defend Your Castle were sold. We don't know when these figures were compiled. The most recent game to come out that's on that chart is My Pokemon Ranch for WiiWare which came out June 9, 2008. So it has to be sometime after that. By the end of that month, Nintendo had sold a total of approx. 13.08 million Wii units. So if we go with those numbers we're looking at 1.6% of all Wii console owners downloaded what was at the time the most popular WiiWare game (Defend Your Castle). Not a good percentage (although taking into account development costs it might still be profitable for XGen studios as that represents 1.075 million dollars in sales). Problem is, we don't know when this chart was compiled. But we have to figure it's old (as juggernauts like "World of Goo" aren't on there).
Also, regarding Wii owners and wifi, you said, "the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play...I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet. " I'm assuming these are only people you know in a casual sense, as the day before you said, "I don't even own a Wii or have any friends who own one (nothing but PS3s and PCs around me)."
Of course, all of our observations (including mine) are anecdotal. For what it's worth, I know of people, and have friends, who have Wii's. And my own experience (again, doesn't prove anything) is that most (but I don't think all) of them do know about the WiFi Connection and VC and WiiWare. The one family who I'm pretty sure doesn't know about all the on-line stuff only recently learned about this thing called the Mii channel where they could make Mii's. They'd been playing WiiSports for as long as they had the system (a few months I think) using the pre-made guest Miis!
Oh, and bringing this back to TTG, at least at certain times (I don't know if this held true all the way til now), SBCG4AP was doing significantly better on WiiWare than on PC.
Also, regarding Wii owners and wifi, you said, "the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play...I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet. " I'm assuming these are only people you know in a casual sense, as the day before you said, "I don't even own a Wii or have any friends who own one (nothing but PS3s and PCs around me)."
BTW, I'm not suggesting TTG shouldn't bring TMI out on PSN. Not at all. I don't want anyone to be deprived of what is so far a very very good game.
My point is simply that looking at the numbers, it may not be as profitable for them to do, and that might be part of why we haven't seen a TTG game on PS3 yet.
All I'm getting at is that I have friends, as opposed to acquaintances (some my age, some younger, some older) who have a Wii and know about the WiiShop Channel. But there's no way to know if my sample is any more representative of all Wii owners than yours. It may be. It very well may not be. Either way, do Wii owners know about the WiiShop Channel and know how to get onto it and use it is a good question. And it's natural we're going to wonder if our experiences are indicative of all Wii owners. But there's no way to know unless Nintendo gives us some solid real numbers...which seems unlikely.
And here's a relevant issue:
Clearly significantly less than 100% of all Wii owners frequent the WiiShop Channel. (Why else would Nintendo be trying to increase exposure for the Wii Shop Channel on their website and other places?)
I'd say it's also probable that less than 100% of all PS3 owners browse the PSN Store.
So the real question is, what about the hard numbers? How many Wii owners frequent the WiiShop Channel? And how many PS3 owners browse the PSN Store?
I don't know. And I'm ok with that. To a great extent, I personally don't care, as I don't have much desire to make it into a competition. I have no desire to discredit the PSN.
But the reality is TTG hasn't put anything on PS3 yet (though they've expressed a desire to do so eventually). And yet people (I'm not just talking about you Hans) seem to be looking for ways to discredit WiiWare as a service. This seems unreasonable to me, especially since TTG has put games on XBLA and WiiWare but not PSN yet. There must be a reason. But 'WiiWare is on the whole an inferior service' seems an unlikely contender.
You may wish TMI was on PSN. That's fine. I do too. But I see no reason to continue to cast hunch-based doubts on the other services in expressing your wishes.
I'm only trying to look at reasons why we see the reality of no TTG games on PSN yet. Numbers of folks on the services and what that means for profits is only one factor worth looking at. Others include what percentage of game sales does each company (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) take off the top, and the differing costs of developing for each system.
Either way, I'm glad the system I have happens to be the one TMI has come out on. And I hope for your sakes that if you don't have a Wii, it comes out on the system of your choice (unless you want to consider purchasing a Wii).
Okay, maybe "by all accounts" is a gross exaggeration, but I refuse to pay more for a lesser product. That's all there is to it, and it's insanely frustrating to me because it's the only platform I own that has a (native) version of it right now. 360 must be next, right? Right? I hope so...
WiiWare and the Wii itself has some serious limitations for downloadable content. I'm sure you're familiar with the size constraints by now, what user who buys content online isn't? That and the fact that purchased files are tied to the system instead of an account that'll be easily recoverable in event of an accident concerned me greatly. Even if the ToMI port was stellar, I'd still have reservations about throwing down money on more WiiWare titles. XBLA and PSN do not have this particular issue as your purchases are tied to your account rather than your system.
