Random ideas for Telltale's Batman S3

Considering this forum is still active, it's possible that the third season will be greenlit if/when Telltale is reborn. So, here's a few breadcrumbs I'm throwing their way.

BTW, these concepts aren't meant to be used in a single story. They're more like post-it notes hastily slapped on the wall of the writers' room.

1) Five years have passed since the events of THE ENEMY WITHIN. If Alfred stayed with Bruce, he appears in the first ten minutes of episode one. If he left, he doesn't show up until midway through.

2) Depending on the player's decisions in THE ENEMY WITHIN, Bruce is either mending his relationship with Selina Kyle, or engaging in serious discussion about marriage.

3) Pamela Isley & Kirk Langstrom are both scientists working at Wayne Enterprises in different branches.

4) In stark contrast to other depictions of the character, Pamela Isley is a fat, unattractive woman...but only at first.

5) The fully mutated version of Man-Bat is NOT the animalistic incarnation seen in most continuities, but more along the lines of the articulate and eloquent creature from Jamie Delano and John Bolton's MAN-BAT graphic novel.

6) The Joker has been moved from Arkham to a smaller psychiatric institution under the personal supervision of Hugo Strange. Bruce visits the Joker in his holding cell every month or so.

7) Rumors of Bruce Wayne being Batman (stepping up from older rumors of Wayne secretly funding Batman) have increased on various online forums and networking services.

8) Digging deeper into his father's past, Bruce Wayne unearths troubling connections between Thomas Wayne and a sinister cabal called the Court of Owls that has supposedly existed since Gotham's colonial era. The Court later offers Bruce Wayne the choice of either being inducted into their ranks (partly out of respect for Thomas, one of their most valued and trusted members), or have his entire fortune swiftly destroyed.

9) In the penultimate episode, the Court abducts Joker from his confinement. Depending if the player had Bruce agree to join the Court, they could be using Joker as a doomsday weapon to direct at Gotham, or a trump card against Bruce himself. Hugo Strange is killed in the process. Alternatively, Man-Bat or Poison Ivy breaks him out.

10) At the next-to-last episode's conclusion, the Joker forces Batman into a kill-or-be-killed predicament where several innocent lives hang in the balance (or maybe just Alfred's). If the Joker became Batman's enemy in THE ENEMY WITHIN, he's simply trying to drag Batman down to his level. If Joker and Bruce became friends, he says he's "being cruel to be kind," in order to turn Bruce into "everything he's supposed to be."

11) If Batman refuses, he finds another way to defeat Joker while saving whoever he's threatening from death. If he kills Joker, Joker's corpse breathes out a gas that rewires Batman's mind, transforming him into...that's right, The Batman Who Laughs.

https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle/books/2017/11/22/batman-who-laughs-comic-review

12) Bruce continues to be Batman in the last instalment, or as TBWL in a radically different playthrough where the player can no longer choose between good or evil, but only decide on the extent of TBWL's villainy, allowing for fleeting moments of humanity and reflection, or characterizing him as a flat-out monster. The Court of Owls or Poison Ivy/Man-Bat would be Batman's primary nemesis in the "White Knight" version of the final episode. In the TBWL version, it would be Commissioner Gordon and Harvey Bullock.

Comments

  • edited December 2019

    There's been so many branching alternatives from S2, some of them have to result in "Game Over" early in S3. OR with tragic consequences. Here are some thoughts.

    THE PACT
    Being enemies with genius villain Joker can result in one of Batman's close allies being blown up, like what happened to Jason Todd in the comics. With vigilante Joker, I can see him being able to break out of Arkham and break out Harley from Waller's grasp - I think he's still not over her. I'll give it max 1 month for the asylum to keep him imprisoned.

    For top-class escape artist Selina, if she's left in Waller's task force, I could see her breaking off her collar and escaping in no time. Or if Batman had managed to free her (if the Player is amongst those few who managed to figure this out, because I have no idea how), she would have escaped before they came to free her. I get the feeling Telltale made freeing her really hard to do, as they want her to escape by herself. She might clash with Bruce again, even if they are on the best of terms, if she opts to break out Harley. And I would like further exploration of Harley's backstory and see her trying to cure herself with Selina's help. Hey, they became besties in the comics after all.

    THE LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS
    I see Bruce's ex-girlfriend Talia Al Ghul coming back into his life, maybe with Damian, a child he never knew had. Iman Avesta is likely Iman Al Ghul (with Avesta as her mother's name or stepfather's name) and sister of Talia. She and her mother ran away from Ra's Al Ghul, and her mother remarried an ordinary Gotham native in an effort to lead an ordinary life. But soon, she will be the conduit for the League of Assassins to re-enter Bruce's life. I have the feeling she was marking Bruce, not so much as a romantic interest, but because he's the father of her nephew. I mean Telltale made her age 40, 10 years older than Bruce, so I'm not sure how they were trying to spin her as a romantic option. I think it was a red herring to bring in Bruce's ex-girlfriend, Talia, and his son, Damian. And I'm really keen to see a story on that.

