That doesn't mean your writing skills completely vanish. Look at the fight between Javier and David, it was obviously supposed to be emotion… moreal but honestly, it's the most cringy moment in the franchise IMO and I don't know anyone who actually thought it was emotional. Also, look at the flirting scene with Jesus and Javier, it was so badly written that even Robert Kirkman publicly admitted it was awful.
ANF was rushed yes, but that wasn't its only problem, the writers that were hired by Kevin Bruner weren't experienced enough to handle a TWD game, Season 1 was game of the year 2012 for gods sake. ANF was a mix of bad writing and a very tight schedule, and unfortunetely, some of those writers are still working at Telltale today.
I mean, the whole writers room was replaced after episode 2. They pretty much had to continue and end the story from a whole different team.… more
ANF didn't turn out the way it did because the writers hate you or the game. It was just a shitty situation for everybody.
Deadlines do have an impact on writing. Someone who plots and constructs a story for a year will in most cases have a better story than someone who has three or for weeks to get it done.
Management was a huge reason why ANF turned out the way it did. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were written by a completely different team than the remaining three episodes. Many writers from the old team had left Telltale after ANF premiered which resulted in a complete writers room replacement. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were in developement hell, which is no secret, since those first two episodes are literally all over the place. The rest of the season, which - again - was pretty much handled by a different team, felt a little aimless to me. It felt like they wrote the story as it progressed, with not much of a build up for anything. Everything just happens. Not, because it makes narratively or thematically sense, but because it just needed to happen so the story could continue.
For example: Badger ended up more important than he was supposed to be - at least in episode 3 - because they needed him for a particular scene. Why do i think that he wasn't supposed to be that important? Because of how shitty he looked. No, really! His character model looks more like a character you would see in the background than a character, who's more or less important. Just compare his model-work with those of Max, Clint or even Francine, who has much much less screentime.
The story of ANF (eps. 3 - 5) felt more like the very first draft of a screenplay than a fully revised version of the same story. The new team just didn't had the time to revise their script.
You sure love to bring up the management and the rewrites don't you? Instead of being ignorant, let's look at the actual writing in From the… more Gallows, it's simply terrible, deadlines have nothing to do with that. If an episode is full of bugs, you can absolutely argue that it was because of the deadline, management etc because logically, the staff obviously just didn't have time to fix the bugs. When the dialogue is this badly written however, and characters disappearing and teleporting all over the place, it makes 0 sense to blame it on the rewrites because it's the writer that actually writes the dialogue. Now, if you like the writing in episode 5 or not, that's of course subjective, but saying that bad writing is not the writer's fault is just insanity, can't you hear yourself how stupid that sounds?
I don't know if it's entirely the fault of the writers, sure they may not have been the best, but the fact that KB insisted on having probably overworked and burned out 7 writers per episode on a deadline while forcing Telltale to vomit out 3 other games definitely had some impact on ANF's quality
That doesn't mean your writing skills completely vanish. Look at the fight between Javier and David, it was obviously supposed to be emotion… moreal but honestly, it's the most cringy moment in the franchise IMO and I don't know anyone who actually thought it was emotional. Also, look at the flirting scene with Jesus and Javier, it was so badly written that even Robert Kirkman publicly admitted it was awful.
ANF was rushed yes, but that wasn't its only problem, the writers that were hired by Kevin Bruner weren't experienced enough to handle a TWD game, Season 1 was game of the year 2012 for gods sake. ANF was a mix of bad writing and a very tight schedule, and unfortunetely, some of those writers are still working at Telltale today.
I get that, but there's also a difference between them being just bad and them being pushed into a very shitty corner and being forced to develope a new script in a fraction of the time they normally need.
That doesn't mean your writing skills completely vanish. Look at the fight between Javier and David, it was obviously supposed to be emotion… moreal but honestly, it's the most cringy moment in the franchise IMO and I don't know anyone who actually thought it was emotional. Also, look at the flirting scene with Jesus and Javier, it was so badly written that even Robert Kirkman publicly admitted it was awful.
ANF was rushed yes, but that wasn't its only problem, the writers that were hired by Kevin Bruner weren't experienced enough to handle a TWD game, Season 1 was game of the year 2012 for gods sake. ANF was a mix of bad writing and a very tight schedule, and unfortunetely, some of those writers are still working at Telltale today.
Ties That Bind 2 (Its more like a 9/10 vs a 6.5/10 sooo really not that drastic as most). The pacing was breakneck at times with the group constantly being on the move. There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that the episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and Clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine" Seriously if you killed him you are no better than the New frontier, and the consequences of killing him don't mean anything except for a little scene with Tripp "Uh sorry Tripp he kinda just died" "Aw okay Javi ". I normally don't mind shorter episodes but as a episode its incredibly brief. Ties that Bind as a singular experience is great imo, but its wasting a whole episode slot when it really could have just been a 2.5 hr long premiere so I'm gonna give it a little shit.
The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were written by a completely different team than the remaining three episodes.
Really now? I mean, the thoughts kinda right with the timeframe, but if so, the episode 3 people clearly did their homework and tried to work in what they could.
