Have you read much of this thread, I would classify a lot of it as "crapping all over"
I have the second post in this thread.
I see a lot of people who love CMI post, and a lot who whine about continuity in EMI. (Kind of funny really.) It obviously hasn't been much of a deterrent to fans of the game.
Personally, I think the MI series should be unrelated, considering how it's turned into. They should just give up on the whole "canon" thing, and not have a timeline for the events at all. Just have them all as individual stories, unrelated to eachother, kind of like Zelda (yeah, I know there's a timeline, but it's more about the mythology of Link, Zelda and Ganon).
Actually, Miyamoto just officially announced recently that there is no timeline (a contradiction to his earlier remarks about the subject, but there you have it).
The other thing I don't get - and it's not "just a game, you should relax" - is why people have expectations that the Ron Gilbert sequel...
A: Was really planned - he didn't make it up years later after things didn't work out with Cavedog entertainment (people act most of the time like Ron was screwed out of making his sequel, but that's anything but what happened)
B: Will have a super tight fit continuity that explains EVERYTHING. This almost never happens in any medium. A lot of the counterpoints people bring up with probably would be explained away or ignored, to fit whatever mold. It's already pretty confusing for anyone who wants to deny the curse theory - is he a kid or isn't (if not how do I explain the anarchronisms and references to Disney Land)
I actually don't think either of these, I just honestly think that whatever Ron Gilbert would have come up with would have flowed more organically out of the Monkey 2 ending. Monkey 3 felt like it was going through a rather convoluted mess to explain it away rather than working from it, and that just feels like really bad storytelling to me.
It'll be his first game in forever and we'll see if he still can hack it. Several authors "lose it" over the years. MI2 came out in 1991.
I'm certainly eager to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, or at least a fair shake.
If it were all the "kid in a theme park" crap, what would the 3rd game have been? Guybrush and "Chuckie" having a slap fight in the backseat of their parents' car on the way home from the theme park?
Considering that a plain acceptance of the revelation at the end of the last game shows the events of the first two games of the series were Guybrush and Chuckie having a slap fight, why not?
There wouldn't have ever been a third game if the entire premise was "kid in a theme park."
I'd hardly say that would be the case. There are a lot of things you can say that flow from and grow from the original ending, rather than saying "Oh, um, uh, it doesn't matter because, um, MAGIC."
I don't care if Guybrush's actions "matter", because they were FUN TO DO. He's a character in an adventure game, his actions NEVER "mattered". What I don't like is shocking, amazing plot twists being explained away and ignored.
I don't buy the kid in a theme park explanation because MI2 itself didn't fully accept it. I mean come on. When they walked away Chuckie's eyes glowed with electricity and he laughed at the screen. Then half-way through the credits Elaine is left standing at the hole and says "Gee, I hope Guybrush is ok. I hope LeChuck didn't put a spell on him or anything!" So if it was a series closer it was one of the worst executed in history.
I've honestly always seen that as either the dying embers of the kid's imagination, or a hint that the Monkey Island world is a bit more real than the ending originally lets on. I think people are WAY to eager to simply throw out the whole deal altogether.
I think the game is much more engrossing as Guybrush is an actual wannabe pirate in the carribean than some kid's fantasy persona. Sort of like the plot of MGS2. What a damn travesty.
It seemed obvious to me that Ron would have continued the series with Guybrush breaking the Curse and figuring out which world is real and which isn't. At least that is what I was expecting from the ending. Curse sort of ignored all that and went a separate route and tried to retcon the whole thing, which given the spirit of the game, I am totally fine with, I think the life and times of Guybrush are very fun given the explanation in CMI. I, like many others, wish we could one day know where Ron was going with it, but we won't so let's just accept what we have got.
You know what, I'd laugh if Ron Gilbert came to these forums and just announced that there was no "Ron Gilbert's" Monkey Island 3 all along, he was just stringing fans along and Monkey Island 2 was just meant to be an open end to the series!
edit: Plus in an interview, didn't Ron say he's played through Curse and liked how they came up with a continueing story and style for the series?
Plus in an interview, didn't Ron say he's played through Curse and liked how they came up with a continueing story and style for the series?
