If you could completely rewrite ANF, what would you change about it?
What the title says. I assume it's been done before, if so, I apologize.
Personally, I would make Clementine the protag and have her meet Javi on her own, rather than us being forced into pre-established relationships.
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Oh yeah, there was a thread or two loosely based in this sort of idea a while back. Was interesting experiment.
Could be interesting to revisit the idea with less inhibition in-depth.
Season 3 would have to be a total rewrite...I have posted this elsewhere but this is expanded with characters and plot points.
Episode 1: For All Seasons
We start as the beginning of ANF started.which I thought was extremely well done. The first episode would deal with Hector and the 3 Months staying in the house. Dealing with bandits that try to take their stuff who were friends of David and Kate...Kate would save Javi's life....end with them leaving the house.
Javier Garcia arrives too late to be there when his father passes...David and he get into a heated argument and David punches Javi out of anger and grief. Gabe comes out to see them fighting on the ground. The anger they both feel is replaced with grief and shame. They send Gabe back in and David offers to help Javi back up.
DAVID: "You fight harder than you did when we were kids." Rubbing his jaw....blood drips from a split lip as he tosses Javi a beer.
JAVIER:"Yeah and you still hit like a pile driver...sorry." He uses the cool can to ease some of the pain from a shiner that is growing from his left eye. "How is it that we always do this David? Are we just this stupid that we always have to fight before we can move on from an argument?"
DAVID:"Well remember what papa always said...."
JAVIER AND DAVID:"Dear Lord...What sins did I do to have two boys like you idiots!" They laugh.
DAVID:"I love you little brother, you know that right?"
Javier:"My face will remember that." or "Fuck off." "I know, I love you too David"
With a just a little more conversation here....David and Javi actually come off as more loving. It is always the little things that makes or breaks a scene.
We pass to Javier and Kate in the van with the kids and uncle Hector trying to get to the hospital....David had sped past an intersection right before Humvees block the path....
Kate rolls down the window to talk to the soldiers.
KATE:"Please we have to get through...my husband was taking his mother to the hospital and we need to be there for her."
Soldier 1:"Sorry ma'am, our orders are to block off this section of the city, riots have caused a fire down near the university and there seems to be more of those things...
It is here that Hector goes to talk and they see his bite...he is brutally murdered and Kate runs over one of the guards as they escape and get back home.
Episode 2: Time to Live
Would finish out the first year of the apocalypse the van gets a flat and Javi goes for set in an auto shop. Kate has her hands full with the kids as Gabe runs off because he sees a car that looks like the one his father left in. (You would play as Kate as you have to save Gabe...bonding moment for Kate and the Kids)
Episode 3: Time to Die
Year 2 of the apocalypse...the kids are growing and finding clothes is an adventure in itself as is teaching them how to survive when Kate and Javi themselves are just barely making it. They meet a man name Eric who is dying of cancer...he teaches Kate and Javi some survival tricks.(This is a character building episode) Eric asks only one thing...they watch over him and make sure he does not turn when he dies. We learn Kate's mother died of cancer. Javi and Kate share their feelings for each other.
Episode 4: Time to Laugh
Even in the apocalypse there are worse things than walkers....carnies. A community made up of people who are used to living on the road..this traveling group sets up for one hell of a carnival. But in the apocalypse nothing is as it seems...the bright lights and music draws the walkers to the carnies who try and thin out the herds so communities can grow. The entertainment gets deadly when a hurricane hits just as the largest herd ever seen descends on them. Purely an adventure episode giving the kids some time to enjoy the carnival atmosphere (stay away from the 100% all natural hot dogs). Year 3 ends
Episode 5: Time to Cry
The beginning of the 4th year of the apocalypse and we find Javi and Kate sleeping together in an abandoned hotel...outside of a Six Flags...the kids remember a time when their mother was alive and they stayed at the same hotel. Flashbacks to show a softer side of David. A gang of Bandits try to catch Kate and the Kids...The Hotel burns as the Garcia clan tries to escape the bandits and a herd of burning walkers....Final scene shows them on the road passing a sign that reads Prescott Airfield.
