I feel like many of you miss the point that Kate was in a abusive relationship with David and that she only stayed because the kids needed a mother figure, which was discussed in Ep. 4. Most abusive relationships the victim thinks that the abuser only hurt them because they do it out of love but Kate was not an idiot she knew exactly what her relationship became but stayed because the kids needed a figure to look up to who wasn't their abusive father. As someone who has been friends with a victim of abusive relationship, I absolutely am disgusted by David and applaud Kate's willingness to stay so the kids have a proper person to look up too.
Now let explain that before we realize that David was still alive we thought he was dead. We spent 4 years with basically the only adult female we know. Now imagine this, you believe that your abusive husband was dead and you have 2 kids to look out for in the apocalypse and your brother in law steps up to take care of you and your kids. Why wouldn't you start to fall for him? He was everything your ex husband wasn't: supportive, caring, a good example, understanding, selfless, and oh a big one NOT ABUSIVE.
Hell even we were in the front end of his abusive behaviour. He would lash out at you if things didn't go his way or things started to get tough. Who would want to be in that type of relationship?
Now the whole "she's abandoning her kids" bullshit. No she isn't; remember she got shot because she didn't want to leave Mari's body and wanted to give her a proper burial. She could have easily ran away when they were attacked by the zombies but she didn't she stayed and protected Gabe. And before you point out that we can leave Gabe behind, she generally thought that Gabe would be safe with his father and let him have his choice. She could easily have abandoned them but she didn't because generally cares about them, even if they aren't hers.
Yeah, but she did get abandoned for a long time while David was out having adventures. Hard for me to be critical of her when Javi has had her back all that time AND helps her find weed in the apocalypse.
If she doesn't want to be with him anymore, fair enough, but it was still pretty cold to try and leave him behind he's still Javi's brother and Gabe's Father.
Yeah, I stopped liking her after she kept making moves on Javi even after she found out her husband was alive. I mean, she couldn't even have the decency to tell him that she was leaving him? I'm just glad she isn't my problem anymore.
David having some kind of PTSD related military thing+Kate acting nervous to upset him=David is evil abuser who deserves his family swiped away from him for a 2nd time.
I'm just waiting for the day that making eye contact with a women is grounds for arrest.
Sadly this isn't a new thing, it was Lilly in s1, Sarah in s2, and now Kate. Lilly I can least understand disliking her for what she did to Carley/Doug, but Sarah and Kate didn't do anything wrong.
She's nervous because she's afraid of him and how he's going to react to certain things. Kenny for example has PTSD and did Sarita ever act that scared around him and want nothing to do with him no. There's the difference for you.
David having some kind of PTSD related military thing+Kate acting nervous to upset him=David is evil abuser who deserves his family swiped a… moreway from him for a 2nd time.
I'm just waiting for the day that making eye contact with a women is grounds for arrest.
Sarita asks Clementine about Kennys behavior. Met him post trauma of having lost his wife and kid on the same day. I would think people who survived years on the apoc would change mentally to brush certain things off considering the horrible circumstances.
"Kate acting nervous to upset him"
She's nervous because she's afraid of him and how he's going to react to certain things. Kenny for exa… moremple has PTSD and did Sarita ever act that scared around him and want nothing to do with him no. There's the difference for you.
Sarita asks Clementine about Kennys behavior. Met him post trauma of having lost his wife and kid on the same day. I would think people who … moresurvived years on the apoc would change mentally to brush certain things off considering the horrible circumstances.
I think the reason why there are those who see Kate in this light is because of the 'tell, don't show' rule being used. Besides the one instance of David and Kate's relationship in a flashback, we don't really see enough to understand why Kate appears to not like David and wants nothing to do with him.
There's also how the game is having Kate push for the JavierxKate relationship to happen until the player can finally make the decision for themselves in the penultimate episode, and it doesn't exactly make Kate look positive in this manner if she appeared to have feelings for Javier long before the apocalypse had started.
Sarita's reaction to another man in an entirely different situation with entirely different context doesn't prove David is a wife abuser. That makes absolutely no sense.
My point is David has anger issues and they cause Kate to be afraid of him. While Kenny's anger issues don't scare Sarita away.
So obviously David's behavior around Kate is a problem while Kenny's around Sarita wasn't.
David having some kind of PTSD related military thing+Kate acting nervous to upset him=David is evil abuser who deserves his family swiped a… moreway from him for a 2nd time.
I'm just waiting for the day that making eye contact with a women is grounds for arrest.