Not, because it makes narratively or thematically sense, but because it just needed to happen so the story could continue.
Joan's character derailment is one of the bigger examples of that.
Why do i think that he wasn't supposed to be that important? Because of how shitty he looked. No, really! His character model looks more like a character you would see in the background than a character, who's more or less important
Pretty damn much.
Graysonn's gamedelving further confirmed it, as he was supposed to be the one driving Javier to Richmond in the truck, hence why he was at the junkyard alongside Max's crew.
Deadlines do have an impact on writing. Someone who plots and constructs a story for a year will in most cases have a better story than some… moreone who has three or for weeks to get it done.
Management was a huge reason why ANF turned out the way it did. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were written by a completely different team than the remaining three episodes. Many writers from the old team had left Telltale after ANF premiered which resulted in a complete writers room replacement. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were in developement hell, which is no secret, since those first two episodes are literally all over the place. The rest of the season, which - again - was pretty much handled by a different team, felt a little aimless to me. It felt like they wrote the story as it progressed, with not much of a build up for anything. Everything just happens. Not, because it makes narratively or thematically sense, but because it just needed to happen … [view original content]
There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that tge episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
Admittedly, I did give a fairly large bit of attention into all that when I was rewriting the episode.
The semi-constantly on the move feeling of the episode didn't bother me too much, but it did occur to me that another freewalk or at least a more wayside cinematic sequence could've potentially been nice.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine"
There are other reasons to consider doing so beyond, for better or worse, but yeah, I agree.
Ties that Bind as a singular experience is great imo, but its wasting a whole episode slot when it really could have just been a 2.5 hr long premiere so I'm gonna give it a little shit.
I do feel like things such as Joan, The Council, and Richmond in general, and to an extent, the Garcia-Prescott group dynamics could've used another episode to really breathe with the running time ANF got stuck with.
Ties That Bind 2 (Its more like a 9/10 vs a 6.5/10 sooo really not that drastic as most). The pacing was breakneck at times with the group c… moreonstantly being on the move. There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that the episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and Clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine" Seriously if you killed him you are no better than the New frontier, and the consequences of killing him don't mean anything except for a little scene w… [view original content]
Well, it's a 9/10, guys, not a very horribly paced episode full of wtfs and literally nothing else lol. How are people no better than this group of uncontrolled animals who murder as they see fit? As opposed to Conrad, who's noble and ERMAGERD U WAS FRIEND gon kill ya nephew uncle Javi!! You the boss though, you do what you gotta, until episode 4 anyway.
Ties That Bind 2 (Its more like a 9/10 vs a 6.5/10 sooo really not that drastic as most). The pacing was breakneck at times with the group c… moreonstantly being on the move. There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that the episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and Clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine" Seriously if you killed him you are no better than the New frontier, and the consequences of killing him don't mean anything except for a little scene w… [view original content]
Well, it's a 9/10, guys, not a very horribly paced episode full of wtfs and literally nothing else lol. How are people no better than this g… moreroup of uncontrolled animals who murder as they see fit? As opposed to Conrad, who's noble and ERMAGERD U WAS FRIEND gon kill ya nephew uncle Javi!! You the boss though, you do what you gotta, until episode 4 anyway.
I like them both a lot, honestly. Ties that Bind had the toughest choice I've ever made in a Telltale game (Conrad vs. Clem) but the Kenny f… morelashback in ep 4 had me bawling like a baby and the betrayal scene had my jaw to the floor.
Actually they're probably my favorite episodes of the season, both have their issues obviously but I say I prefer episode two just a bit more
Ties That Bind 2 (Its more like a 9/10 vs a 6.5/10 sooo really not that drastic as most). The pacing was breakneck at times with the group c… moreonstantly being on the move. There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that the episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and Clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine" Seriously if you killed him you are no better than the New frontier, and the consequences of killing him don't mean anything except for a little scene w… [view original content]
From the Gallows is worse, no question about it. Usually I’m a guy that, after watching or playing something, will try to look for the good in it, but then after thinking about it, notice it’s flaws. It’s usually an attempt to justify the experience to myself I guess. FtG’s problems I saw right off the bat and hated immediately after finishing. Pt. 2 is bad, but for all of its problems, it’s a master piece compared to the clusterfuck that was FtG.
Plot lines left unfinished, no playable Clem section, character fates left a mystery, rushed deaths, poorly executed “emotional” moments, characters constantly making questionable decisions or doing things that don’t make sense, sudden shifts in motivations, more forced romance, an unavoidable climactic fight with our brother that ignores all previous choices, Clem’s new outfit, rushed pacing, jumping from one moment to another with no breaks, a Clem recap choice screen to deceive us and give the illusion that what we did as her actually mattered, and an insulting and vile interpretation of soldiers through the character of David are just the things I can gather off the top of my head.
Again, Pt. 2 is bad, and if you want my thoughts on it, you can watch my new review for it (I’m working on the others and am making my way to Episode 5), but FtG is worse in almost every single manner of speaking.
