No I wouldn’t leave a “9” year old to die in a zombie apocalypse. If i was physically able to save a kid of course i would especially if it was my daughter, i’d die for her but what you are saying implies that Vernon deliberately left her which he didn’t and let me explain.
Vernon offered to take Clementine with him when he spoke to Lee and i would bet he would have taken her with him when they stole the boat if she was there so you implying Vernon left Clementine behind deliberately is completely erroneous. He wasn’t monsterous, you could clearly see that he cared, he had raised a daughter before. He wrote a letter explaining his actions and how bad he felt about taking the boat and leaving Clem (because she wasn’t there at the time if the boat was left unguarded) or did you not get that version in your game? If Ben stayed behind to watch the boat he says that Vernon got pissed when he told him that Lee had lost Clem and she was missing.
So you see there are two sides to every coin and like it or not Vernon isn’t a piece of shit as you may think. Sure what he did was low but in that moment he had to think of his group first especially given the fact thousands of walkers were flooding the city. My point being he did think of Clementine too.
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Unless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
I have my opinion and you have yours, i already said i was going to end this convo but seeing as you insist on bringing it back fine but i’d rather not go on day after day arguing when neither of us are ever going to see each other’s viewpoints. And by the way, I questioned you only because you seemed to enjoy seeing Brie die a painful death (or was that TripleKillionare? Apologies if i mixed you up) but that doesn’t set well with me no matter who it is, i just think it’s sick and disturbing to actually enjoy something like that, that’s all. No offence intended. You can hate who you want, i am not telling you that you can’t but i did want to give you my insight on why i don’t agree with the hate.
Well I guess I could double that analysis back to you. I really hope you aren't the type of person in real life to steal a boat leaving a 8… more year old child to die in a zombie apoclypse because you were selfish with your resources and cared of noone other than yourself and your friends. I would hope that if you were presented with the option to help or be selfish in a situation of the such you'd be an actual human being and not some "Me first" piece of shit. I mean Vernons group were pieces of filth. Lee and Kenny found the boat. Lee and Kenny had the plan. They are the sole reason like 70 percent of Season 1s cast died. Now i'm not saying the boat plan would have worked. I'm sure all them scum bags died a salty death being raped by pirates but if it did work. Vernon and his gain hindered the success and happiness of Kenny, Ben, Christa, Omid and so many others. And most especially put Clementine, a girl they pretended to care about… [view original content]
@TheFlyOnTheWall Vernon’s group weren’t bad, even when they stole the boat which although was really backstabbing, at the end of the day, an… moreyone would have done the same when desperate enough. Even Christa said the same thing about them.
Yeah, see, THIS is close to the crux of my problem.
One of the things I loved and respect about Season 1 is that it generally encouraged or at least left a bit of room to look a survivor's negative actions and consider/understand their point of view, why they decided to do it, and/or what led them to that point.
In Vernon's case, it can be consolidated of how oppressed & thus desperate his group was, learning said oppressors destroyed themselves from the inside(courtesy of a woman with a "choice" in the matter suddenly snapping and going on a killing spree), the unusually numb pain that came with losing someone who was like a daughter to him(thanks in part to the boat man and another member of… [view original content]
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Unless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there. That someone could very much have wandered and died too. They could have been kidnapped, lost, eaten, a walker or killed by bandits who did wander them woods. It'd be completely stupid not to take the goods and the stranger is a tard for assuming otherwise or trying to assume this moral high ground with Lee. that always annoyed me with the stranger. It does drive him as an antagonist though. The stuff was left there. Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone and armed robbing them like some hoodlums. Had the stranger been there. Lee and Kenny wouldn't have jumped him like neantherdals and stole his stuff. Their is civil discourse. We act like 21st century evolved humans. Kenny and Lee would have asked him to join the group, tried making a deal for some goods or moved on. Not like some "Me first" caveman style.