Kate has her issues, David was gone when he took his mom that was bitten in the face to the hospital .when Kate, Javier , Gabe and Mariana they were apost to wait for David's return in which he didn't show up, but prior to that before the apocalypse Kate shouldn't have have any feeling for Javier despite she was married to David not too mention she is also an attic that was the issue.
Right now she can't just leave David for the hangman's noose that's just wrong that's her (husband) and not having feelings is wrong in all but at least try and save David then you can talk and say you don't want to be with him anymore..
"That's it no questions asked".
It's better to save someone and say you don't want to be with them then just leave them for dead.
Kate has her issues, David was gone when he took his mom that was bitten in the face to the hospital .when Kate, Javier , Gabe and Maria… morena they were apost to wait for David's return in which he didn't show up, but prior to that before the apocalypse Kate shouldn't have have any feeling for Javier despite she was married to David not too mention she is also an attic that was the issue.
Right now she can't just leave David for the hangman's noose that's just wrong that's her (husband) and not having feelings is wrong in all but at least try and save David then you can talk and say you don't want to be with him anymore..
"That's it no questions asked".
It's better to save someone and say you don't want to be with them then just leave them for dead.
The constant shipteasing, for one thing. Though to be fair, it was never really that overt outside of Kate's flirting and that's because they were building up the scene in the truck. Thicker than Water though definitely started to get carried with it, as many characters had moments where they were just meant to facilitate a possible relationship with their opposite.
But primarily speaking, I'd definitely say that the biggest issue with this is the fact that this installment had a chance to have a number of memorable female characters in the roster--not to say that Season 2 didn't, mind you. And yet, with the exception of Clementine(for obvious reasons), Joan(though we do have an episode left) and Ava(and I'm sure there's someone who would argue otherwise), it feels like.most of them are being limited and/or outright held back due to their pending relationship taking priority over their actual worth as a character.
Let's start with Kate: From day one, she has been my 2nd favorite new character in part because, unlike most characters, she seemed to actually have a bit of complexity to her character: Her status as a leader, her marriage to her David, her chemistry with Javier, and her parental feelings for step-children Gabe and Mari gave her quite a bit of depth and potential for character development that went beyond what you see. From back then to fairly recently, her relationship with Javier never bothered me, as I enjoyed their banter and saw the budding attraction between them as a chance to delve into their mindsets as individuals. However, it seems I was in a minority because people constantly commented on how much they hate Kate, her flirting with Javier, or both. But that never really bothered me too much.
What did bother me was her screentime and role in Thicker than Water: while she definitely mellowed out a bit due to everything that's been going on, Kate has relatively little presence in the episode, only determinately coming to spring Javier herself, acknowledging Gabe's apparent crush on Clementine with approval, and having her relationship with Javier decided before crashing in an attempt to come to Javier, Clementine, and determinately Gabe, Tripp, and Conrad's rescue, being presumed dead due to an explosion her crash caused and charred walkers invading the city as a cliffhanger. I sincerely doubt she's actually dead given all the buildup around her character and the standards of previous Seasons, but with that said, the idea that this is how she supposedly dies--the very next scene after being requited/rejected by Javier--is insulting on numerous levels. As if her haters(not a knock against them--just saying) were right to just assume that she'll never be anything beside a trophy for Javier to take from David or at least get in a fight over.
Eleanor seemed like another example of a female character that could've been prominent, but is held back by shipping reasons--except far worse. At first, I rolled my eyes when I saw that half of the conversation around her was based around shipping, but still I made it known fairly early on that I was NOT a fan of the whole "She must be a traitor/spy" train of thought. I really didn't like how a lot of people devolve the situation with Lilly snapping and killing Carley into that whole "Two chicks can get with the same guy, so clearly one has to be bad." Something just feels...needlessly bitter and demonizing about that, not to mention sexist. Despite that unpleasant implication/fandumb, I always felt like Eleanor was the more interesting character between her and Tripp, as she actually had a bit of personality, a nice design and color scheme, and an undeniably important role without feeling too forced or rehash-y.
For one thing, I actually thought her joking towards Javier about how "it's always the pretty ones that cause trouble," how her and Tripp were a thing "for, like, five minutes," and how she's not really a nurse but rather the Closest Thing We Got gave her a little bit of an "edge," if you will(I know I will), without making her explicitly a slutty type and/or keeping her just the nice, wholesome nurse archetype. And her decision to argue with Tripp about helping Javier get to his family(in part because she can relate) and offer him to determinately sneak him and Clementine out overnight proved that she had good heart that meant she would disobey orders despite her somewhat softspoken demeanor in favor of doing what she feels is right(reminds me of someone or another, come to think of it ). I really wanted to see more of her and her potential interactions with Kate, Gabe, and the anti-heroic Clementine and determinately Conrad.
