My First Impressions of Season 3
It's been almost a month, but I finally did a first impressions video of season 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A6Tmisi2GE
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It's been almost a month, but I finally did a first impressions video of season 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A6Tmisi2GE
Comments
You make some very valid points. I'm also upset the writers made her more like Jane this Season. The side characters also lack a backstory or any interesting qualities
At this point all i'm wishing for is a good remaining season and the FINAL end to Telltales Walking Dead. It's time to put this series to rest after ANF.
How'd I miss this? I'll take a listen eventually.
Edit: Ew...you tore this game a yet another asshole! And I definitely agree with that point about being a survivor not equaling being a dick.
And I see you stole my action figure joke too, eh?
I stopped listening when you complained about MIchonne. This is just the same old whining that we have been seeing these past weeks...and really a YouTube vide without video..you might as well blogged about it. Sure I want more Clem...I think she is the heart and soul of the series.
You say Kirkman being involved was a bad thing...even though he was closely working with Telltale during season 1. So I have to question your understanding of season 1..let alone anything else related to the game.
Disagree on season 2 sucking. Whilst it wasn't nearly as good as season 1, it was still a good game and developed Clementine pretty well in my opinion. Agreed with most of what you said with Clementine in season 3. The main problem isn't so much Clementine's personality though (even though they are going a bit too far with the hardend survivor thing). It's the lack of development, lack of interaction and lack of chemistry with the main character. Like you said, Clementine could be replaced by anyone and it wouldn't change much.
Also, how many new players are going to see Clementine as this amazing character when she has such little screentime and development?
From what I can tell, Kirkman's 'involvement' is this: Telltale comes up with some ideas they're not sure about, they run it by Kirkman like "hey bro, can we do this?" and he's like "sure thing, man" or "no way, pal"
That's about the full extent of his 'involvement' in this series. Ergo, he does sweet FA when it comes to this game
People just use him as a scapegoat, either due to misinformation, or false assumptions
I'm not going to act like Season 3 isn't flawed. Because it is. I agree with some of your points regarding the treatment of the Season Two endings and Telltale putting a ton of emphasis on the "new player" perspective, although I find it a little off putting that you legitimately think it's insulting when other people still like Clementine's character despite your own feelings towards her. You do realize that art is subjective and there's no right or wrong way to interpret it, right? If you hate Clementine's character, that's fine. Go right on ahead and hate her. I'm not stopping you. But there's no need to make her fans out to be the most mindless idiots in the world.
Well, except in very specific circumstances, like this:
That is not art
That is a fucking square tile hung up on the wall
It's a matter off perspective.
Whoa, those are some fancy lines! Now THAT'S art!
(Don't ban me bb i lov u)
I really didn't mean to. It's just how he looks.
"Bawwww! I don't agree with this guy so I won't even listen to what he has to say!"
Well, since you don't want to listen to anything I have to say, I guess you won't mind me telling you that I understand this series as well as Clementine for better than you do, and better than most of this forum for that matter. Kirkman was not closely involved in the creation of season 1, and him being involved with season 3 is bad because he's an uncreative hack who should've ended the comics years ago when he ran out of ideas.
I do find it curious that ever since Kirkman's interview about TWD Michonne where he said we'd be "checking in on Clementine again" not another word has been uttered about his involvement in season 3. Either Telltale is keeping quiet about it, it's as you say and he's not actually that involved in it, or he gave the idea the he was more involved in it than he is.
This is a good point. Aside from being an unlikable character this season, Clementine also doesn't get enough attention to appeal to new players.
Taste is subjective, but quality is not. I'm just gonna blunt here, stupid people have bad opinions and when they're confronted about them, they jump to the "it's just your opinion" defense because it's all they have. You can like season 3 Clementine, but that doesn't change the fact that she's a bad character who's badly written, horribly handled and has no character development. People who like her believe the opposite of those things, which is why I take issue with them liking her. I also take issue with it because these are the people Telltale listens to when it comes feedback.
Let me put it this way, do you like the bandits from season 1? Or Michelle? Or the bandits that attacked Christa? Because that's the type of character Clementine is now. If you don't like those characters, I can't see why you could like season 3 Clementine.