You make a lot of interesting points above, but what I took issue to was the "original" part. I wasn't exactly sure how to take that, as there's a loooooot of crap out there! The ease of developing for the 360 is certainly the reason that there's so much, but so much of what? For every XBLA gem it seems like there's five or ten dodgy ports of old games and so forth. Is the fact that there's less of that on PSN a good thing? I'm not wholly convinced of that myself, but I'd be curious to hear about what developers think about the signal-to-noise ratio on the more densely crowded console stores and how it affects their sales overall.
I wouldn't take TTG expressing their desire to do something as an indication that it's ever going to happen, though. PS3-only owners probably shouldn't get their hopes up unless they're masochists.
Comments
PS3 has sold 25 million consoles, 360 has sold 30 million, I wouldn't say that's small, would you...?
I would love TOMI on PS3 as a Blu-Ray release with an extensive documentary on the making of.
Don't get me wrong. I love my PS3, and if TOMI comes out on the PS3 I will pick it up in a heartbeat. I hope Wallace and Gromit comes out for the PS3, too.
But considering there as many Wii owners just in the US as there are PS3 owners worldwide, you can see why Telltale would want to port to Wiiware first.
Just curious... I know that the XBLA is ahead of the PSN in sales... do you know any numbers about how many titles are sold through WiiWare? Just curious, because for some reason, I can't see the typical Wii owner doing a Wifi setup or even with an ethernet cable.
Sorry, I'm just rambling on.
Same applies for difficulty of programming the PS3. It's difficult when you want to get every last bit of performance, but if you mostly stick to the PPU and using the SPUs only to do sound processing and the like via Sony's libraries, then it shouldn't be much of an issue.
And what exactly is a "typical Wii owner," you profiler, you? I suppose you think we're all missing a few teeth and live in a shack out in the mountains somewhere...
Sorry, I don't have numbers, but they probably wouldn't be too hard to find on them new-fangled internets.
No, but the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play. They were happy when they plugged the power in and it just worked, like it had done on their SNES. I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet.
There are no doubt people as you describe. But a WiFi setup isn't all that hard these days and doesn't require a high level of technological adeptness to pull off. Most of the Wii users I know have internet connectivity.
'Online' isn't very well promoted by Nintendo. I'm sure a lot of owners are oblivious to its existence, or what can be done with it. Still, the news & weather & Mii contest channels, and a lot of disc-based game now using the internet connection for global ladders and online play (Mario Kart, being the obvious one), people are becoming aware that there are online capabilities.
We have a wireless router in the house for our home PCs, and the Wii detected it and tapped straight into it right out of the box, perhaps had to click on 'enable' in the Wii menu, I can't remember. Easiest online setup ever.
Unfortunately though you need to purchase an adapter for the Wii USB port if you wish to plug an ethernet cable into the Wii instead of using wireless.
Either way, PC > consoles anyway, so nyah!
Yeah, but that only will cost somewhere around $25 whereas a wireless adapter for the Xbox 360 costs $100. I will never understand that.
I'm playing TMI on linux and linux uses OpenGL (or it is more like the application "Wine" redirects Direct3D to OpenGL, or something like that), so that shouldn't be the problem.
I'm aware that this is just my perception, that's why I asked if anybody knew any numbers... sales figures are hard to come by, but I figured that people who are interested in the Wii would probably know the sites where such information could be found.
The best I've been able to do so far is this:
http://games.stumpnet.net/vcsales/
There are many question marks here (for one how can the total be the same as the US figures for all games), but if we assume that the data is correct, as is the multiplier (which is apparently derived from the financial reports) then we get roughly 100000 US sales for the best third party game... which is really, really low when you compare it to the total number of systems.
And if that's really the case, one has to wonder if a #10 spot on Xbox or PS3 isn't actually worth more than a #1 spot on Wiiware.
I'd just love to get any solid numbers on this.
It's been a while since I first got my Wii...but doesn't it go through Internet options the first time you boot the system up and it does the initial config?
First, I'd say that the business people at TellTale probably are good at crunching numbers. Thus, if they thought it'd be better to be on PSN than WiiWare, they'd find a way to make it happen. That they haven't suggests that for them, at least right now, they get a better return on their investment via XBLA and WiiWare.
