i hope john can become our partner
ive tried everything possible to keep john and bruce friends i hope they can stay friends and john can become like red hood cause anthony ingruber said that he could stay friends with him i hope thats true cause a lot of people are trying to be nice to him and if they become enemies no matter what i will be FUMING!!!!!!! cause this is the ending i want and if it happens it destroys the purpose of the trust/dont trust john choice.
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I said it before and I will repeat myself.
John is dangerous and unstable and even though I like his character, there will not be a team up with John/Joker and the Batman. There will be a fight between them both even if you got the vigilante ending.
How it will end is hard to predict but that John gets sent back to Arkham is the most reasonable ending.
There's more chance of Roman Reigns not winning the title at Wrestlemania or Wrestlemania being good.
Anyway, I'll be fuming too if that happens and it likely will.
I can't be the only one who read the title and thought "ugh not another romance thread for John".
As for this whole topic about John & Bruce being friends... I'm rolling my eyes right now. I'm 99% certain the telltale staff are scratching their heads at people who keep saying John and Bruce are going to still be friends by the end of this season and team up instead of fighting each other:
There is a near identical topic to this too called "John Doe Dies in Episode 5 of The Enemy Within? Share your thoughts and ideas (Spoiler from Ep4)" it's basically the same speculation about what will happen to Joker.
Well, hope dies last.
I'll be glad if they'll team up in the end.
Why people can't understand they are playing as Bruce, and Bruce, repeatedly, even in the codex, establishes how dangerous and crazy John is? I get it you like it, you might find him interesting and he has pretty puppy eyes, but he's a murderer, he's insane, he just blew up an entire bridge and you're ready to forgive him and make him your best pal?
In fact, in the Vigiilante ending is the one in which he killed the most people with the explosion, since in the villain ending you're Batman and with your suit you can save at least 2 people, here you can't save no one.
Bruce didn't give that treatment to Harvey, who's a much better person than John and he knew him for more than a year, yet you want John, the guy he's been hanging with for 3 days to become his BFF?
The trust or not trust John has nothing to do with being friends, you can admit you hate John and you still have those options, trusting him or not is about taking down Harley, if you trust him to be the good guy and talk down to Harley or if you think he will just side with her.
Nope.
Thats the codex right after the ending. No one died in the vigilante ending exept Waller/Bruce potential romance which is still possible if you're into love-hate relationships with angry women.
The first thing Bruce states about potential partnership with John, is how he is in no positon for it, because Waller still has a firm grip on his balls. A few people in Gotham might not know Bruce is Batman, so he might want to obey. The second thing Bruce states about this partnership, if how he is not sure if he should help John, because of what John done. But "I honestly don't know if he should at this point" and "He won't at this point" are two very different statements.
The last sentence is pretty key tbh and I think you are over analysing it. I haven't read the Harley codex but I bet if I did, I could underline this and that which suggests a romance option or a one night stand lmao. It's actually kinda funny that people shot down the idea of a Harley romance but are condoning John and Bruce becoming allies by the end of this season. You can't have it both ways they are both equally crazy and vigilante Joker is going to end up in prison or dead one way or the other. It would be anti climatic to not have a Joker vs Batman moment and I don't think they are going to branch out to the extent you are hoping for where Joker is your ally.
They want to set up Avesta as an ally, Alfred would be like "whu whaat", Gordon would frown upon it and would refuse to work with Batman cause Joker is a criminal and was part of the pact. Waller would give away your identity and you would be sent to prison. Being a Vigilante isn't legal they could lock Batman up on a whim they only tolerate him due to the good he does but in their eyes if he starts to work with a criminal then it's over.
Sorry, I wouldn't hold out hope for that.
I've said this, others have said this, this thread is already filled with these comments so I'll give the short version.
Bruce is a civilised man. He does superhero-ism on the side. He wants to keep Gotham safe.
John, while he can be a nice guy, is pretty unstable. I'd love for them to stay friends, but working together in the vigilante business is a no. John's methods of "heroism" are lethal and very dangerous. This doesn't line up with Batman's codes, and is also very morally wrong. This is unjustifiable, and would make Gotham a much more dangerous place. This partnership has no chance.
Let's just hope John can stay alive and get the help he needs.
I read Harley's codex.
The thread starts with the line "i hope john can" not "can john really", so, yeah, I hope, because I want it.
And in this particular situation I see "staying friends" in one or another form as a possible outcome.
Also, nothing will ever stand between me and my perfect ending.
Leaked EP5 ending
John, the queen of Arkham
i just mean theres a way for my season to end with them being friends.
I suppose I could sort of see a situation where Joker gets sent to Arkham or Prison after a fight but there is some form of mutual understanding.
I want him to be my bro and padawan.
"Fought well you have my old padawan"
I strongly believe that Joker and Batman can still remain friends by the end of the season. There's just so many hints here and there, besides what would be the point in having vigilante and villain?
The same point we had in Season 1 with Harvey, and even if you save him and he is not two faces he still ends up as a villain?