Well no one in the game discussed that island and nor was it made obvious without thoroughly studying your surroundings. That’s invalid to me
You just throw stuff out the window when it's convenient. Their was a damn island lol. It doesn't matter if a character sat there and was like "Hey theirs an island right there" it was there. TripleKillionaire made a good observation. It's where they would have went if going out in the open water as it was visible and obvious. Might have had Michonne there killing people with machettes but still woulda been a good shot.
i just think it’s sick and disturbing to actually enjoy something like that, that’s all. No offence intended.
A Video Game = Real Life now? Come on man. Please don't blur the line between TWD universe and what I do in a game and my actual emotions in real life like you are attempting to. It's bordering on disrespectful. Just putting it out there. All the people who enjoyed gabe dying or anyone dying in this game isn't some twisted anti christ. It's a video game. Nothing much more to say then it's a video game. Let's rewind a tad here Dr. Phil. Our decisions in the game don't reflect us as real people. I just want to preface that because I might have done something similar in response to your initial comment.
My thing is Vernon really cared about Clem he would have helped Lee rescue her. Those who cared did. Those who didn't split. They cared about nothing but themselves. It's easy for Vernon to say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
You can't preface "I'm trying to end this debate" by putting 3 paragraphs of stuff that I have to respond to. Much of it going past the boundary of video game talk and stepping into the realm of "oh this is you as a person in real life, and I think you are morally wrong" talk.
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Un… moreless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there. That someone could very much have wandered and died too. They could have been kidnapped, lost, eaten, a walker or killed by bandits who did wander them woods. It'd be completely stupid not to take the goods and the stranger is a tard for assuming otherwise or trying to assume this moral high ground with Lee. that always annoyed me with the stranger. It does drive him as an antagonist though. The stuff was left there. Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone an… [view original content]
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there.
Dude it’s a different scenario but ultimately the same principle. Stealing something that they know isn’t their’s. My point being that Lee/Kenny stole the stuff for their group and Vernon stole the boat for his group. Same difference.
Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone and armed robbing them like some hoodlums.
As i said before, it is different and yes Vernon’s situation is worse but the outcome is still the same. Vernon left Lee’s group with nothing and Lee/Kenny left the Stranger with nothing regardless if they didn’t know he was alive, they still broke up the Stranger’s family and set him on the way to becoming the vengeful guy he became. My point being that you do what’s best for your group in a desperate situation, Vernon wanted to get his people to safety and Lee/Kenny to keep their group fed and watered.
You just throw stuff out the window when it's convenient. Their was a damn island lol. It doesn't matter if a character sat there and was like "Hey theirs an island right there" it was there. TripleKillionaire made a good observation. It's where they would have went if going out in the open water as it was visible and obvious. Might have had Michonne there killing people with machettes but still woulda been a good shot.
I’m not throwing anything out for convenience, i am saying it like it is. The game did not clearly make it obvious about the map and island unless you thoroughly studied every single thing, if it was an important part of the plot they would have highlighted it better, have Lee mention it as a potential idea or something and sure maybe they would have gone there but again it was never suggested. Heck they didn’t have the boat at that point anyway. I myself would have liked them to have talked about where they would sail to on the boat but sadly that never happened.
A Video Game = Real Life now? Come on man. Please don't blur the line between TWD universe and what I do in a game and my actual emotions in real life like you are attempting to. It's bordering on disrespectful. Just putting it out there. All the people who enjoyed gabe dying or anyone dying in this game isn't some twisted anti christ. It's a video game. Nothing much more to say then it's a video game. Let's rewind a tad here Dr. Phil. Our decisions in the game don't reflect us as real people. I just want to preface that because I might have done something similar in response to your initial comment.