Second, I think it might be worth noting that there is a significantly higher number of original games available for XBLA and WiiWare than for PSN. This doesn't prove anything. But it does suggest that many companies may be thinking the way I'm suggesting TellTale might be. That is, XBLA and WiiWare are more profitable.
The point is not really XBLA vs. PSN. I don't really care about that, I'm merely interested in the behaviour of Wii users vs "traditional" consoles.
I just mention the PSN a lot because that's obviously what I have at home. XBLA is not something I think about terribly often and to be honest I constantly have to look that acronym up.
The Wii always stood out as potentially a great console for adventure games because of the interface. Add the fact its audience is the casual gamer who'd be more attracted to adventure games than the latest expansion pack for Call of Duty: World at War, and maybe that's enough to give the Wii the edge, regardless of what the absolute # of games sold on PSN vs Wiiware turns out to be.
With the new document we get higher numbers, as the biggest third party title listed now is at 24000, meaning that an estimated number of 215000 US sales.
=======================================================
Urg, sorry, they didn't update it today. Turns out I somehow managed to check the wrong section of the document earlier.
=======================================================
Frederick Kim, there are probably other factors, but it'll be quite hard to find any numbers on those
One thing that I just thought of: The typical (or say statistical average if you don't like the term) PS3 user is older than both Wii and XBox360 users. And older users typically also have some kind of PC, while younger players may have only a game console.
The PSP on the other hand would probably require a complete rewrite and recreation of most of the assets.
No, it certainly doesn't prove anything, but neither does your post! What do you base that on? I certainly don't see it myself. They both have a number of good exclusive titles... and they both have a lot of rehashed crap and throwaway games as well. I'd have no trouble saying their downloadable titles are roughly equivalent.
The Wii version is by all accounts a turd and Telltale seems to have no real interest in producing a native OS X version once again, so here's hoping XBLA or PSN versions are in the pipe. I'd prefer to get it on my PS3 to be honest (and I'd like it even more on OS X!), but I'll take it where I can get it without sacrificing functionality.
First, I don't consider it a turd. Many others don't. So, person who's showing an attitude for no apparent reason, it isn't a "turd by all accounts." It's not as smooth as many of us (myself included) would like. Sure. But sorry, it isn't a turd.
Second, as to what I base it on. Economics of free-markets. It's a simple matter of numbers.
As of today, there are 235 games available for download on XBLA (with the first games available beginning November 22, 2005). There are 114 games available for WiiWare in North America (with the first games available beginning May 12, 2008). According to my count, there are 99 games available for PSN (with the first games available beginning November 17, 2006).
XBLA has been going for roughly 45 months. WiiWare for roughly 15 months. And PSN for roughly 33 months.
That gives, for each system, an average number of releases per month of:
XBLA: 5.2222
WiiWare: 7.6
PSN: 3
XBLA games per months rate is 174% higher than PSN.
WiiWare games per month rate is 253% higher than PSN, and 145% higher than XBLA.
What can we draw from that? Nothing concrete, of course. But, all things being equal, it does suggest developers appear more eager to put their games on WiiWare than anything else. XBLA is next. And PSN is last.
We then ask why would a company be more interested in putting their game on one downloadable service as opposed to another? All things being equal the answer is simple: profit. Gaming companies are aiming to make money. If they feel they'll get more profit by putting a game on a particular service, that's where they'll put it. So, if they are more eager to put their games on WiiWare, then it's quite possible it's because they believe they'll get more profit distributing via WiiWare than other services.
Of course this is barring unusual circumstances and constraints. But it is something worth considering.
I want to make it clear. I'm not bashing the PS3 or the PSN. Or the XBox360 or XBLA for that matter. This isn't a fanboy issue. As I see it all 3 services have positives and negatives. It isn't a fanboy issue. It's a numbers issue.
Hans,
That's why I couldn't figure out your math. (I'm not the greatest at math so I wasn't sure). Ok, so 215,000 'copies' of Defend Your Castle were sold. We don't know when these figures were compiled. The most recent game to come out that's on that chart is My Pokemon Ranch for WiiWare which came out June 9, 2008. So it has to be sometime after that. By the end of that month, Nintendo had sold a total of approx. 13.08 million Wii units. So if we go with those numbers we're looking at 1.6% of all Wii console owners downloaded what was at the time the most popular WiiWare game (Defend Your Castle). Not a good percentage (although taking into account development costs it might still be profitable for XGen studios as that represents 1.075 million dollars in sales). Problem is, we don't know when this chart was compiled. But we have to figure it's old (as juggernauts like "World of Goo" aren't on there).