Eh, Thicker Than Water was actually a pretty decent episode. Not amazing by any stretch, it had problems, but it wasn’t all that bad. I certainly liked it more than Around Every Corner, Amid the Ruins, and every episode from the Michonne mini series. The rest of the episodes are garbage, but Thicker does deserve some credit.
Eh, Thicker Than Water was actually a pretty decent episode. Not amazing by any stretch, it had problems, but it wasn’t all that bad. I cert… moreainly liked it more than Around Every Corner, Amid the Ruins, and every episode from the Michonne mini series. The rest of the episodes are garbage, but Thicker does deserve some credit.
Eh, personally disagree. I've been seriously rewatching ANF and I just hate all of it, except maybe (just maybe) Ties That Bind: Part One, only because some of the early moments have sparks of potential and Clementine isn't that bad/different. But at the same time I love S2/Michonne when most people don't so don't trust my tastes
Eh, Thicker Than Water was actually a pretty decent episode. Not amazing by any stretch, it had problems, but it wasn’t all that bad. I cert… moreainly liked it more than Around Every Corner, Amid the Ruins, and every episode from the Michonne mini series. The rest of the episodes are garbage, but Thicker does deserve some credit.
I also love S2, almost as much as S1, and I did get enjoyment out of Michonne as well. I’m just trying to give credit where I think credit is due. TtW is a decent to good episode due to some actually good character moments, relatively even pacing, and the longest and best Clem playable segment. Of course the episode has its problems, a lot of which are the same I have with the season as a whole (forced romance, which is at its worst here, undeveloped villains, and a disappointing payoff to what the previous episode set up, that being a political battle between different factions within Richmond, causing a sort of civil war within the community, how cool would that have been).
Eh, personally disagree. I've been seriously rewatching ANF and I just hate all of it, except maybe (just maybe) Ties That Bind: Part One, o… morenly because some of the early moments have sparks of potential and Clementine isn't that bad/different. But at the same time I love S2/Michonne when most people don't so don't trust my tastes
Eh, personally disagree. I've been seriously rewatching ANF and I just hate all of it, except maybe (just maybe) Ties That Bind: Part One, o… morenly because some of the early moments have sparks of potential and Clementine isn't that bad/different. But at the same time I love S2/Michonne when most people don't so don't trust my tastes
I agree. Hey, what were the problems with Above The Law again? Strange, but I'm starting to think that was a decent episode too. I know one big problem is how when talking about Mariana's fate, Joan and Clint make it seem like only David and his soldiers are getting in trouble but truly nothing different happens and Javi still gets exiled. Not only that, but characters like Tripp didn't steal any gas or anything. He had to open fire to defend his town.
Eh, Thicker Than Water was actually a pretty decent episode. Not amazing by any stretch, it had problems, but it wasn’t all that bad. I cert… moreainly liked it more than Around Every Corner, Amid the Ruins, and every episode from the Michonne mini series. The rest of the episodes are garbage, but Thicker does deserve some credit.
Like most of the episodes this series, shoddy pacing. The beginning didn’t start off too bad, it was slow but it did attempt to develop the characters and give background on the New Frontier. Granted it doesn’t make much sense because of conflicting information and numerous rewrites, but at least the attempt was made. The second half, however, feels rushed like the rest of the series. It goes at a breakneck pace from one place to another.
Kate’s actions and her reasoning don’t make much sense. I know these are the people that killed Mari, but they also healed you up from your wound and you’re going to live, yet somehow she thinks this place is a cage and feels bad about this place. She’s been confined to the hospital room, she has no reason to think this.
The incredible and ridiculous standard Richmond has of accepting people. Seriously, they kick Javi out because he unknowingly stole their gas and call him a bandit (hypocritical much since they took Richmond over from their original inhabitants). Not to mention that Clint has a line about how they’ve turned away people for lesser actions. If that’s the case, then Richmond must surely not get many new members, because at this point, who hasn’t committed some heinous act in order to survive.
The whole voting system makes no sense. Lingard said his vote was with David before they left for the church, so that means it’s a split vote as to what should be done about Javi and the others. Yet somehow that means they get kicked out, I guess Lingard’s vote doesn’t mean anything. But wait a minute, he put in a good word for Eleanor and they let her stay, so clearly his word carries a lot of weight. But then why does David’s word not carry a similar weight. And why does Joan’s vote become the be all end all decision, especially when it hadn’t been exposed yet about her undertakings.
Speaking of her undertakings, how she quickly, nonchalantly, and almost comedically sways both Lingard and Clint to side with her over her actions of killing innocent people. Apparently Clint, who had a problem with Javi stealing their gas, will just allow Joan to continue to steal from communities that have lead to the deaths of countless people.
“You put yourself before the group.” That’s what David says to Clem and what Clint says to David, both of which are fucking ridiculous. Clem used the medicine to save the closest thing she has left to family after they had given up on him (I’m planning on going a bit more into detail about Clem’s attachment to AJ in my review for Episode 3, looking to have it up by the end of this week), but David says that she acted selfishly. Meanwhile, he allows and excuses Lingard for using it to get high. Then Clint says it to David because he doesn’t support the raiding and looting of other communities to benefit Richmond, as if wanting Richmond to not cause the suffering of numerous people is putting himself before the group.
