Vigilante Joker or Villain Joker
So, over on the othertwdforum, almost everyone got the Vigilante Ending, and wants to stay friends with John. From what I've seen briefly on the official forums here, most people seem to like Villain John. I'm just curious if that was only my initial impression, or if it's true. So, a simple poll: Do you prefer Vigilante Joker or Villain Joker?
Personally, I'm all for Vigilante Joker and I really hope Bruce isn't forced to fight him or turn on him by the end of episode 5.
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I got vigilante John because it seemed like a no-brainer to want him on your side. He knows you identity and could do a lot more harm if you don't have the influence of being his "friend". Judging from the screenshots this will turn out pretty cool as it looks like we will fight the Suicide Squad alongside him.
My only concern is that I don't want the fact that he is on our side to damage relationships with other characters or take away from their screentime, like Catwoman and Batgirl who I've desperately been wanting to see more of throughout the season.
I enjoy classical Joker, but for a loooong time I REALLY wanted Batman and Joker to team up and work together. Because, seriously, Batman and Joker united is the force to be reckoned with.
TT offered me to make them pals, I gladly accepted.
So it's vigilante.
Besides, this "Joker" version was willing to listen and learn. Bruce is perfectly aware how much respect John holds for him, so it felt natural to be a role model for him.
I just hope this vigilante version of Joker gonna be brutal and dangerous enough to be JOKER. I want him on my side, but as himself, not meek clown prankster version. If it will cost me some allies - fine, I can survive Gordon's battitude.
I think it's going to come down to Joker taking things too far. Maybe Batman will try to course correct him but in the end Joker will resort to murder etc which will force you to take him down. Like if there is a fight with Waller there is no way that Batman would let Joker kill her.
Vigilante.
Villain.
Both :P
Vigilante for me. Villain is so overdone.
I prefer the design of villain but from the storytelling&character perspective I much prefer vigilante.
OK, so am I really the only one here on the forum whose decisions lead to the villain ending?
It can be a really good or really bad thing...
While I have no problem with villain interpretations, I really want to see how Telltale handles a vigilante Joker, one that fights by Batman's side as a friend. That was a big reason why I went with the vigilante ending.
Well, Villan has been done many times. Vigilante is new. Kinda.
I have the usual route villan joker.
I prefer Villain Joker, I just can't stand John at all, and It was beautiful telling him to fuck off. But if the plot is better and more interesting with him as Vigilante I guess I might switch.
How can you not love him ?
Because he's a dangerous psychopath who did horrible things and is annoying AF?
It is probably the second time I have to say this on this forum, but I totally agree with you on what you said.
In the state in which John is now he is dangerous to everyone.
Vigilante. Telltale did something really special with Joker in that they really made me care about him. And whenever he sways too far too the edge it physically hurts me because I love him so much.
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Agree 100% with this. Vigilante all the way, I think I'll watch the villain path from youtube because playing it would feel wrong and weird.. I've tried but I can't be mean to John at all.
Vigilante John is much more original and interesting imho. Just hope we see a proper team up with Joker in Episode 5.
I did, unfortunately.
I had chosen the "John is lying" option since I was thinking I'd be able to talk John down from the path he was taking.
But nope, Bruce was like "YOu'Re gOInG To JAiL JoHn!" and it all went downhill from there. I don't really like save scumming though so I decided to keep the choice.
To each their own. But you still have to give Telltale credit for making this "dangerous psychopath" appealing to enough players that they opted for the vigilante route instead of the villain path. It's a new angle to the character I haven't seen before, and I want to find out where it goes in episode 5 (and season 3, assuming it happens).
Vigilante John, because I wanted to remain as his friend and it is completely different to all other versions of the Joker
I have to say now I have gotten over my traditional concern of Joker being an inevitable bad guy in my second play through and I am striving to be his friend, it’s quite easy to like him more. Definitely looking forward to the Vigilante run second, even though I am excited to see how Telltale handles John as the more traditional Joker as well.
Vigilante, 'cuz like:
1. potential ally
2. has likeable non-enemy-Joker qualities
3. is new
Sure, Villain Joker looks cooler, but I like John, and even if I didn't, it wouldn't make sense to have another enemy.
I'd like to say I'm sorry, because I feel I'm entering an unorganized, loosely-related collage of thoughts on everything John, from his character, my impressions, and his connection to Bruce.
It's not as if I'm incapable of organizing my thoughts objectively, but when it came to the choice with John, I wasn't considering the effects on my allies or even the entirety of our relationship. I just knew that by failing to trust him, I would destroy him, and I couldn't bear that. I had strong reservations, and I carried those with me throughout the season. Nonetheless, I couldn't ignore that when I placed my faith in him, it was always touchingly rewarded. Clearly he's mentally unwell and stumbling gravely with his place in this new world, and those who he's earnestly relied upon for guidance will only encourage his fall into darkness.