Wow. Way to insult the intelligence of anyone who dares have a different opinion than you. Oh no, wait. I'm not allowed to jump to that because apparently that's not a good counterargument in your book and it makes me a stupid person. Your entire argument just lost all credibility with that one statement right then and there. I guess I should've expected as much, considering how you actually legitimately believe that there's such a thing as a wrong opinion and yours is the only one that matters.
I'm not even gonna waste my time with this anymore. Seeing some of the other comments you posted in this thread, you're nothing more than pretentious and close-minded. So it's pointless to even try to have a civil discussion. Have a good day.
The earth is flat, gravity is what makes things float, and eating dog shit cures cancer. You can't say any of these statements are wrong, they're just my opinion.
I don't think you understand what an opinion is, making arguing with you pointless.
[removed]
I know, it's fine. Cuz its true.
Please, if you're so smart then by all means, explain to me what exactly is wrong with my argument. After all, if my argument is "the most illogical argument in the history of mankind" then surely one with such high levels of intelligence such as yourself, should be able to easily refute it.
Eeh...admittedly, you could've worded that a little better. After all, smart people can have bad opinions too and good opinions can be had by stupid people.
(Everyone but the Savelots Bandits and probably Winston, anyway)
Though the problem isn't that she's acting like any of them(though more Michelle or Victor than anyone else), but that the one acting like that is Clementine. Without anything concretely established to back it up, it just doesn't gel that well with who she is/was. And even then, it's still kinda off.
The difference between Clem and those other bandits and even Javier is that she had no intention of killing Javier...nor was she just stealing everything. She needed a vehicle to get back to New Richmond...the vehicle she attacked was a NF vehicle. I do not think she gives a damn about those folk as that vehicle is used to dump walkers into towns...when she was taking Javi's stuff she gives the candy bar back. I would say she was not going to leave him or his family at the junkyard...she would more than likely take them to Prescott or New Richmond. Those other bandits would have killed Javi. Clementine killing Eli was an accident...yet he did deserve to die because he knew that ammo was defective...it makes me wonder who else he has scammed and what happened to them?
But hey...that's just my opinion.
Okay. An opinion is a belief or judgment of something that isn't necessarily based on fact. An opinion is something along the lines of "pizza is delicious" or "chocolate ice cream is the best ice cream flavor." Neither of which can be proven right or wrong by fact or deductive reasoning. They're just personal preferences.
The stuff you just mentioned are not opinions. They're uninformed statements or facts that you got wrong. Each can be proven wrong easily. There's actual scientific evidence of the earth being round, gravity being a force that draws physical objects to the center of the earth or any other object containing mass , and that eating dog shit can give you a variety of diseases like Tetanus, Hepatitis, pneumonia, etc.
Someone enjoying ANF does not make them wrong or stupid just because you personally can't stand it. It's just a personal preference. You can cry "taste is subjective but quality isn't" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that people can still see something in it that you don't. Maybe they noticed something about Clementine's character that you didn't. That doesn't make you or them wrong. What may be shit to you may be gold to someone else and there's nothing wrong or insulting about that.
True. This is possible.
And this right here is the primary problem with season 3 "Clementine". If it was a completely new character that was acting this way, then it wouldn't be a problem. But because this character is supposed to be Clementine, it ruins her.
You have a point, but mine was that the pedestal people put her on isn't even that revelant anymore because she's lost much of what made her special in the first place in favor of acting like a more sympathetic young clone of Jane. I didn't even mind some things like her talking while eating in part because it came off as "Haha, she still likes apples" but when I see her reinforce her deal with Javier in the middle of his reunion like a merc or quickly respond from killing a guy by telling Javier to cover for her, I get concerned.
Also, I doubt Michelle would've up and killed Javier, hence why I singled her out as a more apt comparison.
And yet...she like Clem accidently killed someone, Michelle did so while robbing an 11 year old who had done nothing to her...Eli it can be argued tried to get her killed.
Not sure what you're trying to get at there. Not so different?