How is that relevant? How does it matter? I suppose if you're against a person with a "Ron Gilbert is a narrative deity" model, but that's simply not the case. I can, without contradicting myself:
1) Not like the way Curse handled the ending of Revenge
2) Like Curse
3) Think that Ron Gilbert's approach would be better, and
4) Disagree with Ron Gilbert about the quality of the explanation in Curse.
That's a good point actually, that the MI world is more real than was let on. Maybe Guybrush and Chuckie ARE kids and they found a portal into the MI world instead of the other way around.
I don't consider the imagination-only explanation at all, though.
I can't find the interview at the moment but it was just brought up like:
"Have you played Monkey Island 4?"
"No I haven't had the chance yet"
*something gets mentioned and the interviewer reveals the ending of Monkey Island 4 is a fight between a Giant Stone LeChuck and Guybrush controlling a Giant Monkey Robot in a parody of Mortal Kombat called Monkey Kombat*
*Ron then lautghs it off and asks seriously what the ending was*
3) Think that Ron Gilbert's approach would be better
I'm not sure about that, considering nobody knows exactly what Ron Gilbert's approach would be, or if he even really has an idea in his head for MI3. That said, I would like a Monkey Island 3 made by Ron Gilbert, but just as an aside. So not 'canon'.
I can't find the interview at the moment but it was just brought up like:
"Have you played Monkey Island 4?"
"No I haven't had the chance yet"
*something gets mentioned and the interviewer reveals the ending of Monkey Island 4 is a fight between a Giant Stone LeChuck and Guybrush controlling a Giant Monkey Robot in a parody of Mortal Kombat called Monkey Kombat*
*Ron then lautghs it off and asks seriously what the ending was*
thats like a sitcon moment with the alkwed silence after he waskes what it realy was
You know what, I'd laugh if Ron Gilbert came to these forums and just announced that there was no "Ron Gilbert's" Monkey Island 3 all along, he was just stringing fans along and Monkey Island 2 was just meant to be an open end to the series!
Supposedly the theme park ending was originally considered for the end of Monkey Island 1, so there's a decent chance this would actually be true. It would've been a great point to end the series as well, leaving people with something to debate. Even though I've mostly enjoyed the later games, and am looking forward to the rest of Tales, I can't help thinking the series' transition into the infinitely milkable franchise it is today is a little sad, and kind of tainted what was once a perfect little self contained thing.
Supposedly the theme park ending was originally considered for the end of Monkey Island 1, so there's a decent chance this would actually be true. It would've been a great point to end the series as well, leaving people with something to debate. Even though I've mostly enjoyed the later games, and am looking forward to the rest of Tales, I can't help thinking the series' transition into the infinitely milkable franchise it is today is a little sad, and kind of tainted what was once a perfect little self contained thing.
That is really the heart of the debate:
Was the series meant to go on or have all of the last 3 games (CMI, EMI and Tales) all been unintended continuation of a series that should be finished.
Some of us would rather accept the former explanation so that the series can go on without us all feeling like exploitable chumps.
I don't see how if we enjoy a product designed to milk money for something we're being exploited.
From princeton dictionary:
developed or used to greatest advantage;
of persons; taken advantage of;
As fans of the series LucasArts would be making new games on a franchise that was never meant to continue to take advantage of our love of it, to take money from us. I mean, I will gladly be exploited for more monkey island goodness, but let's call a spade a spade here.
It would be like making a sequel to Scarface by saying that he actually survived somehow, or by making his son take over the business.
Something that isn't written with the spirit and intent of the original creation, but in the boardrooms of a corporation in order to mine us all for gold.
Which, like I said, I am A-OK with.
It would be like making a sequel to Scarface by saying that he actually survived somehow,
Like the Video Game which completely changes the last scene of the film to have Tony turn around and shoot the guy before he shoots him, and then having Tony arrested and released to re-build his business.
Like the Video Game which completely changes the last scene of the film to have Tony turn around and shoot the guy before he shoots him, and then having Tony arrested and released to re-build his business.
...that was a shitty story.
Haha, I forgot to link that in the original post, yep exactly what I was talking about.
Ron has said in interviews the amusement park didn't play any real role in his idea for MI 3. Big Whoop wasn't supposed to be important... that's why he named it "Big Whoop"
They are archived at the scummbar or world of monkey island or one of those sites.
Anyone got copies of old Lucasfilm Games Adventurer newsletters? I'm pretty sure that when the Secret of Monkey Island came out, Ron Gilbert did an interview with them and when asked about the anachronisms in the game (i.e. the vending machine at Stan's), he states that they're related to the true Secret of Monkey Island.
