Jane is the worst.
Over the past few days, I've played through Season 2 again so I can decide on whether or not I would place it over A New Frontier or not. During the first time I played through the season, I despised Kenny. He seemed to be a toxin to the group, and everything he did seemed to be a detriment to everyone around him. When I played this season a second time, though, I noticed something. Other than Clementine, he's the only one trying and succeeding in getting anything done. His plans and actions backfired in major ways, but they also succeeded in others, and the rash actions were justified, despite being extreme. This is compared to...
Nick - Who killed a harmless man, got himself trapped after the incident at the creek, and did not have a hand in escaping Howe's
Luke - Who saved Sarah, was a good influence to Clementine, but put the group in danger by sleeping with Jane instead of keeping watch and spent a lot of time with petty arguments
Mike - He, uh, carried water that one time and then robbed Clem, Kenny and Jane
Bonnie - Got help from the lodge group, betrayed them, stayed with Carver for a while, betrayed him, traveled with the group, aaaaaaand betrayed them. I'm sure she's sorry, though
Sarah - Freaked out a lot, contributed little
Alvin and Rebecca - Good people who weren't built for the world that they were suddenly found themselves in
And then there is Jane. I will give her credit for giving the group the idea to cover themselves in walker guts to get through the horde, but Clem could've did that, and after that, it was all downhill from there. From her first conversation to her last she tried to plant doubt in everyone's heads or use them for whatever she wanted. Her main purpose in all of her conversations with Clementine was to try to make Clementine eventually leave with her. She made her distrust everyone except for her while telling Clementine sob stories about her past. On top of that, she put the group in danger by stealing from Arvo and sleeping with Luke. Somehow, she then outdoes herself by not even trying to save Sarah (which was doable considering she just needed to be freed from the rubble), and then she just take off!
sigh
If her story just ended there, I could've lived with it. At that point, she was a broken person who experienced a lot of horrible things. I can understand why she came to believe things in the way that she did, and I understand why she thought she was helping Clementine by pushing that worldview on her. I can understand why she thought that Sarah would get a compassionate person or group of people killed, but the manipulation that she put Clementine through after she showed up at that gunfight is what makes Jane a much worse person than anybody else in that group, and probably the biggest reason why Clementine became a loner (other than the fact that every damn group she runs into sucking). Every conversation Jane had with her was to try to turn Clementine against the group. She tells Clementine to distrust Kenny while also slowly egging him on and on until she gets way more aggressive in the truck. She pushes Kenny into losing control of the truck, and then she talks Clementine into leaving her friend behind by making Clementine panic, and then, well we know the rest...
Everybody in that cabin group had their weaknesses, and those weaknesses lead them all to do stupid and/or reckless things. What Jane did was not stupid, however. It was calculated. Everything she did was the result of a well thought out decision or plan. She was out for her own gains, and she did not care what she had to do to other people to get it. I would not have been surprised if she eventually tried to talk Clementine into stealing the truck and supplies down the road, since the other people would be a liability to the life that she wanted to live with her new little sister. It is because of the nature of her actions that I consider her entrance into Clementine's life among the worst things to happen to Clementine, and she is the worst person in the group.
Comments
Yeah I really didn't care much for many of the characters. Carlos I could understand for being a father, Sarah too being sheltered, and Kenny for dealing with bullshit for the 100th time, but the rest were just bagage and problems.
It had the redeeming factor of letting us play as Clem and having good dialog options and characterization for her despite the fact they somehow decided it would be wise to let a little girl do all the heavy lifting in the group. Kind of puts things in perspective. They really should've ended it there, I was already doubtful at the time about them continuing the story because of the many branching options.
But you're right, Jane was purposefully adversary to the group. At least Kenny tried.
TT was originally going to have Luke VS Kenny, not Jane VS Kenny, which explains his random death. I found it odd when Jane and Kenny started hating each other for no reason. I guess they thought that you'd have a tougher decision having to choose between a sisterly figure or a fatherly figure? I think it would've been better if they stuck with their original ending cause Jane isn't really a nice person..