    And of course, every good Batman trilogy should end with the biggest threat of all - all-out military war in the mother-city, Gotham. The League is well suited as the antagonist.

    THE PACT VS THE LEAGUE
    The League of Assassins will defeat Batman, throw him in an awful prison and conquer Gotham. Alfred will reach out to Selina - it's inevitable, because even if you choose to be enemies with Selina, you can't deny that Alfred likes Selina A LOT and they have a bond. Depending on your relationship with Tiffany, she will also come in to help on the tech-side. Selina will provide the stealth on the field while Tiffany provides the tech to help break out Bruce from prison and smuggle him out of Gotham. John/Joker will possibly come in to help. The Agency and Suicide Squad/ex-Pact will combine forces with Batman to defeat the League of Assassins once and for all. And in the end, the ex-Pact members will be released as reward for their help.

  • If you could choose, which of the other two major DC superheroes would you like to see get his/her own Telltale series in the event Batman S3 never happens? Superman or Wonder Woman?

    Ironlady posted: »

    There's been so many branching alternatives from S2, some of them have to result in "Game Over" early in S3. OR with tragic consequences. He

  • edited November 2019

    I would choose Wonder Woman for personal preference. For Superman, there's a reason why the recent movies have not seen much success - he is too flawless morally and it's very hard to get creative about it. Not to mention that his love interest (Lois Lane) tends to get into 'damsel in distress' situations a lot. They had a gifted actress like Amy Adams as Lois Lane with lots of screentime, and yet she had very little leeway to make the character more engaging than what has been done before. I won't be optimistic for a character-driven Superman game.

    For Wonder Woman, somehow I can see more creativity with a demigod vs understanding mortal moralities story dynamic.

    If you could choose, which of the other two major DC superheroes would you like to see get his/her own Telltale series in the event Batman S3 never happens? Superman or Wonder Woman?

  • edited November 2019

    For Superman, there's a reason why the recent movies have not seen much success - he is too flawless morally and it's very hard to get creative about it.

    That's a common perception of Superman's character, and IMO it's silly. If anything, Superman continues to endure through the ages exactly because he's a "boy scout." More than any of the other superheroes in DC's entire roster, Superman has the responsibility of upholding a moral code that most would regard as naïve and antiquated. It subjects him to ridicule and abuse that brooders like Batman never have to concern themselves with. I don't even want to imagine how many villains have tried to get a rise out of him over the years just because he doesn't drop an f-bomb every thirty seconds.

    Heck, one of the best stories to ever come out of the DC universe, KINDOM COME, was all about the world going to hell in a handbasket simply because people decided on a more bloodthirsty superhero (i.e. Magog) to represent the superhuman community over Superman. Here's a direct quote from Magog himself:

    "The world changed...but you wouldn't. So they chose me. They chose the man who would kill over the man who wouldn't...and now they're dead."

    And then, of course, there's WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY?, which was almost written as a rebuttal to all of Superman's critics. Superman is routinely mocked by the story's "heroes" as much as he's mocked in real life by the same fans who idolize Batman only because he's supposedly darker.

    That's not to say Batman is a terrible character. There's more than one reason why he's endured as long as Superman over the decades, although sometimes I feel most of them have more to do with his rogues gallery than Batman himself. For crying out loud, Batman is a handsome billionaire who basically hopes into his expensive car every night to beat up people who, by and large, were driven to crime by poverty and destitution. In stark contrast, Superman always endeavors to be kind and compassionate, works at a blue-collar job, and his worst foe, Lex Luthor, is one of the richest men on the entire planet. We live in a time where the 1% are practically getting away with murder, setting fire to Earth in the process. So why is Batman more popular than Superman right now? The only reason I can think of is that most people just want to be him. They'd rather be the rich guy with all the fancy gadgets than the "boy scout" who always does his best to do the right thing even when it won't earn him a penny. And to me, that's troubling.

    It's why Zack Snyder's "interpretation" of Superman ultimately failed. The most recent movies didn't meet with success because Supes is a boring character; they flatlined because Snyder shared the same dismissive view of Manchester Black, one of the antiheroes from TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY. He turned Supes into a thug indifferent to the obscene amount of collateral damage left in his wake that could have easily numbered in the thousands, possibly the millions. To top it off, Snyder had Supes snap General Zod's neck. All of his apologists have defended his decision to their dying breath, claiming that Supes had no choice, although I've come across at least a dozen believable alternatives online which could have incapacitated or incarcerated Zod as opposed to killing him outright. Worse still, Snyder didn't even take the consequences of Superman's decision that seriously, going into the next chapter (BATMAN V. SUPERMAN) with the attitude of a black metal fanboy who thought he had finally made one of DC's lamest superheroes "edgy."