Heck, I prefer A New Frontier.
Cancel A New Frontier and revive the actual Season 3.
Throw the Garcias in the garbage instead of S2 endings
The problem with ANF was we were set with people we had no clue about...yet the first situation we run into makes us have to have a conversation about what a piece of work we are without context. No one got any back story except we knew Javi was a ball player....that is not character development..that is character assassination.
I'd just omit Clementine. Any other girl who could have escaped from The New Frontier could fit that role (and It'd make much more sense), and they wouldn't have messed with the endings. I would treat Javier's story like a spin off, not like a continuation of Clem's story.
I would have a s2 flashback in every episode, showing Clementines time with whoever she stayed with in each episode. In episode 4 we would get the episode 1 flashback that we actually got. Then in episode 5 we would get a flashback of the aftermath where Clem could bury her friend and reflect on everything that happened in order to move forward.
Absolutely not. Like I've said many times before, in video games you can play as anyone. It was not in one point in my initial playthrough that I felt wierd by playing as Javi. And rightfully so, ANF Clem was a mess. IN VIDEO GAMES YOU CAN PLAY AS ANYONE. Their backstories can be revealed to you throughout the game and it doesn't feel strange at all, it actually doesn't. This is just what a lot of people say as criticisms for ANF. Truthfully, the writing is poorly done which makes the game bad, it's not the premise which instantly makes it bad. There was no way out for the end of s2, the endings were just too diverse. They dug their own coffin, and they had to ressurect Clem by throwing in a new set of characters who had aligning goals with her for the time being. Eventually that relationship growns into a full-blown friendship. Now that she was out of the grave and had her own story set, the Garcias story concluded. Javi proclaimed ''my work here is done'', tipped his fedora to Hero Clem, and he dissapeared into the depths of nothingness. That was the true meaning of ANF. They didn't want to do it that way (premise-wise, not story-wise) but they had to.
My point is, in video games you can play as anyone. A ballerina who works the day-shift in her mom's patisserie baking pastries. Her dad was murdered at the age of 9, and she's had a few run-ins with the law since then. Or a recruit at the Police Force, after their leader dies and the police becomes dysfunctional, and the recruit learns his family is already dead, he sets out with whoever is left of the force to defeat some walkers. It doesn't seem strange or nerving to play as someone else. I already explained why ANF had to be what it was in my last paragraph. Finding out Javi had gambling problems and got a lifetime ban was not distressing at all. Players don't remark on it because it's not a problem. The problem is the writing. Don't blame ''we had new characters thrust on us'' the problem is how s2's endings were so diverse.
For the record, I don't think your story is as good as A New Frontier. It's practically Michonne-level, you just insert bandits to institute dilemmas and cause discord for the group.
After the shocking events of 'Ties That Bind: Part Two', Javier struggles to find a role in his newly reunited family. Meanwhile, tension within the walls of Richmond grow. Will Clementine and the rest of the group turn against Javier? It may be time to choose between the family you’re born into and the family you've made.
Upon discovering the true nature of the New Frontier's leadership, relationships within the Garcia family have come to a head. As Javier, you will decide the shape and nature of your chosen family. All the while, a herd of walkers moves ever closer to Richmond, putting pressure on allies and enemies alike. With distrust running rampant, you'll have to determine if blood is thicker than water...
Walkers flood the New Frontier camp, leaving Javier, Clementine, and their allies in a tight spot. Tensions within the Garcia family rise to a boiling point. With past promises looming over your head, how will you choose who to trust, and who to protect?
The beginning of the 4th year of the apocalypse and we find Javi and Kate sleeping together in an abandoned hotel...outside of a Six Flags...the kids remember a time when their mother was alive and they stayed at the same hotel. Flashbacks to show a softer side of David. A gang of Bandits try to catch Kate and the Kids...The Hotel burns as the Garcia clan tries to escape the bandits and a herd of burning walkers....Final scene shows them on the road passing a sign that reads Prescott Airfield.