More forced romance. No long diatribe about this, it’s just there and I don’t like it, and now they’ve added a last minute addition with Tripp and Eleanor in a last ditch effort to do something with their characters.
The episode sets up a sort of political conflict, with David talking about the need for allies and how politics in Richmond get messy. It sounds like they’re setting up for this huge civil war inside Richmond, where factions break out and alliances are made, and your choices could determine who wins. That all sounds very interesting, but that never ends up happening.
And the biggest thing wrong with this episode, and I guess you can tally this up with pacing issues but it deserves its own bullet point, one of the most emotional moments in this season is completely ruined because of the game’s desire to focus on action. Clem telling Javi about AJ and then the two of them hugging, honestly, that’s one of the best parts of the entire game, and then, not 10 seconds later, it goes right back into the action, with little to no break to absorb what just happened. Our mind, instead of thinking about what we just saw and analyzing the impact it should have on these characters, is now immediately put on pressing the right buttons and not messing up. Again, this is something I will spend A LOT more time talking about in my review for Episode 3. I’m doing a whole ANF review series where I look at each individual episode and talk about its flaws. I have videos up regarding the first two episodes as well as one about some early development info about the game.
I agree. Hey, what were the problems with Above The Law again? Strange, but I'm starting to think that was a decent episode too. I know one … morebig problem is how when talking about Mariana's fate, Joan and Clint make it seem like only David and his soldiers are getting in trouble but truly nothing different happens and Javi still gets exiled. Not only that, but characters like Tripp didn't steal any gas or anything. He had to open fire to defend his town.
* Like most of the episodes this series, shoddy pacing. The beginning didn’t start off too bad, it was slow but it did attempt to develop th… moree characters and give background on the New Frontier. Granted it doesn’t make much sense because of conflicting information and numerous rewrites, but at least the attempt was made. The second half, however, feels rushed like the rest of the series. It goes at a breakneck pace from one place to another.
* Kate’s actions and her reasoning don’t make much sense. I know these are the people that killed Mari, but they also healed you up from your wound and you’re going to live, yet somehow she thinks this place is a cage and feels bad about this place. She’s been confined to the hospital room, she has no reason to think this.
* The incredible and ridiculous standard Richmond has of accepting people. Seriously, they kick Javi out because he unknowingly stole their gas and call him a bandit (hypocritical much… [view original content]
My only big issue when the episode came out was how Conrad's animosity with Clementeen(and to a lesser extent the New Frontier) just kinda stopped being a thing, which is a shame since it had a big hand in making things more interesting for the group dynamics and made her presence tolerable.
With that said, there were also little things like the lack of at least one proper hub area, Tripp fully becoming a loudmouthed idiot with a laughable excuse for character development regardless of your choice regarding Conrad, and Gabe & especially Kate being left out of much of the episode's events and not getting much focus.
Joan and Clint make it seem like only David and his soldiers are getting in trouble but truly nothing different happens and Javi still gets exiled.
To be fair on the first part, we don't know what they talked to Max about after Joan had the Council Guard escort Javier out, so it's entirely possible that they intended to do something about Badger upon his return if his rogue actions came up.
Javier still gets exiled because he was deemed untrustworthy due to essentially stealing from them, attacking Lonnie, possibly killing Rufus, and having some connection to Clementine. Plus, it can also be seen as foreshadowing that Joan might've suspected him of threatening to her secret operation and so had an extra reason to go ahead and have him removed from Richmond.
Not only that, but characters like Tripp didn't steal any gas or anything. He had to open fire to defend his town.
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure why he and possibly Paul were kicked out other than possibly being deemed guilty by association--assuming The New Frontier don't know who the latter is at least.
I agree. Hey, what were the problems with Above The Law again? Strange, but I'm starting to think that was a decent episode too. I know one … morebig problem is how when talking about Mariana's fate, Joan and Clint make it seem like only David and his soldiers are getting in trouble but truly nothing different happens and Javi still gets exiled. Not only that, but characters like Tripp didn't steal any gas or anything. He had to open fire to defend his town.
Okay, let's take a look at this for discussion and observation purposes:
The beginning didn’t start off too bad, it was slow but it did attempt to develop the characters and give background on the New Frontier. Granted it doesn’t make much sense because of conflicting information and numerous rewrites, but at least the attempt was made.
Yeah, you can really tell that they did their homework and thought the storytelling choices, making good use of those 3[+] months as much as they could.
Like most of the episodes this series, shoddy pacing.
The second half, however, feels rushed like the rest of the series. It goes at a breakneck pace from one place to another.
I suppose it's fair to say that Clementine flashback aside, the actual plot with Javier, determinately Conrad, David, Max, and Badger does accelerate to some form of resolution and/or ammendment relatively quickly.
Kate’s actions and her reasoning don’t make much sense. I know these are the people that killed Mari, but they also healed you up from your wound and you’re going to live, yet somehow she thinks this place is a cage and feels bad about this place. She’s been confined to the hospital room, she has no reason to think this.