    Modern writers seem to be very insecure about writing for "paragons of virtue" like Superman, and in my eyes, that's stupid. Superman should be the most fascinating character of all exactly BECAUSE he endeavors to be a "paragon of virtue" even while everyone around him constantly succumbs to the dark side. That's not to say a player couldn't theoretically MAKE Superman into a darker character in a future Telltale game, if they wanted to. Having the ability to choose between one option or the other should define Telltale games, even if the developers sometimes fail to follow up on those choices. But the conflict of having so much power at one's disposal, and always struggling to do the right thing with it despite the steadily mounting temptation to go off the rails, could provide a terrific driving narrative force behind such a game.

    Ironlady posted: »

    I would choose Wonder Woman for personal preference. For Superman, there's a reason why the recent movies have not seen much success - he is

  • edited November 2019

    To be very honest, my exposure to Superman has been through the movies and the Smallville TV series. True, there might be scope to delve into the character with regards to his feelings of responsibility (at having so much power), alienation (being different, being an alien), isolation (being the only Kryptonite in the universe), survivor's guilt. I just don't know enough about the Superman universe.

    I do think the Batman universe tends to be more well known because of the Nolan movies and The Animated Series in the 1990s which I grew up with. Also, Batman is very flawed, not invincible and often has to rely more on his tech than brawn. The flawed aspect and theme of giving in to one's darker impulses makes the choice-driven game easy to expand upon. The mortality aspect of Bruce Wayne makes it easier to identify with, as without his suit and tech, it's difficult for him to win in a fight against a super-villain.

    For Superman, there's a reason why the recent movies have not seen much success - he is too flawless morally and it's very hard to get creat

  • edited November 2019

    By the way, I love the idea of The Batman Who Laughs . Now it will be his allies' turn to work together to bring him back from the edge.

  • Also, Batman is very flawed, not invincible and often has to rely more on his tech than brawn.

    That's technically true, but if you were to pick up a Batman comic these days, you would find that the character has become invincible in almost every other department. Seriously, the guy has a dozen contingency plans in case he spills a cup of coffee. If you were referring to the Batman of comic books from the '70's or '80's, I might have agreed, but the 21st century Batman is more flawless than Michael Jackson's "Thriller."

    I think the character's popularity has actually started to detract from his appeal as someone a reader/player can relate to, in that his writers are constantly overpowering him into an unbeatable badass. He's the center of the DC universe in every way, and that's not a good thing.

    One of the biggest problems with Bruce Wayne as a "superhero" is that he wouldn't have become Batman at all (at least the Batman we're familiar with) if not for his immense wealth. That's one aspect of Telltale's interpretation of the character that I really loved: It forced Bruce to grimly realize that every penny he inherited from his parents is blood money. Telltale's Batman is less about avenging his parents, and more about rectifying the sins of the father. IMO, it's the first Batman storyline with a genuinely resonant "post-recession" theme. There might have been other plots in the comics that dealt with the same concept, but not with this much depth.

    Ironlady posted: »

    To be very honest, my exposure to Superman has been through the movies and the Smallville TV series. True, there might be scope to delve int

  • Yes, I appreciate the theme of Bruce choosing to be Batman to redeem the sins of the father. Notice the theme of redemption resonates throughout Season 2. The Batman mission is not only about redeeming his father's sins, but also redeeming the criminals, seeing the good in them and turning them into heroes. The redemption theme resonates strongest in Catwoman. The theme of seeing good in even the worst villain resonates in John/Joker. The potential for redemption is planted with Harley and Freeze's characters, possibly Bane.

    Actually now Thomas Wayne is being villainised big time in the movie and comics world - in the hugely successful Joker movie and in the Rebirth comics. It's a sign that the redemption theme of the Batman mission will continue in future iterations of the story.

    Also, Batman is very flawed, not invincible and often has to rely more on his tech than brawn. That's technically true, but if you w

  • I am still of the opinion that Season 3 should retain the themes of identity of both previous seasons by having the opening episode be virtually different based on your decision to give up Alfred or Batman, and see the rest of the season be about accepting that he needs both parts of himself to function and defeat his enemies.