For one, you don't put in true development with characters, something that ANF attempted to do. In addition, you treat the kids like true kids. Actually, this would be a great game if it were a full game without episodes and not a telltale game, like The Last Of Us.
Ava or Mariana could've easily taken her role, so the story would've been more cohesive and meaningful.
Where exactly did ANF try to do character development? It never did. Clem could have been any teen...Gabe was just a parody of an angst filled teen. Trip was basically a rent a pal...following your decisions even though it is basically your fault his friends and town are gone.
Michonne was a better story than ANF...because it had villains that had clear motivations and shade of grey.
As for your point in videogames you can play as anyone..sure...but not in story driven games. You need to know your people or start off with a nominally neutral situation that slowly feeds you the info...see the season one beginning. The fact is we never really get to know Javier...never learn what team he played for...never have any background on kate...just that somehow she is the person that holds them together.
On every level ANF was a failure. Question...what was Tripp's name? What did he do? Who ran Prescott? Who ran Richmond before the NF got there?
Oh, it did! It just wasn't given as much time as it ultimately needed and people just choose to pretend it wasn't there at all.
Ch'yeah.
The funny thing about that though is that, while he superficially looked the part, he seemed to be a more generous and layered take on the steroetype.
Even with the step backward in Thicker than Water, he seemed more like your general kid who wants to help out than an emo.
On that, I can mostly agree.
Hey, Max and [initially] Joan weren't exactly psychos either, to be fair.
Oh yeah, definitely.
If you mean before the outbreak, that's in the AMA, but I agree.
In relation to Prescott though, he just seemed to be the main Guardian/Sheriff.
That was probably gonna be answered be the rewrites made it moot, but apparently friends of ThatPaulGuy.
See, the reason all the info on Lee was shown at the start was because it was key to his story. He's labelled as a murderer who's given a second chance at life. Granted, they did a similiar thing with Javi making him a pro baseballer(is that a word?) with gambling issues, making him not excactly a hero. The thing with Javi is that we don't need to know about his lifetime ban, we need to know that he has problems with his family and he is absent at many family 'gatherings'. Making his relationship with them relatively distant and dysfunctional. This is integral to the story. Just like Lee being incarcerated.
Yeah, also because it was a short miniseries which was just about Michonne dealing with loss every 2 minutes. It's my opinion but In Too Deep is one of the worst episodes of all time, probably as bad as FTG, though that had more actual problems and loose threads. It's extremely one-note with no hard choices or conflicting thoughts, simply because the game makes players feel they are an experienced badass and that everyone is below them, except of course her friends, and that Siddiq guy is so boring and basic. The story was constantly heading in one direction. ANF has more going for it... and it failed yeah. In hindsight, Michonne's story was completely irrelevant to her coping with her haunting past. I could be wrong, but it doesn't teach her anything. She just gets invloved for some people and then leaves them to go back to the comic, nice. At the very least, with Javi we find out David isn't dead and is part of the New Frontier, who killed Mari. But Michonne's story is what? Get captured, escape, find Brenda, kill her, all's well that ends's well. Hey, that kind of sounds like ANF but whatever. Essentially, it isn't 'cool' enough to be a memorable and worthwhile experience to Michonne. But that's just an opinion and I have nothing against you for thinking otherwise. My actual point is about playing as other characters.
Let me start by saying that I like Javier as a character. I think he was interesting and I had fun exploring his past, personality etc. That being said, I'm still kind of sad that we didn't had a chance to play as Clementine (except for some flashbacks). As far as I'm concerned, the main TWD series from Tellale was always the story of Clementine, how she deals with the new world and how she manages to grow up in it. I don't think that ANF was as bad as some claim, though it wasn't good either. All I'm trying to say is that I still don't quite understand why they went from Clementine being a protagonist in Season 2 to a deuteragonist in ANF.
Long story short - I'd rewrite ANF so the protagonist of the story would be either Clementine or a character we already knew from previous seasons. Javier as a character was cool but I'd be much happier with him still being in ANF (or season 3) but maybe as just another character like Kenny, Molly or Walter.
