Realistically how would you have "fixed" A New Frontier?
I see that a lot of people on these forums do not like A New Frontier and how the Season panned out. I however enjoyed A New Frontier and I appreciated the effort that went into it (I am not saying that people do not consider it but I think it is overlooked). And I want to say thanks to anyone and everyone who comment(s) on this as I do like to read your comments 
Ok Imagine you are a writer for Telltale who is working on The Walking Dead Realistically how would you have fixed A New Frontier? Take last minute rewrites, time restraints, strict deadlines into consideration. What would you do to try and make the game enjoyable for fans of Telltale Games' The Walking Dead?
This discussion isn't some sort of dig towards the writers or anybody associated with Telltale from past and present. It is also not directed towards forum users who do not like how the game turned out. I am genuinely curious as to how would you change how A New Frontier turned out.
I am sorry if this comes across as an aggressive dig towards anyone affiliated with the game or people who do not like A New Frontier
Comments
I thought this thread already existed?
EDIT: Okay, different person. Ah well, it isn't hurting anything, so oh le do it!
I made a forum post way back after Eps 1 and 2 released on how I would have fixed ANF, mostly how to connect all the endings to be fixed, however my original idea involves some effort (which Telltale wont do) so it probably wouldn't happen but I do have another idea.
Idea 1:
This idea for the endings would pretty much mean all main characters would be taken by the new frontier. Looking at my totally amazing diagram thing, basically choose your ending. Say you are with Kenny, a situation plays out until we are taken by The New Frontier. But because you chose Kenny you wont see Tripp taken from Wellington because your Clem wasnt there. Basically every situation would happen, just depending if Clem and determinatly Kenny and Jane were there too. This is a little difficult to explain quickly, but basically it would be a realistic way to introduce everyone and have endings matter, however it takes too much effort for Telltale to do, so for what I would do now:
Idea 2: Again for Season 2 endings to matter. Basically I think they should have just gone with this. You have Kenny? Kenny stays. You have Jane? Jane stays. Wellington, Edith stays. If you are alone however, thats when you meet Javier. He has no family though, its just him. Now everyone has a "character" so everyone's playthrough has either Kenny, Jane, Edith, or Javier. This would mean they dont need to die because they would all fill that role. It would kinda be like just replacing them with a "skin" but they would function the same except for a few differences. And obviously Clem would be the main character. The family aspect of ANF would be dropped, and we'd replace it with the plot just being The New Frontier took Aj. This is where we'd also meet other characters like Tripp ect, and see why they also hate the New Frontier. Even for Javier to make sense for staying with Clem it could be reveled that if he is in your game his family was also taken (But have no major role at all, every very minor) From there I guess it would kinda play out the same, but the New Frontier group would need a lot more work, to be honest probably just remove the giant community and just make them a small group we chase to rescue Aj.
Okay, here's what I came up with:
Off the record here, here's some stuff I would've done if I were making the game:
Misc.
Part 1
Part 2
Above the Law
Thicker than Water
From the Gallows
Pretty interesting, definitely gives a more constant story. Im not sure about Kenny just "dying" though. It be kinda weird for him to kinda just be like "Im sick ;(" but thats not really a big issue.
Also why the specific people for a scream?
Yeah, I expect a fair amount of people to take issue with that, but that's honestly what I felt would've been the most fitting way to officially write out his character at that very late point.
Just me being overly detailed about the vision. It should voices of some characters that the audience would be able to recognize among the New Frontier and the ordering of them is vaguely significant.
Not that it has happened yet, but as a preemptive heads up/reminder, please focus on the content and not the creators. Please don't this into a thread to talk about specific writers, and instead keep the discussion focused on the story.
How I would fix ANF first more time playing as Clem, two make the season 2 flashbacks better and longer.
I was gonna comment on this, but I don't really watch soap operas, so I'll just have to let your word speak something.
And vice versa.
That sounds kinda confusing, tbh. Not to mention a pain in the ass to program for and follow along.
Wouldn't "make the opening flashback playable" as well as the second part be easier to say?
Not trying to be Douchey McNitpick over here, just thought it was a little complicated.
"We get you hot and sour soup while you wait for NOODLE!"
I'd actually be pretty interested in community politics if they were more elaborate than "Richmond is full of raiding and conniving douchebags." I would've liked to see a scenario similar to the feud between the Fairbanks and Norma's group except on a more grand scale.
