What a pointless return for Lilly
I killed Lilly at the end of episode 3 but I thought she would have at least taken James role in episode 4 if you chose not to kill her but she doesn't even do that. I just read all the determinant endings for her and she basically just leaves on a boat at the beginning of episode 4.
They brought back the character strictly to be in what amounted to about three or four scenes and it really didn't even make since for her to be back in the story anyways. She was totally forced back into the story.
I know people like closure but if there is no place in the story for the character it's best just to end their story without closure. It would have made a lot more since for Lillly's role in season 4 to be filled by an entirely new character.
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She was brought back with no legitimate reason or intent other than she's a returning character dating back to S1.
As much as I disliked how Kenny was handled during S2 it had a long-term reason for him to return other than just being there. Kenny became an integral part of the story opposed to Lily who was simply there occasionally.
You could have interchanged Lily with any generic villain and nothing would be different then a few dialogue options.
You're just a hater,look at how epic her conclusion was in EP4
Best telltale villain ever.
Yeah even though Kenny's return in season 2 was pretty coincidental they at least gave a good explanation for why he was back in the story and he played an important role once he did return. If Kenny in season 2 was handled like Lilly in season 4 was we would have just run into him at the ski lodge and he would have been one of the ones killed off when the shootings happened.
Lol, do you know where that music was taken from? Sounds like music from one of the Elder Scrolls games.
"he's a pirate" it's from Pirates of the Caribbean bruh
Better than the final product. ?
Oh, there was a point. There might've even been two.
But none of them were any good.
This definitely should've just been an original villain without the baggage/complications, not that they do much with it anyway.
Yeah in the end Lilly was just another marketing ploy. Just like Glenn and Herschel were in season 1 (Lilly was originally intended to be a marketing ploy for season 1 as well as she was originally intended to be Lilly Caul.)
Kenny was for season 2 and Clem was for season 3. Even when this series had good writing they were still heavily into the marketing ploys.
At least Glenn and Hershel were actually used interestingly and meaningfully there, in addition to Lily Caul likely being a much more tragic character had that deal not been rendered moot.
Everything after that, with the possible exception of the Michonne Miniseries, was just facile.
Yeah the only thing that made me scratch my head about the Herschel appearance was that Herschel in the comic had seven kids and the only kid that was in the game was Shawn. But I guess we could just say that since that scene in the game was meant to take place in the opening days of the apocalypse most of his kids hadn't managed to get home yet.
I actually liked Road to Woodbury and I think it gave Lilly Caul a better backstory than if her character was still canon to the game. The novel series grew terrible later on down the line but Rise of the Governor and Road to Woodbury were pretty good (as I think Kirkman was giving Jay an outline to use for the backstory of those characters).
Oh-ho, really?
Man, he was busy and productive.
welp now we know how Kenny would have likely been handled if he was Carver in season 2.
Rodrik! Wuzzuuup!
supppp
!
Wucha been up to man?
nothing much, couldnt log in for a long time... then i randomly decided to try to log in with firefox and it worked.
Yeah, I remember someone else mentioning that as a workaround recently.
Have you played or at least watched much of TFS?
Everyone is so hateful on this poor Marcon Woman.
played thought every episode, was happy with episodes 1 2 and 3, fairly neutral on 4. was a bit annoyed about how Lily was portrayed in 3 since they completely ditched the whole thing about her hesitating against Clem, also thought a few characters like Aasim and minerva should have been more focused on.
More or less, give or take.
Marcon?
Sorry auto correct I mean Macon.
Lilly's return was honestly the most disappointing part of the story. Feels like such a big miss. At no part does it feel like she needed to be included, more so they did it just to go around saying a season 1 character returns.
They just handled her so poorly. Her being so evil that you cant even take is serious anymore, followed by her actions always conflicting with her goals. Also barely using the dynamic of we knew each other before was disappointing. Also how she had so little screen time, no explanation of really how she ended up where she was in any way at all for the player to even try and figure out through clues, then she just dies or fucks off on a boat, just really dumb and disappointing.