Make what you will of this comment... I always thought that it lent credence to the Guybrush-is-a-kid-and-it's-all-in-his-imagination theory.
I don't buy the kid in a theme park explanation because MI2 itself didn't fully accept it. I mean come on. When they walked away Chuckie's eyes glowed with electricity and he laughed at the screen. Then half-way through the credits Elaine is left standing at the hole and says "Gee, I hope Guybrush is ok. I hope LeChuck didn't put a spell on him or anything!" So if it was a series closer it was one of the worst executed in history.
This to me explains that CMI didn't have to reach too far to "explain away" the MI2 ending. It was mentioned in MI2 itself! But I still don't think that CMI's explanation is the best one....seems rather silly and clunky. Then again it kind of adds to CMI's whole atmosphere. A sense of over-monologue and master plan speeches that kind of makes it look like a satire. Which works. But I definitely wouldn't buy the "kid in a theme park" explanation. Even if CMI was never made.
I completely concur with you. I believe Bill Tyler had no idea on the ending of Monkey Island 2. Even though if he had that idea, why then not continue under the idea a "a kid's imagination in the carnival of big whoop?" You know its comments like him that add to the confusion of what the hell was the intention of Gilbert. But i completely 100% agree with you.
There is Secret of Monkey Island 1 & Secret of Monkey Island 2. That is the original work and is self contained.
Then there is [Noun] [Preposition] Monkey Island series that was started in the late 90s. Guybrush looks and acts differently, but still has his distinct charm and was borne from our rabid lust for the original series.
They are separate and equally respectable entities and should be treated as such, trying to connect the two only creates drama, I consider CMI's attempt to retcon things to be homage purely.
It may not be reality, but it is good enough for me.
There is Secret of Monkey Island 1 & Secret of Monkey Island 2. That is the original work and is self contained.
Then there is [Noun] [Preposition] Monkey Island series that was started in the late 90s. Guybrush looks and acts differently, but still has his distinct charm and was borne from our rabid lust for the original series.
They are separate and equally respectable entities and should be treated as such, trying to connect the two only creates drama, I consider CMI's attempt to retcon things to be homage purely.
It may not be reality, but it is good enough for me.
Same here. Personally I wish they'd either just rebooted the series entirely with MI3, or come up with a way of continuing without completely wiping out every trace of mystery from the ending of MI2. The solution they came up with basically hangs together, but frankly it's a dull explanation that panders to those dull people who apparently like everything nice and straightforward and spoon fed to them.
Newsflash: Monkey Island games are comedies. Please stop taking the plot so seriously.
At this rate, we'll soon be arguing the continuity of Simpsons episodes, and whether or not Naked Gun 33 1/3 made sense as a sequel to Naked Gun 2 1/2...
Actually, as far as Monkey Island goes, the plot was always pretty serious while everything else was comedic. But regardless, I don't think anybody is getting too worked up. Just discussing.
Actually, as far as Monkey Island goes, the plot was always pretty serious while everything else was comedic. But regardless, I don't think anybody is getting too worked up. Just discussing.
The plot was serious? Hero has a dream of being a pirate, meets girl, girl gets kidnapped, he goes to find her, he shows up just in time to kill Lechuck, then he unwittingly helps resurrect Lechuck while searching for some treasure, Lechuck proceeds to try to kill him, he narrowly escapes and again defeats Lechuck, then a twist ending with absolutely no explanation. That's just a big pile of cliches, and those are just the games that psychotics consider "real" Monkey Island games.
Plots in comedies only exist to facilitate the comedy.
It's not so much that Monkey Island is a serious epic per se, but the story should have that kind of atmosphere and the story shouldn't be jarring.
I don't take the "It's a funny show, story don't matter" explanation. Just look at all the opinions about the LeChuck's Revenge ending. If people weren't sucked in to the atmosphere and world of the games, they wouldn't care what happened to it. But they do.
THere's something more "adventure epic" about Monkey Island than a flat-out slapstick comedy, and if you're going to make a story it should work organically. It doesn't have to be serious, but the story had up to that point at least pretended to have cohesion, so the third game should have flowed more naturally from the second.