Yeah the end of season2 was just a big clusterfuck. I was looking at a Luke vs Kenny fight. I think the writers chickened out. I mean think about it...if it had been a Luke vs Kenny fight...I know who I would have voted for...Luke. With Jane vs Kenny it was like so damn random...like...Oh her is Jane back...oh and lets have her hide AJ so we can sorta forget all the messed up shit Kenny did all season. With Luke...there is no way Kenny looks good...and the writers suddenly were looking at being the ones to turn a beloved character from S1 into a monster...so they chickened out.
Hadn't even read, agree completely. She kills herself with 2 kids around, because she doesn't want 3, she also branded a child, A FUCKING CHILD!!! WITH THE OTHER CHILDS FUCKING NAME!!! If that's not favouritism, then I don't know what is.
Really? Luke vs Kenny? Holy shit... I would've never been able to choose.
right ! i still had trouble choosing nevertheless
I agree completely. Jane was selfish and manipulative and her main goal was having Clem be her replacement sister. She didn't truly care about the welfare of the kids. She knew Kenny for 3 days or less and has the audacity to compare him to Carver. And to top it all off she hides a baby in a walker infested blizzard just to prove that the guardian of said baby would get upset. Absolute mess of a person.
I can already tell that I won't agree with you about Jane regarding practically anything at all, and I'm probably a bit biased considering she's literally my favourite character in this whole franchise. But I'll admit, the timing of her and Kenny's so-called "rivalry" really felt... off. They kind of shoehorned it in after discovering that the Luke vs. Kenny thing was getting too predictable, and it didn't really have the right build-up that they needed to make it work.
The two of them surely would've butted heads, and I'm sure people can argue about "who was right" or "which one was better" or "my character can eat more nachos than yours" until they're blue in the face, but it's not gonna change the fact that they're both dead now.
If anything, I'd like to think that wherever they wounded up (if you believe in that sort of thing), that they would've just said, "Fuck it. I'll buy you a beer."
Yeah, Jane is a borderline sociopath when you think about it. Figured she'd be trouble when she first showed up, but clearly underestimated what a threat she really was.
"Act like you belong, and you will"
Pretty much sums up Jane's interactions with humans.
Agreed. It didn't sink in for me until after I completed the game. I hated that Kenny was going to murder her in cold blood, so I saved her. After the betrayal with AJ, I was so mad but the thought of Aj and Clem being alone scared me so much so I went back to Howe's with her. After completing the game I realized that she was likely a sociopath. I have always stuck with my original desicions in twd so I kept my ending. She played me. I should have gone alone or let her die, especially with what she did in ANF. So yeah, fuck that sociopathic hoe. She never even cared about Clementine.
Jane is the
worstbestJane is a horrible person much like Kenny but on another level entirely. I don't think she even took AJ's condition into actual consideration putting him in that car, what if he froze to death? Or a walker stumbled along? Or he was never found? And all because she wanted to prove that a guardian of a child (who's known to have a bad temperment) would come unhinged if that child was killed due to an "accident". She manipulated both Kenny and Clementine on the whim that Kenny might actually go psycho one day, and only that really.
And after she took the kids from the one man that would never abandon them? She abandoned them, without any thought of their safety or well being. Seriously, fuck Jane.
What confuses me is why they depict Jane as being the only person sympathetic towards Kenny in the beginning of episode 5 and have her try to get Clementine to guide Kenny down the right path and then they automatically dislike each other because Kenny is unreasonable and Jane now wants to go to Howe's because they know there's baby formula (which is a pretty believable reason for a conflict tbh).
Okay, I'm going to defend Jane, because I am a fan of her character and found her to be undeserving of the amount of hatred she constantly gets (although A New Frontier seemed to purposefully make her a more dislike-able person, which is no surprise, you could smell the bias from Season 2 Episode 2).
Luke and Jane are both to blame for them sleeping together but the walkers get spotted regardless and Luke, even if he did scout the area, there's no way of knowing that he would've been in sight of the walkers at the time of their arrival. Even then, I'm not sure what Luke being present would've changed, the walkers would still eventually make their way to the observation deck (noise didn't draw them) and let's not try to expect these characters to be perfect with their own decisions when other characters have done far worse to endanger the whole group.
