I think TT missed the boat. Not every decision tree should have her turning in to some heartless "badass" by s3. Like if you ended s2 with Clem being the pinnacle of current society, that should have altered her character quite a bit from what it actually was in s3. Some would say that losing AJ and whoever she happened to be with would cause this, but I couldn't disagree more. In e4 you get a flashback with Ava visiting you after they took AJ. You can (determinant) promise Ava that you will not lose that hope or whatever it is she saw in you. Thinking about it this should have a major impact on how Clem acts through s3 as it shows her mindset going forward about losing AJ, but its in e4 so good luck with that happening. Maybe they should have made the first ep of s3 just about the flashbacks and then tailored Clems personality to how they played out.
I think this exposed a real weakness with ANF: we didn't get to know enough of the Garcias to side against Clementine. In order to level out the decisions regarding Clem, we would have needed a full season (or at least a strong mini-series) to build connection with the Garcias (and I could have sworn there was a rumor that the Garcias were supposed to be the miniseries instead of Michonne). It should have taken place prior to the events of ANF (maybe during the events of Season 2). With that, we as Javier can build that parental relation with Mariana and Gabe, establish before hand our closeness, if you will, with Kate, understand what made the Garcias a capable group to survive the apocalypse by themselves, and other likewise connections with our new cast. It will give us more time from Clem so that her reemergence into the story feels fresh. Also, bonding with Mariana beforehand will make her death much more painful, and now you can use the introduction of Clem as someone who could fill the void left by Mari. Now use making the choice to side with Clem over the family sort of has validation. Gabe's impression of Clem also has more emotional impact than just teenage hormones since the two will clearly share a connection; Clem losing her family and (presumed) AJ and Gabe losing his relatives and sister. Two young kids with holes in their heart find someone to fill it with.
Considering the vast majority sided with Clem even when she was doing things out of character debunks this. I mean did Telltale think everyo… morene is not going to side with the character everyone bought the game for? Guess they thought this game actually was going to have new comers lmao
I think this exposed a real weakness with ANF: we didn't get to know enough of the Garcias to side against Clementine. In order to level ou… moret the decisions regarding Clem, we would have needed a full season (or at least a strong mini-series) to build connection with the Garcias (and I could have sworn there was a rumor that the Garcias were supposed to be the miniseries instead of Michonne). It should have taken place prior to the events of ANF (maybe during the events of Season 2). With that, we as Javier can build that parental relation with Mariana and Gabe, establish before hand our closeness, if you will, with Kate, understand what made the Garcias a capable group to survive the apocalypse by themselves, and other likewise connections with our new cast. It will give us more time from Clem so that her reemergence into the story feels fresh. Also, bonding with Mariana beforehand will make her death much more painful, and now you can u… [view original content]
Clem is cool and all, but I enjoy new characters and different ways to explore a universe. I'd rather beg for a character's return than have them milked dry.
Clem is cool and all, but I enjoy new characters and different ways to explore a universe. I'd rather beg for a character's return than have them milked dry.
It also doesn't help that they tried their hardest to disconnect Clementine from the events of Season Two with the exception of AJ who makes a few small appearances. At this point it feels like Telltale is trying to bury their past mistakes, they didn't have to kill off Kenny, Jane and Edith, they chose to do so because they knew that despite fan backlash it means there'd be no reason for them to put in the extra effort on those characters.
It's really disheartening seeing The Walking Dead go downhill with Season Two and even farther in A New Frontier, whilst their other game series are actually improving and show us that they can make good quality stories, longer episodes and choices that have lingering effects that feel like they truly matter.
Hopefully with the changes made recently to the company they'll be doing allot better. I've got hope they can make great games but I'm just afraid for The Walking Dead's finale at this point.
100% agree, my favorite part of Season 1 was how this was a story that was completely stand alone (aside from Glen and Hershel cameos) from… more the comics but told a story that I found to be way WAY more compelling to play. Its just sad knowing how well the series was doing without trying to connect and be like the comics, just for Telltale to go "But what if, we were more like the comics, something no one is asking for?" and just watching Season 3 just be a disappointing mess.
As happy as I am Clem is going to be the focus of Season 4, the damage is honestly done. Clem is the focus of Season 1 and Season 2, then Season 3 goes "oops" and now Season 4 she is back to the focus. Thats already really clunky, plus Clem doesnt even feel like Clem anymore, so I think it'll be strange. I really hope Season 4 is going to be great, but theres always going to be that extremely clunky chapter of ANF just showing up and causing a hiccup in the series.