The explanation doesn't have to be godly. It just has to make sense and not feel like a cop-out, and I always felt the Curse attempt failed.
Am I the only one who thinks "kid in a theme park" would be the lamest and most idiotic thing to ever happen in gaming history if that were the "true" explanation?
(PS Curse's explanation is the true explanation as far as I'm concerned)
The plot was serious? Hero has a dream of being a pirate, meets girl, girl gets kidnapped, he goes to find her, he shows up just in time to kill Lechuck, then he unwittingly helps resurrect Lechuck while searching for some treasure, Lechuck proceeds to try to kill him, he narrowly escapes and again defeats Lechuck, then a twist ending with absolutely no explanation. That's just a big pile of cliches, and those are just the games that psychotics consider "real" Monkey Island games.
Plots in comedies only exist to facilitate the comedy.
I don't see how the use of clichés alone, however generous, prevents a story from being serious. Look at The Princess Bride (film version) -- clichés out the wazoo and very, very funny. But it doesn't do the movie justice to leave its notable traits at that when the central romance and Inigo's subplot (among other things) have very real weight to them. The Monkey Island games are much lighter on their feet, yes, but there's something about the world-building -- its ability to immerse the player no matter how haphazard it gets -- as well as the storytelling which has created an impression of epic scope among a lot of fans. I tend to think that impression has some merit to it.
We all know we're not talking about Wagner's Ring Cycle here. I'll start worrying about folks "taking it too seriously" when they tattoo "Team Gilbert" or "Team Telltale" on their chests and facilitate shouting matches at conventions while the "Team Schafer" people watch smugly from the sidelines, waiting for the other teams to kill each other off.
Anyone got copies of old Lucasfilm Games Adventurer newsletters? I'm pretty sure that when the Secret of Monkey Island came out, Ron Gilbert did an interview with them and when asked about the anachronisms in the game (i.e. the vending machine at Stan's), he states that they're related to the true Secret of Monkey Island.
Make what you will of this comment... I always thought that it lent credence to the Guybrush-is-a-kid-and-it's-all-in-his-imagination theory.
I typed this from the Adventurer: Volume 1, Number 1. You mention doing some reading, Why?
I read a lot of novels and reference books, more for the flavor of the period than for accuracy. This isn't a historically accurate game. In fact you'll see when you play that there are a lot of anachronisms, like the vending machine at Stan's used ship yard. They're there to add humor to the game, of course, but they also have a secret, deeper relevance to the story - but I'm keeping that secret for the sequel.
Newsflash: Monkey Island games are comedies. Please stop taking the plot so seriously.
At this rate, we'll soon be arguing the continuity of Simpsons episodes, and whether or not Naked Gun 33 1/3 made sense as a sequel to Naked Gun 2 1/2...
I play games for story or multiplayer, in the rare case they have both (Halo 2 or FFXI, for instance, my opinion, let's not talk about those games any more.)
I like for a story to be relevant, coherent and well-written. The last of those being most important. I think Guybrush's aloof attitude is most relevant to me as a symbol of how to approach problems without taking them too seriously and find serious answers. A sort of reminder that it is always possible to try too hard. The same reason I love the Blues Brothers. If you wanna talk plot holes and errors and everything else, that movie had them all over, but the message was good. Sometimes its just about the music.
I feel the same way about Monkey Island.
Sometimes its just about the Arrrrr.
I typed this from the Adventurer: Volume 1, Number 1. You mention doing some reading, Why?
I read a lot of novels and reference books, more for the flavor of the period than for accuracy. This isn't a historically accurate game. In fact you'll see when you play that there are a lot of anachronisms, like the vending machine at Stan's used ship yard. They're there to add humor to the game, of course, but they also have a secret, deeper relevance to the story - but I'm keeping that secret for the sequel.
Nice find! I'm glad someone here has a spare copy of back issues of the Adventurer around!
This sounds more like he's referring to the ending of the second game, rather than the (way over-hyped) Secret of Monkey Island(TM).
You know I just glanced over at Ron Gilbert's blog again, and I noticed his Deathspank interview a little ways down.
18. Where do you go after DeathSpank?
The overarching story in DeathSpank is more than one game, so I hope to finish the sequels in fairly quick succession. I don't want to have another Money Island 3 situation. At the end of the DeathSpank saga all will be explained.
I don't think it's too far a stretch to say that the people who worked on Curse pretty much sliced off his intended story.
