if you were able to go back to flotsam island, 80% of this forum would be complaining about them reusing locations. (it also would probably add a lot to the file size of the game all just for a pointless stroll down a month old memory lane)
Given that we have now seen most of the "Golf of Melange" by the second episode, it stands to reason that we will DEFINITELY be going back to earlier islands in later episodes. (Epically Flotsam, Given the story foreshadowing there in Ch. 1, I get the feeling that we will be going back there in Ch. 4)
Personally... by Ch. 5, i would love to have free reign over all the melange islands and locations (tying stuff from the first 4 stories into the 5th, but that's probably just a pipe dream)
This seems possible, but she first encountered guybrush on a ship... With her Grapple if you recall. So i highly doubt she has a sub.
This pretty much strengthens my theory. There was no other ship in sight when she arrived, so she can't have grappled on via her own ship (if she didn't have one). She was also dry, so she can't have swam. Guybrush also seemed surprised as to how she got there - acknowledging that she arrived under strange circumstances. So I think that one of De Cava's one-man-submarine thingies is the only way she could have arrived.
In fact, I'll wager this picture of Garth from Wayne's world and some Sour Skittles on it.
In fact, why don't you hold on to that picture as a deposit. But hold it by the sides. I don't want grease marks on it. I'm not being funny, just... hold it by the sides.
If you have a proper modern sailing boat, there is actually no problem at all getting to the direction the wind is coming from.
If the wind is blowing from your destination exactly, you just need to zigzag a little.
I have been sailing myself and I know for a 100% this is the case.
The explanation that LaFlay's ship is build 'smarter' and can therefore sail sharper against the wind is good enough for me.
What I always notice most are the medical 'plotholes'. If your hand is cut off, your body goes into shock. There is no way in hell you can be a sword fighter on top of your game right after that.
It would be like downing a liter of vodka right before your math exam
What I always notice most are the medical 'plotholes'. If your hand is cut off, your body goes into shock. There is no way in hell you can be a sword fighter on top of your game right after that.
It would be like downing a liter of vodka right before your math exam
The Monkey Island series is full with these things... MI2 is one big Medical "plothole" (Zombie Pirate).
Guybrush can hold his breath for ten minutes.
getting shot by a canon and landing on the beach pretty hard (or against a tent-pole for that matter)....
What I always notice most are the medical 'plotholes'. If your hand is cut off, your body goes into shock. There is no way in hell you can be a sword fighter on top of your game right after that.
It would be like downing a liter of vodka right before your math exam
Maybe when the hand has a pox of LeChuck disease, body doesn't go into any shock But who cares, anyway? It's Monkey Island! I mean, it's a world where sales agents make business cards in coffins, ghost pirates taking out whole human bodies out of a small slot in a VENDING machine in 17th century, a world where one can squirl someone's neck and that someone will still be alive, a world where one can kill his future self, result in a time paradox that destroys the whole universe and still get out of that mess alive. Who cares about medical plotholes that way?
It also takes more than two guys to sail a ship. Just to show that we don't need to expect a "realistic" way to get in or out of flotsam
I personally don't see what seems to be the problem here. I just assume DeSinge lets her in when he needs to (he even talked about setting up the winds so he could let her arrive in chatper one i think).
If there's any logical flaw there, then it's a pretty minor one which really doesn't bother me.
First off, it's not a plothole until we have seen the entire season, since it might actually get explained in a later chapter, especially if it's her method you use to get back to Flotsam, which is a good possibility.
Second, saying that steamships can't exist due to the time period doesn't work due to the fact that we know that there are glass-bottomed boats in Monkey Universe due to MI2, as well as science labs that utilise electricity from seeing De Singe's lab. From this, we can probably conclude that the Monkey Island games are set in a universe that follows a different set of Physics to our own, one were science is more pseudoscience and works like old Victorian sci-fi used to propose (i.e. The Time Machine by H.G. Wells).