People take "morality" too seriously on a game.
I think that it won't matter if "John" is a criminal or not. In the end I think your "friendship" with John will remain if you choose that.
Is like Catwoman, If you punched her and throw her to the wolves, I doubt she will be all cute and flirty with you next time (hopefully). If you never betray her she stays, and maybe become your fightcrime partner instead of John, I think. Who knows, maybe this will be the first Telltale game were your decisions actually matter?
I still wondering if we will see Harley next episode, and if whatever she remembers from our conversation with her on the bridge will have any impact.
So after two seasons of Telltale batman being on the theme of how dark Bruce is, people still consider him as some kind of model of morality unable to associate or believe in the redemption of the most violent characters ?
I don't think Bruce would possibly be all smile and forgiving after John endangered and killed several people on the bridge. I don't think however, that an option to work with him and help him change his ways would be out of character either, especially since, John had his whole world crumbling down and jumped off the bridge too ( to escape of course but he could have died all the same ). That probably took a tiny bit of Bruce's anger to rest for a while to replace it with worry.
Bruce can feel for Harley and Freeze as well and they are far from innocent people. I don't think he would work with them though while I am fairly convinced there's some level of realism to him working with John ( without necessarily inviting him to the batcave just yet ). And here is why :
John has spent the whole season ''toning down'' his impulse just so Bruce could like him, and Bruce has spent the whole season aware that John had a soft spot for him and using that as an advantage.
With that knowledge, how exactly is that weird for Bruce to believe that he, and Harley, are the only people able to control John, and he, the only one able to put him on the right path ?
John made conscious efforts before, why do you think he is unable to follow the ''no killing'' rule if he knows Batman doesn't kill ( which he knows ).
It might not be as easy as just Batman saying so so he permanently will follow the rule but that's something to work on with some time. It requires days or months of support, recognition and checking that John isn't running around with the wrong crowd anymore ( but why the hell would he, if he is Batman's ally ? ). I am sure John has more chances to make progress surrounded by support from people he cares about than on a facility which, of course, helped him before, but didn't ready him for the loneliness, freedom and unstability of society . He was also learning from murderers and psychiatrists, the latter is fine, but the former certainly won't help him. John learns from people, from what he sees, what will happen if you get him back in a hospital full of dangerous people but smart as well ?
Normally when people are that mentally ill, then they are supposed to have a follow up once they leave aren''t they ? It definitly helps to have pointers to know where to go, where to work, where to have fun... John didn't have that, and for the most part that's why he failed. He has a preference for violent people so he found his people, but he is perfectly capable of being guided by people or models who are not violent at all ( as far as we know ) such as, Dr Leland. As long as the person gives him attention, show that they like or at least tolerate him, he can possibly get attached, because from what I remember the guy was/is mostly lonely. ( people in the mental facility dreaded and distrusted him, not saying they were wrong at the time, but that doesn't open up the possibility to create friendship ) .
So yeah, bringing him back to arkham is no use, except if you guys want to lock him up forever ? Since, once he leaves he is gonna have face the exact same problems that lead him to blow that bridge on episode 4, except he'll have an even better understanding of the human brain and an even more pronounced desire for violence.
Its important to remember that the John of episode 4 was on edge. We didn't see him blowing up bridges before and that's because he wasn't in emotional distress and he still felt he had reasons to keep his cool. Bruce is the last reason for him to keep his cool at the end of episode 4, and sure he fucked up, but I still think Bruce can bring him back ( if only partially ) because John still cares about Bruce's opinion in one ending. Hey, once he killed people who would have killed him if he didn't, he was terrified of Bruce's reaction. He didn't ''want'' to kill these people because he cares about what Bruce's morales are, even if they are not his.
If Bruce doesn't like killing, well once John has no reason to be stressed, heart broken, angry then he'll make same conscious effort to bend to Bruce's will once again.
I almost find it sad personnaly that John is such a people pleaser, that's why I don't hate the villain ending by any means. At last, the boy is doing what HE wants.
So yeah, John is ill and he needs professional help, but he also needs a purpose, a friend, a model and it has been quite clear since the very beginning of the season. Ditching him and putting him back to Arkham will just hurt and anger him which in the long run might do more harm than good, and even if someone here doesn't like John and feel like the good of Gotham comes first, then they should either stay his friend ( for John to still have a ''good'' role model and someone who can keep him grounded ) or kill him... But Batman doesn't kill.
Well, aside from any in game reasons for trusting John or not. You know, I thought the idea in this game was to give you a new take on the characters. It would be dissapoiting if after everything that has been teased, we return to the boring status quo. *Selina=Love/Fuckbuddy *Amanda Waller= Cooperation/Pragmatic Ally *Gordon=Trust/Ally *Joker=Enemy/Nemesis.
Come on, I want something different!! Maybe we can make Selina a new villan. Harley a new Robin. Joker an infiltrated underground ally. Gordon a pragmatic ocasional ally, Waller and the Agency the Nemesis and help heal Nora and cure Freeze. And Tiffany as the new Batgirl/ Oracle.