Which is one of the reasons why I grew increasingly weary of having her ex around being near the spotlight without really bringing much to the table and, ultimately, a reason why her "betrayal" really disappointed me. Not from betrayed, but rather from having this sexist, predictable, and frankly so late in the game revelation dropped during the final scenes of Thicker than Water. What makes this especially bad is that she had so little screentime that it honestly feels that much more tacked on and she really was just a background character that did important things but was treated as if she's the relatively flat love interest of "best friend," "major player," and "total bro" Tripp. But apparently, Clementine(who technically murdered a guy in her town in the scene beforehand, btw) had to be proven right about a character that did nothing but good up till that point and she deserves to see her ex be determinately executed for naively siding with Joan in the name of peace or whatever.
Oh and poor Gabe. Goddammit, why can't we just have a major boy character that isn't made out to be negative for once? Like, at first, it was just people predictably giving him a hard time for the expected reasons but his character definitely had potential and a important place in ANF's storyline going forward. And honestly, the whole Gabentine thing as a whole is something I was always neutral about--partially because I feel that way about Clementine getting a love interest at all, partially because I didn't really want what would hopefully be a nice change of pace from previous boy characters to be saddled with romantic baggage. However, despite finding him just a little boring in Part 1(which may have been the intention, admittedly), I held out hope that he could be a great and noteworthy character to give this installment some honor and significance that neither of the previous Seasons did. Hell, even the Gabentine thing seemed more like a Teen Titans(2003 show) type of deal that was really just an excuse to have some interesting character development between the two and a hook for his possible return in the future.
I won't go into great detail about him, but while I guess I can technically still say that I really enjoyed most of his presence and see him something of a positive, both Gabeintine and that dumb, pointless scene from Thicker than Water are holding him back and that pisses me off just a scosche.
It makes plenty of sense. They both have anger issues, but only one of them is shown to be abusive to the woman in their life.
I know they're fictional characters, but people doubt real women all the time when it comes to abuse.
Also I'm not just bringing up Sarita and Kenny randomly, their were people during s2 who thought Kenny was abusive to Sarita too and now we actually have a man who is abusive to a woman.
They're fictional characters.
Sarita's reaction to another man in an entirely different situation with entirely different context doesn't prove David is a wife abuser. That makes absolutely no sense.
"Hey let's run away together."
"Marriage is for life Javi!"
Yeah, make me look like the asshole. Have fun with your possibly abusive marriage.
Her trying to take David's family from him because she's unhappy with him is beyond shitty. You got yourself into this marraige, it's your own responsibility to dig yourself out of it.
You make a lot of valid points about Kate and Eleanor, and it is disappointing to realize how poorly they are treat this way. Gabe's role in this game doesn't do him any favors either, I can agree.
It just seems that the writers don't want to do much to develop the two without their own story arc focusing on being romantically involved with someone or the player character themselves. If Clementine can become a strong and well-liked character, then why can't Kate and Eleanor too? Why do both of them have to be either token girlfriends before one dies and the other turns traitor? Isn't this the year 2017? These cliches and stereotypes that are burdening Kate and Eleanor's characters have already gotten stale a long time ago.
It also says quite a lot about how this season handle female characters besides Clementine and Ava, because one of them is too young to date the player character and is already a beloved character in her own right, and the other one shows no interest in Javier or anyone else romantically at all and is actually developed more than characters such as Tripp. What's the harm in developing both Kate and Eleanor in this direction as well without bringing romance onto the table?
This also reminds me of a certain character in Dead Space 2 being ruined in the third game because of a forced love-triangle plot that almost nobody had appreciated. She was well received, likely because she wasn't written as an alternate love interest for the hero and was basically her own character.
The constant shipteasing, for one thing. Though to be fair, it was never really that overt outside of Kate's flirting and that's because the… morey were building up the scene in the truck. Thicker than Water though definitely started to get carried with it, as many characters had moments where they were just meant to facilitate a possible relationship with their opposite.