Briefly hopping around, I believe John - diagnostically speaking - suffers from sociopathy. I don't believe we need clinical terms or labels to understand who someone is or what they feel in this setting, and I'm not an expert. (of course it would be the world to understand this disorder in a true, real individual) He developed what I feel is genuine, pure affection for various close ones, and was instinctually willing to make sacrifices for Bruce if he's believed to be a friend. Outside of that sphere, however, he demonstrates a worrying lack of remorse or care for human welfare, even going so far as to laugh in the face of carnage. Whatever you believe to have occurred in Harley's special hideaway, in the face of human loss, he wasn't affected by the corpses around him, but the impression he knew they would impart on Bruce. (I felt terrible for him because he was clearly panicking, yet remained fearful and hesitant) While his depiction in the first season and first few appearances in TEW express the contrary, I never felt he was truly manipulative, and that would support this thought. Those with sociopathy lack the insidious guise of psychopaths, often having lesser control over their own emotions. Explosive, upfront - we see this when his insecurities are prodded or he faces hurt or conveys anger. This doesn't mean John is inherently bad or incapable of developing moral guidelines; innately, he's just missing that natural sense of empathy. This sentimentality doesn't mean he's not dangerous to Gotham, for he's currently running with a twisted sense of judgement and way too many resources. He tends to mirror those he trusts and latches onto, and it's my hope that Bruce will be able to help him find more human values to replace his current system. Anyone can find their sense of right and wrong.
I haven't delved deep into the Batman mythos, but is it that the Joker typically poses as a reflection of Batman, the darkness and chaos to his apparent morality and order? Attracted to Bruce by that intuitive sense, I feel that, despite what I spoke of before, he carries himself with large restraint - possibly self-denying. That makes this feel special. Beneath the deliberateness and control, we can see there's instability lurking. But that control remains, certainly fractured, but beyond repair?
I truly do care for John. Throughout the season, however, I didn't feel we shared this penetrating bond or glorious friendship. I often did influence him to work towards my own ends, of course caring for him as a person and wanting to be a support or guidance all the while, but a desperation to build and preserve our relationship didn't bleed into every decision I made, was cruelly secondary. Feeling remorseful and empathetic yet standing distant defined our connection for the first few episodes. I felt terribly guilty hearing him break down in front of Bruce, not just knowing he felt those emotions, but that they were true, in the past. I now would call him a friend. That's probably all I had to say here.
I hope we will have an opportunity to help John find his own redemption. No matter who the person is, I believe we should try to support those around us. But of course, the safety of Gotham, the security of innocent lives, both strangers and friend, must remain first in Bruce's mind. It will be...interesting to see the paths Vigilante and Villain will leave on this world. In a sick twist of fate, perhaps encouraging John to embrace his true self will result in disaster - at least momentarily. Just one week remains...
To answer the actual question simply: I choose Vigilante, and that's what I support. I am very interested in seeing this character divergence.
I chose Vigliante Joker!
In my alt-playthrough, I've got John as a villain, and I said I believed, but that he'd still have to talk to the authorities. I want to kind of have it be like, Bruce is still John's friend even though he's a villain. I really want to see how far Telltale will let me go down that path of still trying to be John's friend in the Villain version of the episode.
So
13 Vigilante
4 Villain
I honestly thought there'd be more people who went with Villain Joker. That was sorta my initial impression, but even playing through the episode again a couple days ago, it was like 67% Vigilante 33% Villain. Huh.
I went Vigilante because we've seen enough versions of the Joker as a villain and we all know the future he would bring as one. So a vigilante Joker would infact be the best thing that has ever happen because of the fact that Joker an an anti-hero would be really interesting to see. That's also coming from "Batman:White Knight". And there would be a possibility that Waller would become a villain at the end of episode 5, but let's be real. Waller is kinda always a villain in some version
Also, I strangely have a soft spot for him. And that's unexpected because originally in the beginning I actually wanted to kill him, but if we shape him and make him an ally then that would be the closest thing we could do to actually prevent the future of a villain Joker
So yeah. Vigilante Joker all the way
Villian
My main playthrough is Villain because I want my classic Batman and joker story. I know some people say it's been done and boring and while I agree the vigilante is new and we don't know want can come from it. I came to this season to make my joker like his usual unpredictable self
I honestly hope villain joker gets as much love and care as vigilante joker. And they did not focus too much on vigilante joker and we get a disappointing villain playthrough .
From the screenshots I think he'll be done justice.
Villian Joker is a bit unique than the usual despite him being the villian since the confrontation with him will be so much more personal than the usual since he knows our identity and considered Bruce as his buddy plus we spent 4 episodes with him. From the article Telltale relases,his whole purpose is to get revenge on Bruce.
Yeah, they said that John would still be John even as a villain. He isn't going to be classic Joker, he has a lot of personal hate and resentment towards Bruce that can make him a lot more interesting.
I doubt they have any preferences in Telltale. The script for this episode was probably written when the whole season production began, and by then, they couldn't know if John would be liked by a majority of players.
In fact, it would be more reasonsble to expect the vigilante path to have less work behind, since it would be wise on their part to assume most people wouldn't trust John because of his big reputation in other media.
Buuuut, we are getting two entirely different episodes. If they decided to make that big of a difference, I doubt they put less work in any of them.
I felt that way at the beginning of the season, but John somehow grew on me and it ended up feeling more natural with him as a vigilante.
From the looks of it villain is going to be awesome and super intense. Right now I feel like villain route will probably be much more powerful because first - it's a classical dymanic, which already proved itself, and second, as Dan10 said, it's even more personal than usual.
It's the vigilante route I'm worried about in the sense of character delivery. Because it's new. I have no idea how this dynamic will work, because even if at some point vigilante Joker and Batman will start biting each other faces off, their confrontation will lack the same level of mutual hatred and anger, it will be very different.
So, I wouldn't worry about the villain route. This one I'm 100% sure will be a success and extremly enjoyble.
Vigilante, John will continue to descent into villainy and do far worse things if he doesn't have someone to be there as moral support.
Villian joker looks so cool