I am not saying you in particular are like that but making a point that the way someone (again not you in this case) comes across when they say stuff like “i hope he or she dies a slow painful death, oh i’m glad Ben/Brie got eaten alive, I enjoyed it”, “oh AJ is a stupid little shit, i hope he gets beaten up like Arvo”, basically stuff like that makes the person sound like such a sickening, evil human being and for all i know it could reflect how they are in real life if they met someone similar to the characters we see in games. It just doesn’t give a good impression at all when people say such things i mean why would anyone ever say something like that about a character in a game? Why so much hate? There are moments in games that you could relate to in real life. Some games are not far from reality you know, i wasn’t just referring to TWD universe. Sorry man if i offend you or anyone but it doesn’t set right with me when i see anyone saying disturbing stuff like that. It just makes it sound like they were dragged up from birth. Sorry.
My thing is Vernon really cared about Clem he would have helped Lee rescue her. Those who cared did. Those who didn't split. They cared about nothing but themselves. It's easy for Vernon to say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
Vernon didn’t even know Clem was missing unless you had someone stay behind with the boat. I already said he got pissed when he found out Lee had lost her and at that point he just went ahead with stealing the boat anyway given there was little time with the herd on the way and Lee already out looking for her. I also don’t think the group or who you left to watch the boat would let him help look for her if he suddenly changed his mind anyway lol.
Look let me make this clear ok? What Vernon did was low and despicable, i have never said it wasn’t nor condoned what he did. I have merely given you a viewpoint from Vernon’s perspective which was that he needed to put his group first and in a desperate situation i think anyone would have done the same for their group. There wasn’t enough room on the boat for everyone and no guarantee of enough fuel to make 2 or more trips for Vernon’s crew and he knew this. There was also no guarantee they would come back for them anyway, especially knowing that time was running out with the gigantic herd entering the city as well. That is why Vernon did what he did. I didn’t like it but i understand why he did.
You can't preface "I'm trying to end this debate" by putting 3 paragraphs of stuff that I have to respond to. Much of it going past the boundary of video game talk and stepping into the realm of "oh this is you as a person in real life, and I think you are morally wrong" talk. But to each their own.
Well i said i wanted to end it because these back and forth debates end up lasting days sometimes weeks and the truth is, i work full time and i really don’t want all my free time spent on typing essays about this online. I am sure you don’t either. We both have different views on Brie/Vernon, it is what it is and i respect what you’re saying believe it or not but don’t 100% agree with some of the hate that’s all. At least when it comes to Kenny we’re on the same page though lol
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Un… moreless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there. That someone could very much have wandered and died too. They could have been kidnapped, lost, eaten, a walker or killed by bandits who did wander them woods. It'd be completely stupid not to take the goods and the stranger is a tard for assuming otherwise or trying to assume this moral high ground with Lee. that always annoyed me with the stranger. It does drive him as an antagonist though. The stuff was left there. Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone an… [view original content]
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing.
Well, that's not entirely true. In one of the options where the Stranger asks why Lee didn't take his stuff, Lee can mention that the domelight in the car was still on. Or in simpler terms, it means whoever owned the car had left it no longer than 5 minutes prior to us coming across it.
It's not like they left that car unattended for hours, just sitting out in the middle of nowhere. The stranger and his family had to have left that car mere minutes before Lee and co found it. If it's that recently abandoned, it'd mean whoever left it wasn't intending to be gone long, and that they're nearby.
Besides, you'd think that Lee and the group would be a bit more cautious about the random car filled with supplies just sitting out in the open in the middle of the night, given that they had just survived a family that were secretly cannibals, and learned of a group of murderous bandits living in the surrounding woods.
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Un… moreless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there. That someone could very much have wandered and died too. They could have been kidnapped, lost, eaten, a walker or killed by bandits who did wander them woods. It'd be completely stupid not to take the goods and the stranger is a tard for assuming otherwise or trying to assume this moral high ground with Lee. that always annoyed me with the stranger. It does drive him as an antagonist though. The stuff was left there. Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone an… [view original content]
Comments
The Stranger at the end of season 1.
No I wouldn’t leave a “9” year old to die in a zombie apocalypse. If i was physically able to save a kid of course i would especially if it was my daughter, i’d die for her but what you are saying implies that Vernon deliberately left her which he didn’t and let me explain.