Rowboat. Sub. Steamboat. Superiour sailing skills. Maybe she shoots herself from a cannon or somethin. Maybe she has a magical golden shoulderpad that lets her run on water. Heck, she could have a pet aligator she rides around for all we know. Honestly, there are so many explanations, that I don't really care. Just let it go, guys.
right and the winds cannot affect you under water. And she can hold her breath for 5 minutes. So she should not have any problem getting to the island.
if you were able to go back to flotsam island, 80% of this forum would be complaining about them reusing locations. (it also would probably add a lot to the file size of the game all just for a pointless stroll down a month old memory lane)
They could have at least included the lab. The blurry background during the cutscene really didn't look all that great.
It's either a submarine; or she rides mystical sea creatures; or she's one of the vaycalians with artificial legs; or she just knows a special path through the winds and currents. All plausible. But I wouldn't let it bother me in the first place, because it's not as strange as the Herman Toothrot and robotic monkey head thing in Escape from Monkey Island.
Don't winds affect currents? It's hard to swim against a strong current.
i think that depends how deep underwater you are. there can be different "layers" of water. like when you don't notice a tsunami on a boat...because it's lower and only "surfaces" in shallow water.
anyhow, morgan is never seen using any form of transportation. when she flees with the hand, she is definitely jumping into the sea and there is no ship to be seen.
then she is back on flotsam in no time...either it really is considered unimportant, since in mi some characters always used strangely fast travel methods. usually the henchman type, like largo...
...or it might me revealed later.
i like the submarine theory, because morgan really is never seen using any kind of ship. also, assuming where the third episode might take place...well, a sub might come in handy, if she's planning on following guybrush there.
She has a smaller boat. Smaller boats can pass thru reefs and stuff where the Narwhal couldn't. Just because the wind blows in the opposite direction you wanna go doesn't mean you can't go there. People need to try sailing.
She has a smaller boat. Smaller boats can pass thru reefs and stuff where the Narwhal couldn't. Just because the wind blows in the opposite direction you wanna go doesn't mean you can't go there. People need to try sailing.
Umm then how did all the other pirates of Flotsam crash there?
I thought this too, but then thought she swam back. Given how quickly guybrush can travel from one side of the island to the other, and the scale on the map, it really doesn't seem that difficult a task to swim from one island to another.
If Guybrush Threepwood can hold his breath for 10 minutes, it's possible that Morgan LeFlay can swim to Flotsam Island.
How she reached the Island, as long as it isn't said that she does EXACTLY the same thing that has been proven to be impossible (ask Winslow to bring her there on his ship), is not a plothole, as it can still be explained if it plays a role.
I might be mistaken, but I thought your mast or sails get damaged in the opening sequence with Morgan. This prevents you from giving immediate chase.
Yes, but we're not talking about the chase; it's just you can never (in any part of the Siege) visit Flotsam, supposedly because of the outward winds. Yet, Morgan managed to land there without any noticeable struggle.
DeSinge may have an alternate way to the island. He seems to understand the magic properties of the wind gods, and he has twisted, evil Science! on his side.
And we're going to return to Flotsam for Guybrush's trial, so we might want to wait and see how we get back before we start saying that anyone going back there earlier is a "plot hole".
I think that describing this as a huge plothole is too much of an overstatement. Personally, I wasn't bugged by the lack of an explanation, but for the sake of conversation, here are my theories:
Assuming the winds are no longer controlled in Flotsam, Morgan can simply get back with her own ship. Guybrush never actually follows her when she first escapes, so it's not irrational to assume that by the time he does try to get to Flotsam there's a storm.
If DeSinge has somehow managed to find a way to control the winds again, I don't think it would be hard for her to swim over to the island after having docked her ship nearby. There could be an underwater passage that leads to the island (don't forget, she can hold her breath for five minutes! ), or she is simply a good swimmer. Again, not unreasonable for a well-trained pirate/assassin.