This actually saddens me, as it practically ruins apart of the game - decision making. Of course people are going to side with who should be the main character and was for the past two seasons, she's the face of Telltale's The Walking Dead, Javier is uninteresting compared to her and we have no attachment towards him or his family (doesn't help that allot of them had negative traits depicted early on and they killed off one quickly).
I'm still angry about the information that was given to us prior to the release of the game - Clementine and Javier are main characters? Clementine's role is secondary at most. 52 starting points? Yeah, right. Episode one is too big that it had to be split into two? It barely reached the length of a usual episode of The Walking Dead Season One.
Considering the vast majority sided with Clem even when she was doing things out of character debunks this. I mean did Telltale think everyo… morene is not going to side with the character everyone bought the game for? Guess they thought this game actually was going to have new comers lmao
I feel the same way. Season 4 feels like its just a "cover up." Its just so dumb. Why bother taking the focus OFF Clem just to put it BACK on Clem? The whole idea of ANF is still mind numbing. To this day I honestly think Telltale just got high as fuck and made the first 2 eps of this game in 3 weeks.
It also doesn't help that they tried their hardest to disconnect Clementine from the events of Season Two with the exception of AJ who makes… more a few small appearances. At this point it feels like Telltale is trying to bury their past mistakes, they didn't have to kill off Kenny, Jane and Edith, they chose to do so because they knew that despite fan backlash it means there'd be no reason for them to put in the extra effort on those characters.
It's really disheartening seeing The Walking Dead go downhill with Season Two and even farther in A New Frontier, whilst their other game series are actually improving and show us that they can make good quality stories, longer episodes and choices that have lingering effects that feel like they truly matter.
Hopefully with the changes made recently to the company they'll be doing allot better. I've got hope they can make great games but I'm just afraid for The Walking Dead's finale at this point.
The worst part about ANF was the lying before AND after the game released. It was one thing for ANF to suck, but for Telltale to blatantly lie about it hurt even more. Let's not forget the extremely immature AMA where Telltale either gave pointless info, or replied childishly. (The infamous one is where they replied by typing the sounds of what a bell makes which you cant even type here without having your commented deleted because it became so infamous as everyone made fun of Telltale for acting like children)
This actually saddens me, as it practically ruins apart of the game - decision making. Of course people are going to side with who should be… more the main character and was for the past two seasons, she's the face of Telltale's The Walking Dead, Javier is uninteresting compared to her and we have no attachment towards him or his family (doesn't help that allot of them had negative traits depicted early on and they killed off one quickly).
I'm still angry about the information that was given to us prior to the release of the game - Clementine and Javier are main characters? Clementine's role is secondary at most. 52 starting points? Yeah, right. Episode one is too big that it had to be split into two? It barely reached the length of a usual episode of The Walking Dead Season One.
(The infamous one is where they replied by typing the sounds of what a bell makes which you cant even type here without having your commented deleted because it became so infamous as everyone made fun of Telltale for acting like children)
The worst part about ANF was the lying before AND after the game released. It was one thing for ANF to suck, but for Telltale to blatantly l… moreie about it hurt even more. Let's not forget the extremely immature AMA where Telltale either gave pointless info, or replied childishly. (The infamous one is where they replied by typing the sounds of what a bell makes which you cant even type here without having your commented deleted because it became so infamous as everyone made fun of Telltale for acting like children)
I was trying to find it, Im sure theres a screenshot somewhere I could dig up, but mods will most likely not allow it to stay up because I guess it falls under "singling out a staff member" also if I remember correctly the staff member deleted the entire thread because "things got out of hand" and we were being too "hostile." Im trying to remember exactly what it was, but someone posted something saying something along the lines of "This is Telltales vision" in which the staff member replied "DNG DNG DNG DNG" (its suppose to be an i) after not answering anyone's questions.
So basically Telltale made an AMA, didnt answer any questions, replied immaturely, then deleted it because we were mean in calling out the bullshit.
(The infamous one is where they replied by typing the sounds of what a bell makes which you cant even type here without having your commente… mored deleted because it became so infamous as everyone made fun of Telltale for acting like children)
I never saw that,can you still find it ?
Strangely enough I actually remember that somehow. Someone made an overly long post and another user remarked that the staff member mostly likely wouldn't respond to it because it was too long and got that response.
Honestly I wouldn't say all the AMAs gave pointless information. The one with the actual creative team after ANF finished was pretty insightful since their hands weren't tied due to the risk of spoiling future episodes. At least I was satisfied with the answers to my questions anyways. They were really mature in their answers too.