I really wonder how all this is going tot play out in episode 5. And what will be the fate of John Doe
That's cool and all, but there's got to be a story. Having characters be different for the sake of being different isn't cut out for itself.
Harley can be Robin, Selina a villain, but it all needs to have reason, to be set up that way.
Currently we've got things set up the way you described (though John could get redemption, Selina is up in the air, and Waller's alliance might go either way). The thing is, there needs to be consistency. Harley can't be Robin, Alfred isn't suddenly going to be evil. It's just not set up that way, and would contradict previous values and events.
What we have right now is just fine. Good, modified takes on characters we know well. There is room for tweaked differences in what happens to them, it's just up to Telltale to put the work in for each case.
...
I wish they would remain friends, but I doubt it at this point. What I really want is for John to willingly go to a mental health facility, and not the hellhole that is Arkham. I mean, Bruce has all the money in the world, he could send John somewhere nice
But then again if Bruce chose to remodel Arkham at the end of s1 it could actually be a decent place for John to go and get the help he needs. I hope the Arkham choice actually matters more than the 1 line of dialogue we have gotten so far.
I'll add: Joker is violent while Batman isn't:
Btw. Frank Miller is a very questionable source to refer to, because his Batman is pretty psychotic. And yet. Regarding the question of "Bruce won't be partners with someone so violent".
Sons of Batman.
This guy:
is a member of self-proclaimed "pro-Batman" group of vigilantes (and a former member of criminal gang "Mutants"). He enters the shop during the robbery, shoots bad guys, when proceeds to cut off the employee's finger, because poor guy "was a coward" and didn't resist the robbery.
What does Batman?
That's what Batman does:
He takes the whole group as his personal army.
And the ending?
He KEEPS them as his personal boyscouts:
Which seems strange to me, and yet, it happened once.
I think we'll get that.
Yay
...
ayy
Do any of you realize just a season ago Bruce expresses how he cannot be friends with Harvey anymore and cries saying that even one innocent killed in what Harvey was trying to do was too high a cost?
He gets shocked and sad, and wants to put Harvey in jail/arkham as soon as that happens.
What makes you think the second time is the charm and now Bruce loves his villain friends? We don't know how that alliance from the pics works, but the Bruce from Telltale would never let a criminal walk free, even if that criminal does things to "help", because Harvey was clearly trying to help, at least way more than John, and even though you can get a sort of good ending with Harvey if you're always good to him and he still is not so insane, he still ends up in Jail/Arkham.
Honestly I'd just give up reasoning with these guys at this point, we'll have the last laugh when everyone is forced to fight Joker or send him to Arkham at the very end when he goes too far lol. It's probably gonna be one of them 3 overlapping scenes they mentioned in the blog post.
BUT THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO AVOID!
Do you want this place to be full of John fanboys crying, moping, brooding, etc because John didn't become their BFF?...
SIGN ME UP, I'll go get a John fanboys tears cup.
Frank Miller's Batman is very violent himself, and many interpretations of the character kinda follows his more psychotic side. The Arkham games are an example, (he even mourns Joker there) and he is even willing to place his own allies in danger, as long as he can place the "mission" first. He is also willing to work with criminals like Bane, Ivy and Freeze. So... I dunno. Maybe in this game, we could say that Amanda Waller is a bigger threat to Gotham than Joker.
I think John made the right call in refusing to give Amanda the virus. I wonder if the virus flask will brake or something and actually make John "crazy". Wasn't that thing supposed to heal and make you insane forever? I still think that regardles of the ending you can keep John as your friend or foe. The core of this game has being the characters feelings towards your Bruce. How Telltale will adress this in future seasons will be interesting. I hope they don't do the "Catwoman route" that regardless of how you treated her in the previous season it didn't seem to affect much of her dialogue in this one.
I aslo like how you can reject both Amanda and John at the ending of Episode 4 if you consider them both dangerous, or alienate everyone arround you and keep only the characters you liked most. Its fun. Can't wait to play both endings.
Ppl won't like John less or stop wanting to be friends with him if he goes too far, man. That's not how fanboyism works.
I'm 100% sure everyone here is perfectly aware who and what Joker is, but it's really not relevant to desire being buddies with him.
I won't be upset if it happens, I didn't expect him to go as far as becoming vigilante, haha, so I got more than I wanted already. And I just wanted to have a few friendly interactions with the freaking Joker. After ep4 I wanted QTE fight alongside with him, I love fights. Looks like I'll get it.
I understand how fanboyism over popular character might be annoying, but, seriously. Ppl just having fun. I don't see anything bad in liking a character and enjoying the game.
Well Harvey decided to attack the manor and wipe out Gordon's officers and have Gordon+Grogan killed. John just blew up a bridge with people who tried to kill him.
To be honest as much as that makes my tears flow, it's a good possibility.
Having to write two jokers in season 3 won't work.
maybe they can just end it with s2 cause we dont want a s3 were they destroy our s2 ending