About talking with Clem and Javi like Rhys and Fiona.
It was totally possible, but I guess they wanted Clem to be playable in flashbacks no matter what. Also I agree I think it would fit that well. Having Clem talk to Javi about Lee and S1 and S2 would have been great in general but it doesnt happen. (I mean ANF can determinatly have Lee mentioned 0 times, only times you hear Lee is the Kenny flashbacks and if you make Aj's middle name Lee in the Jane flashback) So its really disappointing seeing Telltale just forget how important Lee was to Clem.
Also I think Telltale didnt want Clem and Javi to talk like Rhys and Fiona because that required some effort, and Tales from the Borderlands has it at the very end because back then they had some actual passion for their projects. o shit ziNGer BoiS
Well fundamentally ANF was broken from the start. Your first choices have you making decisions as if you knew Javi and David. That is not fair to the player. I mean at what point did they decide...hey new characters...but make like the players know exactly what is up with them. It hurt the entire season.
I have written how I would have done it...I would have made the season all about Javi and Kate and the kids...each episode covering an adventure from each of the 4 years....so each episode the kids are a little older and things happen in between that they will reference....heck I might even put out an adventure blog to fill in some of those moments to make the wait between episodes easier to take. All of this is in service for when the next season rolls around...Clem and Javi and Kate and the kids are known.
Here is the season synopsis.
Episode 1: For All Seasons
We start as the beginning of ANF started.which I thought was extremely well done. The first episode would deal with Hector turning and the 3 Months staying in the house. Dealing with bandits that try to take their stuff who were friends of David and Kate...Kate would save Javi's life....end with them leaving the house
Episode 2: Time to Live
Would finish out the first year of the apocalypse the van gets a flat and Javi goes for a new set in an auto shop. Kate has her hands full with the kids as Gabe runs off because he sees a car that looks like the one his father left in. (You would play as Kate as you have to save Gabe...bonding moment for Kate and the Kids)
Episode 3: Time to Die
Year 2 of the apocalypse...the kids are growing and finding clothes is an adventure in itself as is teaching them how to survive when Kate and Javi themselves are just barely making it. They meet a man name Eric who is dying of cancer...he teaches Kate and Javi some survival tricks.(This is a character building episode) Eric asks only one thing...they watch over him and make sure he does not turn when he dies. We learn Kate's mother died of cancer. Javi and Kate share their feelings for each other.
Episode 4: Time to Laugh
Even in the apocalypse there are worse things than walkers....carnies. A community made up of people who are used to living on the road..this traveling group sets up for one hell of a carnival. But in the apocalypse nothing is as it seems...the bright lights and music draws the walkers to the carnies who try and thin out the herds so communities can grow. The entertainment gets deadly when a hurricane hits just as the largest herd ever seen descends on them. Purely an adventure episode giving the kids some time to enjoy the carnival atmosphere (stay away from the 100% all natural hot dogs). Year 3 ends
Episode 5: Time to Cry
The beginning of the 4th year of the apocalypse and we find Javi and Kate sleeping together in an abandoned hotel...outside of a Six Flags...the kids remember a time when their mother was alive and they stayed at the same hotel. Flashbacks to show a softer side of David. A gang of Bandits try to catch Kate and the Kids...The Hotel burns as the Garcia clan tries to escape the bandits and a herd of burning walkers....Final scene shows them on the road passing a sign that reads Prescott Airfield.
You can determinantly have Lee mentioned in the Ava flashback in episode 3 i think.That was cool.
I'm not too familiar with Borderlands outside of Tiny Tina and Fishstick, as well as knowing who Mad Moxxi and Handsome Jack are.
She can also mention him during the Thicker than Water flashback.
Id highly HIGHLY recommend playing Tales from the Borderlands by Telltale. Its such a great game, and is honestly the last Telltale game that felt like Telltale really put a ton of heart and soul into. Rhys and Fiona are the two playable characters and main protagonist. During the game you alternate between Rhys and Fiona but unlike Clem and Javi they are evenly played as with them not being exclusive to flashbacks or anything. But for example playing as Rhys in one scene, you can talk to Fiona who will work like an NPC because you are currently playing as Rhys. Without spoiling, towards the end of the game you talk as both Rhys and Fiona at the same time, so you say one thing to Rhys as Fiona, then play as Rhys to reply to what you said as Fiona, and then play as Fiona to reply to what you said as Rhys.