As for Arvo, in Jane and Clementine's eyes, he was a threat (Clementine pulls the gun on Arvo regardless) and it makes sense for Jane to take the gun away from a potential threat to the group, if you were in that situation and met a stranger who threatened to kill you and stated he had friends while the rest of your group (including determinantly another child, a possible love interest, a pregnant lady and an emotionally broken man) were only a few meters away? How many people would actually trust a stranger, who also seemed to be trying to hide a stash of medicine? As for her decision endangering the group, how is that? Arvo's group is waiting at the exact same place at the exact same time *regardless of when the group leaves or whether the medicine is stolen*, are we meant to insinuate that the group had cleverly predicted the group would come down that exact path and that they had apparently been in the same place for multiple days in a row?
Except Jane already saved Sarah once prior in this scenario, risking her life for a girl she never met who refused to budge after countless people tried. Sure, that's immoral for her to put her own safety and the safety of those who are able to survive in the moment before that of one who is suffering emotionally and mentally, but I don't see many people condoning Jane for staying behind for Clementine and determinantly Sarah and risking her life in the process. In the second instance, Jane only doesn't try to save Sarah if Clementine pulls her up, otherwise she jumps down and tries to pull Sarah free but because of magically appearing plot rubble, she was unable to and she could've suffered a concussion from the plank that fell on her head. You're honestly blaming Jane for being the only one who even attempts to save Sarah? What about the others, Clementine included? They barely attempted to tried and save her, Bonnie and Mike just fire a bullet each and that's it (and we know they had more ammo).
And finally, in regards to Jane leaving - she had every right to. She barely knew most of these people yet she had already risked her life on multiple occasions for them and helped them and showed care towards them despite disliking them (such as when she wanted to make sure that Rebecca had something to protect herself before the group left), in the end, her leaving was an understandable choice, she didn't like being in groups and she just witnessed the death of a teenager (possibly reminding her of her sister Jaime), she had absolutely no obligations to the group, if anything, they owed her more than the other way around.
But yes, let's all call Jane a selfish bitch and forget...
1. Although I do think it was for more personal reasons, she used Troy as a distraction and injured him which was beneficial to the group as the walkers would draw towards him and he wouldn't be able to harm anyone.
2. She risked her life in the horde by deciding to safely guide Clementine and Rebecca (and in extension AJ) out of it, whilst everyone else mostly focused on their own survival.
3. She risked her life a second time by saving Luke, Clementine and determinantly Sarah in a room that walkers were surrounding and almost breaking into.
4. She can risk her life for Sarah again by being the only one who tries to save her but fails in doing so and gets a plank to the head.
5. Let's not forget that she killed Vitali and felt bad about doing so, which saved Kenny and possibly the rest of the group.
6. Jane is the one who mediates the group when Mike and Kenny start arguing.
7. She's the one who risks falling into the ice to save Clementine's life if she falls in.
8. She's the one who focuses on starting a fire for warmth (especially so if Clementine and or Bonnie fell in the ice) and she's the one who actually looks for the rations and makes sure Clementine has something to eat.
9. She's the one who suggests going back to Howe's because they know it has baby formula, making it the best destination to go to at the time because they knew it existed and they knew it had food for AJ (which Kenny had stated was running low).
TL;DR - Jane is not just some selfish loner bitch. She has done far more for the group and strangers than other members of the group have, she had risked her life on multiple occasions, left with every right to and we forget that other characters did nothing in situations like Sarah's second death - only Jane intervened with very little aid, yet allot of people only like to remember her for her mistakes and mindset at the time.
Edit - Tried to make post easier to read and highlighted which points I'm referring to.
Edit: The Sequel - Tried to highlight a few key points and added a TL;DR
Jane is the worst, at least you know Carver and Joan will try to stab you in the back !
( If no one noticed yet, I like Tripp)
And what it is that stuff in teeltale writer's head for wanting kill every one in their game !?
Jane done a lot for the group. Helped get them out of Carver's, had to babysit Rebecca and Clementine when they were walking through the horde of zombies, assisted in the rescue of Luke and Sarah, helped Kenny kill the Russians, showed Clementine an easy way to kill the walkers and saved her life when she was about to drown.
I agree that Jane didn't care about the group much in general though and considered them a liability. Jane didn't really believe much in groups and was pretty honest about that at least.