I was trying to find it, Im sure theres a screenshot somewhere I could dig up, but mods will most likely not allow it to stay up because I g… moreuess it falls under "singling out a staff member" also if I remember correctly the staff member deleted the entire thread because "things got out of hand" and we were being too "hostile." Im trying to remember exactly what it was, but someone posted something saying something along the lines of "This is Telltales vision" in which the staff member replied "DNG DNG DNG DNG" (its suppose to be an i) after not answering anyone's questions.
So basically Telltale made an AMA, didnt answer any questions, replied immaturely, then deleted it because we were mean in calling out the bullshit.
Oh well yeah the AMAs that didnt involve a certain fella went overall well. It was just his AMA's that were terrible because like you said, a long thought out criticism and asking why this happened, was skipped over for a useless question like "IS JAvI GoNnA hAvE a BasEbAlL bAt iN tHE nExT EpIsoDE?!?!?!" with an answer being something like "Maybe XD XD XD" and how when he did reply to real criticisms it was either an immature response, sarcasm, or just replying with something that didnt actually answer anything. I still remember the person ask why Telltale thought killing Kenny and Jane so fast was a good idea and pointed out how they felt it looked rushed due to Kenny and Jane's models looking horrible, with the staff member just saying "We think they look fine."
Strangely enough I actually remember that somehow. Someone made an overly long post and another user remarked that the staff member mostly l… moreikely wouldn't respond to it because it was too long and got that response.
Honestly I wouldn't say all the AMAs gave pointless information. The one with the actual creative team after ANF finished was pretty insightful since their hands weren't tied due to the risk of spoiling future episodes. At least I was satisfied with the answers to my questions anyways. They were really mature in their answers too.
Oh gosh, I actually remember reading that and I just closed the tab and face palmed. It's pretty clear that they spent very little to no effort at all on making Kenny's beard and Jane is suddenly larger? I'm pretty sure the Howe's flashbacks didn't take place that long after Season Two did it? At least it didn't seem like it. These two were main characters that were popular enough to ignite what was practically a war in these forums and people kept asking for them to return. I was foolish enough to have faith that Telltale would actually do them justice, I should've known that they'd just kill them off in the first episode.
But in all honesty, I feel the worst for those who got the Wellington Ending, your final decision practically didn't matter because Wellington fell (which I think was obviously gonna happen, cos Telltale), they only got one specific flashback and Edith had practically no character. At least the Alone ending made the most sense... which by the way, am I the only one still peeved off that all the endings lead to the same location at the same time? That makes no sense! Just like how Arvo's gang would confront Clementine at the same spot at the same time of day regardless of when the group decided to leave.
Oh well yeah the AMAs that didnt involve a certain fella went overall well. It was just his AMA's that were terrible because like you said, … morea long thought out criticism and asking why this happened, was skipped over for a useless question like "IS JAvI GoNnA hAvE a BasEbAlL bAt iN tHE nExT EpIsoDE?!?!?!" with an answer being something like "Maybe XD XD XD" and how when he did reply to real criticisms it was either an immature response, sarcasm, or just replying with something that didnt actually answer anything. I still remember the person ask why Telltale thought killing Kenny and Jane so fast was a good idea and pointed out how they felt it looked rushed due to Kenny and Jane's models looking horrible, with the staff member just saying "We think they look fine."
like, bruh
Kenny and Jane's first appearance was unacceptable, they both looked like shit. Ep 4 Kenny was acceptable but ep 4 Jane I still felt looked...off. Saddest part about there being another flashback for Kenny and Jane in ep 4 was it just confirmed Telltale legitimately thought they could get away with killing Kenny and Jane. We all know it only happened because backlash because if it was actually planned, it would have been obvious to have this scene first, not after. Sad part is, the ep 4 Kenny flashback is the only part of ANF I generally found well done, as well as actually feeling like I was playing Telltale's Walking Dead, despite the fact the scene was only there to try and win fans back over. (even the Jane's second flashback at least felt like the Season 3 we should have gotten.)
Clem always meeting Ava in the same spot at the exact same time to this day still makes me mad. It is so unrealistic it just shows the laziest writing to ever be done. They honestly could have done something as simple as 5 different backdrops with a shed, and then 4 throwaway ANF recruitment people. Hell, the dialog could have been 100% the same, at least it shows there was some effort in it and not incredibly unrealistic. Sure, after all 4 endings I can believe Clem ran into the new frontier and joined, but at the same time with the same person during all time lines? Thats a lot of stars aligning for such a miraculous event.
Wellington ending at least doesnt leave the player feeling pissed off atleast. Sadly this is because Wellington and Edith had 0 development so the player doesnt care at all. It just shows the extreme laziness and how they wasted an interesting idea. My main problem with the alone ending is how Clem loses her finger to a car door. Its just so dumb, and only done because they couldnt add an antagonist to cut it off because that would start a new story thread and they had B-LINE her into ANF's story fast AF.