Anyway, play Tales from the Borderlands, its a great game, you dont need to know anything about past borderlands games to understand it or have fun !
You are like a poet. This is friggin good. Wonder if it actually would've been feasible, though.
MOOD WHIPLASH!
Well it is what should have happened...I will never understand them setting us down into a family unit and having us make choices as if we knew what was what. The frustrating thing is that there is a lot of good in ANF. I mean the opening scene with Mariana and the reanimated papa......I mean it was solid....even though we had no idea who these folks where....now what if we had time to get to know them...say put 30 minutes set before...just start with that Domino game...2 brothers and their father....learn a little about their lives and the Father's sickness.
It is these human moments that make up TWD in the comics. Yes Horrible things happen...and to a lot of good people...but why should I give one shit if I do not have investment.
As for Episode 4...I figured there needs to be a lighter episode that offers some fun....because episode 5 is about the worst monsters in TWD...humans, they are there to rape and kill...in that order...the carnies are a group of people who in life before the apocalypse are looked down at. It give them a chance to show that noble actions come from every walk of life. Plus it gives the kids a chance to be kids in that episode.
I appreciate all the comments on this discussion so far! Great job everyone!
I agree with @Kennyshouladiedins1 with how the game expects you to care about characters who are practically complete strangers.
I thought that the whole "being in a city community" and the idea of Clem "buying a case of bullets from a guy" felt less like TWD and more like Fallout or something.
I thought the earlier seasons did a fantastic job with the idea of the zombie apocalypse being about what's left behind in an abandoned world, with finding resources and relying on the few people around.
All of season 3's atmosphere with ginormous communities of faceless strangers, makeshift military-looking equipment, lots and LOTS of buildings locking you in to what looked like a crowded urban background. Idk, it just felt wrong.
It felt like it went from "we're a handful of people making by in empty suburban towns and forests" to "man, this city of people has a lot of people in it. Let's live here". You went from siphoning gas from broken cars in S1, to riding in vans, trucks and motorcycles in S3. Where the hell did all this gas come from?
I get that with TWD, there's always that hierarchy of leaders and whoever in a group, and that "internal politics" helps to add in conflict, but it feels like TNF took both concepts way too literally. With less "internal" and more "politics". Like it felt as if there were REAL politics. A person was preaching to a crowd on an outside stage and everything.
I thought there were too many characters for evenly distributed development, too many buildings, and too many unlikely scenarios.
I would've made the pace slower and the groups of people smaller. I think that'd help point the story more inward, focused on the characters and how they handle the situations they wind up in. And I'd also make the environment WAY more spacious and barren looking, for you to expect a whole lot of nothing only for something all the more unexpected to emerge from around the corner! And this is more of a personal thing, but I'd have Marianna and Gabe switch places. A young girl having her older brother killed seems like it'd have more potential for branching, Telltale-patented character growth than just having Gabe around. I don't like Gabe.
So i'm not the only one who thought about that.
I agree. And I think Mariana would've had a bigger effect on Clementine than Gabe did. Their conflicting views on whether to get involved in a fight or not could bring up some interesting commentary. Mariana being the peacekeeper, and Clem now being ready to kill anyone who wrongs her. This could've helped Clem see who she used to be. I'm not sure how much that would do for her, but just having her notice how much she's changed is an important concept to me. And plus having Clem convince her to at least be able to defend herself and train her to use a gun would've been awesome to see.
Honestly your idea was pretty neat. Thank you for taking the time to comment
I can get behind that comment. Tales From The Borderlands is an amazing game! Choices matter in the game and character interactions are humorous and meaningful
I mentioned Lee in my playthrough during the flashback. When I see Lee's name in the choice selection I jump at it!
I am sorry if this discussion turns into that at some point. If it does then please feel free to close the discussion
Eh, I'm not familiar with Fallow and I just thought Star Wars.
Eh, I heavily disagree.
Subjective and objectively speaking, I really didn't care for Mariana and one of the reasons that has remained so for the most part is because her character was so superficial, cheap, and redundant, especially at this point in the series.
Gabe at least had a number of complicated traits for Telltale to explore and it helps that he ended up being one of the most developed character of the installment, imo. (Not that it would've been a hard pick, mind you.)