He also was asked directly about the leading theories about Big Whoop (portal to another dimension, the ending of MI 2, etc.) and he said something like "one of those is closer than the others...but not that much."
So I'm personally left with two possible explanations:
A) He was really just stringing it along. He hadn't thought of it yet, maybe he likes one of those explanations better but not enough to commit to it.
He really did have some interesting explanation that no one thought of yet.
I wonder if we'll ever really know...but we do know that CMI was NOT what he had in mind...
Since Ron Gilbert was working with Telltale, will the secret be revealed in one of the episodic games?
I used to think the Secret of Monkey island was that its volcano was the secret home of a ghost pirate galleon and its undead pirate crew.
If Ron Gilbert had something else in mind for the story write it down and publish it as a book!!!!
I still handle CMI as the genuine last part in a trilogy, EMI is just a try-out for Tales, and Tales.. well... Tales is Tales.
The story fits good enough, the game is fun and the locations are MI worthy.
If Gilberts story was better than this one, why doesn't he just state it somewhere... I'm sure most of the fans (if not ALL) would love to hear/read/see it...
open message to Mister Gilbert: PLEEEAAAAASE, GIVE US YOUR "ORIGINAL" TAKE OM MI3
I'm sure that Ron Gilbert is too professional to spill the secret of his originally intended conclusion. Nothing good would come of it. Either it would be a colossal disappointment or it would be wonderful and thereby serve to undermine the work of those who have - and continue to - extend the franchise by means of new games.
I'm sure that Ron Gilbert is too professional to spill the secret of his originally intended conclusion. Nothing good would come of it. Either it would be a colossal disappointment or it would be wonderful and thereby serve to undermine the work of those who have - and continue to - extend the franchise by means of new games.
Yeah. I've always thought that the only ways he would reveal the Original MI3 Plan and the One True Secret would be if he were to either be the head of the Original MI3 devteam or if it were revealed after his death. And since the release of Original MI3 would undermine any further Non-Original Plan Universe (i.e. the one MI 3, 4 and Tales take place in) Monkey Island games, Original MI3 would probably have to be The Last Monkey Island Game Ever.
I'd be okay with it. Riiiight after Telltale stops wanting to make Monkey Island seasons.
I still think it is possible, given my explaination of how I view the series, that he could at some point in time still make "Secret of Monkey Island 3" and have that trilogy unto itself. Then you still have CMI, just stop calling it MI3 and use all that weirdo techno-voodoo babble as how it is connected to the original trilogy and let it continue to exist as its own thing.
Will that ever happen? No
Is it possible for Ron to make his intended game without undermining everyone else's work? I think so.
Comments
I see a lot of people who love CMI post, and a lot who whine about continuity in EMI. (Kind of funny really.) It obviously hasn't been much of a deterrent to fans of the game.
Actually, Miyamoto just officially announced recently that there is no timeline (a contradiction to his earlier remarks about the subject, but there you have it).
I'm certainly eager to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, or at least a fair shake.
Considering that a plain acceptance of the revelation at the end of the last game shows the events of the first two games of the series were Guybrush and Chuckie having a slap fight, why not?
I'd hardly say that would be the case. There are a lot of things you can say that flow from and grow from the original ending, rather than saying "Oh, um, uh, it doesn't matter because, um, MAGIC."
I don't care if Guybrush's actions "matter", because they were FUN TO DO. He's a character in an adventure game, his actions NEVER "mattered". What I don't like is shocking, amazing plot twists being explained away and ignored.
I've honestly always seen that as either the dying embers of the kid's imagination, or a hint that the Monkey Island world is a bit more real than the ending originally lets on. I think people are WAY to eager to simply throw out the whole deal altogether.
It seemed obvious to me that Ron would have continued the series with Guybrush breaking the Curse and figuring out which world is real and which isn't. At least that is what I was expecting from the ending. Curse sort of ignored all that and went a separate route and tried to retcon the whole thing, which given the spirit of the game, I am totally fine with, I think the life and times of Guybrush are very fun given the explanation in CMI. I, like many others, wish we could one day know where Ron was going with it, but we won't so let's just accept what we have got.
edit: Plus in an interview, didn't Ron say he's played through Curse and liked how they came up with a continueing story and style for the series?