Oh gosh, I actually remember reading that and I just closed the tab and face palmed. It's pretty clear that they spent very little to no eff… moreort at all on making Kenny's beard and Jane is suddenly larger? I'm pretty sure the Howe's flashbacks didn't take place that long after Season Two did it? At least it didn't seem like it. These two were main characters that were popular enough to ignite what was practically a war in these forums and people kept asking for them to return. I was foolish enough to have faith that Telltale would actually do them justice, I should've known that they'd just kill them off in the first episode.
But in all honesty, I feel the worst for those who got the Wellington Ending, your final decision practically didn't matter because Wellington fell (which I think was obviously gonna happen, cos Telltale), they only got one specific flashback and Edith had practically no character. At least the Alone ending made the mos… [view original content]
Comments
I think TT missed the boat. Not every decision tree should have her turning in to some heartless "badass" by s3. Like if you ended s2 with Clem being the pinnacle of current society, that should have altered her character quite a bit from what it actually was in s3. Some would say that losing AJ and whoever she happened to be with would cause this, but I couldn't disagree more. In e4 you get a flashback with Ava visiting you after they took AJ. You can (determinant) promise Ava that you will not lose that hope or whatever it is she saw in you. Thinking about it this should have a major impact on how Clem acts through s3 as it shows her mindset going forward about losing AJ, but its in e4 so good luck with that happening. Maybe they should have made the first ep of s3 just about the flashbacks and then tailored Clems personality to how they played out.
I think this exposed a real weakness with ANF: we didn't get to know enough of the Garcias to side against Clementine. In order to level out the decisions regarding Clem, we would have needed a full season (or at least a strong mini-series) to build connection with the Garcias (and I could have sworn there was a rumor that the Garcias were supposed to be the miniseries instead of Michonne). It should have taken place prior to the events of ANF (maybe during the events of Season 2). With that, we as Javier can build that parental relation with Mariana and Gabe, establish before hand our closeness, if you will, with Kate, understand what made the Garcias a capable group to survive the apocalypse by themselves, and other likewise connections with our new cast. It will give us more time from Clem so that her reemergence into the story feels fresh. Also, bonding with Mariana beforehand will make her death much more painful, and now you can use the introduction of Clem as someone who could fill the void left by Mari. Now use making the choice to side with Clem over the family sort of has validation. Gabe's impression of Clem also has more emotional impact than just teenage hormones since the two will clearly share a connection; Clem losing her family and (presumed) AJ and Gabe losing his relatives and sister. Two young kids with holes in their heart find someone to fill it with.
Yeah but everyone wanted to see Clementine who would have bought a mini series about a family no one cares about ?
Clem is cool and all, but I enjoy new characters and different ways to explore a universe. I'd rather beg for a character's return than have them milked dry.
I can agree to that.
Better to be left wanting more than screaming "Get da fuck off da stage!"
It also doesn't help that they tried their hardest to disconnect Clementine from the events of Season Two with the exception of AJ who makes a few small appearances. At this point it feels like Telltale is trying to bury their past mistakes, they didn't have to kill off Kenny, Jane and Edith, they chose to do so because they knew that despite fan backlash it means there'd be no reason for them to put in the extra effort on those characters.
It's really disheartening seeing The Walking Dead go downhill with Season Two and even farther in A New Frontier, whilst their other game series are actually improving and show us that they can make good quality stories, longer episodes and choices that have lingering effects that feel like they truly matter.
Hopefully with the changes made recently to the company they'll be doing allot better. I've got hope they can make great games but I'm just afraid for The Walking Dead's finale at this point.
This actually saddens me, as it practically ruins apart of the game - decision making. Of course people are going to side with who should be the main character and was for the past two seasons, she's the face of Telltale's The Walking Dead, Javier is uninteresting compared to her and we have no attachment towards him or his family (doesn't help that allot of them had negative traits depicted early on and they killed off one quickly).
I'm still angry about the information that was given to us prior to the release of the game - Clementine and Javier are main characters? Clementine's role is secondary at most. 52 starting points? Yeah, right. Episode one is too big that it had to be split into two? It barely reached the length of a usual episode of The Walking Dead Season One.
I feel the same way. Season 4 feels like its just a "cover up." Its just so dumb. Why bother taking the focus OFF Clem just to put it BACK on Clem? The whole idea of ANF is still mind numbing. To this day I honestly think Telltale just got high as fuck and made the first 2 eps of this game in 3 weeks.