Make Conrad the playable character don't @ me
I love how you were privy enough to specify A deuteragonist.
What can I say?
Believe me or not, I actually encountered people (not necessarily here) that didn't even knew the difference between a protagonist and deuteragonist. True story!
That doesn't surprise me too much, considering one has a french prefix and is more than three syllables long.
Although, tbf, the two sometimes blur the lines more than they should.
Also, I was referring to how there were, like, four different qualifiers .
Yeah, that's true. Of course to clarify things, I meant that Clementine went from a playable main character to a non-playable npc (flashbacks not included). That was, in my opinion, a mistake on Telltale's part. Like I said, they either should've stayed with Clem as playable character or make a character known from previous season as a playable one. Javier and his family were fine but were more fit as a regular NPCs.
This.
In video games you can play as anyone, YOU DON'T TRY TO STREAMLINE IT BY INCLUDING PLAYER CHOICES. I didn't give a shit about uncle Javi and his shit stain family, I expected the third game in a series that actively markets itself and notifies us of what impact our decisions have to not expect us to choose the "right" decisions because we're playing as a character. You and anyone who feels this way have an entire market of games that simply tell a story without player input on the characters personality or decisions. ANF went full retard when you're not supposed to go full retard, uncle Javi couldn't speak Spanish if his life depended on it, Gabe and Kate were unlikeable douchbags, and his supporting cast literally told him he's the boss, after knowing him for a damned day.
I admit this would be very ambitious and for that reason I would bump up the price of the game to 40-50€. I would have 5 different versions of the 1st Episode depending on your s2 endings. Also the 1st episode would be the shortest of all the episodes coz of the different versions.
Going to keep my versions of the episodes bried af. Just the main ideas of each version.
For example,
Howe's, Rejecting Family: The family returns with a group they have recently joined and they capture Howe's to make it their home. Clem, AJ and Jane(forget the pregnancy) ultimately have to escape.
Accepting: Food is getting scarce because there is 3 more mouths to feed. The family steals whats left of their food and resources and escape. This forces Clem, AJ and Jane to leave Howe's to go scavange for supplies.
In both of these variations you explore Howe's and interact with other characters at the start of the episode.
With Kenny: Clem and Kenny are on the road, searching anywhere they can for supplies. Kenny thinks that finding a group would be safer for all of them, especially AJ, so they try to find people on the process. Idk what else could happen in this episode. Probably just a boat load of quality time with Kenny and AJ.
Wellington: Basically the whole episode could be about everyday life at Wellington but a epidemic starts in the community and lots of people get sick. Supplies start getting used at a rapid pace because of treatment. Eventually the epidemic causes havoc at Wellington and there could be riots and such but it would eventually cause the place to collapse and would force Clem, AJ and possibly Edith to move on.
Alone: Clem hunting,scavanging, doing anything she can to keep herself and AJ alive. Again I would need the help of a professional writer to add more content into this version and the Kenny version
Anyway, everyone would end up in a similar episode 2 except with different people (Jane/Kenny/Edith) or even just Clem by herself. All endings have to be discarded pretty much anyway coz otherwise everyone's whole season would have to be different.
The rest of the episodes:
Clem, AJ and the determinant people she's with join David's New Frontier. They prove themselves to be worthy new members by helping the group and they get branded. Eventually AJ gets sick but the NF refuses to 'waste' medical supplies on him. Kenny is very protective and obviously would get aggressive towards the group while Jane would more or less agree/understand the groups opinion. I would imagine that Edith would disagree but nevertheless step in line just to not cause any trouble. Anyway they steal meds to give to AJ so NF captures Clem and Co and tie them to a tree or something and leave them, taking AJ with them. Then the rest of the season would be about searching for AJ. They would find out that David took him to Richmond so they obviously go after AJ. During the process Clem's Co would die I guess so it would follow up to the upcoming TFS.
