Can Telltale write good heros and villains?
The recent Telltale games I have seen have really seemed to have had a quality drop in writing the more the story goes on.
Protagonist
In this instance let's talk about ANF's Javier Garcia. We meet him 4 years into the apocalypse without much of a very interesting or meaningful backstory. He's a former baseball player that got kicked out of the league for apparently betting on himself (according to Conrad) who's Fame has distanced himself from his family until his career ended. Right off the bat he has no objective and over the course of the game there's really not that much of a character change he goes through. He doesn't have much of a start goal/end goal to him. Included the characters he's around that are on a basis pretty unlikable such as Gabe and Kate, his most meaningful relationship is that with David and even that isn't really written too deep or delved into. Compare with Lee Everett from Season 1 and you'll see Lee seems much more like an original character. He has a character change from being a convicted murderer to a caretaker and sees it fit to protect Clementine. The story of Season 1 made me feel as if he completed that in a certain way and while it was sad, it was definitely a good close for Lee as a character. Javier saves Richmond and with two members of his family dead, Kate just says "Wanna start a family". The tone of the story that A New Frontier makes death seem irrelevant and it doesn't seem to have any impact on much of the characters. Given that a lot of people have died 4 years in it has changed people however these people haven't experienced that much death based upon being introduced, the deaths of Mariana, David and Gabe hardly much even come off as sad anymore. Death is the one constant in The Walking Dead and any time someone loses a major person in their group it should have an effect on someone's personality
Antagonists
There's not really a clear cut villain of the entire story. We don't really get any sort of opposing force until Episode 2. The idea of Joan is pretty interesting. A seemingly harmless, homely and kind character and is revealed to be the bad guy. Even her motives sound somewhat plausible but the way she's thrown in and out of the story is really awkward. She's perceived as a huge threat and then we get to "the execution of David". The switcharoo was a nice twist but then she pretty much ruins herself with one line "I can do anything I want!". From that point on I just facepalmed. Then the option to kill her comes up. Whether you choose to or not she makes no further appearances and is written out of the story. Why couldn't they have changed episode 5's plot to account for Joan being alive? In TWAU we meet the very wrathful and creepy Crooked Man, someone who has caused problems that Bigby has encountered throughout the entire way and finally brings him to justice and even rendered powerless and in custody, he still had me believing that he would have talked his way out of walking free.
Grey Characters
We've encountered this in both prior seasons. They're in a zone of moral ambiguity and can't really be judged on the basis. This is also present with 2 characters though done poorly. In episode 1 Conrad, instead of intelligently arguing as to why turning in Clementine would be a good idea he just yanks Gabe and points a gun to his head to give the forced option on whether they want to kill him or not. Although he was a good determinant character Telltale has had for while, his determinant status lessens his effect or impact in the story. David is the primary example of this but even he's sort of a cut out stereotype. He's a pissed off former "soldier" that constantly blames his fuck ups and shit attitude on the fact that he's been in war. The relationship between him and Javier also isn't as fulfilling as it could have been.
Comments
Yes.. Well I mean atleast they use to. New Frontier I believe could of been decent. They caused their own undoing from drastic project changes to character switches that another character was intended to carry out. If they only changed one thing to the story then I believe the characters motives would had made more sense. They had the right ingredients but then added peanut butter instead of actual butter then sugar instead of salt at the last minute thus ruining everything. Also way too many chefs were in the kitchen for the story who's unknown experiences with writing could be called into question no less. That was a season two mistake that got ballooned out of proportion this time.
So are we supposed to answer the question in the title or are we just talking about ANF?
Their only saving grace is having Kirkman either take over as lead writer for S4 or have him have a bigger part in creativity in the series.
Kirkman do this very well so I suggest that he could take over writing but it doesnt seem possible due to his work for comics and TV Shows. Game writing could be more hard for him.
lol the governor is one of the most ridiculous over the top bad guys ever.
The fact that he needed an evil mustache and eyepatch is just the icing on the cake.
The TV show making him look like your friendly neighbor was genius.
I dont read the comics so I reached this opinion cause of people comments about the topic.
In TV Show, he was good at the start but especially this season, I didnt like some episodes they were waste. It is probably due to the effort make TV Show different than comics so people wouldnt guess the endings.
He could put the same good job again in games because it doesnt related with TV Show and related a bit with comic storyline.
Heroes, yes. Villains, don't think so. Not after Season 1, at least.
Well, he still got the tank
Heroes not heros
Sure, he is.