But primarily speaking, I'd definitely say that the biggest issue with this is the fact that this installment had a chance to have a number of memorable female characters in the roster--not to say that Season 2 didn't, mind you. And yet, with the exception of Clementine(for obvious reasons), Joan(though we do have an episode left) and Ava(and I'm sure there's someone who would argue otherwise), it feels like.most of them are being limited and/or outright held back due to their pending relationship taking priority over their actual worth as a character.
Let's start with Kate:… [view original content]
Kate has her issues, David was gone when he took his mom that was bitten in the face to the hospital .when Kate, Javier , Gabe and Maria… morena they were apost to wait for David's return in which he didn't show up, but prior to that before the apocalypse Kate shouldn't have have any feeling for Javier despite she was married to David not too mention she is also an attic that was the issue.
Right now she can't just leave David for the hangman's noose that's just wrong that's her (husband) and not having feelings is wrong in all but at least try and save David then you can talk and say you don't want to be with him anymore..
"That's it no questions asked".
It's better to save someone and say you don't want to be with them then just leave them for dead.
"Hey let's run away together."
"Marriage is for life Javi!"
Yeah, make me look like the asshole. Have fun with your possibly abusive marri… moreage.
Her trying to take David's family from him because she's unhappy with him is beyond shitty. You got yourself into this marraige, it's your own responsibility to dig yourself out of it.
Comments
I feel like many of you miss the point that Kate was in a abusive relationship with David and that she only stayed because the kids needed a mother figure, which was discussed in Ep. 4. Most abusive relationships the victim thinks that the abuser only hurt them because they do it out of love but Kate was not an idiot she knew exactly what her relationship became but stayed because the kids needed a figure to look up to who wasn't their abusive father. As someone who has been friends with a victim of abusive relationship, I absolutely am disgusted by David and applaud Kate's willingness to stay so the kids have a proper person to look up too.
Now let explain that before we realize that David was still alive we thought he was dead. We spent 4 years with basically the only adult female we know. Now imagine this, you believe that your abusive husband was dead and you have 2 kids to look out for in the apocalypse and your brother in law steps up to take care of you and your kids. Why wouldn't you start to fall for him? He was everything your ex husband wasn't: supportive, caring, a good example, understanding, selfless, and oh a big one NOT ABUSIVE.
Hell even we were in the front end of his abusive behaviour. He would lash out at you if things didn't go his way or things started to get tough. Who would want to be in that type of relationship?
Now the whole "she's abandoning her kids" bullshit. No she isn't; remember she got shot because she didn't want to leave Mari's body and wanted to give her a proper burial. She could have easily ran away when they were attacked by the zombies but she didn't she stayed and protected Gabe. And before you point out that we can leave Gabe behind, she generally thought that Gabe would be safe with his father and let him have his choice. She could easily have abandoned them but she didn't because generally cares about them, even if they aren't hers.
the kids aren't hers. But I thought this thread was gonna be about how she got into Lingarde's stash!
She's fucked up that's for sure....but I like this kind of fuckery in a women so I wouldn't mind a one night stand
Yeah, but she did get abandoned for a long time while David was out having adventures. Hard for me to be critical of her when Javi has had her back all that time AND helps her find weed in the apocalypse.
Notice how Jayroen and asshole have seven letters....it was meant to be....or it is just random luck.
Why do you think I got a Larry pic? That guy is my spirit animal!
Well played sir, well played.
If she doesn't want to be with him anymore, fair enough, but it was still pretty cold to try and leave him behind he's still Javi's brother and Gabe's Father.
So much misogyny here in this thread she was afraid of even washing the dishes in a way that won't get her husband mad, get a grip people
I feel like this Season is generally kinda sexist, to be honest.
Yeah, I stopped liking her after she kept making moves on Javi even after she found out her husband was alive. I mean, she couldn't even have the decency to tell him that she was leaving him? I'm just glad she isn't my problem anymore.
David having some kind of PTSD related military thing+Kate acting nervous to upset him=David is evil abuser who deserves his family swiped away from him for a 2nd time.
I'm just waiting for the day that making eye contact with a women is grounds for arrest.
Sadly this isn't a new thing, it was Lilly in s1, Sarah in s2, and now Kate. Lilly I can least understand disliking her for what she did to Carley/Doug, but Sarah and Kate didn't do anything wrong.
"Kate acting nervous to upset him"
She's nervous because she's afraid of him and how he's going to react to certain things. Kenny for example has PTSD and did Sarita ever act that scared around him and want nothing to do with him no. There's the difference for you.