1) Not like the way Curse handled the ending of Revenge
2) Like Curse
3) Think that Ron Gilbert's approach would be better, and
4) Disagree with Ron Gilbert about the quality of the explanation in Curse.
I don't consider the imagination-only explanation at all, though.
I can't find the interview at the moment but it was just brought up like:
"Have you played Monkey Island 4?"
"No I haven't had the chance yet"
*something gets mentioned and the interviewer reveals the ending of Monkey Island 4 is a fight between a Giant Stone LeChuck and Guybrush controlling a Giant Monkey Robot in a parody of Mortal Kombat called Monkey Kombat*
*Ron then lautghs it off and asks seriously what the ending was*
thats like a sitcon moment with the alkwed silence after he waskes what it realy was
Supposedly the theme park ending was originally considered for the end of Monkey Island 1, so there's a decent chance this would actually be true. It would've been a great point to end the series as well, leaving people with something to debate. Even though I've mostly enjoyed the later games, and am looking forward to the rest of Tales, I can't help thinking the series' transition into the infinitely milkable franchise it is today is a little sad, and kind of tainted what was once a perfect little self contained thing.
That is really the heart of the debate:
Was the series meant to go on or have all of the last 3 games (CMI, EMI and Tales) all been unintended continuation of a series that should be finished.
Some of us would rather accept the former explanation so that the series can go on without us all feeling like exploitable chumps.
From princeton dictionary:
As fans of the series LucasArts would be making new games on a franchise that was never meant to continue to take advantage of our love of it, to take money from us. I mean, I will gladly be exploited for more monkey island goodness, but let's call a spade a spade here.
It would be like making a sequel to Scarface by saying that he actually survived somehow, or by making his son take over the business.
Something that isn't written with the spirit and intent of the original creation, but in the boardrooms of a corporation in order to mine us all for gold.
Which, like I said, I am A-OK with.
EDIT: Forgot a link =P
Like the Video Game which completely changes the last scene of the film to have Tony turn around and shoot the guy before he shoots him, and then having Tony arrested and released to re-build his business.
...that was a shitty story.
Haha, I forgot to link that in the original post, yep exactly what I was talking about.
They are archived at the scummbar or world of monkey island or one of those sites.
& here I was thinking that only the threads that I start have this much 'tude on display.
Make what you will of this comment... I always thought that it lent credence to the Guybrush-is-a-kid-and-it's-all-in-his-imagination theory.
I completely concur with you. I believe Bill Tyler had no idea on the ending of Monkey Island 2. Even though if he had that idea, why then not continue under the idea a "a kid's imagination in the carnival of big whoop?" You know its comments like him that add to the confusion of what the hell was the intention of Gilbert. But i completely 100% agree with you.
There is Secret of Monkey Island 1 & Secret of Monkey Island 2. That is the original work and is self contained.
Then there is [Noun] [Preposition] Monkey Island series that was started in the late 90s. Guybrush looks and acts differently, but still has his distinct charm and was borne from our rabid lust for the original series.
They are separate and equally respectable entities and should be treated as such, trying to connect the two only creates drama, I consider CMI's attempt to retcon things to be homage purely.
It may not be reality, but it is good enough for me.
...ahem... sorry about that, it's been bothering me the whole time the thread has existed
Same here. Personally I wish they'd either just rebooted the series entirely with MI3, or come up with a way of continuing without completely wiping out every trace of mystery from the ending of MI2. The solution they came up with basically hangs together, but frankly it's a dull explanation that panders to those dull people who apparently like everything nice and straightforward and spoon fed to them.
At this rate, we'll soon be arguing the continuity of Simpsons episodes, and whether or not Naked Gun 33 1/3 made sense as a sequel to Naked Gun 2 1/2...
The plot was serious? Hero has a dream of being a pirate, meets girl, girl gets kidnapped, he goes to find her, he shows up just in time to kill Lechuck, then he unwittingly helps resurrect Lechuck while searching for some treasure, Lechuck proceeds to try to kill him, he narrowly escapes and again defeats Lechuck, then a twist ending with absolutely no explanation. That's just a big pile of cliches, and those are just the games that psychotics consider "real" Monkey Island games.
Plots in comedies only exist to facilitate the comedy.
I don't take the "It's a funny show, story don't matter" explanation. Just look at all the opinions about the LeChuck's Revenge ending. If people weren't sucked in to the atmosphere and world of the games, they wouldn't care what happened to it. But they do.