Hey~
I found above suggest is very interesting and great.
But I found those will only be good for improvement (not fixing) as long as we don't link up two major thing.
If not mentioning two of them,
it will be off-topic as you either talking Problems or Ideas Only. Not Fix.
I found most comment spark on idea(which is very good), but not fixing anything.Pardon me
Before fixing anything, we need to pin-point the problem and repair it
Although I do see comment mentioned problems and ideas,
not much comment relating them, meaning no solution, no fix
Well, take Mariana discussion (started by DabigRG) as example.
If DabigRG stated why Mariana is problem, how removing Mariana is effective to fixing A New Frontier,
the discussion will be more focus.
Hopefully I can redirect everyone before commenting, Thank you.
P.S. Also, I am sorry if I offended anyone, I don't mean to
Not forced Clem in to it. Let her come by the town looking for her little baby at the end so they could do the whole continuing her story after. So she wouldn't feel so forced. Every time I saw her I couldn't help but think of a Cash Cow. I enjoyed the season but really wanted it to be a stand-alone thing.
Minority, I know. Not trying to start an argument. Just giving my personal opinion on the matter.
First of all this list is not in order but here is what I would've done.
I know that TellTale will make The Final Season awesome and I am waiting for their reveal of a trailer or screenshot.
Nah, it was better that Joan wasn't just Evil White Man#356. A well written [anti]villain is one where that you can understand their reasons for their villainy and perhaps even sympathize with, even if you ultimately don't agree with what their doing to achieve their goal. If anything, Joan's characterization became an issue when her first truly villainous onscreen action was handled in such a hamfisted manner.
The point about people being exiled was almost certainly gonna be a plot point before the later rewrites.
Clint was against having Javier in as well considering he was actively sought out someone who knew anything about him besides David and found him to be unfit for being a trustworthy denizen within The System. Joan just gave the order to have him removed.
Though her overruling is somewhat questionable in theory, it was established that she carries enough clout(or retroactively, possible fear in Lingard) to have the others trust her judgement, not to mention organize the raids carried out by David's Lieutenants in the first place.
You pick my point out of all the posts to use as an example. I don't know if that should be seen as a cavil or a complement.
(Admittedly, what started out as a small sticky of "here are some key details I'd change/add to improve things" turned into a long list of "this is how I would've done things." When it rains, it pours.)
Anyway, I looked over the Original Post and I didn't really see any prompting for explanations behind any suggestions and inputs.
However, I do believe that going into how these fixes would affects things inside and maybe out could benefit the thread's frequency.
The answer would take an hour and I've seen some generally good ideas in respect to how it would be handled, but nothing that makes me want to "play the ideas". So what I'll put is, if I was an exec. and someone said, "what do you require from ANF" how would I answer.
1.) Decisions from Season 2 have to be "relevant" in Season 3.
If you look at one of my older posts before it came out I predicted that both characters would be killed off and even gave this ideas because I knew Clementine would have a smaller role. Basically the decisions made in Season 2 reflect in an uncontrolled way the Clementine cut scenes in Season 3, but those decisions would directly effect how the Javi story happens and how tough your decisions are. A perfect example is, if you don't have Kenny or Jane around you can't accomplish a certain thing so Javi doesn't have that option when trying to fix his problem because it never happened. If you helped Kenny for then a car may be moved out of the way and if you helped Jane you have her blade to cut through a doorway. Some of these little touches would be hardly visible.
2.) Kenny and Jane, undetermined
Again, predicted their death but I gave a suggestion and that was pretty clear, at the end we have to get Clementine alone with AJ and give her direction by leaving Kenny and Jane's fate ambiguous. In this game she doesn't have direction, she's just out there and wanting to leave, but there's no motivation until we find out AJ is alive. So why is she fighting to get away from everyone? If we leave the story that she lost Kenny or Jane or trying to find the people of Wellington to get back then her motivation makes more sense. This could be due to a fight or somehow they got separated, but the point is that Clem is alone and is motivated to seek them out. Then when AJ's plot shows up it's now clear why she is so broken about losing everyone and we really feel that angst. Instead we got a snuff segment and her disconnecting from everyone so we disconnected too.
3.) What's wrong with AJ?