The worst part about ANF was the lying before AND after the game released. It was one thing for ANF to suck, but for Telltale to blatantly lie about it hurt even more. Let's not forget the extremely immature AMA where Telltale either gave pointless info, or replied childishly. (The infamous one is where they replied by typing the sounds of what a bell makes which you cant even type here without having your commented deleted because it became so infamous as everyone made fun of Telltale for acting like children)
I never saw that,can you still find it ?
I was trying to find it, Im sure theres a screenshot somewhere I could dig up, but mods will most likely not allow it to stay up because I guess it falls under "singling out a staff member" also if I remember correctly the staff member deleted the entire thread because "things got out of hand" and we were being too "hostile." Im trying to remember exactly what it was, but someone posted something saying something along the lines of "This is Telltales vision" in which the staff member replied "DNG DNG DNG DNG" (its suppose to be an i) after not answering anyone's questions.
So basically Telltale made an AMA, didnt answer any questions, replied immaturely, then deleted it because we were mean in calling out the bullshit.
Strangely enough I actually remember that somehow. Someone made an overly long post and another user remarked that the staff member mostly likely wouldn't respond to it because it was too long and got that response.
Honestly I wouldn't say all the AMAs gave pointless information. The one with the actual creative team after ANF finished was pretty insightful since their hands weren't tied due to the risk of spoiling future episodes. At least I was satisfied with the answers to my questions anyways. They were really mature in their answers too.
Oh well yeah the AMAs that didnt involve a certain fella went overall well. It was just his AMA's that were terrible because like you said, a long thought out criticism and asking why this happened, was skipped over for a useless question like "IS JAvI GoNnA hAvE a BasEbAlL bAt iN tHE nExT EpIsoDE?!?!?!" with an answer being something like "Maybe XD XD XD" and how when he did reply to real criticisms it was either an immature response, sarcasm, or just replying with something that didnt actually answer anything. I still remember the person ask why Telltale thought killing Kenny and Jane so fast was a good idea and pointed out how they felt it looked rushed due to Kenny and Jane's models looking horrible, with the staff member just saying "We think they look fine."
like, bruh
Oh gosh, I actually remember reading that and I just closed the tab and face palmed. It's pretty clear that they spent very little to no effort at all on making Kenny's beard and Jane is suddenly larger? I'm pretty sure the Howe's flashbacks didn't take place that long after Season Two did it? At least it didn't seem like it. These two were main characters that were popular enough to ignite what was practically a war in these forums and people kept asking for them to return. I was foolish enough to have faith that Telltale would actually do them justice, I should've known that they'd just kill them off in the first episode.
But in all honesty, I feel the worst for those who got the Wellington Ending, your final decision practically didn't matter because Wellington fell (which I think was obviously gonna happen, cos Telltale), they only got one specific flashback and Edith had practically no character. At least the Alone ending made the most sense... which by the way, am I the only one still peeved off that all the endings lead to the same location at the same time? That makes no sense! Just like how Arvo's gang would confront Clementine at the same spot at the same time of day regardless of when the group decided to leave.
Kenny and Jane's first appearance was unacceptable, they both looked like shit. Ep 4 Kenny was acceptable but ep 4 Jane I still felt looked...off. Saddest part about there being another flashback for Kenny and Jane in ep 4 was it just confirmed Telltale legitimately thought they could get away with killing Kenny and Jane. We all know it only happened because backlash because if it was actually planned, it would have been obvious to have this scene first, not after. Sad part is, the ep 4 Kenny flashback is the only part of ANF I generally found well done, as well as actually feeling like I was playing Telltale's Walking Dead, despite the fact the scene was only there to try and win fans back over. (even the Jane's second flashback at least felt like the Season 3 we should have gotten.)
Clem always meeting Ava in the same spot at the exact same time to this day still makes me mad. It is so unrealistic it just shows the laziest writing to ever be done. They honestly could have done something as simple as 5 different backdrops with a shed, and then 4 throwaway ANF recruitment people. Hell, the dialog could have been 100% the same, at least it shows there was some effort in it and not incredibly unrealistic. Sure, after all 4 endings I can believe Clem ran into the new frontier and joined, but at the same time with the same person during all time lines? Thats a lot of stars aligning for such a miraculous event.
Wellington ending at least doesnt leave the player feeling pissed off atleast. Sadly this is because Wellington and Edith had 0 development so the player doesnt care at all. It just shows the extreme laziness and how they wasted an interesting idea. My main problem with the alone ending is how Clem loses her finger to a car door. Its just so dumb, and only done because they couldnt add an antagonist to cut it off because that would start a new story thread and they had B-LINE her into ANF's story fast AF.