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Monkey Island ripped off Pirates of the Caribbean!

Thriftweed Fancy PantsThriftweed Fancy Pants
edited May 2011 in Tales of Monkey Island
Just kidding...:p

I've read here and there on this forum that Pirates of the Caribbean ripped off Monkey Island, but I have yet to hear the whole story on this.

Anybody know?

(Actually, I think I read somewhere that Ron Gilbert was inspired by Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean ride, so maybe Monkey Island wasn't the original...?)
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Comments

  • dumpling321dumpling321
    edited August 2009
    from what i've heard PotC the ride inspired Ron Gilbert when he was making the first MI game; however, the storyline was not in existance and that was completely Ron Gilberts mind...

    i think the general consensus is that since monkey islands STORY came before PotC the movie (even though the ride was in existance before MI) and since alot of the PotC movies' plot elements are extremely dead on similar to MI (ghost pirates, voodoo ladies, smart-ass main characters, the heroine is the governors daughter, davy jones and lechuck both had tragic romances, set in the carribean, etc etc etc) that obviously PotC ripped off MI, which truly isnt that much of a stretch.
  • Dan2593Dan2593
    edited August 2009
    POTC borrowed parts from Monkey Island since it was based on the same thing. 1 and 2 are the most similar. POTC3 is the worse because it's the most original.

    However it got to the extent that Lucas Arts said it wouldn't do a film due to the similarities between the two. Either way POTC is the best film based on a game yet.
  • Juicius MaximusJuicius Maximus
    edited August 2009
    As I understood it, the writer of PoTC previously wrote the MI script, which would certainly account for any similarities. Yes, MI was inspired by the ride and contains a few direct references to it (the dog with the key in the jail, CMI's intro w/Guybrush floating into the middle of a ship/fort battle). But SMI also contained a few references to Treasure Island (Herman Toothrot is definitely a nod to Ben Gunn), and Treasure Island, being the iconic work of pirate fiction that it is, undoubtedly influenced the PoTC ride. So in other words, it's all pretty incestuous.
  • Thriftweed Fancy PantsThriftweed Fancy Pants
    edited August 2009
    Hmm, according to Wikipedia, it would seem the "original" is actually a book called "On Stranger Tides."

    Now that you mention it, there ARE a lot of similarities between PotC and MI...

    No wonder I like PotC movie so much!

    But maybe Tales of MI has some inspiration from PotC as well?

    Davy Jones vs. LeChuck (Bearded similarities?)
  • darknessofheartdarknessofheart
    edited August 2009
    It seems that in POTC, you have two characters that make up the personality of the one of the main characters in Monkey Island. Will and Jack make up Guybrush. On one hand, he's a very clean cut, likable guy who only wants to be with the girl of his dreams. On the other hand, he is an incredibly selfish anti-hero and commits numerous crimes for the most trivial reason. Yet it's impossible not to like him and he has his own limits and a conscience. There are simply some lengths he will never resort to.

    Barbossa and Davy Jones are LeChuck. One is in control of undead pirates and plunders the Caribbean and abducts a young woman, using a deserted, cursed, and almost impossible to find island as a base of operations, while the other is known as the devil of the seas and kills and destroys due to his own love for another woman.

    Elizabeth is Elaine due to her ability to take care of herself, her love of piracy and a man being a pirate, but also has a good heart and despises the pirates that seek to only murder and accumulate wealth and power (LeChuck). Strangely Governor Swann also makes up Elaine for the simple reason that he's a governor.
  • meandermeander
    edited August 2009
    I've just finished reading On Stranger Tides... it's got the whole pirate/daring escapades/voodoo magic thing that both MI and POTC (I'm talking about the movie, never seen the rides) have. It's very very dark in places, reminds me a lot of MI2 in that respect.

    But MI wasn't a direct ripoff by any means - I think it's more "inspired by" On Stranger Tides. The plots have certain similarities, but major differences, just like MI and POTC.

    It's certainly worth a read though - found it at the local library :)
  • Juicius MaximusJuicius Maximus
    edited August 2009
    Fans have been talking about "On Stranger Tides" ever since Ron namechecked it. Sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out one of these days.
  • laryslarys
    edited August 2009
    Here what Ron Gilbert wrote in his blog:
    http://grumpygamer.com/8123463
    So, I'm looking through my neighbor's window with a pair of binoculars, trying to see the TV to figure out if they have HBO that I can steal when the latest trailer for the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie comes on and I'm thinking to myself, "Hey, I've seen this before... no... I've played this before... no... I've designed this before!" I'm thinking "This is the Monkey Island Movie!" Yeah, they kind of screwed up his beard, but that's LeChuck, and let's be honest, if I'd thought of the squid tentacles for a beard, I would have done that.