Someone mentioned that she didn't look wet either time when she climbed aboard the Narwhal. My guess is, she either had a rowboat, or, even simpler, it's a graphics issue. Water is pretty damn hard to design and render in 3D, and water dripping off someone's body even more so; it's more than possible that they just chose not to show her wet. Don't read too much into it.
In conclusion, it doesn't matter at the moment that we don't know how she gets to Flotsam and back. Could it be important to the plot? Sure. Could it be completely irrelevant? Sure.
It's ridiculous to even give it any thought, 'plot hole' is not the correct term because as many people have said the issue does not involve the plot at all, merely the mechanics of magical winds that we know nothing about, and a mysterious pirate hunter who we know nothing about and who's ship/method of travel remains concealed iirc.
I think I agree with someone who said before that at one point, the raft had made it's way back to the island, possibly during the section with the ship blockade. However, there could be many possible explanations for this, the fact is it doesn't matter because quite frankly no one cares and it's not important. Also, I think slight inaccuracies and anomalies add to the humour, whether it be intentional to confuse you or accidental on the developer's part.
It's not a good idea to start a thread complaining about 'plot' holes that stem from game mechanics that were put there to narrow the episode's map down, but maybe to point out funny mistakes/bugs that were made. Like how Lechuck was invisible while firing the cannon. (EH TELLTALE?)
I'm just gonna point out that using certain techinques it's possible to sail against the wind... winslow just sucks using a sort of cruising along side the wind, the name of it escapes me
Seriously, I thought I was anal about inconsistencies. Come on guys... Monkey Island is a comical fantasy adventure game series. It was never meant to be realistic. In fact, that's usually part of the joke.
I might be mistaken, but I thought your mast or sails get damaged in the opening sequence with Morgan. This prevents you from giving immediate chase.
If you mean that as "you can't try going to floatsam until you fix your mast, which gives the winds time to change" that's not the case. I tried every island on the map before trying Jerkbait island, with my mast still broken. I still could get everywhere (well, GB doesn't want to go to Gelato and the winds prevent you from getting closer to Floatsam)
Seriously, I thought I was anal about inconsistencies. Come on guys... Monkey Island is a comical fantasy adventure game series. It was never meant to be realistic. In fact, that's usually part of the joke.
WITHIN REASON. We're not asking why the sky turns funky colors or why the canons have unlimited ammo. Every series lives within its own realm of logic, and this is something that doesn't make sense. By your logic, Jodi (one of the children in Family Matters) went upstairs and disappeared as a part of a joke.
WITHIN REASON. We're not asking why the sky turns funky colors or why the canons have unlimited ammo. Every series lives within its own realm of logic, and this is something that doesn't make sense.
Morgan finding a way to arrive at Flotsam (SOMEHOW... if we don't know a way, doesn't mean there is no way) makes more sense than any of the funky colors, automatic cannons with unlimited ammo, a whole blockade of one-manned ships, and Guybrush carrying a shovel in his pants. Considering that, and so much more, it's kind of funny to hear complaints that something is not "WITHIN REASON"... Guybrush had his neck twirled and twisted, for crying out loud. I can understand people complaining about, for example, Herman-Marley thing, but this... is just not something worth debating.
Morgan finding a way to arrive at Flotsam (SOMEHOW... if we don't know a way, doesn't mean there is no way) makes more sense than any of the funky colors, automatic cannons with unlimited ammo, a whole blockade of one-manned ships, and Guybrush carrying a shovel in his pants. Considering that, and so much more, it's kind of funny to hear complaints that something is not "WITHIN REASON"... Guybrush had his neck twirled and twisted, for crying out loud. I can understand people complaining about, for example, Herman-Marley thing, but this... is just not something worth debating.
I just explained my sentiments in my post, all of which you ignored. A giant qtip "key" fitting in his pants is an obvious joke. His pants being a bottomless storage unit is a running in game gag. The winds of the island are not a gag. It's something that's been established as a physical law. It's what the whole damned first episode was about.
Honestly now. If Desinge was that upset that pirates would not be going to Flotsam Island because of the wind changes then there's no real reason or explanation for why Morgan could.