Carlos was okay. Alvin was decent and rebecca at first was just ugh but gradually she turned out to be a decent person. Still didn't like her attitude and behavior initially. Luke was a complainer, got into petty arguments, put everyone in danger and was an obnoxious jerk. Sarah was cool and I think she and her character had potential. Nick was a more edgy ben. Pete was cool. Season 2 was better than anf imo. Jane although under handed in some of her ways, selfish and sneaky she wasn't all bad and I felt sympathy for her. And even with all of the misdeeds I loved her like crazy. It was love at first sight with jane and with molly.
Luke vs. Kenny would've been 10x better than Jane vs Kenny. At least with Luke we stuck around him longer, almost for the whole season. He's such a good guy too. I also wouldn't know who to side with either.
With Jane, you only got to know her for like 2 episodes. At first, I thought she'd stay gone like Molly in Season One, but when she came back I was disappointed. I liked Kenny but disliked Jane, so the choice was easy for me to make.
looks at the title
oh boi
I get the feeling you've had to talk about this sort of thing before
Anyways, thank you. It's encouraging to know that there are still people out there that can dig deeper and see the decent side of Jane, rather than just tossing her to the side, calling her a bitch and moving on.
It's all good, but ANF writers decided to forget about all that and change characters and outcomes however they wanted:
Jane is selfish bitch that leaves a 9 year old with a baby in dangerous place, even though she has many months to find a safe place for them or even try to find a doctor to make an abortion. They knew about Wellington. They could try their luck, but plot needs Jane dead and Clem scarred, so that's the best we can come up with, because ANF plot.
Kenny is perfectly fine father figure for a few years after he lost so many people close to him and going through multiple mental breakdowns. Being overly violent towards a kid and murdering someone for losing a child in horrible conditions (not exactly true, but that's information what was given to him and that was his reaction) doesn't affect him at all. Let's just go to Florida and enjoy our happy life Clem & AJ, but then ANF plot happens.
Leaving them for Wellington, a community that was known across different states appeares to be a village that gets overrun by a few wannabe thugs and Clem's new mother figure gets killed, because ANF plot.
If you stay alone there's no one to kill. So, there's no one to finish off.
At this point those discussions don't make any sense with the latest season which is a result when a 3rd installment in a story tailored game tries to appeal to newcomers and to old fans at the same time, as if S1 and S2 are not good enough to attract new players anymore.
Unless TT retcon those flashback all those walls of texts are meaningless now.
i wish there was some explanation for Wellington s fall something like the group being crippled because a large part of the group stole alot of their supplies and left leaving Wellington with Less people and less supplies which would be the reason why they deny supplies to the group that attacks Wellington which leads to its downfall because they dont have alot of people with them anymore.
Would make alot more sense then: Well there were 10 people that took down Wellington which has been established to be a famous community which has several people in it.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in defending and liking this character.
Thank you prink34320, CarlGotKennyd and especially you leafs_nation. For showing that are still a few who care in despite of the naysayers and haters.
Kenny's actions were rash, and brutal, but in comparison to the rest of the group, he's the most sane and the only logical human from the bunch. Think about it, Kenny was minding his own business in his ski lodge when Clem returns with a dozen brainless morons. He accepts them in and even gives them a meal. That's until the group he lets in gets 2 of the 4 members of his group killed in 1 day. He then gets roped into this groups fucking drama, yet he still tries to help them. So they're on the car journey to Howe's when this group that killed 2 of his friends, ruined his pleasant life and got him kidnapped have the utter audacity to blame him for it. Kenny, for whatever reason, puts up with their stupid shit, and yet again helps them. He loses an eye for those ungrateful fucks, then they all die anyway. Things get the most heated once Arvo comes around. This Harry Potter looking mother fucker sends all of his Russians to blow everyone in the group away, and the group slaughters all of them. So, logically thinking, you would kill the little fuck who sent them that almost got a baby killed.
"KENNY HE'S JUST A KID!!!!!111!!!!!"