    I would have Ras as the main villain, and probably bring back all the surviving villains from the first two seasons if possible. I would also let players choose between Selina, Avesta (either secretly Talia or Nyssa) or a new character (probably either Zatanna or Dinah). New villains would be Scarecrow and Poison Ivy, who would be step-sibings and be the main threats of the opening episode - you either fight Scarecrow as a Bruceless Batman or Poison Ivy as a Batmanless Bruce, but both ultimately come into play alongside Ras. Tiffany's full transformation into a fellow heroine, rival vigilante or Agency operative would be completed. Joker's role would vary based on your treatment of him in Season 2, and his relationship with Harley. Selina, Harvey and Freeze could be more or less villainous based on your treatment of them. I would probably like to see another completely different final episode as with Season 2 as well.

  • I would like Harley Quinn as a romance option with vigilante path.

  • edited December 2019

    I love Harley too in the comics, in the animated movies and in the DCEU and I'm really looking forward to Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of one Harley Quinn.

    But I've to be really objective - I've studied film narrative before. It won't make much narrative sense for Harley to be a serious romance option in Telltale Season 3 for many reasons which would take too long a post to elaborate on. But I will make do with hot flirting. ;)

    And hey, what's people's obsession with romance option 1, 2, 3 etc in this game? It's too clumsy narrative-wise to have a choice 1 or 2 between two completely different women personality-wise and skills-wise as Bruce's girlfriend. At the end of the day, Telltale is not just a game - it is a narrative that needs to flow like a movie.

    Therefore, for a much better narrative flow, I'd suggest to have Selina leave Gotham again, whether or not you freed her or have her break out of Agency control by herself. She's the only female character in Telltale who has her own comics, so there's plenty for her to do outside of Batman. Have Selina and Harley reconcile, have Harley escape from the Agency, form an alliance with Poison Ivy like Gotham City Sirens in the comics, but with another name (since Selina's left Gotham), and let them have their own independent adventures. Selina needs to have her flings with Eiko and Nightwing, and Harley should have her flings with Poison Ivy and Nightwing too! Change up audience expectations and have a Nightwing-Selina-Harley love triangle instead. People keep thinking of Bruce as the most sought-after guy in Batman's world when Nightwing is actually even hotter!

    Meanwhile, in Gotham, even if you chose Alfred, he will leave because Bruce will break his promise to give up Batman. Bruce starts seeing Avesta out of a combination of heartbreak (over departure of Selina & Alfred) and gratitude. Avesta will eventually bring in Ra's Al Ghul, Talia (her sister?) and the League of Shadows. I don't see Avesta as Talia, since the director already said she's not Talia and she doesn't have that seductress look and feel that Talia has. I suggest having Talia seduce Bruce - the comics panels showing Bruce & Talia having their tryst are so hot, why not re-enact them? But this time, don't give players a choice, since Bruce didn't have a choice not to bed Talia in the comics, haha! Then we have Avesta catching them in bed which will turn Avesta against him - I'd like to see that, lol! C'mon, baby Damian needs to be made somehow, and Talia's his undisputed Babymama.

    As for Tiffany, either she is the new Batgirl, or works for the Agency if you had turned her in or didn't tell her your identity. Either way, when the League of Shadows threat arise, the Agency will be drawn to Gotham again.

    And like every good Batman trilogy, the final Season should culminate in the Fall of Gotham, defeat of Batman and exile of Bruce from Gotham. We can have Ra's Al Ghul taking control of Wayne Enterprises and Gotham. And there are plenty of story possibilities for Bruce going into hiding, his eventual recovery and comeback. Take a leaf from the "City of Bane" storyline in the Rebirth comics. ;)

    I would like Harley Quinn as a romance option with vigilante path.

  • I think players are over-obsessed with romance options. Such options make the narrative too clumsy IMO. Just have Selina leave Gotham and let her do her own thing for awhile. Bruce will start seeing Avesta and eventually, Talia. Avesta definitely isn't Talia - she doesn't have the fighting skills to evade capture by Riddler. But I do think she's related to Ra's Al Ghul and Talia. The clues from the Persian name and the Farsi-speaking are too Al Ghul-like to ignore.

    I am still of the opinion that Season 3 should retain the themes of identity of both previous seasons by having the opening episode be virtu

  • I agree with you. It would be possible that Avesta is probably a cousin to the Al Ghul family. Since like you said about the similarities being there between them. Also romance options help keep the stories different between players and can cause drama between two characters and your playable character. I always find it welcomed if done correctly.