Vernon offered to take Clementine with him when he spoke to Lee and i would bet he would have taken her with him when they stole the boat if she was there so you implying Vernon left Clementine behind deliberately is completely erroneous. He wasn’t monsterous, you could clearly see that he cared, he had raised a daughter before. He wrote a letter explaining his actions and how bad he felt about taking the boat and leaving Clem (because she wasn’t there at the time if the boat was left unguarded) or did you not get that version in your game? If Ben stayed behind to watch the boat he says that Vernon got pissed when he told him that Lee had lost Clem and she was missing.
So you see there are two sides to every coin and like it or not Vernon isn’t a piece of shit as you may think. Sure what he did was low but in that moment he had to think of his group first especially given the fact thousands of walkers were flooding the city. My point being he did think of Clementine too.
It’s no different the situation of Lee agreeing to steal from the Stranger’s station wagon. Lee and Kenny were putting their group first. Unless you feel they get a free pass on fucking the Stranger’s family over because it’s Lee and Kenny?
I have my opinion and you have yours, i already said i was going to end this convo but seeing as you insist on bringing it back fine but i’d rather not go on day after day arguing when neither of us are ever going to see each other’s viewpoints. And by the way, I questioned you only because you seemed to enjoy seeing Brie die a painful death (or was that TripleKillionare? Apologies if i mixed you up) but that doesn’t set well with me no matter who it is, i just think it’s sick and disturbing to actually enjoy something like that, that’s all. No offence intended. You can hate who you want, i am not telling you that you can’t but i did want to give you my insight on why i don’t agree with the hate.
Well no one in the game discussed that island and nor was it made obvious without thoroughly studying your surroundings. That’s invalid to me
Couldn’t agree more
About time you got banned. This brings a huge smile to my face.
Good riddance
Because the plot demands it tbh
The car was abandoned though. Kenny and Lee had no way of knowing. It belonged to noone from what they knew and even if it belonged to someone, that someone is pretty dumb for leaving it there. That someone could very much have wandered and died too. They could have been kidnapped, lost, eaten, a walker or killed by bandits who did wander them woods. It'd be completely stupid not to take the goods and the stranger is a tard for assuming otherwise or trying to assume this moral high ground with Lee. that always annoyed me with the stranger. It does drive him as an antagonist though. The stuff was left there. Taking something that was just left there is much different than jumping someone and armed robbing them like some hoodlums. Had the stranger been there. Lee and Kenny wouldn't have jumped him like neantherdals and stole his stuff. Their is civil discourse. We act like 21st century evolved humans. Kenny and Lee would have asked him to join the group, tried making a deal for some goods or moved on. Not like some "Me first" caveman style.
You just throw stuff out the window when it's convenient. Their was a damn island lol. It doesn't matter if a character sat there and was like "Hey theirs an island right there" it was there. TripleKillionaire made a good observation. It's where they would have went if going out in the open water as it was visible and obvious. Might have had Michonne there killing people with machettes but still woulda been a good shot.
A Video Game = Real Life now? Come on man. Please don't blur the line between TWD universe and what I do in a game and my actual emotions in real life like you are attempting to. It's bordering on disrespectful. Just putting it out there. All the people who enjoyed gabe dying or anyone dying in this game isn't some twisted anti christ. It's a video game. Nothing much more to say then it's a video game. Let's rewind a tad here Dr. Phil. Our decisions in the game don't reflect us as real people. I just want to preface that because I might have done something similar in response to your initial comment.
My thing is Vernon really cared about Clem he would have helped Lee rescue her. Those who cared did. Those who didn't split. They cared about nothing but themselves. It's easy for Vernon to say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
You can't preface "I'm trying to end this debate" by putting 3 paragraphs of stuff that I have to respond to. Much of it going past the boundary of video game talk and stepping into the realm of "oh this is you as a person in real life, and I think you are morally wrong" talk.
But to each their own.