THere's something more "adventure epic" about Monkey Island than a flat-out slapstick comedy, and if you're going to make a story it should work organically. It doesn't have to be serious, but the story had up to that point at least pretended to have cohesion, so the third game should have flowed more naturally from the second.
The explanation doesn't have to be godly. It just has to make sense and not feel like a cop-out, and I always felt the Curse attempt failed.
Absolutely not! I agree with you 10000%!
I don't see how the use of clichés alone, however generous, prevents a story from being serious. Look at The Princess Bride (film version) -- clichés out the wazoo and very, very funny. But it doesn't do the movie justice to leave its notable traits at that when the central romance and Inigo's subplot (among other things) have very real weight to them. The Monkey Island games are much lighter on their feet, yes, but there's something about the world-building -- its ability to immerse the player no matter how haphazard it gets -- as well as the storytelling which has created an impression of epic scope among a lot of fans. I tend to think that impression has some merit to it.
We all know we're not talking about Wagner's Ring Cycle here. I'll start worrying about folks "taking it too seriously" when they tattoo "Team Gilbert" or "Team Telltale" on their chests and facilitate shouting matches at conventions while the "Team Schafer" people watch smugly from the sidelines, waiting for the other teams to kill each other off.
I typed this from the Adventurer: Volume 1, Number 1.
You mention doing some reading, Why?
I read a lot of novels and reference books, more for the flavor of the period than for accuracy. This isn't a historically accurate game. In fact you'll see when you play that there are a lot of anachronisms, like the vending machine at Stan's used ship yard. They're there to add humor to the game, of course, but they also have a secret, deeper relevance to the story - but I'm keeping that secret for the sequel.
I play games for story or multiplayer, in the rare case they have both (Halo 2 or FFXI, for instance, my opinion, let's not talk about those games any more.)
I like for a story to be relevant, coherent and well-written. The last of those being most important. I think Guybrush's aloof attitude is most relevant to me as a symbol of how to approach problems without taking them too seriously and find serious answers. A sort of reminder that it is always possible to try too hard. The same reason I love the Blues Brothers. If you wanna talk plot holes and errors and everything else, that movie had them all over, but the message was good. Sometimes its just about the music.
I feel the same way about Monkey Island.
Sometimes its just about the Arrrrr.
Nice find! I'm glad someone here has a spare copy of back issues of the Adventurer around!
This sounds more like he's referring to the ending of the second game, rather than the (way over-hyped) Secret of Monkey Island(TM).
I don't think it's too far a stretch to say that the people who worked on Curse pretty much sliced off his intended story.
He also was asked directly about the leading theories about Big Whoop (portal to another dimension, the ending of MI 2, etc.) and he said something like "one of those is closer than the others...but not that much."
So I'm personally left with two possible explanations:
A) He was really just stringing it along. He hadn't thought of it yet, maybe he likes one of those explanations better but not enough to commit to it.
I wonder if we'll ever really know...but we do know that CMI was NOT what he had in mind...
Since Ron Gilbert was working with Telltale, will the secret be revealed in one of the episodic games?
I used to think the Secret of Monkey island was that its volcano was the secret home of a ghost pirate galleon and its undead pirate crew.
I still handle CMI as the genuine last part in a trilogy, EMI is just a try-out for Tales, and Tales.. well... Tales is Tales.
The story fits good enough, the game is fun and the locations are MI worthy.
If Gilberts story was better than this one, why doesn't he just state it somewhere... I'm sure most of the fans (if not ALL) would love to hear/read/see it...
open message to Mister Gilbert: PLEEEAAAAASE, GIVE US YOUR "ORIGINAL" TAKE OM MI3
Yeah. I've always thought that the only ways he would reveal the Original MI3 Plan and the One True Secret would be if he were to either be the head of the Original MI3 devteam or if it were revealed after his death. And since the release of Original MI3 would undermine any further Non-Original Plan Universe (i.e. the one MI 3, 4 and Tales take place in) Monkey Island games, Original MI3 would probably have to be The Last Monkey Island Game Ever.
I'd be okay with it. Riiiight after Telltale stops wanting to make Monkey Island seasons.
Will that ever happen? No
Is it possible for Ron to make his intended game without undermining everyone else's work? I think so.