Michele had no problem robbing a 11 year old...that action ended up killing a man...in Clem's case..the one who died tried to get her killed through knowingly selling bad bullets...then he pulled a knife and made her even more angry at him. In this case..the man dying was not entirely her fault and he did attack Javi..so she was right to say that.
Well, 9, but whatever. Omid and Michelle were unfortunately screwed over by a closing door--how sad.
You know, when you put it like that, it doesn't sound as bad. I guess it's just some apprehension with the fact that she killed him the way she did making it worse.
And yet that doesn't stop certain people from believing that the earth is flat, nor does it make it impossible for anyone to believe any of the other stuff I mentioned. People can and will believe what they want, even if what they believe is factually incorrect, and it's been proven to them that it's factually incorrect. Just as people can believe that the earth is flat, people can believe season 3 is a good game. I dislike season 3 because it's a bad game. The people who like it, like it despite the fact that it's a bad game.
If Lee were alive still...she would not have done that...but I maintain being on her own( and this is even mentioned in the game) has hurt her people skills...being on her own every day is life and death day...so when she is confronted with treachery..she reacted like she was out facing walkers and bandits...she needs a group to help her maintain the moral compass.
Well, that's not depressing at all. Especially considering it's me.
I'm going to assume Telltale told him "yeah Clementine will show up in S3" and he just offhandedly mentioned it in that interview
I doubt even he knew the extent of her involvement outside of the fact that she's in it in some capacity
Fuck this line of thinking
This is a line of thinking that, if it were a person, should have been taken into a back alley and shot
Such arrogance.
I think you worded it badly here. I think what you ment to say is that it's wrong to state facts as your opinion which I agree with, but @ralo229 didn't really do that. What he ment is that some people might like Clem the way she were, because maybe that was their Clem or their idea of how she will develop further on and it's wrong to just insult people because of that. It's just better to try and explain in a better way about what's wrong with Clem's character development other than "it's bad and unexplainable".
Also, you will never change people's opinions if you will call them stupid and then expecting people to change their opinion based on what you said.
Well since you didn't watch the video, I'll just repeat what I said in it. Unless you raised Clementine to be like Jane, I don't see how you can be happy with how she turned out in this game. Clementine turning out the way she does in this game makes no sense because nobody influenced her to be that way. It wasn't Lee, it wasn't Kenny, and it wasn't Jane either. And it doesn't make sense for alone Clementine because in that case there was nobody to influence her. A lot of people will give reasons that are never stated in-game to justify the change, but the problem with that is that it invalidates all our choices regarding Clementine, and it doesn't justify her change because you don't need to be an asshole to survive the zombie apocalypse. Plenty of other competent survivors didn't have to be edgy dicks just to survive, such as: Lee, Carley, Christa, and Jesus. Making Clementine the way she is in this season is nothing but pure fan pandering. I get that calling the fanbase a lowest common denominator audience is "insulting", but why take issue with it unless you're part of that demographic?
I don't know what to tell you. Some people understand certain things better than others and I happen to understand TWD and Clementine better than most people here. You might not like it, and it might make me sound arrogant, but it is true.
You mean none of the people she watched die, leaving her at best alone or at worst alone with a baby to take care of before she's even 14, influenced her to be an emotionally damaged and distrusting person? For someone who claims to have such an intricate understanding of a character, human psychological development, and creating a narrative, you really lack an understanding of all of those things.
Yes, the guy who didn't survive that you controlled in the first season, and could make execute two defeated men two episodes before leading an expedition to rob a community they thought was still around couldn't be an asshole. And Carley, Lillys favorite person to look to when there was an issue in the group before she didn't survive, was an angel. Christa, she was just prime example of a loving and compassionate person to everyone around her before she got captured 7 episodes ago and was never seen or heard from again. And then there's our buddy Jesus, who's literally been in the game for less than half an episode because he's popular in another format of the universe and not involved in any of the previous events. You're the master of sound arguments, your understanding of the narrative is matched only by your understanding the concepts of what an opinion and what an objectively disprovable argument based on scientific facts and evidence are. Thank you for enlightening the lowest common denominator with your vast array of knowledge and wisdom.