Mixed Feelings
Here in TWDG(or any kind of media with a following), we each have things that we love for reasons that seem likable to use and things that we absolutely loathe because it presses a button that triggers a pet peeve or something to that effect. However, there are sometimes things that we find ourselves conflicted on, whether they fit either category or not.
Who are plot points that you want to outright love but some things hold them back a little?
What are traits in characters you think you should hate that make you like them on some level or vice versa?
Why do you find yourself getting conflicted on considerable story elementes?
And/or other questions that I'm too lazy to come up without retreading my ground!
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[TRASHED] Sorry. This is "not really the place for that".
Ava's characterization shift
While definitely a case of Characterization Marches On(Kenny, Larry, Jane?) rather than any overt contradiction(Rebecca, Tripp, Joan), Ava's deamonor seemed to have soured a bit between her introduction and her appearance in modern day. Specifically, Ava in Episode 1.2 seemed laid back and unfailingly chummy, even inviting Clementine to dinner despite how rude/threatening she had determinately been towards her. In Above the Law though, she was pretty much a rock who David understandably refers to as "a fucking soldier," given her gruff and stolid attitude that made her seem a little too grumpy at times now that she's around other people besides Clementine and AJ. And the duller color scheme as well as briefly sounding less like Kari Walgren and more like your typical country sister were things I weren't really diggin either.
Thankfully, this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that she is at least one of the more reasonable characters in the cast, seemed like a polar opposite sidekick to David, still being able to have a few small funny moments, and she still shows hints of a tender/affable side around Clementine, AJ, and, for the brief time we see them together, Gabe.
Not really the place for that.
I can't see the original post because of the feed issue, but you can search for an older thread to post it in if none of the current ones will work.
You can also PM the information to me(if you still have it) and I can try and help you with that.
Same. I was actually way more interested in her relationship with Gabe then in Javier's relationship with David, Clementine, or even Gabe's relationship with Mariana.
Plus, we've focused so much on the dad parallels(even if Kenny and Javier were technically uncles) that the moms have thus far being very underplayed. Christa's disappearance and apparent subsequent forgotten nature in favor of repeatedly shilling Kenny doesn't help.
Either way: a character you that you otherwise dislike outside of certain aspects you really like or the other way around. Your choice.
Admittedly, these questions are very rough due to being cobbled together on the spot and being kept intentionally vague.
Have a like sir.
I admit, I got frustrated and deleted it when I realized I misread what you wanted on this thread.
I think there are more suitable threads for it. At the moment I don't think It's worth recreating the post, but thanks for understanding.
Okay then.
Episode 1.2 Ava hadn't gone through the terrible Winter where everyone lost loved ones.
Explains her less than chummy attitude in the present day.
Yeah, I kinda figured that eventually. One of the small handful of subtle traits/developement in the story.
I really thought the Carver storyline would amount to more. Talk about sloppy editing. The previews looked promising only for those scenes to not even be in the game! I thought we would be at the hardware store for more than part of an episode and interact and possibly develop relationships with characters other than Carver and his minions Bonnie and Troy. There was supposed to be some moral conflict here but the community was non evident and Carver was a slimeball with no redeeming qualities and a hulking mass of cliches. After the anticipation (and disappointment) of the first play I realised the episode is one big QTE to get out of Howes.
I wanted to like Jane and did but shes manipulative above all else and to the detriment of everyone but her and her agenda to make Clementine indepependent....of everyone but her. lol She put a child in the position of choosing between saving a disabled friend or letting her be eaten in front of her and shooting one of her guardians to save her selfish *ss who caused the fight! (Jane)
I think the writers wanted us to like and trust Bonnie and ultimately end up hating her for her betrayal. I dont mostly because its out of character with the direction her story was going and taking into consideration Luke's end and Mike also being out of character loosely it all seems like a last ditch attempt to make Kenny reach the boiling point by removing buffers between him and the equally radical Jane.
What are plot points that you want to outright love but some things hold them back a little?
Then, during and after the Tripp-Ava choice, no one except Clint thinks "Hey, maybe what Joan is doing isn't right?", especially if Ava, one of their own, is the one who dies.