Sarita asks Clementine about Kennys behavior. Met him post trauma of having lost his wife and kid on the same day. I would think people who survived years on the apoc would change mentally to brush certain things off considering the horrible circumstances.
My point is David has anger issues and they cause Kate to be afraid of him. While Kenny's anger issues don't scare Sarita away.
So obviously David's behavior around Kate is a problem while Kenny's around Sarita wasn't.
I think the reason why there are those who see Kate in this light is because of the 'tell, don't show' rule being used. Besides the one instance of David and Kate's relationship in a flashback, we don't really see enough to understand why Kate appears to not like David and wants nothing to do with him.
There's also how the game is having Kate push for the JavierxKate relationship to happen until the player can finally make the decision for themselves in the penultimate episode, and it doesn't exactly make Kate look positive in this manner if she appeared to have feelings for Javier long before the apocalypse had started.
They're fictional characters.
Sarita's reaction to another man in an entirely different situation with entirely different context doesn't prove David is a wife abuser. That makes absolutely no sense.
What makes you feel this way, if you don't mind me asking?
If you look at a woman with anger in your eyes, then it better be this way.
Kate has her issues, David was gone when he took his mom that was bitten in the face to the hospital .when Kate, Javier , Gabe and Mariana they were apost to wait for David's return in which he didn't show up, but prior to that before the apocalypse Kate shouldn't have have any feeling for Javier despite she was married to David not too mention she is also an attic that was the issue.
Right now she can't just leave David for the hangman's noose that's just wrong that's her (husband) and not having feelings is wrong in all but at least try and save David then you can talk and say you don't want to be with him anymore..
"That's it no questions asked".
It's better to save someone and say you don't want to be with them then just leave them for dead.
Agreed.
The constant shipteasing, for one thing. Though to be fair, it was never really that overt outside of Kate's flirting and that's because they were building up the scene in the truck. Thicker than Water though definitely started to get carried with it, as many characters had moments where they were just meant to facilitate a possible relationship with their opposite.
But primarily speaking, I'd definitely say that the biggest issue with this is the fact that this installment had a chance to have a number of memorable female characters in the roster--not to say that Season 2 didn't, mind you. And yet, with the exception of Clementine(for obvious reasons), Joan(though we do have an episode left) and Ava(and I'm sure there's someone who would argue otherwise), it feels like.most of them are being limited and/or outright held back due to their pending relationship taking priority over their actual worth as a character.
Let's start with Kate: From day one, she has been my 2nd favorite new character in part because, unlike most characters, she seemed to actually have a bit of complexity to her character: Her status as a leader, her marriage to her David, her chemistry with Javier, and her parental feelings for step-children Gabe and Mari gave her quite a bit of depth and potential for character development that went beyond what you see. From back then to fairly recently, her relationship with Javier never bothered me, as I enjoyed their banter and saw the budding attraction between them as a chance to delve into their mindsets as individuals. However, it seems I was in a minority because people constantly commented on how much they hate Kate, her flirting with Javier, or both. But that never really bothered me too much.
What did bother me was her screentime and role in Thicker than Water: while she definitely mellowed out a bit due to everything that's been going on, Kate has relatively little presence in the episode, only determinately coming to spring Javier herself, acknowledging Gabe's apparent crush on Clementine with approval, and having her relationship with Javier decided before crashing in an attempt to come to Javier, Clementine, and determinately Gabe, Tripp, and Conrad's rescue, being presumed dead due to an explosion her crash caused and charred walkers invading the city as a cliffhanger. I sincerely doubt she's actually dead given all the buildup around her character and the standards of previous Seasons, but with that said, the idea that this is how she supposedly dies--the very next scene after being requited/rejected by Javier--is insulting on numerous levels. As if her haters(not a knock against them--just saying) were right to just assume that she'll never be anything beside a trophy for Javier to take from David or at least get in a fight over.
Eleanor seemed like another example of a female character that could've been prominent, but is held back by shipping reasons--except far worse. At first, I rolled my eyes when I saw that half of the conversation around her was based around shipping, but still I made it known fairly early on that I was NOT a fan of the whole "She must be a traitor/spy" train of thought. I really didn't like how a lot of people devolve the situation with Lilly snapping and killing Carley into that whole "Two chicks can get with the same guy, so clearly one has to be bad." Something just feels...needlessly bitter and demonizing about that, not to mention sexist. Despite that unpleasant implication/fandumb, I always felt like Eleanor was the more interesting character between her and Tripp, as she actually had a bit of personality, a nice design and color scheme, and an undeniably important role without feeling too forced or rehash-y.