Comments
if you were able to go back to flotsam island, 80% of this forum would be complaining about them reusing locations. (it also would probably add a lot to the file size of the game all just for a pointless stroll down a month old memory lane)
Given that we have now seen most of the "Golf of Melange" by the second episode, it stands to reason that we will DEFINITELY be going back to earlier islands in later episodes. (Epically Flotsam, Given the story foreshadowing there in Ch. 1, I get the feeling that we will be going back there in Ch. 4)
Personally... by Ch. 5, i would love to have free reign over all the melange islands and locations (tying stuff from the first 4 stories into the 5th, but that's probably just a pipe dream)
This pretty much strengthens my theory. There was no other ship in sight when she arrived, so she can't have grappled on via her own ship (if she didn't have one). She was also dry, so she can't have swam. Guybrush also seemed surprised as to how she got there - acknowledging that she arrived under strange circumstances. So I think that one of De Cava's one-man-submarine thingies is the only way she could have arrived.
In fact, I'll wager this picture of Garth from Wayne's world and some Sour Skittles on it.
In fact, why don't you hold on to that picture as a deposit. But hold it by the sides. I don't want grease marks on it. I'm not being funny, just... hold it by the sides.
Excuse me, but... how can you tell?
Besides, nobody's kinda wondering how she
If the wind is blowing from your destination exactly, you just need to zigzag a little.
I have been sailing myself and I know for a 100% this is the case.
The explanation that LaFlay's ship is build 'smarter' and can therefore sail sharper against the wind is good enough for me.
What I always notice most are the medical 'plotholes'. If your hand is cut off, your body goes into shock. There is no way in hell you can be a sword fighter on top of your game right after that.
It would be like downing a liter of vodka right before your math exam
remember she doesn't have a boat or ship when she came on (or left) the Narwhal.
The Monkey Island series is full with these things... MI2 is one big Medical "plothole" (Zombie Pirate).
Guybrush can hold his breath for ten minutes.
getting shot by a canon and landing on the beach pretty hard (or against a tent-pole for that matter)....
Lots of things like that.
Maybe when the hand has a pox of LeChuck disease, body doesn't go into any shock
It also takes more than two guys to sail a ship. Just to show that we don't need to expect a "realistic" way to get in or out of flotsam
I personally don't see what seems to be the problem here. I just assume DeSinge lets her in when he needs to (he even talked about setting up the winds so he could let her arrive in chatper one i think).
If there's any logical flaw there, then it's a pretty minor one which really doesn't bother me.
Second, saying that steamships can't exist due to the time period doesn't work due to the fact that we know that there are glass-bottomed boats in Monkey Universe due to MI2, as well as science labs that utilise electricity from seeing De Singe's lab. From this, we can probably conclude that the Monkey Island games are set in a universe that follows a different set of Physics to our own, one were science is more pseudoscience and works like old Victorian sci-fi used to propose (i.e. The Time Machine by H.G. Wells).
right and the winds cannot affect you under water. And she can hold her breath for 5 minutes. So she should not have any problem getting to the island.
They could have at least included the lab. The blurry background during the cutscene really didn't look all that great.
Or I have no idea what I'm talking about. That works too.
Actually, if there is an explanation and it's not just a plothole, I vote for submarine.
i think that depends how deep underwater you are. there can be different "layers" of water. like when you don't notice a tsunami on a boat...because it's lower and only "surfaces" in shallow water.
anyhow, morgan is never seen using any form of transportation. when she flees with the hand, she is definitely jumping into the sea and there is no ship to be seen.
then she is back on flotsam in no time...either it really is considered unimportant, since in mi some characters always used strangely fast travel methods. usually the henchman type, like largo...
...or it might me revealed later.
i like the submarine theory, because morgan really is never seen using any kind of ship. also, assuming where the third episode might take place...well, a sub might come in handy, if she's planning on following guybrush there.
She's already followed him. The whole boat was swallowed, and she was still on it, right ?