    So I rush out to my mailbox like an six-year old hopped up on Pixy Sticks with a Pop Rocks chaser figuring there must be a big fat royalty check waiting for me. No such luck. Two overdue credit card bills and a flier from some guy offering to Trim My Hedges, which I'm sure is just an innuendo for Wash My Cars, and I think we all know what that means. I tuck the flier away so I'll know where to find it later and head back to the house.

    I'm not worried. Disney will do the right thing.

    Its quite funny actually. But i didn't get the irony in the end
    I'm not worried. Disney will do the right thing
    Why did he said that?
  • meandermeander
    edited August 2009
    Do the right thing by paying him royalties?
  • Juicius MaximusJuicius Maximus
    edited August 2009
    I think Disney was responsible for leaving the hedge-trimming flier in Ron's mailbox
  • meandermeander
    edited August 2009
    I wonder if THEY were the ones responsible for the bushes around Elaine's mansion in EMI... those were quite cutesy in a what-the-hell-did-you-do-to-my-lawn kinda way.
  • jp-30jp-30
    edited August 2009
    http://www.worldofmi.com/comments.php?type=news&id=1259&action=read

    and

    http://www.miwiki.net/Monkey_Island_movie
  • Astro GnocciAstro Gnocci
    edited August 2009
    meander wrote: »
    I've just finished reading On Stranger Tides... it's got the whole pirate/daring escapades/voodoo magic thing that both MI and POTC (I'm talking about the movie, never seen the rides) have. It's very very dark in places, reminds me a lot of MI2 in that respect.

    But MI wasn't a direct ripoff by any means - I think it's more "inspired by" On Stranger Tides. The plots have certain similarities, but major differences, just like MI and POTC.

    It's certainly worth a read though - found it at the local library :)

    I started reading it two days ago and i'm about halfway through.
    I can defintely agree with what you've said already, and i love it so far ;)
  • jp-30jp-30
    edited August 2009
    Thiftweed Fancy Pants wrote: »
    Hmm, according to Wikipedia, it would seem the "original" is actually a book called "On Stranger Tides."

    http://grumpygamer.com/6476640
  • Lennie MelvinLennie Melvin
    edited August 2009
    Not sure how much this supports the theory but it's a good watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_unbVaCe8a4

    I personally like to think that PotC ripped off Monkey Island but then I am VERY biased...
  • PretenderPretender
    edited August 2009
    I didn't like Johny Depp at all acting super queer and all that (I know he was supposed to be drunk).. I guybrush character would have been far better.. The movies aren't that great to be honest.. couldn't even sit through the third and i really like monkey island
  • Astro GnocciAstro Gnocci
    edited August 2009
    Thought the first one was pretty good. Not GREAT but still good.
    Don't remember much of the second one but i remember thinking it was kinda lame (hadn't seen the first one then).
    Didn't see the third one and don't really plan to.
  • Lennie MelvinLennie Melvin
    edited August 2009
    Lol, yeah I watched the first one but got bored waiting for Guybrush to show up :p
  • Thriftweed Fancy PantsThriftweed Fancy Pants
    edited August 2009
    The Kraken?
  • BMWM5erBMWM5er
    edited August 2009
    the beginning of POTC2 reminded me of MI's gameplay in general

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    captain dread's cousin?
  • RockNRollRockNRoll
    edited August 2009
    PoTC was obviously influenced heavily by Monkey Island. The correlations are everywhere, but one of the most flagrant ones is the skeleton ghost pirates. I mean c'mon. That's not from the ride.
  • hippodragon9hippodragon9
    edited August 2009
    I have no idea. I would like to think MI inspired PotC in an offbeat kinda way, since i didn't really like PotC and the characters weren't that similar.
    Also because MI is absolutely freaking brilliant.
  • WinterSnowblindWinterSnowblind
    edited August 2009
    Just for the record, the Pirates of the Carribean ride has no ties to the movies what-so-ever (although I have heard they recently added a Jack Sparrow). It's simply a water ride were you sit in a little boat on rails and go around a little pirate cove, there's lots of animatronic pirates, big ships and piratey music playing and that's about it.

    It's a fun ride, and it apparantly was in the inspiration for making a game based on pirates, but there's no way you could claim Monkey Island ripped that off. :P
  • darknessofheartdarknessofheart
    edited August 2009
    Thiftweed Fancy Pants wrote: »
    The Kraken?