Allegedly, they had been debating who to bring back and then how for a fair bit. There's also those concept designs that show at least two or three different takes on how she could be reworked and represented.
Which makes what they did and/or how they did it all the more embarrassing.
Well, she did kill Mitch and kick off the rest of the season. Hell, if not for Lilly, Clem and AJ would have never gone back to the school. Plus, Lilly's actions cause Vi/Lou/Tenn death
Did they though?
No Lilly - no school attack
No school attack - no boat/rescue mission, Mitch death.
No boat/rescue mission - no Minerva.
No Minerva - no bridge.
No bridge - no death.
Lilly fucked up a lot of shit for those kids.
Wow, this almost Season 2.5 levels of finger pointing. Almost.
Kinda wish I didn't get in the bed now.
Just trying to sum up Lilly's actions and consequences. Even counting S1, she's done a lot more bad than good.
Has she?
You yanking my chain, man
I can't think of a good thing she's done off the top of my head. Aside from her actions leading to the death of six kids, she killed Carely/Doug and was willing to leave Clem to die outside the drug store in S1.
Not really on the last thing. Recall that she wasn't against saving them--just reinforcing that they're supposed to keep the doors shut, lest they risk letting in walkers.
Besides, there was her trying to get Larry to calm down about Duck(among other things), giving Clementine her hair loopies, getting Larry to back off on Mr.Parker/Travis, turn down a chance to eat herself if offered, letting Ben stay and even training him to be a lookout, saving Lee from Danny & Andy, agreeing with Clementine on not stealing from the Campmans, figured out that someone was stealing medicine, giving Lee the benefit of doubt, and giving everyone an opening to escape by shooting Jake.
Tbh maybe swapping menirva to lilly in the bridge scene would've made lilly's return justice and would've made sense also, clem kills and sinks her ship, she's bitten and about to die, perfect villain worthy but instead of taking menirva place she just says bye and fuck off the game...NANI.
She didn't want Carely/Glenn to leave the drugstore - meaning she was fine with letting kids die. Plus, she wanted to throw Duck out of the drugstore after he got "bit."
No she didn't--at least half the first one anyway. Just because she's mad about the act itself doesn't mean she regrets the result. Otherwise, she'd be harder on them.
She tried to get Larry to calm down, pointing out that he's Kenny's son and just a kid.
Notice that for all her brusque orders and strict regulations, she ultimately yielded when it came to saving lives and never punished anyone for going against her orders.
Hmph...well look at that. Almost gives Lilith an inkling of a point. But not quite.
Lilly - "When I say that door stays shut no matter what, I fucking mean it."
"Dad, calm down. We'll get this kid out of here."
Lilly was willing to let Clem die. Proven by that first quote. And she was willing to throw out Duck. Proven by that second quote.
Technically and from a narrative perspective, bringing back old characters is always seen as an easy thing that can, when done right, give off a really good payoff. They had so much potential. But honestly, with how she was executed, I actually feel as though the team would've done a better job without Lily and a fresh new character. But I'm probably wrong about that, clearly they would've just made someone else take Lily's role and she is not a compelling enough villain to carry the story. Hence why a lot of the season is setting up.
...Did you just try to prove your stance with half of what I just said?
But on the real, when did she say that second one? Cause the one time she [can?] speak up(which I reference) in all the versions I've seen, Larry tells her to stay out of it and then she doesn't say anything else until the herd responding to Carley's gunshot causes him to have a heart attack.
Exactly.
Granted, bringing her back in the first place was always gonna be a double edged sword given what had been established as "the standard" long before this point. So I guess it was just proving the bad idea.
You said in a previous post that Lilly was being "good" in the drugstore. So I quoted Lilly in the drugstore - showing that she was acting like a bitch. Like Clem said to Vi, "She's horrible. Always has been."