I don't think the characters are the underlying issue after S1. If anything what I've noticed is a consistent plea to see more of them, which isn't something people ask for of terrible characters. This goes beyond ANF, as a pattern first established in S2. There's a large cast that aren't utilized for much more than bodies to hit the floor. The pacing and plot elements are the main issues.
We've had fine antagonists in Carver -- he just should've been around for the entire season rather than introducing Arvo into the mix. The story needed to dive more into Rebecca's past with him to establish her as more than a token replacement pregnant character to Christa's abruptly passed over plot. We needed more time with Alvin and Carlos to piece together life for them in the warehouse and an established reason they'd stopped running only as far as that cabin -- a harsh winter, struggling food supplies, pregnancy complications, something. Time to develop Luke as a leader, Sarah's friendship, and Nick's arc. The characters were fine, except the pacing / plots didn't explore them enough. It could've had the Wellington arc from the start as a goal -- they needed to reach it to save themselves from Carver's relentless obsession with taking the baby and killing the rest of them as well as simply surviving the winter in a harsh climate without the warehouse supplies.
Even if I didn't care for Joan, she could've made a fine villain too if the plot pushed far enough. Eleanor should've been left as her daughter, an infiltrator to nearby communities as an informant - supplies they have, resistance and weak points. It would establish and explore her past with Tripp - using him for intel while not caring for him. Why she comes on strong the moment she meets Javier who just wandered into camp and is involved in a murder -- she wanted more info on the new muscle, where he came from , if there's more with him that could be trouble. Yes, they could've left David as the main villain too, but it would've been boring and predictable like the unavoidable fight in Ep5 was. ANF got lost in the pacing, and plot. It needed a goal, and the characters would've fleshed out en route to this goal.
It had one, just not pushed hard enough. It could've been a revenge story and what that does to people. It had the central theme that connected Javier, David, and Clementine -- revenge for Mariana, betrayal, and AJ. It could've worked fine as a trilogy -- S1 protagonist being David ( could have an Ava/Kate or Ava/Lingard romance struggle) which could've given us a guardian vibe with Clementine as we explored ANF cast and better playable Clementine moments, S2 being Javier playable in Prescott with a Kate / Eleanor romance option or have Jesus introduced visiting there investigating raids and playable Gabriel moments, and S3 would've brought everyone together playable per chapter. David / Javier facing off with Joan / Clint and Gabriel / Clementine racing off to get AJ.
Or Clementine could've been playable through the entire thing ( I just missed having someone like Lee to control in S2 and Javier/David suit that ). The main point remains - the characters just need more time/opportunities for us to grow attached to them. People did like Kate, David, Javier, and yes there are those that like Gabe. Redone with an expanded plot, it could've been the series rebooted for new and old alike.
Probably both, with the latter being his examples of the contrary.
Oh, is that why he looks lame?
Also, I thought the TV Show Governor was an old man?
Okay, this sounds like you have fine, vaguely thought out concepts imo...for the first half. Not to say the second half is shit or didn't have as much thought put into it, but let's just say there are some things I really didn't like.
Also, the idea of splitting ANF into 3 [mini?]seasons is indeed a cool concept. I'm just not sure that would actually fly too well.
The second half doesn't have as much thought put in it lol. Post was becoming a novel, and I was running out of time
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Ah, okay.
Not really. His hair does noticeably start graying towards the end, though.
Okay. I just remember flipping someone the channel once onto the Walking Dead and there was this old man with an eyepatch and a shotgun(?) moving through a building, so I assumed that was the Governor when I heard a description of him.
They already did.
Yeah, Larry was one of my favorite characters of Season One, particularly with his portrayal and treatment in Starved for Help.
Yeah, he didnt behave as an antagonist he was an angell fallen from heaven. He wasnt a complete douchebag he was a sweet angel.
I get David was designed as a "gray area" character, but I don't feel Telltale gave him enough redeeming features for me to endure him throughout the whole season. Larry was a total asshole, for example, but he was made vulnerable (and more accessible) to the player early on when he had a heart attack. In stark contrast, David never has any kind of "off" button. They basically took the worst aspects of Kenny, stuffed them into David, and cranked them up to 100. I'm still not completely sure what they were trying to do with him.
There's also the fact that he had a legit point of contention with Lee and was concerned for Lilly and Clementine's safety around him.
I think that's what they were going for with the Episode 4 flashback.
This.
no idea, maybe your eyes played tricks on you