For one thing, I actually thought her joking towards Javier about how "it's always the pretty ones that cause trouble," how her and Tripp were a thing "for, like, five minutes," and how she's not really a nurse but rather the Closest Thing We Got gave her a little bit of an "edge," if you will(I know I will), without making her explicitly a slutty type and/or keeping her just the nice, wholesome nurse archetype. And her decision to argue with Tripp about helping Javier get to his family(in part because she can relate) and offer him to determinately sneak him and Clementine out overnight proved that she had good heart that meant she would disobey orders despite her somewhat softspoken demeanor in favor of doing what she feels is right(reminds me of someone or another, come to think of it
). I really wanted to see more of her and her potential interactions with Kate, Gabe, and the anti-heroic Clementine and determinately Conrad.
Which is one of the reasons why I grew increasingly weary of having her ex around being near the spotlight without really bringing much to the table and, ultimately, a reason why her "betrayal" really disappointed me. Not from betrayed, but rather from having this sexist, predictable, and frankly so late in the game revelation dropped during the final scenes of Thicker than Water. What makes this especially bad is that she had so little screentime that it honestly feels that much more tacked on and she really was just a background character that did important things but was treated as if she's the relatively flat love interest of "best friend," "major player," and "total bro" Tripp. But apparently, Clementine(who technically murdered a guy in her town in the scene beforehand, btw) had to be proven right about a character that did nothing but good up till that point and she deserves to see her ex be determinately executed for naively siding with Joan in the name of peace or whatever.
Oh and poor Gabe. Goddammit, why can't we just have a major boy character that isn't made out to be negative for once? Like, at first, it was just people predictably giving him a hard time for the expected reasons but his character definitely had potential and a important place in ANF's storyline going forward. And honestly, the whole Gabentine thing as a whole is something I was always neutral about--partially because I feel that way about Clementine getting a love interest at all, partially because I didn't really want what would hopefully be a nice change of pace from previous boy characters to be saddled with romantic baggage. However, despite finding him just a little boring in Part 1(which may have been the intention, admittedly), I held out hope that he could be a great and noteworthy character to give this installment some honor and significance that neither of the previous Seasons did. Hell, even the Gabentine thing seemed more like a Teen Titans(2003 show) type of deal that was really just an excuse to have some interesting character development between the two and a hook for his possible return in the future.
I won't go into great detail about him, but while I guess I can technically still say that I really enjoyed most of his presence and see him something of a positive, both Gabeintine and that dumb, pointless scene from Thicker than Water are holding him back and that pisses me off just a scosche.
It makes plenty of sense. They both have anger issues, but only one of them is shown to be abusive to the woman in their life.
I know they're fictional characters, but people doubt real women all the time when it comes to abuse.
Also I'm not just bringing up Sarita and Kenny randomly, their were people during s2 who thought Kenny was abusive to Sarita too and now we actually have a man who is abusive to a woman.
"Hey let's run away together."
"Marriage is for life Javi!"
Yeah, make me look like the asshole. Have fun with your possibly abusive marriage.
Her trying to take David's family from him because she's unhappy with him is beyond shitty. You got yourself into this marraige, it's your own responsibility to dig yourself out of it.
So looking at a woman with anger is grounds for being arrested. Nice.
You make a lot of valid points about Kate and Eleanor, and it is disappointing to realize how poorly they are treat this way. Gabe's role in this game doesn't do him any favors either, I can agree.
It just seems that the writers don't want to do much to develop the two without their own story arc focusing on being romantically involved with someone or the player character themselves. If Clementine can become a strong and well-liked character, then why can't Kate and Eleanor too? Why do both of them have to be either token girlfriends before one dies and the other turns traitor? Isn't this the year 2017? These cliches and stereotypes that are burdening Kate and Eleanor's characters have already gotten stale a long time ago.
It also says quite a lot about how this season handle female characters besides Clementine and Ava, because one of them is too young to date the player character and is already a beloved character in her own right, and the other one shows no interest in Javier or anyone else romantically at all and is actually developed more than characters such as Tripp. What's the harm in developing both Kate and Eleanor in this direction as well without bringing romance onto the table?
This also reminds me of a certain character in Dead Space 2 being ruined in the third game because of a forced love-triangle plot that almost nobody had appreciated. She was well received, likely because she wasn't written as an alternate love interest for the hero and was basically her own character.
I agree.
Agreed.