This plot really really urked me. If you see what Vancomycin treats you're like, wtf. Why would a doctor be shocked that he won't recover. Who wrote that note! I was done with the whole thing by the time I got to Episode 3. But what if the choices you made in Season 2 directly effected the sickness he has? It has to be evident and pressing. When Clem is in the mobile home thing and Ava asks her about coming for a free meal and we hear AJ cough once it doesn't push me to say, "yup, we're running for help." But if he's got a determined illness and Ava says, "we have a doctor" Clem can hate all she wants but she knows she has to go and it makes sense.
There's a lot more, but I'll leave it there for now.
Here's my suggestion to TellTale. Have third party writers play the game or read the script or whatever and have them give input. It's tough when you're looking at your own stuff to find the holes in the story and get it fixed, but there's no reason we need another senseless Omid death. We just don't, and I see that coming in Season 4.
It was believed back in December through February that she was actually trying to get to Richmond in the first place because that's where AJ was being kept. So when Paul revealed that the New Frontier occupied it recently, she had a small panic attack and eventually decided that she can't go into Richmond now, not with the risk of Max or David recognizing her.
Of course, this was likely changed during the rewrites before Above the Law and it was changed to have AJ be presumed dead from getting sick.
Actually, Dr. Lingard did prognose due to his personal "curse" that AJ wouldn't make it and told Clementine that the Vancomycin woudn't help when she tried to steal it.
Following up on applying @a0611076 's suggestion, one major change I've suggested for fixing A New Frontier was the [total(?)] removal of Mariana Garcia from the plot [proper].
First, let's address the collective problem with her(as I'm not sure from whence he/she claimed I did so): the primary story is supposed to be about Javier [still?] learning to be a responsible man by supporting the family connected to him through his absent older brother, with whom he had a complicated, somewhat abusive relationship to begin with. And for much of development, this was comprised of his trophy wife Kate, an erudite stoner turned conflicted housewife who developed feelings for Javier himself, and his son Gabe, a conflicted youth who both over-idolizes and takes a lot after his dad the soldier while being somewhat neutral towards his ball-playing uncle initially. Well, what challenge is there for the player to even try to achieve the goal set for them if you give them a very easy out through the niece who such an outlier for a number of reasons?
Sure, in Season 2, many found themselves gravitating towards Pete, and he ultimately played a similar role there, but the difference was that he too carried his shortcomings that made him another survivor within his group first and foremost(even if they aren't as notable or even noticeable as his fellow group members) and his presence actually had enough of an effect on his group--thus, when he gets a death sentence, he determinately spends his approach with death reminiscing on his life, makes an effort to secure his concern for the people he's leaving behind, and his death has consequences on the group format and behavior moving forward. By comparison, Mariana doesn't really do much even with the additional screentime, scarcely interacts with her "brother" and "step-mom" while never even speaking of her "dad," gets killed at the start of a fight sequence that ends an episode regardless, and what the effect of her death on the people not really mattering for the most part since things would've played out more or less the same given the circumstances, though Kate is admittedly a considerable exception in hindsight(more on her in a bit).
I also feel this could give the player more of drive to oppose the New Frontier not because they feel like they're supposed to avenge, but because they can choose to do so, dealing with what they perceive to be a problem. Marianna's death was one of the main things that made the conflict seem a little too simplistic, even with Badger standing out as being the worst among them, for better or worse. Despite the hostile first impressions, the majority of Four Sects of Richmond aren't really this wholly villainous force that feels like it needs to be taken down initially. We're repeatedly shown that despite many of them appearing to be little more than thugs with tatoos, they are lawful thugs with tatoos who carry their own share of tender feelings and moral standards amongst them. He at least is deemed so for not only ignoring these traits but also going way further with what they were secretly allowed to do out the backdoor.
On a more statistical note, her existence also has the effect of taking away some good spotlight for other characters for no particularly constructive reason. Gabe and Kate are far more important to the story and yet they mostly just deliver exposition while Mariana gets to have most of the spotlight and sentimental value with Javier, limiting the opportunity for the players to really establish their place with them early on. And then there's Clementine herself, who the story generated a fair amount of hype and speculation regarding the dynamic between her and Javier, which seemed like it wasn't gonna be very friendly at first. But a major undertone of their relationship is how Clementine is more or less a substitute for his fallen niece and an early determinant scene between the two is largely spent burying her and establishing that she has history with the New Frontier. It doesn't help that, compounded with how their relationship throughout the rest of the story is paced and the fact that her flashback sequences are really short, she also becomes pretty superfluous to the plot herself after Above the Law.