    I think players are over-obsessed with romance options. Such options make the narrative too clumsy IMO. Just have Selina leave Gotham and le

  • edited December 2019

    Options means branching stories which can get clumsy if they start from the beginning. Branching stories work as a finale, like with two different Jokers in S2. From what I read, what a few very vocal players are wanting is for another romance, not so much an "option", hence their complaint about Selina being "forced" on them. So IMO best to have Selina leave town for awhile and force Avesta on everyone this time. :smiley:

    I do see Avesta as the estranged daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, the past whom she's running from, and Talia as her sister. Plus I'm keen to see Avesta-Talia-Bruce love triangle for some nasty Al Ghul family drama. Sibling rivalry for their father and for Bruce - all the ingredients for an intriguing family drama taken up a notch. :wink:

    I agree with you. It would be possible that Avesta is probably a cousin to the Al Ghul family. Since like you said about the similarities be

  • Hahaha. You talking about Nightwing,Selina,Harley love triangle makes me feel like the good old days before Telltale went down. Oh I also don't see Avesta as Talia. Girl is to formal and sophisticated to be a deadly assassin and foxy seducer.

    But I must conquer! About my wanted romance with Harley will not fit the narrative. I'm way to hopeless of a romantic to feel the way I do :D and I do feel a small ember of something genuine between Bruce and Harley. When it comes down to it for me, Batman is a good man through heart and soul. What he does with his pain, to fill the void of his trauma that eats him slowly is nothing but empowering, because of his selfishness yet empathy towards evil. That's where the moral dilemma of batman stories comes in. The good within him is virtous because of the darkness he bears, that's why my batman yearns for redemption of evil rather then the destruction of it. Not that redemption is allways the answer.

    That's why I find the dynamic between Telltale's Harley and Bruce so unanticipated,bothering and compelling. At first I viewed her as a dangerous villain that needs to be put behind bars for the rest of her life, classic harley so to say. Hell as the time went on she was increasingly becoming a bigger threat as she is quite competent. But as more things unravel or revealed itself, I started to understand and then truly pity her the same way I do for Bruce, HELL, the resemblance is undeniable. To think she loved her father so much that even at a young age, she became obsessed with psychological issues, due to his struggles with mental health. Then even with her support, he killed himself. But as that is not enough, the sickness her father had was also hereditary. That trauma echo's Bruce's own to some degree but one mayor diffrence is that Bruce had Alfred and Harley had a hereditary mental illness.

    I want to save her. What comes after that is up to her but damm.... I put her in Wallers hands. I feel like shit for doing that.

    I love Harley too in the comics, in the animated movies and in the DCEU and I'm really looking forward to Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous

  • edited January 2

    I know right? Poor Harley's outcome is shitty no matter what you do! But as I said, ultimately it is a film narrative and we can't always control the narrative to become exactly what we want. It is clear that the developers were shaping Avesta as the next love interest rather than Harley, which is a shame. As for Selina, she will probably leave Gotham for awhile, even if she's on the best terms with Bruce, as she has her own story outside of Batman's world, and that's what I want to see. In the comics, she's not always with Bruce, which keeps things interesting. I love the latest Catwoman-Zatanna team-up happening in the DC main comics now.

    I'm neutral about Avesta, but she's a generic Mary Sue civilian love interest like Rachel Dawes (Batman Begins, Dark Knight), Chase Meridien (Batman Forever), Sasha Bordeaux, Silver St Cloud etc. All you need is to change the job title to suit the story and her name, but it really is exactly the same person. The twist I see happening is, if she's a daughter of Ra's Al Ghul and will bring her sister, Talia, into the story for some really interesting family drama.

    I accidentally left Selina as an Agency Asset in my Vigilante playthrough. But come to think of it - it could be a good idea, as she's the one person who can break herself and Harley out. Then we can have the equivalent of "Gotham City Sirens" in Season 3. As for how we can reunite Bruce and Harley, I'm just thinking it doesn't have to be in Gotham. The Sirens will probably be based in another city (Paris?) but somehow will be compelled to come back to Gotham when Batman gets defeated and thrown out of Gotham by the League of Shadows, heheh!

    I love your analysis of how Harley's love for her dad and issue with mental illness mirrors Bruce's life story. I feel they have the potential to explore a far deeper relationship between Bruce and Harley, given the chance. It is so far hot flirting, but there is great scope for them to evolve from there. If you notice, he does show a lot of empathy for Harley and what happened with her father during the Bridge scene in Ep4, and was sincere in helping her find a cure. I wish there was a chance to follow up on this commitment. But instead, the game-story forces you to leave her as Agency Asset or Jailbird!! Arrrgh!!!! So I'm going to have to depend on Catwoman to break her out in Season 3...which hopefully will happen with Adhoc and a brand new team of writers. My hope is that the latest Harley comics and Birds of Prey movie will have an influence on making DLC on an all-girl team-up involving Harley and other female anti-heroes.