Also, regarding Wii owners and wifi, you said, "the people I've met who own a Wii where all (except one) not too interested in technology and just wanted to play...I'm not saying that's what all Wii owners are like, but that's my impression of the ones I did meet. " I'm assuming these are only people you know in a casual sense, as the day before you said, "I don't even own a Wii or have any friends who own one (nothing but PS3s and PCs around me)."
Of course, all of our observations (including mine) are anecdotal. For what it's worth, I know of people, and have friends, who have Wii's. And my own experience (again, doesn't prove anything) is that most (but I don't think all) of them do know about the WiFi Connection and VC and WiiWare. The one family who I'm pretty sure doesn't know about all the on-line stuff only recently learned about this thing called the Mii channel where they could make Mii's. They'd been playing WiiSports for as long as they had the system (a few months I think) using the pre-made guest Miis!
Oh, and bringing this back to TTG, at least at certain times (I don't know if this held true all the way til now), SBCG4AP was doing significantly better on WiiWare than on PC.
Correct. Not everybody I meet is my friend.
My point is simply that looking at the numbers, it may not be as profitable for them to do, and that might be part of why we haven't seen a TTG game on PS3 yet.
All I'm getting at is that I have friends, as opposed to acquaintances (some my age, some younger, some older) who have a Wii and know about the WiiShop Channel. But there's no way to know if my sample is any more representative of all Wii owners than yours. It may be. It very well may not be. Either way, do Wii owners know about the WiiShop Channel and know how to get onto it and use it is a good question. And it's natural we're going to wonder if our experiences are indicative of all Wii owners. But there's no way to know unless Nintendo gives us some solid real numbers...which seems unlikely.
Clearly significantly less than 100% of all Wii owners frequent the WiiShop Channel. (Why else would Nintendo be trying to increase exposure for the Wii Shop Channel on their website and other places?)
I'd say it's also probable that less than 100% of all PS3 owners browse the PSN Store.
So the real question is, what about the hard numbers? How many Wii owners frequent the WiiShop Channel? And how many PS3 owners browse the PSN Store?
I don't know. And I'm ok with that. To a great extent, I personally don't care, as I don't have much desire to make it into a competition. I have no desire to discredit the PSN.
But the reality is TTG hasn't put anything on PS3 yet (though they've expressed a desire to do so eventually). And yet people (I'm not just talking about you Hans) seem to be looking for ways to discredit WiiWare as a service. This seems unreasonable to me, especially since TTG has put games on XBLA and WiiWare but not PSN yet. There must be a reason. But 'WiiWare is on the whole an inferior service' seems an unlikely contender.
You may wish TMI was on PSN. That's fine. I do too. But I see no reason to continue to cast hunch-based doubts on the other services in expressing your wishes.
I'm only trying to look at reasons why we see the reality of no TTG games on PSN yet. Numbers of folks on the services and what that means for profits is only one factor worth looking at. Others include what percentage of game sales does each company (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) take off the top, and the differing costs of developing for each system.
Either way, I'm glad the system I have happens to be the one TMI has come out on. And I hope for your sakes that if you don't have a Wii, it comes out on the system of your choice (unless you want to consider purchasing a Wii).
fixed
WiiWare and the Wii itself has some serious limitations for downloadable content. I'm sure you're familiar with the size constraints by now, what user who buys content online isn't? That and the fact that purchased files are tied to the system instead of an account that'll be easily recoverable in event of an accident concerned me greatly. Even if the ToMI port was stellar, I'd still have reservations about throwing down money on more WiiWare titles. XBLA and PSN do not have this particular issue as your purchases are tied to your account rather than your system.
You make a lot of interesting points above, but what I took issue to was the "original" part. I wasn't exactly sure how to take that, as there's a loooooot of crap out there! The ease of developing for the 360 is certainly the reason that there's so much, but so much of what? For every XBLA gem it seems like there's five or ten dodgy ports of old games and so forth. Is the fact that there's less of that on PSN a good thing? I'm not wholly convinced of that myself, but I'd be curious to hear about what developers think about the signal-to-noise ratio on the more densely crowded console stores and how it affects their sales overall.
I wouldn't take TTG expressing their desire to do something as an indication that it's ever going to happen, though. PS3-only owners probably shouldn't get their hopes up unless they're masochists.
Make it happen Telltale! :cool:
Thanks trapplerton.
I also could have said:
XBLA games per months rate is 174% of PSN's.
WiiWare games per month rate is 253% of PSN's, and 145% of XBLA's.
But yeah, I can't use the larger numbers and "higher." Good call.