Ik this was a very rough draft, but I think ANF should've been more or less like this. Actually continuing Clem's story, Building the relationship between Clem and AJ, making the S2 endings matter more than a scar, answering to the marketing of "The Biggest Season Yet"
I would've removed clem from it.simple because that game is so messed up there's no true solution to it ?
Yeah, admittedly, I'm having a tough time thinking of several things to change and how to do so without just parroting much collectively minor/petty things I already have or completely uprooting what A New Frontier or even "Season 3" were fundamentally meant to be.
When you look at it, Clementine did play an important role in ANF by being an disgruntled ex-New Frontier member. It was sort of interesting to have my 'best friend' be part of the 'bad guys'.
I can see your struggles, since you can't just rip off Clem and then leave the story as it is. She attributed a heavy amount to the first impressions of Richmond David, creating conflict between the characters - including Jesus, thus making him not just a character who was there for no reason, especially in the 'open the door for David' scene in episode 3. If you ripped her off, players' opinions of David would be different, but I digress, it's certainly possible. After pondering about it for about 6 hours, I've come to the conclusion that, to fix ANF, the only true way to do it whilst keeping the New Frontier dynamic is to just fix the dozens of loose threads without changing anything too much because it would just leave a lot more ripples and plot holes.
Pokemon Sun and Moon: From The Gallows!
In stores now! Each booster card contains 10 cards, cards vary by pack.
Doesn't From The Gallows sound like a pokemon TCG expansion name?
Hmph. "Best friend."
I mean, you can ...you just have to either take proper advantage of not having her or simply replace her with another character that could fit the role and/or have a similar presence.
_Did _she?
More or less.
so here are some ideas that i have on the season 2 endings:
Kenny: Essentially have a choice where you can try to drag Kenny to safety which would make a gameplay section like Wyatt s one in 400 days where you drag kenny and stop to shoot any walkers that come towards you.
The 2nd flashback would happen on the same day as the first one (( i mean the ava one.)) except it would be night and clementine would still be trying to get Kenny to a safe place ((with Kenny still being awake due to how extremely stubborn he is.)) but then teleporting walkers appear surprounding them clem tries to shoot only to find out she ran out of bullets and get put into a situation where either she leaves Kenny or tries to fight off all the walkers risking everyone s life in what could be a hopeless scenario... but it wouldnt really matter what you pick here since gunshots would be fired revealing Ava with her group who had been around the area.
They d then carry Kenny out towards their camp leaving Clem to talk with Ava while Ava questions clem about how she survived this long , how many people she killed ((pretty much just to see if she s trustworthy althought there would obviously be options to ask Ava stuff about herself and the new frontier too.))
Afterwards Kenny would be a side character and be stuck on a wheelchair due to the car accident and have a deep hatred for David over him kicking out Clementine.
he wouldnt appear alot after that just some small possible scenes in episode 3 which would only happen if you approach him on a possible hub in episode 3 ((This hub section would happen after you talk to David and he tells you that Kate wants to talk to you and he goes ahead towards the hospital leaving Javi with a choice to either go to the hospital from the start or explore richmond to get some dialogue and see how the community works.))
Id also put Kenny in episode 5 together with the other people in Eleanor s safehouse while also getting a goodbye scene at the end of episode 5 with Clem setting out and Kenny being proud of how much she d grown.
Wellington: So for Wellington i wouldnt change much except id bring back the deleted scenes that got cut off and id end the flashback with Edith getting separated from Clementine in the middle of the shootout making Clementine have to escape with AJ ((i would have also have added more flashbacks for wellington to show the community and have Edith interact more with Clem but i dont think it would work out to have flashbacks that wouldnt be relevant to what s happening in the present... althought i do think wellington should have gotten more screentime since s2 talked about the place all the time.))
Jane: I ll probably edit my ideas on Jane here dont worry i wont leave anyone ´´Hanging´´ ((But for real thought even if i do hate post episode 4 Jane i still think having her commit suicide wasnt that great of a way to kill her off.))
Alone ending: I dont think there s anything id change about it.