    Speaking of the Kraken, anyone else wondering if that may make an appearance in Tales?
  • Thriftweed Fancy PantsThriftweed Fancy Pants
    edited August 2009
    If it did made an appearance, it would look like MI is stealing ideas from PotC.
  • RockNRollRockNRoll
    edited August 2009
    WinterSnowblind wrote: »
    Just for the record, the Pirates of the Carribean ride has no ties to the movies what-so-ever (although I have heard they recently added a Jack Sparrow). It's simply a water ride were you sit in a little boat on rails and go around a little pirate cove, there's lots of animatronic pirates, big ships and piratey music playing and that's about it.

    It's a fun ride, and it apparantly was in the inspiration for making a game based on pirates, but there's no way you could claim Monkey Island ripped that off. :P

    that is way extreme. monkey island clearly borrows heavily from PoTC the ride. the whole style and mood, not to mention explicit scenes, and the entire concept of a boy in a theme park world coming to life. the whole style and brand of pirate culture isn't even based on history nearly as much as it is directly based off of treasure island (and PoTC)

    And your assertion that PoTC is no way connected to the movies is just absurd. Nearly every scene from the ride can be found in the movies.
  • darknessofheartdarknessofheart
    edited August 2009
    Thiftweed Fancy Pants wrote: »
    If it did made an appearance, it would look like MI is stealing ideas from PotC.

    Well I really wouldn't care. The Kraken would be awesome in the game if done right. I wouldn't want an opportunity like that to be passed up just because it was in a pirates of the Caribbean movie, which was taken for granted and just thrown out of the third movie as just a rotting corpse. POTC have over a dozen Monkey Island moments, so the game having just one similar aspect, one that it a part of pirate lore anyway, would not be bad.

    Cp3, lair of the leviathan seems to be where the story stems into darker territory and the title may be a reference to the Kraken. I'm just judging that based on the title, the title is much darker and creepier sounding than the first two. It taking place in a lair where something like the Kraken is lurking at any possible corner would be creepy and have that same feeling as the end of Monkey Island 2 with LeChuck lurking, never knowing where or when he was and when he was going to appear. It most likely is the sea sponge, but that isn't nearly as creepy as a gigantic sea monster.
  • SubSidalSubSidal
    edited August 2009
    I rode the POTC ride and I must tell you: neither MI or POTC are based on the ride. Ron Gilbert only got the idea of a pirates game while he was riding it and the ride has no cursed skeleton pirates (or zombies), no voodoo elements, no voodoo lady, etc... Imho Will is Guybrush in SMI and Jack Sparrow is Guybrush in MI2 (look at the script only, obviously Jonnhy Depp gave the character quite a twist, but if you analyze the script you'll see what I mean). One of the writers of POTC (I think it was Ted Elliot, not sure right now) was asked by Steven Spielberg to write a MI script. He finished it, but then Industrial Light and Magic cancelled the project. A few months later he submits a script to Disney called POTC. So POTC is a MI ripoff admit it or not.
  • petethepandapetethepanda
    edited August 2009
    As others have said, On Stranger Tides inspired Ron Gilbert to create Monkey Island 1 and 2 and the PotC ride influenced the general "feel," but the screenwriters of the PotC movie weren't inspired by Monkey Island.

    Man, I hope Gilbert tells us his original plan for MI3 someday. I loved where it was going at the end of 2.
  • MrFerderMrFerder
    edited August 2009
    Lennie Melvin wrote: »
    Not sure how much this supports the theory but it's a good watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_unbVaCe8a4

    Glad you liked it. I'm thinking of making a longer version with even more comparisons now that SoMI has been released with voices.
    This video is the rough-cut of the trailer when I had just compiled the scenes but hadn't synced it to the EFMI audio. It features a lot of very monkey island-like moments that I wasn't able to fit in the final video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCjiSyrFlp0
  • Juicius MaximusJuicius Maximus
    edited August 2009
    MI isn't based on anything. The PoTC ride, Treasure Island, On Stranger Tides, these are all just inspirations for the original pirate comedy adventure game we all love so much.
  • UdvarnokyUdvarnoky
    edited August 2009
    Dan2593 wrote: »
    POTC borrowed parts from Monkey Island since it was based on the same thing. 1 and 2 are the most similar. POTC3 is the worse because it's the most original.

    There are tons of MI similarities in POTC3. What was Shipwreck Cove if not Woodtick by another name? There's a background gag involving a mast breaking off. The relationship between Beckett and Davy Jones was also quite similar to that of Ozzie Mandrill and LeChuck in EMI.
  • darknessofheartdarknessofheart
    edited August 2009
    Udvarnoky wrote: »
    There are tons of MI similarities in POTC3. What was Shipwreck Cove if not Woodtick by another name? There's a background gag involving a mast breaking off. The relationship between Beckett and Davy Jones was also quite similar to that of Ozzie Mandrill and LeChuck in EMI.