Fear isn't always rational, though in this case, I'd say she was at least responding to it in a reasonable enough manner. She mainly just told Javier to be careful & promise they'd be able to leave eventually and only really pushed for doing so once she realized David challenging Joan would inevitably cause tensions amongst the community with the family/group in the middle of it. And it's not like she was wrong about suspecting something wasn't right about the city, considering it was secretly running on supplies stolen from other settlements and originally belonged to another group to begin with.
The incredible and ridiculous standard Richmond has of accepting people. Seriously, they kick Javi out because he unknowingly stole their gas and call him a bandit
I think the combination of him doing that, escaping Rufus's custody, having collaborated with Clemetine, and getting into it all with Max in the first place killed what chance Javier had of meeting their standards due to David's credibility as a Leader being increasingly called into question with all that & Badger's behavior .
(hypocritical much since they took Richmond over from their original inhabitants).
A bit of headcanon/prediction on my part, but I kinda got the vibe that Joan's Party may have conquered the city during her time separate from the others. Or at the very least, took down the original leadership so the Council could take it's place with David's Soldiers as it's new security force. Whether she managed this on her own, with Clint, David, and/or Lingard's help, or actually had a Norma situation of another hostile group moving in before The New Frontier did is up in the air.
Not to mention that Clint has a line about how they’ve turned away people for lesser actions. If that’s the case, then Richmond must surely not get many new members, because at this point, who hasn’t committed some heinous act in order to survive.
...Okay, admittedly that line doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you actually think about it.
The whole voting system makes no sense. Lingard said his vote was with David before they left for the church, so that means it’s a split vote as to what should be done about Javi and the others. Yet somehow that means they get kicked out, I guess Lingard’s vote doesn’t mean anything. But wait a minute, he put in a good word for Eleanor and they let her stay, so clearly his word carries a lot of weight. But then why does David’s word not carry a similar weight.
I realized that when talking about David's credibility.
Which is funny, considering how the two endings of the episode actually do work with that.
And why does Joan’s vote become the be all end all decision, especially when it hadn’t been exposed yet about her undertakings.
Okay, we're going into obscure observations here, but I kinda got the sense that Joan(and ultimately Clint, probably even moreso...) carried a lot of clout amongst the group, as not only did she manage to get Max, Badger, and later Clint on her side regarding the raids and/or David's dethroning, but even David cites her as siding with him regarding kicking out Clementine to get Lingard to back down from arguing with him.
Also, if it makes you feel any better, they were probably just banking on Lingard disapproving of Javier's character as well and Joan rushed the group out before actually consulting him.
Speaking of her undertakings, how she quickly, nonchalantly, and almost comedically sways both Lingard and Clint to side with her over her actions of killing innocent people. Apparently Clint, who had a problem with Javi stealing their gas, will just allow Joan to continue to steal from communities that have lead to the deaths of countless people.
They were all going along with it by being convinced that it is indeed a necessary sacrifice to prevent a similar loss as with the first Winter and ensure the survival of both The New Frontier and Richmond. After all, she convinced Max and possibly most of the soldiers under his & Badger's command on those grounds--why wouldn't she be able to convince Clint?
In Lingard's case, it could be a combination of both realizing that the people needs medicine to have higher chances at surviving and wanting to try to object to help David, but not being able to do much of anything in his confliction and thus declaring that his hands are tied.
It's also definitely worth noting that it's collectively implied that most of the raids were planned out to be carried out with relatively and without completely destroying the other settlements. Prescott was only raided and burned to the ground because of Badger.
“You put yourself before the group.” That’s what David says to Clem and what Clint says to David, both of which are fucking ridiculous. Clem used the medicine to save the closest thing she has left to family after they had given up on him , but David says that she acted selfishly. Meanwhile, he allows and excuses Lingard for using it to get high. Then Clint says it to David because he doesn’t support the raiding and looting of other communities to benefit Richmond, as if wanting Richmond to not cause the suffering of numerous people is putting himself before the group.
Karma! Karma, Karma, Karma!
Yeah, it's kinda bullshit, but David was the only one objecting to what was essentially The New Frontier's survival and so they deemed him a threat. That he and his men had caused a number of problems leading up to that point didn't help.
Though in the case of AJ and Lingard, it's never really stated what Lingard was using to get high and in the event he was using medicine, he at least had enough sense to meticulously preserve it for it's need. There's also the fact that Lingard was David's friend & co-leader who got on his case about doing so in working to break him out of the habit compared to Clementine and AJ being a brand new member that went against strict orders and a sick baby that was deemed unlikely to recover, let alone with medicine that likely wouldn't really help with his specific sickness anyway.
Also, I need to check, but does Clint say that in that scenario and/or the other?
More forced romance. No long diatribe about this, it’s just there and I don’t like it, and now they’ve added a last minute addition with Tripp and Eleanor in a last ditch effort to do something with their characters.
To be slightly generous here, Eleanor and Tripp having been a thing in the past was established in Part 1 if you snuck out with the former on horseback. Regardless of how literally you feel "it was, like, five minutes" was, it didn't work out.
With that said, it was indeed a laughably shitty attempt at character development for the unacceptably inconsistent Guardian. And the fact that he and Eleanor react to the news that Kate is David's [Trophy] Wife and thus not with Javier regardless of your actual choices and interactions does suck.