    In the canon DC Comics continuity, I am really really looking forward to the Batman X Harley Quinn team-up as promised by the new writer:
    https://screenrant.com/batman-harley-quinn-sidekick-partners-dc-comics/

    In another non-canonical comics story apart from the main continuity, there is "Batman: Curse of the White Knight" (under DC’s “adult themed” Black Label umbrella), Batman and Harley have a wonderful working partnership which is shaping up to be a romance.
    https://screenrant.com/batman-harley-quinn-romance-white-knight-comic/

    Hahaha. You talking about Nightwing,Selina,Harley love triangle makes me feel like the good old days before Telltale went down. Oh I also do

  • To borrow a quote from Batman to Wonder Woman in the Justice League animated series, "You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors, I'm a rich kid with issues. LOTS of issues."

  • Any one of these three options could work. But, I would want to bring in one of the best writers on the character in as a creative consultant, Paul Dini.

    Ironlady posted: »

    There's been so many branching alternatives from S2, some of them have to result in "Game Over" early in S3. OR with tragic consequences. He

  • I'd actually love to see KGBeast working for the main villain. I think he's a cool villain that doesn't get a lot of stories.

  • edited January 7

    That would be amazing! Paul Dini was the author of Heart of Hush which led directly to the creation and adventures of Gotham City Sirens. Dini also penned the storylines for the Arkham Asylum and Arkham City games.

    I'm forever grateful to him for creating the character of Harley Quinn in Batman: The Animated Series.
    https://ew.com/books/2017/09/05/paul-dini-25-years-of-harley-quinn/

    I would like to see Nightwing too. Looks to me that most people play Bruce as some kind of God's gift to women. It's about time everyone gets humbled by bringing in some major competition for the ladies.

    Nightwing's hook-up with Harley:

    Nightwing's hook-up with Catwoman:
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/11/15/dc-bait-readers-by-having-catwoman-cheat-on-batman-with-nightwing-in-february/

    JTKirk2233 posted: »

    Any one of these three options could work. But, I would want to bring in one of the best writers on the character in as a creative consultant, Paul Dini.

  • I think players are over-obsessed with romance options. Such options make the narrative too clumsy IMO. Just have Selina leave Gotham and let her do her own thing for awhile. Bruce will start seeing Avesta and eventually, Talia. Avesta definitely isn't Talia - she doesn't have the fighting skills to evade capture by Riddler

    Likely scenario with romance options is going to get difficult if Iman Avesta or Selina Kyle were a choice. Better to just have some kind option with the person you are getting close too. I like Selina Kyle,But,Idk why but,I have always liked Iman Avesta more. I know she can't be Talia Al Ghul. Maybe as you said maybe a friend or cousin to Talia. Either way Telltale will get back to it with S3 of Batman. Also I would choose Iman Avesta as a romance. Biggest plot for S3 will be the League Of Shadows along with the Agency and Poison Ivy and Mr.Freeze and Joker (depending on your choices from S2.)

    I think players are over-obsessed with romance options. Such options make the narrative too clumsy IMO. Just have Selina leave Gotham and le

  • edited January 13

    Where I got my story ideas was from a comment from the Steam Community:
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/675260/discussions/0/1848072002748542625/

    Kent Mudle was planning Poison Ivy, Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow to be S3 villains!
    Ra's Al Ghul = Avesta's estranged dad, the past she was running from
    Poison Ivy = eventual Gotham City Sirens team-up with Harley & Selina!
    Not sure how Scarecrow fits from the story points in S2 though...maybe an ex-Sanctus scientist? Working with Ra's.
    But oh well, the original Telltale team are not even part of Adhoc anymore, so who knows.

    I like Selina too, but her character growth is not complete yet in Telltale and she's not stable. She's still very young (say about 23, if you go with canon comics timeline where she's 8 years younger than Bruce) and has a lot more growing up to do. So even if the player had romanced her, she will leave. "On the Prowl" sounds pretty ambiguous TBH.

    Avesta is a lot more mature - I think she's suppose to be late 30s? She's already reached a level of character development that comes with her age and experience as second-in-command to Waller, which gives players a comforting assurance of reliability and stability. I can see the appeal in that, after the way Selina keeps leaving. Heheh!

    I am a bit unreasonable. I like Harley the best, though I know it's not possible for Bruce to like Harley in the Telltale universe. But no harm in a little fantasizing ;)

    But for the most logical narrative in this universe, I do see Bruce starting to date Avesta at the beginning of S3. But I think Talia will come between them and create huge family drama. ;)

    Hey, Bruce-Talia sex scene is canon after all...in the comics and in Dark Knight Rises!

    strwar3 posted: »

    I think players are over-obsessed with romance options. Such options make the narrative too clumsy IMO. Just have Selina leave Gotham and le

  • edited January 11

    Yes indeed. I love Paul Dini's work on Batman The Animated Series.