Even after that, Kenny gives them the benefit of the doubt and goes along with these knuckle-draggers to this place Arvo says has supplies. Arvo possibly gets 2 other people killed on the lake and Kenny finally lets his fucking pent up rage at these petulant children out on this random schmuck no one likes anyway, who has attempted murder and got 2 people killed. Of course, that's too far though, despite the fact that someone else shots his own sister right in front of his eyes. Anyway, what happens happens and Kenny and Clem are left with Jane. Unlike the Cabin group, she actually has a brain, and doesn't sit there with a thumb in her ass. Hopefully she helps out, and doesn't just blindly blame all of her problems on Kenny because he's rightfully a bit grumpy sometimes. She'll probably support him, she's cool like that right?
She pretends to kill a baby and then forces a child to shoot this poor man.
So let's round things up then, shall we?
Kenny was happily sitting in his winter-y wonderland with 2 cool friendos and a new girlfriend, a random group comes, he opens his arms up to them, they get his entire group fucking demolished, they get him roped into their stupid drama, he loses an eye for them and stops mourning his lover so he can deliver another literal human, and what does he get in return?
They steal his supplies, run away and fucking murder him.
The cabin group was just too stupid for their own good. It was Bonnie, Mike and motherfuckin' Jane who are the real villains. Jane was a manipulative bitch who already left the group once, and didn't need to come back. Kenny is a victim to the world's stupidity.
Wellington is the only ending Kenny deserves, because other people are plain and simply too fucking retarded for him.
Imagine it had been Molly who came back at Howes rather than introduce Jane. Would that affect anyones choice? Obviously we would know more about Molly's sister and not Jane's but besides that not much character would change
To make her look all the more "noble" in comparison. Nevermind that Bonnie was a similar middle ground for a while.
Keh.
Well, that's one way of putting it.
To be fair, Carlos's point there was that Kenny's rash actions in shooting at Carver's posse ended up getting Walter and determinately Alvin killed. Yes, Carver was a bigger asshole, but he was an egotistical asshole who was perfectly content to take his prisoners back to home base, but just used Kenny's little dickmeasuring contest as an excuse to bump off a few people, including his former friend turned rival.
That's not why the Russians were there at all: they were only there because Jane attacked Arvo and when they recognized Clementine as her accomplice, they decided to pay evil unto evil by robbing them of some things. Arvo himself is clearly a bit iffy about doing so, even if he's comfortable punishing them if the medicine was taken, and it's realizing there's a baby in the group that convinces him to actually get his leader to call it off. It just so happens that Buricko is an aggressive dick who cared more about accepting a challenge than anything else at that point.
Eh, sort of true, but the whole point of the finale is that Kenny himself had a hand in certain things going wrong and it was his increasing instability that scared off Mike&Bonnie and partially pissed off Arvo&Jane enough to go on the offensive.
Yeah I don't think even Carver would of hid a baby in the cold with walkers around only to prove a point. Well Carver tended to force his point anyhow.
Arvo : that medicine is foR my sisteR "
Hidding the pills in a trash can ?
Mkay … 3 injured persons in my team… I pick the pills
It was confirmed that he was trying to find a hiding place for it so he can get his sister away from the other two. Which in hindsight makes sense, given that he was apparently just gonna walk off to find another hiding spot if you stay silence and hidden.
The point of the choice is to decide whether your own by stealing them is more important than your morals.
When it has been confirmed ? In the game ?
Actually when I pick the pills I thought next we will have an option to share, like take only half, when. Othing happened I was like "huh WTF"
Yeah, I know. Season 2's choices were pretty damn bidimensional when you think about them.
Honestly, if Clementine had the option simply made the case that both groups are hurting and that they can make an alliance of convenience to help each other out, so much shit could've been avoided. Instead, Jane just needlessly put pressure on her in blatant disregard for Arvo and Natasha's situation, pissing him off in the process.
It was on the Telltale Stream promoting ANF back in October/November by one of the writers/producers of the episode.
With a title like that, I'm surprised there's no shitposting.
Indeed bi dimensional as fuck
Sit with Kenny or with Luke
Help Nick or his father/Uncle ?
Kill the dog or kill the dog (fuck telltale for this)
Shoot Kenny or let him kill jane
Etc etc etc
The only one I trusted in that season from the very start was Luke and Pete.
I couldn't trust Kenny, same for Jane. That's why I left alone.