And just because I outta
The episode sets up a sort of political conflict, with David talking about the need for allies and how politics in Richmond get messy. It sounds like they’re setting up for this huge civil war inside Richmond, where factions break out and alliances are made, and your choices could determine who wins. That all sounds very interesting, but that never ends up happening.
Yeah, Thicker than Water and From the Gallows were apparently completely rewritten late into production in the span of 1+ month. That almost certainly led to all of the egregious plot points and even major characters being dropped.
Though that's more accurately a problem with those episodes, as Above the Law was deadset on making it and by extension the menu cards for the following episodes happen.
And the biggest thing wrong with this episode, and I guess you can tally this up with pacing issues but it deserves its own bullet point, one of the most emotional moments in this season is completely ruined because of the game’s desire to focus on action. Clem telling Javi about AJ and then the two of them hugging, honestly, that’s one of the best parts of the entire game, and then, not 10 seconds later, it goes right back into the action, with little to no break to absorb what just happened. Our mind, instead of thinking about what we just saw and analyzing the impact it should have on these characters, is now immediately put on pressing the right buttons and not messing up.
...Eh.
Nah, I see what you mean. That is indeed an objective issue.
(I’m planning on going a bit more into detail about Clem’s attachment to AJ in my review for Episode 3, looking to have it up by the end of this week)
Again, this is something I will spend A LOT more time talking about in my review for Episode 3. I’m doing a whole ANF review series where I look at each individual episode and talk about its flaws. I have videos up regarding the first two episodes as well as one about some early development info about the game.
Oh, okay, cool to hear that, man! Looking forward to eventually seeing those.
* Like most of the episodes this series, shoddy pacing. The beginning didn’t start off too bad, it was slow but it did attempt to develop th… moree characters and give background on the New Frontier. Granted it doesn’t make much sense because of conflicting information and numerous rewrites, but at least the attempt was made. The second half, however, feels rushed like the rest of the series. It goes at a breakneck pace from one place to another.
* Kate’s actions and her reasoning don’t make much sense. I know these are the people that killed Mari, but they also healed you up from your wound and you’re going to live, yet somehow she thinks this place is a cage and feels bad about this place. She’s been confined to the hospital room, she has no reason to think this.
* The incredible and ridiculous standard Richmond has of accepting people. Seriously, they kick Javi out because he unknowingly stole their gas and call him a bandit (hypocritical much… [view original content]
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When did he say it was awful?
There's a difference between the writers hating us and being bad. They're probably doing their best, but they are simply not experienced enough.
Deadlines do have an impact on writing. Someone who plots and constructs a story for a year will in most cases have a better story than someone who has three or for weeks to get it done.
Management was a huge reason why ANF turned out the way it did. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were written by a completely different team than the remaining three episodes. Many writers from the old team had left Telltale after ANF premiered which resulted in a complete writers room replacement. The 'Ties That Bind' episodes were in developement hell, which is no secret, since those first two episodes are literally all over the place. The rest of the season, which - again - was pretty much handled by a different team, felt a little aimless to me. It felt like they wrote the story as it progressed, with not much of a build up for anything. Everything just happens. Not, because it makes narratively or thematically sense, but because it just needed to happen so the story could continue.
For example: Badger ended up more important than he was supposed to be - at least in episode 3 - because they needed him for a particular scene. Why do i think that he wasn't supposed to be that important? Because of how shitty he looked. No, really! His character model looks more like a character you would see in the background than a character, who's more or less important. Just compare his model-work with those of Max, Clint or even Francine, who has much much less screentime.
The story of ANF (eps. 3 - 5) felt more like the very first draft of a screenplay than a fully revised version of the same story. The new team just didn't had the time to revise their script.
I think the better question is: what is the worst episode of season 3?
I don't know if it's entirely the fault of the writers, sure they may not have been the best, but the fact that KB insisted on having probably overworked and burned out 7 writers per episode on a deadline while forcing Telltale to vomit out 3 other games definitely had some impact on ANF's quality
I get that, but there's also a difference between them being just bad and them being pushed into a very shitty corner and being forced to develope a new script in a fraction of the time they normally need.
It's almost like those type of things probably shouldn't be in the game we got and were shoehorned in anyway because it appealed to someone.
Ties That Bind 2 (Its more like a 9/10 vs a 6.5/10 sooo really not that drastic as most). The pacing was breakneck at times with the group constantly being on the move. There's hardly any breathing room for both routes where even if your with Kate and the group its a quick scene of stitching her up and walking through a barren town, and getting a water bottle before checking up on Gabe, which is a nice scene in its own right, but immediately after that the episode just doesn't stop. Sure there's the rest stop but then the group is just off again. It really could have used a lot more breathing room, and Clem interactions for good measure at least so that her reveal of joining ANF comes off as more shocking.