    Very true. Ozzie was very similar to Beckett, both in control of organizations that wanted to eradicate pirates and monopolize the Caribbean. Both made deals with supernatural beings, the only difference being that LeChuck wanted to helps in the plans until the end. Also the fact that the villains were using the position of governor to aid in their plans.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius
    edited August 2009
    I think the most obvious references to Monkey Island (if they are not from another source) are: the dog holding the key of the prision, and the Voodoo Lady living in a swamp.

    In my opinion these two things were exclusive from Monkey Island, correct me if you saw them before out of Monkey Island.
    Maybe leaving keys guarded by trained dogs was usual some centuries ago? Dont know.
  • SHODANFreemanSHODANFreeman
    edited August 2009
    Ignatius wrote: »
    I think the most obvious references to Monkey Island (if they are not from another source) are: the dog holding the key of the prision, and the Voodoo Lady living in a swamp.

    In my opinion these two things were exclusive from Monkey Island, correct me if you saw them before out of Monkey Island.
    Maybe leaving keys guarded by trained dogs was usual some centuries ago? Dont know.

    The dog with the key was in the POTC ride way before it was in MI.
  • WinterSnowblindWinterSnowblind
    edited August 2009
    RockNRoll wrote: »
    that is way extreme. monkey island clearly borrows heavily from PoTC the ride. the whole style and mood, not to mention explicit scenes, and the entire concept of a boy in a theme park world coming to life. the whole style and brand of pirate culture isn't even based on history nearly as much as it is directly based off of treasure island (and PoTC)

    And your assertion that PoTC is no way connected to the movies is just absurd. Nearly every scene from the ride can be found in the movies.

    If that's true, then they have massively renovated the ride, since I was last there in 2000 to make it more like the movie, as I can assure you there was no connections to it what-so-ever before the movie was released.

    The mood and atmosphere may be similar, yes, but that's a fairly typical pirate thing. Like I said, the ride obviously acted as an inspiration, but it featured no kind of story that could have been "ripped off" from it.

    Edit: After checking up on Wikipedia, appranantly they did extensive refurbishments in 2006 to include simalrities to the movies.
  • SpadgeSpadge
    edited August 2009
    It's just a funny adventure set in a pirate world. It plays on some of the pirate clichés, just as PoTC, but it also has a great story and adorable characters. Does that mean much? Only if you think every fantasy book written in the last 50 years ripped off Tolkin.

    P.S. Errol Flynn is the original Guybrush Threepwood.
  • Thriftweed Fancy PantsThriftweed Fancy Pants
    edited August 2009
    I think Ron said it best:
    When I am in the early stages of designing, I'll read a lot of books, listen to a lot of music and watch a lot of movies. I'll pick up little ideas here and there. We in the business call it stealing.

    Pirates call it plundering. Steal and be stolen from - it's the pirate way!
  • IgnatiusIgnatius
    edited August 2009
    Pale Man wrote: »
    The dog with the key was in the POTC ride way before it was in MI.

    Thanks for pointing that out, i was suspicious about that one. It was really the same thing in both franchises.

    Now, for the people that said that neither PoTC or Monkey Island made any reference to the ride, there you go.

    What about the Voodoo Lady or Voodoo in general? Is some of that on the ride?
  • Jace TaranJace Taran
    edited August 2009
    There's no Voodoo lady at all in the ride, or any kind of voodoo. The POTC movie isn't based on the ride, but it is heavily inspired from it. Pretty much every aspect from the ride was worked into the movie. They came up with a plot and characters that were unique to the movie, but many of the scenes, as well as dialogue, were taken almost directly from the ride.

    Here are some of the things taken from the ride:

    -The song ("Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me" etc)
    -A pirate ship firing on an English port in the middle of the night
    -A skeleton drinking rum
    -Pirtates chasing women, drinking massive amounts of rum (the drunk guy on the barrel, for instance, is directly from the ride)
    -the line "Dead men tell no tales"
    -The group of 5-6 men trying all at once, and in vain, to lure the dog with the key


    That's just from the first one, and there are probably others. The third one had even more stuff from the ride (mostly dialogue). For example, Barbosa saying, "These be the last friendly words you'll hear," and during the blackout after they go over the edge, you hear audio clips that are literally recordings from the ride (for instance, the pirate auctioning wenches who says, "Go on dearie, show 'em your larboard side").
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