Personally I'd rewrite the entire story, remove characters like Joan, Badger, Gabe and David and either replace them or do away with their characters all together. I'd increase the length of each episode to Season 1/Game of Thrones Length but make 3 playable characters, a hero/anti hero, Clementine (who would get a proper conclusion to her arc) and for once an antagonist.
Easier said than done but that seems cool
The option to make Clem completely hostile to Javi.
They end up buddies in the end no matter what.
Forgot to actual post this stuff.
You know, I saw that Shoula had contributed last night, but didn't feel like writing much at that point.
I know this is basically parroting my other stuff, but these are the first overhauls that come to mind
Randy, Patricia, and Gil's time at Howe's would get more elaboration.
More onscreen character development and back-story.
Here are other assorted things I remember considering:
*Clementine, AJ, and Jane become under a huge walker attack, which leads to the flashback ending with her willingly uses herself as bait when it's apparent there's not many places to run by vocally echoing her old ways to get Clementine and the 1.5/1.75yo AJ to leave her;
* David is dethroned and in a sense hijacked by Joan, who learned about the raids from Max/Badger a little while back but told them to play along until she gave them further instructions. Now, she's playing damage control in an effort to cover up what David and Badger have done. This is mainly to maintain/repair Richmond's relationship with the outside world while still holding onto the supplies until after the next long Winter is over.
* Clementine willingly left the New Frontier because she committed a grievous crime while among them. She didn't want to go into Richmond after learning they were there because AJ was living there after she gave him up and she was afraid [another] one of David's soldiers would put 2&2 together.
* Instead, Clementine has another flashback showing off her friendship with Ava a little more--possibly including her first time near Prescott. These further hints at the idea that Ava may actually be quite fatalistic despite her chummy disposition, encouraging words, and motherly undertones. The episode 4 flashback plays afterward. And Ava's reaction to seeing Clementine again in the present is influenced by both.
* Gabe's determinant outburst is given more buildup here:
* Clementine and Gabe come into minor conflict regarding David depending on your respective relationships with them(particularly if you were pro-Clementine and/or Kate, but not good with Gabe throughout). Eleanor/Kate will back her/him up, respectively.
* It is possible for a fight to break out between the two.
* Instead of being blatantly railroaded, Javier is given a choice to support Gabe when Tripp singles him out. However, be warned that this can damage your determinately already festering relationships with Clementine and Kate.
Kenny/Jane stay alive
Shoot Gabe instead of Mariana.
I do like the whole Javier and Kate thing especially the weed and sex jokes.
Kate getting to actually call out her husband on being an abusive dick with Javi there to protect her.
The possibility to imply Ava and Clem were closer during her stay if that plot absolutely has to stay. Otherwise she never joined the new frontier. Thanks was a stupid choice. " Did Clem join the new frontier with Ava or when she came back later"
Jesus talks more about his group
Mariana has to choose between her loyalties to her father or her loyalty to Javi and Kate and Clem
AJ actually being in ANF not on a ranch somewhere
Clemiana
Eleanor being a legitimate romance even though I preferred Kate
Queue "Clem as protag" comments. I'm gonna be one of them.
I honestly didn't mind ANF's background story, the biggest problem was the focus on the relations of a single family. ANF should have been about Clementine proving her worth to the new community and actually surviving to live with it.
My big problem with season 2 is that's it's just a continuation of the misery season 1 ended with, it wasn't interesting because everything turned to crap constantly. I don't mind hardship and a challenge, but it's important that the player could have a goal besides "survival" it's about time Clementine gets a character arc that isn't only dependent on that. She should develop with other survivors and give us the option to choose the kind of opinions she'd develop towards other people and how society should work.
What telltale tends to forget is that the whole story gets boring when everyone dies extremely quickly. No emotional connection gets formed properly, especially because of the short episode length and amount of episodes. There's a reason why people talk so much about Molly, Lily, Christa and Kenny. Those are the characters we knew from farthest back that might still be alive.
I would do more character development, have more charismatic characters as in previous seasons. Javier could even be the main character, would make a story worthy of TWD's telltale.