The Conrad choice is dumb mainly for deciding to kill the guy cause "muh Clementine" Seriously if you killed him you are no better than the New frontier, and the consequences of killing him don't mean anything except for a little scene with Tripp "Uh sorry Tripp he kinda just died" "Aw okay Javi
". I normally don't mind shorter episodes but as a episode its incredibly brief. Ties that Bind as a singular experience is great imo, but its wasting a whole episode slot when it really could have just been a 2.5 hr long premiere so I'm gonna give it a little shit.
Really now? I mean, the thoughts kinda right with the timeframe, but if so, the episode 3 people clearly did their homework and tried to work in what they could.
Joan's character derailment is one of the bigger examples of that.
Pretty damn much.
Graysonn's gamedelving further confirmed it, as he was supposed to be the one driving Javier to Richmond in the truck, hence why he was at the junkyard alongside Max's crew.
More or less answering that here.
From the Gallows. I actually do sorta like ANF, but that episode was a fucking trainwreck.
Admittedly, I did give a fairly large bit of attention into all that when I was rewriting the episode.
The semi-constantly on the move feeling of the episode didn't bother me too much, but it did occur to me that another freewalk or at least a more wayside cinematic sequence could've potentially been nice.
There are other reasons to consider doing so beyond, for better or worse, but yeah, I agree.
I do feel like things such as Joan, The Council, and Richmond in general, and to an extent, the Garcia-Prescott group dynamics could've used another episode to really breathe with the running time ANF got stuck with.
Well, it's a 9/10, guys, not a very horribly paced episode full of wtfs and literally nothing else lol. How are people no better than this group of uncontrolled animals who murder as they see fit? As opposed to Conrad, who's noble and ERMAGERD U WAS FRIEND gon kill ya nephew uncle Javi!! You the boss though, you do what you gotta, until episode 4 anyway.
SolidStryder, you are gonna accept my shitty opinion and you are gonna like it!
He's right--at least Conrad wasn't a quacker.
Ain't that right, Shoula?
So defending my own family makes it worse than a bunch of heartless bastards who kill people and steal their stuff?
They were both trash
Obviously, the whole game was trash
From the Gallows is worse, no question about it. Usually I’m a guy that, after watching or playing something, will try to look for the good in it, but then after thinking about it, notice it’s flaws. It’s usually an attempt to justify the experience to myself I guess. FtG’s problems I saw right off the bat and hated immediately after finishing. Pt. 2 is bad, but for all of its problems, it’s a master piece compared to the clusterfuck that was FtG.
Plot lines left unfinished, no playable Clem section, character fates left a mystery, rushed deaths, poorly executed “emotional” moments, characters constantly making questionable decisions or doing things that don’t make sense, sudden shifts in motivations, more forced romance, an unavoidable climactic fight with our brother that ignores all previous choices, Clem’s new outfit, rushed pacing, jumping from one moment to another with no breaks, a Clem recap choice screen to deceive us and give the illusion that what we did as her actually mattered, and an insulting and vile interpretation of soldiers through the character of David are just the things I can gather off the top of my head.
Again, Pt. 2 is bad, and if you want my thoughts on it, you can watch my new review for it (I’m working on the others and am making my way to Episode 5), but FtG is worse in almost every single manner of speaking.
Eh, Thicker Than Water was actually a pretty decent episode. Not amazing by any stretch, it had problems, but it wasn’t all that bad. I certainly liked it more than Around Every Corner, Amid the Ruins, and every episode from the Michonne mini series. The rest of the episodes are garbage, but Thicker does deserve some credit.
Of course not.
A bit of a kneecapped joke there referencing Janiacs.
Yeah, it is a guilty pleasure.
Above the Law is my personal favorite, though.
Eh, personally disagree. I've been seriously rewatching ANF and I just hate all of it, except maybe (just maybe) Ties That Bind: Part One, only because some of the early moments have sparks of potential and Clementine isn't that bad/different. But at the same time I love S2/Michonne when most people don't so don't trust my tastes
I also love S2, almost as much as S1, and I did get enjoyment out of Michonne as well. I’m just trying to give credit where I think credit is due. TtW is a decent to good episode due to some actually good character moments, relatively even pacing, and the longest and best Clem playable segment. Of course the episode has its problems, a lot of which are the same I have with the season as a whole (forced romance, which is at its worst here, undeveloped villains, and a disappointing payoff to what the previous episode set up, that being a political battle between different factions within Richmond, causing a sort of civil war within the community, how cool would that have been).
Same
I agree. Hey, what were the problems with Above The Law again? Strange, but I'm starting to think that was a decent episode too. I know one big problem is how when talking about Mariana's fate, Joan and Clint make it seem like only David and his soldiers are getting in trouble but truly nothing different happens and Javi still gets exiled. Not only that, but characters like Tripp didn't steal any gas or anything. He had to open fire to defend his town.
Both were lackluster.I liked ep 4 more and even that I forgot the episode's name ? that game is this bad sadly.
Thanks man.
My only big issue when the episode came out was how Conrad's animosity with Clementeen(and to a lesser extent the New Frontier) just kinda stopped being a thing, which is a shame since it had a big hand in making things more interesting for the group dynamics and made her presence tolerable.
With that said, there were also little things like the lack of at least one proper hub area, Tripp fully becoming a loudmouthed idiot with a laughable excuse for character development regardless of your choice regarding Conrad, and Gabe & especially Kate being left out of much of the episode's events and not getting much focus.