If you choose to take the deal, the fact that David goes off the rails. However, he takes Clint hostage instead of Joan. I can understand where he is coming from, especially if Ava is the one to die, since Clint basically stabbed him in the back, but Clint wasn't the one who put Javi in a no-win situation.
Trying to push for a reconciliation between Javi and David. I feel this doesn't work because David, even before the outbreak, seemed to be everything he said Javi was, even after Javi (determinantly) proved otherwise. I wanted to try and make things work with David, but at the end of Episode 5, I just got fed up and fought him. And when he said "What do you have to say for yourself, brother?", the first thing that came into my mind (partially because I was slightly roleplaying as Javi) was "As far as I'm concerned, I have no brother."
That's a good point, actually. I can only assume the game assumes you bashed his head in.
Actually, the people are shocked and even start visibly protesting if that happens.
I can sorta accept this since Clint happened to be the closest one and David, being the philosophical sore loser he is, wanted to force Joan to surrender by doing so rather than walk away.
It's the alternative situation, where he decides to chase after Clint, who not only gave him and his family a chance to walk away peacefully after putting Joan in her place but also more or less gave him the opening he needed to have Javier shoot her, where I have a serious problem with him. It's like, gratitude?
Honestly, I couldn't tell who they were protesting at, especially with the game's habit of blaming Javi for every little thing.
I also meant to include the other soldiers in the mix too.
If he wanted Joan to surrender, then why didn't he go for Joan? She had (determinantly) already shown no regard for the lives of other New Frontier members.
I can agree with this, which in why, in my story change thread (https://telltale.com/community/discussion/117177/how-i-would-change-the-walking-dead-game-season-1-2-3-and-dlc), I gave much of Clint's role in episode 4 to Lonnie or Fern instead.
Because Clint was closer.
I might just have to check the thread out later.
Anyway, I actually do think it'd work somewhat with Lonnie given his chraracterization in his first appearance. The only issue is him getting the other mooks to stand down and overriding Joan.
Fern, on the other hand, kinda feels like a name out of the hat.
I kind of liked Joan as a villain when we first met her. Her character and problems actually made sense - she had to take from others to keep her own safe and fed. But then all of a sudden, like always, Telltale f$#$cked her up.
She went from a "I'm willing to negotiate, Javier. Try some of my black forest cake!"
to a "I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT!!!!111111"
like wtf? gg telltale
Yeah, same here. And unlike Carver, it was pretty clear that she wasn't supposed to be like that in her first appearance. But they decided to dramatically shift her character to have her be like that because plot.
Same problem with Tripp, actually.
yup. they should just make more episodes instead of rushing everything. they could've even made the episodes longer, but nah. just laziness on their part.
I forgot I made this fuckin thread. Good timing, too.
Well to be honest one of the things that pissed me off was that we really did not get a Clem and Ava scene when they were in Richmond....it does sorta strike me that Ava and Clem were friends and that there should have been some payoff for the build up.
The theory that Eleanor is Joan's lost daughter
One theory that popped up a couple of times after Above the Law was the idea that Joan and Eleanor were related due to their similar races and temperaments. I was among the few that didn't really subscribe to this idea for a number resaons. Well, as confirmed by @Alyssa_TTG in the AMA for From the Gallows, Eleanor (like Joan?) is Thai American and was indeed designed as Joan's daughter in an early version of the story before her character allegedly changed enough that this backstory no longer made sense.
This matter...confounds me a bit. Primarily because we had so little focus for Eleanor compared to the other characters that I don't understand. I mean she has more backstory than Tripp, but regardless I don't think none of what we know conflicts with that dummied out plot point. It was revealed near the end of Thicker than Water that Eleanor warned Joan that Javier was coming to turn the people of Richmond against her after having her suggestions for a more peaceful approach ignored. This twist felt really tacked on, as the setup for it was so miniscule and underplayed that even I completely missed it. So while I don't really care for it, the fact that she was supposed to be related to Joan would've made perfect sense, as it would give her parallel's to Javier's story arc and make her newfound investment in the people of Richmond understandably more personal. Also, Clementine's unexplained distrust of her in her introduction might've been a roundabout bit of Kenny-sense style foreshadowing of that through Clementine's bitterness caused by her grudge against the New Frontier.