    Anyway, here's how the ending variants can end up in the same place, so that everyone can be on the same starting point:

    • Alfred: He will leave, even if the player gave up Batman. Because Bruce will don the cape & cowl again sooner rather than later.
    • Joker: He will break out of Arkham and evade everyone. Will be out of the story for awhile.
    • Gordon: Whether or not he is disgraced or he is your partner, he won't be in the GCPD anymore and become a private detective like Slam Bradley. Renee Montoya will become new Commissioner.
    • Catwoman: Whether you left her as Agency Asset or banned her from Gotham, she will break out of the collar, evade the agency and have her own adventures elsewhere. Even if you freed her, she will have her own adventures elsewhere ...perhaps in Paris. Alfred will be her new father figure to replace Riddler. From S2, you can see Alfred likes her A LOT, so he would reach out to her after he leaves Bruce.
    • Avesta: She will be COO of WE. Even if you didn't offer her a job, she will apply for the job and get it.
    • Harley: Whether she is an Agency Asset or Jailbird, Catwoman will break her out, team-up with her and eventually Poison Ivy, and have their adventures elsewhere...for the time being.
    • Tiffany: If she's protege, she's off somewhere studying for her PhD. If she's agent or fugitive, she will come back to help when push comes to shove.
    • Waller: She will be out of the story since she's left Gotham.

    So I guess the one character who will be with Bruce/Batman is Avesta at the starting point of Season 3. And she will bring in her dad Ra's Al Ghul, sister Talia and the League of Assassins.

    When the League conquers Gotham, makes it No Man's Land and banishes Bruce/Batman, the rest of the abovementioned characters will come into the story to help him.

    :smile:

    JTKirk2233 posted: »

    Any one of these three options could work. But, I would want to bring in one of the best writers on the character in as a creative consultant, Paul Dini.

  • edited January 11

    But doesn't that mean that every choice you made is worthless?

    The reason why Telltale was very criticized?

    I feel like Season 3 is the perfect opportunity to really show how you're choices change the characters and their relationship with Bruce.

    Also why would Catwoman break out a mass murderer that depending on you're choices can try to kill her several times?

    Ironlady posted: »

    Yes indeed. I love Paul Dini's work on Batman The Animated Series. Anyway, here's how the ending variants can end up in the same place, s

  • edited January 11

    The choices will affect Bruce's relationship with each of the characters, but ultimately, the narrative flow will be linear. It is like the concept of fate, where external forces outside of your control pushes the story to a certain destination. We can't control others and their actions; what will change is their attitude to us.

    As for Harley...well, I'm hoping they play out the sympathetic angle and she is reformed into an anti-hero. Like the upcoming Birds of Prey movie. Haha! I just like her a lot.
    Catwoman's a forgiving kitty. She can forgive me when I sold her to the Pact, so why not Harley? Haha.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    But doesn't that mean that every choice you made is worthless? The reason why Telltale was very criticized? I feel like Season 3 is th

  • edited January 12

    That works with other versions of Harley because she's way less bloodthirsty or at least she regrets it.

    Telltale's Harley can kill buildings full of people for fun.She's more responsible of The Joker than Bruce is!

    Regardless of that,The new Telltale seems to be way better than the old one given that they are taking way more time developing Wolf 2,that means that Batman 3 will probably be next gen so they will have way more room to have a bigger game than the other seasons.

    I just feel like this story can be much bigger than this,here the ending of season 2 doesn't matter because Al leaves anyway,stopping Joker doesn't matter because he escapes anyway,you're relationship with Catwoman doesn't matter because she leaves anyway,Harley being locked up or with Waller doesn't matter because Catwoman breaks her out anyway,Tifanny's story doesn't go anywhere.

    Why not have real consequences? like having Bruce look different depending on if you gave up being Batman or not,have the first one looking shaved and elegant and the other one unshaved and tired,but given that he never stopped being Batman he's way more experienced and capable than the other one,they could have different gadgets and fighting styles for the whole season.

    Or what if the villains can't escape Arkham if you upgrade it on season 1 but the police is way less prepared for the League of Assassins because they don't have the founding.

    Ironlady posted: »

    The choices will affect Bruce's relationship with each of the characters, but ultimately, the narrative flow will be linear. It is like the

  • edited January 12

    Haha, yeah. Just my unreasonable fantasies about Harley. Poison Ivy is Harley's OTP and Catwoman is their 'matchmaker' in the comics. So I'm trying to think of how Harley can break away from Waller's control/jail, haha! Plus Catwoman isn't always with Bruce. She has a complex personality, goals of her own. Take away Batman, and she can (and does) have interesting all-girl team-ups with Harley, Poison Ivy, Zatanna, amongst others, in the comics.