Umm then how did all the other pirates of Flotsam crash there?
The winds were going the other way in the first episode.
How she reached the Island, as long as it isn't said that she does EXACTLY the same thing that has been proven to be impossible (ask Winslow to bring her there on his ship), is not a plothole, as it can still be explained if it plays a role.
Yes, but we're not talking about the chase; it's just you can never (in any part of the Siege) visit Flotsam, supposedly because of the outward winds. Yet, Morgan managed to land there without any noticeable struggle.
And we're going to return to Flotsam for Guybrush's trial, so we might want to wait and see how we get back before we start saying that anyone going back there earlier is a "plot hole".
Assuming the winds are no longer controlled in Flotsam, Morgan can simply get back with her own ship. Guybrush never actually follows her when she first escapes, so it's not irrational to assume that by the time he does try to get to Flotsam there's a storm.
If DeSinge has somehow managed to find a way to control the winds again, I don't think it would be hard for her to swim over to the island after having docked her ship nearby. There could be an underwater passage that leads to the island (don't forget, she can hold her breath for five minutes!
Someone mentioned that she didn't look wet either time when she climbed aboard the Narwhal. My guess is, she either had a rowboat, or, even simpler, it's a graphics issue. Water is pretty damn hard to design and render in 3D, and water dripping off someone's body even more so; it's more than possible that they just chose not to show her wet. Don't read too much into it.
In conclusion, it doesn't matter at the moment that we don't know how she gets to Flotsam and back. Could it be important to the plot? Sure. Could it be completely irrelevant? Sure.
One unexplained detail does not a plothole make.
Yet Flotsam town was there ok once he opened the door on his balcony?
Yes, I believe that is the reason.
I think I agree with someone who said before that at one point, the raft had made it's way back to the island, possibly during the section with the ship blockade. However, there could be many possible explanations for this, the fact is it doesn't matter because quite frankly no one cares and it's not important. Also, I think slight inaccuracies and anomalies add to the humour, whether it be intentional to confuse you or accidental on the developer's part.
It's not a good idea to start a thread complaining about 'plot' holes that stem from game mechanics that were put there to narrow the episode's map down, but maybe to point out funny mistakes/bugs that were made. Like how Lechuck was invisible while firing the cannon. (EH TELLTALE?)
Suspension of disbelief
Seriously, I thought I was anal about inconsistencies. Come on guys... Monkey Island is a comical fantasy adventure game series. It was never meant to be realistic. In fact, that's usually part of the joke.
If you mean that as "you can't try going to floatsam until you fix your mast, which gives the winds time to change" that's not the case. I tried every island on the map before trying Jerkbait island, with my mast still broken. I still could get everywhere (well, GB doesn't want to go to Gelato and the winds prevent you from getting closer to Floatsam)
-=0
WITHIN REASON. We're not asking why the sky turns funky colors or why the canons have unlimited ammo. Every series lives within its own realm of logic, and this is something that doesn't make sense. By your logic, Jodi (one of the children in Family Matters) went upstairs and disappeared as a part of a joke.
Morgan finding a way to arrive at Flotsam (SOMEHOW... if we don't know a way, doesn't mean there is no way) makes more sense than any of the funky colors, automatic cannons with unlimited ammo, a whole blockade of one-manned ships, and Guybrush carrying a shovel in his pants. Considering that, and so much more, it's kind of funny to hear complaints that something is not "WITHIN REASON"... Guybrush had his neck twirled and twisted, for crying out loud. I can understand people complaining about, for example, Herman-Marley thing, but this... is just not something worth debating.
I just explained my sentiments in my post, all of which you ignored. A giant qtip "key" fitting in his pants is an obvious joke. His pants being a bottomless storage unit is a running in game gag. The winds of the island are not a gag. It's something that's been established as a physical law. It's what the whole damned first episode was about.
Honestly now. If Desinge was that upset that pirates would not be going to Flotsam Island because of the wind changes then there's no real reason or explanation for why Morgan could.