Teased Canon Outcomes that were not to be
There has been a lot of speculation on what would have happened 1 or 2 games out if so-and-so hadn't died but what about choices that were technically possible, even seemed imminent, in the canon game? What if for instance Lee and Clem had been able to leave with Lilly or Clem with Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo? What if the boat wasn't stolen and you had to decide who to take and who to leave behind, knowing some of your friends might die. What would you do in these situations? Feel free to add more.
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Ooh, another great topic idea! What, did you and @Fangirl101 commune together with the same source of inspiration?
I'm guessing if you're counting the boat not being stolen, that opens the floodgates on other technicalities as well?
as long as it is an in-game event or dialogue that gave the illusion of choice or possibility of there being an imminent choice to be made. No what if so-and-so faked their death and shows up on a unicorn and Clementine was only dreaming crap. lmao
Okay then. Good to know.
There's always THOSE people.....I want to inspire discussion on scenarios that probably tempted the writers but for some reason they decided to take the game in another direction.
Teaming up with Arvo to find Jane. eNeME Mines and shit.
I wouldn't go with Lily or those filthy betrayers.
If Lily didn't steal the RV, I would've uncuffed her and wouldn't have done anything for her Killing Carley/Doug. I know Lee was mulling it over, what to do with her. But give me the choice, I'd just let her live with what she did.
If Mike and Bonnie didn't go with shitbird, the ending would've been way more awesome. (Thinking of an out of control fight between Kenny and Jane, with Mike yelling for them to break it up, trying to do it himself, bonnie holding AJ, crying, and Clem having to decide who lives or dies. Everybody goes to wellington afterwards)
If Vernon didn't steal that "god damned boat" then I(as Lee) would stay behind, being bit and all. That would leave Kenny, Christa, Omid, Ben(maybe he stays behind to look after it?) and Clem. I'd wave goodbye and take in the sunset.
What if Kenny became Carver?
I think it would've been pretty awesome. Just imagine seeing Kenny again, except this time he's got a machine gun, and he's doing some people hunting. Oh shit, screw Carver's 2nd intro. What if Kenny finds Clem at the Cabin? I wonder how he'd treat the situation. Like is Clementine more important than finding his "missing" people. Or is he willing to use Clem to find them, and not care what she thinks of him? Ooh shit, that would've been good, they should've gave that role to Kenny for sure. Not that Carver didn't rule or anything, cause he did.
Technically, it was Mike's plan, but whatever.
I'll rephrase: If Mike and Bonnie didn't betray us.
Better?
Better.
I can't see Mike and Bonnie going to Wellington honestly. Mike and Bonnie would be majorly disappointed if they found out that Wellington isn't taking anyone else in. I would've preferred if they all just went to Howe's since nobody was there and it still had some resources.
Admittedly, the idea of Jane, Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo going from having a heartfelt goodbye with Clementine to slowly setting their pissed off sights on the oblivious/careless Kenny as the gates close would've been a funny as hell ending.
If that happened I would gladly ditch Kenny/Jane to get that ending and annoy them.
Why would Arvo be there? You think he'd want to tag along? Or maybe Mike talks him into it? If I was Arvo I'd never want to see any of those people again. Besides the beatings, and the, what he thought was the murder of his sister. Why did Arvo hate Kenny and Clementine, but not Jane, Mike, and Bonnie? They were all in the same group. Mike and Bonnie were pulling triggers too. And Jane ended everything in 1 blow. You'd think he'd want to get revenge on everyone. Not just Clem, or Kenny. Kinda strange. I wonder what Mike was telling him.
Arvo hated Clementine at the beginning because Clementine shot his sister when he didn't know she turned. Also I don't think he didn't mean to hurt Clementine that much. When Arvo shot Clementine, I think he did it on accident as a mistake. Mike and Bonnie killed his men but it seems he forgave them for it. But it's still unclear who killed Arvo's sister in that fight. Mike and Bonnie were scared of Kenny and what he might do, so that's why they brought Arvo along. Honestly after seeing what Kenny did to Arvo, I think Arvo really had no choice. It was either get left behind by Kenny or leave with Mike and Bonnie. As for Jane, I don't know why Bonnie or Mike didn't offer her to leave with them.
I respectfully disagree.
Like I said, if I were Arvo, I'd prefer it that way. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd actually do Mike's plan, but alone. Take everything, and ditch everybody. Still have no clue why Mike and Bonnie chose Arvo, over Clem, and AJ. I mean I understand they had a problem with Kenny, but damn. Talk about cold blooded, they left them to fend for themselves, and left Clem for dead. Getting angry, ending post.
Because of Mike, basically. The plan to steal the truck and supplies was almost certainly his idea after all and it was Kenny saying he was just gonna abandon Arvo and getting upset when the others had other ideas about where to go(including Clementine suggesting they talk about it in the morning) that has him decide to go through with it. So logically, he and Bonnie still being with the group if they all went to Wellington together would entail bringing Arvo along.
There's also the fridge brilliance in the fact that Mike was likely right in thinking Arvo could probably help them find Wellington considering the numerous supply bags in his Unfinished House are the same as the ones Edith gives out in the Wellington Ending. The fact that I don't think Arvo was ever really privy to Kenny's plan partially due to being offscreen whenever he mentioned indirectly adds to it.