I’ll reply to this when i finish work or get time! Cheers
Dude it’s a different scenario but ultimately the same principle. Stealing something that they know isn’t their’s. My point being that Lee/Kenny stole the stuff for their group and Vernon stole the boat for his group. Same difference.
As i said before, it is different and yes Vernon’s situation is worse but the outcome is still the same. Vernon left Lee’s group with nothing and Lee/Kenny left the Stranger with nothing regardless if they didn’t know he was alive, they still broke up the Stranger’s family and set him on the way to becoming the vengeful guy he became. My point being that you do what’s best for your group in a desperate situation, Vernon wanted to get his people to safety and Lee/Kenny to keep their group fed and watered.
I’m not throwing anything out for convenience, i am saying it like it is. The game did not clearly make it obvious about the map and island unless you thoroughly studied every single thing, if it was an important part of the plot they would have highlighted it better, have Lee mention it as a potential idea or something and sure maybe they would have gone there but again it was never suggested. Heck they didn’t have the boat at that point anyway. I myself would have liked them to have talked about where they would sail to on the boat but sadly that never happened.
I am not saying you in particular are like that but making a point that the way someone (again not you in this case) comes across when they say stuff like “i hope he or she dies a slow painful death, oh i’m glad Ben/Brie got eaten alive, I enjoyed it”, “oh AJ is a stupid little shit, i hope he gets beaten up like Arvo”, basically stuff like that makes the person sound like such a sickening, evil human being and for all i know it could reflect how they are in real life if they met someone similar to the characters we see in games. It just doesn’t give a good impression at all when people say such things i mean why would anyone ever say something like that about a character in a game? Why so much hate? There are moments in games that you could relate to in real life. Some games are not far from reality you know, i wasn’t just referring to TWD universe. Sorry man if i offend you or anyone but it doesn’t set right with me when i see anyone saying disturbing stuff like that. It just makes it sound like they were dragged up from birth. Sorry.
Vernon didn’t even know Clem was missing unless you had someone stay behind with the boat. I already said he got pissed when he found out Lee had lost her and at that point he just went ahead with stealing the boat anyway given there was little time with the herd on the way and Lee already out looking for her. I also don’t think the group or who you left to watch the boat would let him help look for her if he suddenly changed his mind anyway lol.
Look let me make this clear ok? What Vernon did was low and despicable, i have never said it wasn’t nor condoned what he did. I have merely given you a viewpoint from Vernon’s perspective which was that he needed to put his group first and in a desperate situation i think anyone would have done the same for their group. There wasn’t enough room on the boat for everyone and no guarantee of enough fuel to make 2 or more trips for Vernon’s crew and he knew this. There was also no guarantee they would come back for them anyway, especially knowing that time was running out with the gigantic herd entering the city as well. That is why Vernon did what he did. I didn’t like it but i understand why he did.
Well i said i wanted to end it because these back and forth debates end up lasting days sometimes weeks and the truth is, i work full time and i really don’t want all my free time spent on typing essays about this online. I am sure you don’t either. We both have different views on Brie/Vernon, it is what it is and i respect what you’re saying believe it or not but don’t 100% agree with some of the hate that’s all. At least when it comes to Kenny we’re on the same page though lol
The only people I'd resurrect and kill again is Arvo and Bonnie.
They dont deserve quick deaths.
Max
Well, that's not entirely true. In one of the options where the Stranger asks why Lee didn't take his stuff, Lee can mention that the domelight in the car was still on. Or in simpler terms, it means whoever owned the car had left it no longer than 5 minutes prior to us coming across it.
It's not like they left that car unattended for hours, just sitting out in the middle of nowhere. The stranger and his family had to have left that car mere minutes before Lee and co found it. If it's that recently abandoned, it'd mean whoever left it wasn't intending to be gone long, and that they're nearby.
Besides, you'd think that Lee and the group would be a bit more cautious about the random car filled with supplies just sitting out in the open in the middle of the night, given that they had just survived a family that were secretly cannibals, and learned of a group of murderous bandits living in the surrounding woods.