To be fair on the first part, we don't know what they talked to Max about after Joan had the Council Guard escort Javier out, so it's entirely possible that they intended to do something about Badger upon his return if his rogue actions came up.
Javier still gets exiled because he was deemed untrustworthy due to essentially stealing from them, attacking Lonnie, possibly killing Rufus, and having some connection to Clementine. Plus, it can also be seen as foreshadowing that Joan might've suspected him of threatening to her secret operation and so had an extra reason to go ahead and have him removed from Richmond.
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure why he and possibly Paul were kicked out other than possibly being deemed guilty by association--assuming The New Frontier don't know who the latter is at least.
Okay, let's take a look at this for discussion and observation purposes:
Yeah, you can really tell that they did their homework and thought the storytelling choices, making good use of those 3[+] months as much as they could.
I suppose it's fair to say that Clementine flashback aside, the actual plot with Javier, determinately Conrad, David, Max, and Badger does accelerate to some form of resolution and/or ammendment relatively quickly.
Fear isn't always rational, though in this case, I'd say she was at least responding to it in a reasonable enough manner. She mainly just told Javier to be careful & promise they'd be able to leave eventually and only really pushed for doing so once she realized David challenging Joan would inevitably cause tensions amongst the community with the family/group in the middle of it. And it's not like she was wrong about suspecting something wasn't right about the city, considering it was secretly running on supplies stolen from other settlements and originally belonged to another group to begin with.
I think the combination of him doing that, escaping Rufus's custody, having collaborated with Clemetine, and getting into it all with Max in the first place killed what chance Javier had of meeting their standards due to David's credibility as a Leader being increasingly called into question with all that & Badger's behavior .
A bit of headcanon/prediction on my part, but I kinda got the vibe that Joan's Party may have conquered the city during her time separate from the others. Or at the very least, took down the original leadership so the Council could take it's place with David's Soldiers as it's new security force. Whether she managed this on her own, with Clint, David, and/or Lingard's help, or actually had a Norma situation of another hostile group moving in before The New Frontier did is up in the air.
...Okay, admittedly that line doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you actually think about it.
I realized that when talking about David's credibility.
Which is funny, considering how the two endings of the episode actually do work with that.
Okay, we're going into obscure observations here, but I kinda got the sense that Joan(and ultimately Clint, probably even moreso...) carried a lot of clout amongst the group, as not only did she manage to get Max, Badger, and later Clint on her side regarding the raids and/or David's dethroning, but even David cites her as siding with him regarding kicking out Clementine to get Lingard to back down from arguing with him.
Also, if it makes you feel any better, they were probably just banking on Lingard disapproving of Javier's character as well and Joan rushed the group out before actually consulting him.
They were all going along with it by being convinced that it is indeed a necessary sacrifice to prevent a similar loss as with the first Winter and ensure the survival of both The New Frontier and Richmond. After all, she convinced Max and possibly most of the soldiers under his & Badger's command on those grounds--why wouldn't she be able to convince Clint?
In Lingard's case, it could be a combination of both realizing that the people needs medicine to have higher chances at surviving and wanting to try to object to help David, but not being able to do much of anything in his confliction and thus declaring that his hands are tied.
It's also definitely worth noting that it's collectively implied that most of the raids were planned out to be carried out with relatively and without completely destroying the other settlements. Prescott was only raided and burned to the ground because of Badger.
Karma! Karma, Karma, Karma!
Yeah, it's kinda bullshit, but David was the only one objecting to what was essentially The New Frontier's survival and so they deemed him a threat. That he and his men had caused a number of problems leading up to that point didn't help.
Though in the case of AJ and Lingard, it's never really stated what Lingard was using to get high and in the event he was using medicine, he at least had enough sense to meticulously preserve it for it's need. There's also the fact that Lingard was David's friend & co-leader who got on his case about doing so in working to break him out of the habit compared to Clementine and AJ being a brand new member that went against strict orders and a sick baby that was deemed unlikely to recover, let alone with medicine that likely wouldn't really help with his specific sickness anyway.
Also, I need to check, but does Clint say that in that scenario and/or the other?
To be slightly generous here, Eleanor and Tripp having been a thing in the past was established in Part 1 if you snuck out with the former on horseback. Regardless of how literally you feel "it was, like, five minutes" was, it didn't work out.
With that said, it was indeed a laughably shitty attempt at character development for the unacceptably inconsistent Guardian. And the fact that he and Eleanor react to the news that Kate is David's [Trophy] Wife and thus not with Javier regardless of your actual choices and interactions does suck.
And just because I outta
Yeah, Thicker than Water and From the Gallows were apparently completely rewritten late into production in the span of 1+ month. That almost certainly led to all of the egregious plot points and even major characters being dropped.
Though that's more accurately a problem with those episodes, as Above the Law was deadset on making it and by extension the menu cards for the following episodes happen.
...Eh.
Nah, I see what you mean. That is indeed an objective issue.
Oh, okay, cool to hear that, man! Looking forward to eventually seeing those.