Going back to the point about Kate being the most affected by Mariana's death, she is where her "step-daughter" rings out as being redundant in the immediate context. Shortly after Mariana is shot(dead in the released version, seriously wounded at one point), Kate feels the motherly impulse to get to her and ends up catching a bullet in the gut just after reaching her. This ended up taking Kate out of commission for a while, motivating the need for Javier to call the shots in guiding the maturation of the self-critical Gabe and leading the group, now joined by Clementine and three surviving Prescottites, in traveling to Richmond to get help in both saving her life and dealing with the New Frontier's latest and most devastating Raid. Now while that is an arguably much more interesting middle-ground that I'm quite frankly surprised Telltale didn't go with, a crucial question is still being begged: what was the actual point of Mariana?
Seriously, Mariana's death and Kate being Worf'd happen within less than 15 seconds of each other. The next episode sees Gabe assist with Kate's surgery despite his clear disturbance, leave the gates afterward to take out his frustrations on a lone walker, and then accuse himself of being at fault for not "being a man" in the diligent sense despite the group being ambushed by a presumably unauthorized stakeout from Badger's Company, with the undercurrent that he's being driven by guilt and regret rather than simple ambition. However, the slight issue with this is that the source isn't a very specific: is he regretting not being able to protect Mariana from Badger's stakeout or is it guilt for the hard time he gave Kate over the years despite her efforts to be a [somewhat] responsible guardian herself? Not that it can't realistically be both, in fact that alone could've justified her existence, but the fact that Mariana isn't sold very well as having a considerable place in his heart is very baffling considering the fairly late change from being Gabe's cousin through Hector to being his sister was most likely meant to make her death that much more personal for him(and by extension, David).
So, concluding with a sum up of the effects of simply removing Mariana from the equation altogether, it removes an ultimately unnecessary character, gives more time to establish dynamics with Kate & Gabe and even Clementine in Part 1, makes the relationship with Clementine more special by removing in-universe Goldfish factor, makes the conflict with The New Frontier more definitively complicated, generalizes the Feud with Badger to emphasize his presence as a menace, balances out “rivalry” between Kate and Gabe/David just a smidge to focus on their different approaches, and most importantly helps to creates more consolidated storyline about family.
PS. Sorry about the length. Didn't mean to go on that long.
I think Mariana was supposed to be less of a character and more a way to show this is a normal family. Mom and Dad, boy and girl, typical ideal family. They really sped up the whole "Javier is a normal person, he gives no shits about being there for his family but then BAM, he's had to stay with them for 4 years. HERO. Wait, wha" idea.
Eh, I guess? I don't know man, it still doesn't really help with the fact that she really didn't need to be there
.
Like, isn't the whole point of the outbreak aside from certain isolated denizens that nothing is truly normal anymore?
Okay, I know this mostly just you being you, but I honestly don't/didn't get that.
I feel you on the Mariana thing, that was what I was trying to say. I think that's what they were trying to go for, but it's been 4 years. They basically kept this family in stasis until the game came out, then they went full watch this tragedy. Uncle Hector got bit at the start, and other than that they've made it through completely unscathed, typical puberty and adoptive parent issues and all. Nothing actually seems to have happened during this time. They're even traveling in the same magical van.
As for Javier, you have to admit all that development off screen doesn't benefit him at all. Between the first flashback when his unemployed ass couldn't even make time to be there for his father, and all the times his brother, who's he's living with after being thrown out of the MLB, references how he really wasn't around for his family after he made it. Then dead people start walking, he's still living with his brothers family, and clings to the only thing he has left. Again. They just jump from this incompetent guy who relies on the love of his brother and parents to an equally incompetent guy who we have to buy as this devoted protector.
I think that the main purpose of Mariana was to show how easy it is to lose the people you care about and it serves as a motivation for Javier to do everything he can to prevent that from ever happening to his family again. Though it wasn't as impactful as it could have been since the first two episodes were so short and everybody in the new caset was so undeveloped.
Bumping this for convenience.
Copy and Paste from a separate window, @Noburu-Suijin!