    And yes, I'm more than confident that the finale S3 villain is Ra's Al Ghul. Avesta, as COO of Wayne Enterprises, will be the conduit for the League of Assassins' entry into Gotham. Actually there's a precedent in the comics - Talia Al Ghul ran LexCorp as CEO but worked secretly to undermine the company. Though it's confirmed that Avesta is not Talia, I feel they are half-sisters - same father (Ra's), different mothers. Avesta's mother fled Ra's, settled in Gotham, married someone else who ran a store and raised Avesta in Gotham. My guess is that's the past Avesta is running from (mentioned in Ep4) which is catching up with her. She found out Bruce is Batman because Bruce trained with her sister Talia and the League of Assassins in his youth before he became Batman at 30.

    Regarding the end of S1 choice, I chose to upgrade Arkham as I felt Bruce would have felt guilty over what happened with Vicki's parents. But I'm curious about it - it didn't seem to have any effect on S2. Maybe it will carry over in S3. But man, I don't know if even funding the GCPD can prepare them for the League. The supposedly super well-trained Agency can't even take down Joker & Harley by themselves - c'mon, a small girl like Harley could single-handedly beat off all those armed male agents during the convoy raid at the end of Ep2.

    I envision that Batman will be severely defeated and broken by the League of Assassins in S3.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    That works with other versions of Harley because she's way less bloodthirsty or at least she regrets it. Telltale's Harley can kill build

  • How about if Joker breaks out Harvey Dent, Victor Zsasz, Ventriloquist and everyone in Arkham when Gotham becomes No Man's Land? Or when Gotham is conquered by the League and becomes "City of Ra's".

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman:_No_Man's_Land

    BBW2002 posted: »

    That works with other versions of Harley because she's way less bloodthirsty or at least she regrets it. Telltale's Harley can kill build

  • What if Joker breaks out different characters depending on what kind of Joker he is? Vigilante Joker would break out Ventriloquist and Villain Joker would break out zsasz.

    They could have completely different scenes and plans.

    What i would really love is that they make Bane have an important role in the season. Since he's Ra's second option for a succesor in the comics here we could do the same and have him break Bruce's back after he tells Ra's to fuck himself. The next episode would about how Bruce steals an small dose of Lazarus from the League to cure his back.

    Also if you sell out Catwoman and get the Villain Joker episode Batman never gets payback against Bane or Joker. We should get that in this season.

    How about if Joker breaks out Harvey Dent, Victor Zsasz, Ventriloquist and everyone in Arkham when Gotham becomes No Man's Land? Or when Gotham is conquered by the League and becomes "City of Ra's". https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman:_No_Man's_Land

  • But the Lazarus Pit will corrupt Bruce's mental state and make him insane like the full villainous Joker. I'd like to see Bruce avoid the temptation to use the Lazarus Pit and heal himself through surgery, physical therapy and super disciplined training. This would require even more mental toughness.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    What if Joker breaks out different characters depending on what kind of Joker he is? Vigilante Joker would break out Ventriloquist and Villa

  • edited January 13

    That's why it would be a small dose. But actually that would be a really good choice. Use the Lazarus formula to speed up you're recuperation at risk of going berserk or heal naturally at the cost of leaving Gotham more time under Ra's control?

    But the Lazarus Pit will corrupt Bruce's mental state and make him insane like the full villainous Joker. I'd like to see Bruce avoid the te

  • edited January 14

    I've always had a theory that Lady Arkham and Penguin were tools of the League of Assassins to try to take over Wayne Enterprises...but they failed.

    With Avesta as COO, Ra's Al Ghul and Talia will work on winning her over to their side. Wayne Enterprises is a powerful publicly traded US conglomerate with massive government clout. It will be part of the League's plan to conquer the USA economically, politically and later, militarily when they get hold of all of WE assets and Santus weapons. :wink:

    I'd like to see the choice regarding Rumi Mori have a larger effect. It's mentioned that Riddler was after his biotech company. Bruce also mentioned WE owns major biotech companies. If Bruce beat up Rumi, he will work with Ra's. After taking over WE and throwing Bruce out of Gotham, Ra's will use Rumi's biotech company and WE's biotech companies to create the Lazarus Pit, which will be a more powerful version of Project Lotus.

  • edited January 23

    A rendition of the cataclysmic No Man's Land storyline is a must.

  • Yes, I love Harley too. Hope they will bring her back. But the Codex seems to be conclusive on her arc, which is sad. I was very dissatisfied leaving her as an Agency Asset.

    I would like Harley Quinn as a romance option with vigilante path.

  • I'm not sure if there is much of a choice. Whether you choose the good or bad options, Selina is leaving Gotham. Similarly, whether you choose the good or bad options, Avesta is staying put in Gotham. So yes, I strongly believe she is Ra's Al Ghul's daughter. Not Talia though.

    I am still of the opinion that Season 3 should retain the themes of identity of both previous seasons by having the opening episode be virtu

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