As for whether Arvo himself would've even gave a shit after fulfilling his end of the bargain, your guess is as good as mine.
I definitely agree when it comes to Jane, considering she's catalyst to their entire dynamic to begin with. It's another example of how she was clearly shoehorned into the finale due to obvious favoritism without too much thought going into actually making her unexpected return mean much.
As for Mike and Bonnie, I think it's number of things.
For one, there's personal responsibility. Arvo knows that Buricko was the one who made things excessively tense by not backing down when Arvo told him about the baby, opening fire when Clementine/Kenny/Kenny puts down Rebecca, and disregarding Kenny's attempt to flush him out using Arvo as a hostage. Plus, Jane does determinately indirectly points that he realizes he's also to blame for how things went to shit for both groups, hence part of why he offered to help amend things when the smoke cleared.
Secondly, Mike consistently defended him whenever Kenny started getting aggressive with him, acknowledged that he lost his sister despite all he did to look out for her, and even tried to console him beyond that, which naturally made him the one person in the group Arvo felt comfortable that he could trust after a while. Call it downplayed Stockholm or whatever, but a little bit kindness can go a long way. Though Bonnie is a little less arguable in that while she was definitely tight with Mike and sympathized with Arvo enough to occasionally made efforts to keep things peaceful, she also seemed like she never really trust him from the beginning and in fact verbally threatened him and Natasha during the confusion, so just chalk that up to her being a friend by association/convenience.
And finally, Arvo was never really an confrontational person to begin with and while he definitely has a more begrudging and even volatile side when pushed far enough, it was just more than convenient to cooperate with them in particular since they at least seemed to care about him on some level despite their differences.
You know, this is a sentiment I've seen multiple times and having looked into a good while back, I can say that there is determinately an indication of that. The problem is that the cinematogrophy doesn't really highlight it and goes by so fast that it's easy to miss.
Also, the fact that he shoots her no matter what. Even if it makes little to no sense for him to do so.
To be fair, Buricko was the dick who started and incessantly aggrevatted shit before eventually snapping himself and Arvo knows that.
It was most likely Kenny. Vitali/Buricko more or less says so when dismissing Kenny using Arvo as a hostage and it honestly makes more sense with the way the story direction was rigged handled.
With that said, it's possible that Bonnie simply popped her when Buricko opened fire just before she ducked into the woods.
I always took it that either they may have or Jane simply figured/overheard that they would run out on them and didn't care enough to really see it as a problem. It was when she learned they were gonna steal the truck along with most of the supplies before Arvo shot Clementine that she realized she underestimated them.
You make some good points. Arvo losing his sister was pretty Earth shattering, for him. Not having anyone else, I guess he could be accepting of Mike's extended hand. Not sure why Mike had a soft spot for Arvo, I still don't actually. But I guess I understand. I actually forget how old Arvo is. I actually don't know much of anything about Arvo. He seemed lost the 1st time we saw him. Lost as in not sure of his actions. He seemed paranoid before seeing Clem, and his hand was shaking a lot when he drew on her. Maybe he was a decent kid before he met Clementine.
Mike seemed to be a very camaraderie based character in contrast to Jane and kids/youth in particular were a soft spot with him, as demonstrated with Clementine, Sarah, and AJ beforehand. I think it's a safe bet that when he saw Arvo, he saw a meek kid who was in a messed up situation start to finish rather than just someone who almost got them killed and those instincts naturally took prevalence for better or worse.
Unfortunately, that was kinda the point at first. Arvo(and the Russians in general) was supposed to be a member of an opposing group that has his own agenda that somewhat conflicts with the group's current situation and the nebulousness around him makes it ambiguous as to whether he's trustworthy when he's the appointed master of your fate for a few minutes. Once that was over, his role as Kenny's prisoner who lost his sister took precedence over learning anything else about him despite unofficially joining the group for the finale.
There are hints and little clues around to construe something about his origins, but it's very vague and contextual.
Or maybe he was even a great-ish kid before the country went to shit. But then again, I think that applies to most survivors.
>when your character disappears from the story and people forget you were determinant
I didn't forget!
It would have been interesting to see how events would have played out if Molly hadn't left when she did. Perhaps she agrees with Lee that she's earnt a place on the boat, may be she just wants to stay another night with company.
She definitely would have gone out of the house with Lee to search for Clementine. Could her being there have stopped Lee from getting bitten, perhaps she would have been the one to get the chomp. Maybe nothing would change and we'd just get another person to come help us.
If Christa was in the hole, Molly could have helped her out and possibly gotten out using her climbing axe. Meaning we wouldn't have lost Kenny at that point.
Of course would Lee have been so willing to do his march through the Walkers if he wasn't bitten, thereby not finding out that they could get past them by rubbing walker guts all over themselves.
It's amazing to think how events would have changed if Molly had just stuck around. I wish she had, she was one of the better characters in the season.
I think some of this works more appropriately in this thread.
Yeah, I don't know how the heck he forgot that.
Also, Lee and Molly had a lot of respect for one another. She told him about her sister when she didn't have to. There was a ton of chemistry for sure. I remember their goodbye was really sweet. Could've been a cool romance.
Not better than CarLee but ya know.