Seems pretty obvious Morgan is going to end up with Le Chuck. Unless he goes all voodoo again of course
That would break the series. LeChuck will have to become a zombie pirate again since hes the major villain.
Of course ML could become a zombie too, but then LeChuck couldn't be chasing Elaine for marriage; but maybe there would be some other reason for harassing Guybrush.
TT can't do anything that drastic to the franchise surely? I hope not at least. You should never mess with a formula too much. What happens if you get it totally wrong? You create massive plot holes that people don't like, like EMI. That had drastic changes to the overall plot like the giant monkey head & Herman Toothrot & that was a huge mistake.
By the end of the season, LeChuck has to be a dead, Guybrush has to have his hand back & him & Elaine have to be happily married. It's just not worth messing with the formula that has worked for so long... No matter what some of the crazy TT fans around here might say. ¬_¬
Could be that Le Chuck goes zombie again, and Morgan decides to spend her time bring him down, instead of Guybrush like she was doing when we first met her. That would work then.
I really like Morgan as an antagonist - she's the first antagonist of the series that acknowledges that Guybrush has grown capable over the course of his adventures, and she wants some of Guybrush for herself. His heart, his actual heart, whatever she can get. Obviously, she's greedy - if Morgan gets what she wants Guybrush will in some way lose out. I'd like to see her survive the series and come back to harass Guybrush in the future, although a Monkey Island without LeChuck would be unthinkable.
I would like to see more Elaine, though. Playable Elaine, please?
By the end of the season, LeChuck has to be a dead, Guybrush has to have his hand back & him & Elaine have to be happily married. It's just not worth messing with the formula that has worked for so long... No matter what some of the crazy TT fans around here might say. ¬_¬
That would not only be dull, it would be dire. I'm sorry, but it would be detestable to me. Even TV programs have evolved beyond the self-contained, everything back to normal at the end of the episode, format over the years. Keeping things as status-quo leads to a sense of the series going nowhere, and quite often needs a serious shake up to get the staleness out.
May I add, if in ten years time I'm playing Monkey Island 15 and it's still exactly the same as it is now, then I will hold you personally responsible Monkey, and I shall exact vengeance upon you and your children, and your children's children! :mad:
Yeah, we definitely need more Elaine. All this attention on Morgan & not on Elaine is killing people's belief in them as a couple. So much so that some people are actually wanting Guybrush & Morgan to get together! :eek: NOOOO!
Come on TT, let's hurry up & cure Elaine from the pox & get them back together again.
That would not only be dull, it would be dire. I'm sorry, but it would be detestable to me. Even TV programs have evolved beyond the self-contained, everything back to normal at the end of the episode, format over the years.
Yes & how long do those TV series' last before they run out of ideas & have to axe it? Because they certainly can't go back to the formula that worked so well after they have screwed around with it so much. The best thing is not to mess with it in the first place. You don't have to try & fix it later then.
Keeping things as status-quo leads to a sense of the series going nowhere, and quite often needs a serious shake up to get the staleness out.
May I add, if in ten years time I'm playing Monkey Island 15 and it's still exactly the same as it is now, then I will hold you personally responsible Monkey, and I shall exact vengeance upon you and your children, and your children's children! :mad:
Bring it on. "Shaking up the franchise" just sounds like fucking up the franchise to me. It's why all franchises die of mediocrity in the end. They keep changing it & evolving it to keep it fresh, untill in the end, it doesn't resemble anything like what it started out as & everyone gives up on it.
Monkey Island is also bigger than any one person & it's too big for mortal men to just start toying with the formula that has worked for so long. Look what they did to MI4. You ignored that. I can't trust anyone to mess with it. I'm a firm believer of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it."
Trying to change things is what runs franchises into the ground. They have already done it once with MI & TT have managed to resurrect it. Let's not try & get them to do it again, not so soon you nutter.
Some of my favourite franchises & oldest ones all share one thing in common. They know when they have a winning formula & they know not to fuck with it.
Chill dude, the last line was a joke, hence the wink. I was just voicing my opinion the same as you, I'm sorry it's not the same. I disagree that shows get axed if they try to shake it up, how many shows just end up sliding into mediocrity, repeating the same formula again and again?
There isn't a single formula to Monkey Island, MI2 for instance had virtually nothing to do with Elaine, with LeChuck being after Guybrush only, hell even Guybrush didn't seem that bothered with Elaine himself, that broke with 'the formula'. I'm not saying that they need to shake Monkey Island up, just that they should not stick to any status quo, instead going where the story should go.
But hey, you know what you like and I know what I like, I merely responded to your statement that it had it to end your way is all. I'm sure TT will choose whichever one they feel works best.
I think the feelings are very one-sided. At this point, I'd say Guybrush would go for a "Thanks but no thanks, hey, could you not kill me? Oh. How about one date, then?"
I'm cheering for Morgan. She's got an innocence to her that reminds me of how Guybrush was in the first game.
Not as a permanent replacement to Elaine, but as a fling. He's a pirate, and pirates aren't often faithful in their relationships, why should Guybrush be any different?
Yes & how long do those TV series' last before they run out of ideas & have to axe it? Because they certainly can't go back to the formula that worked so well after they have screwed around with it so much. The best thing is not to mess with it in the first place. You don't have to try & fix it later then..."Shaking up the franchise" just sounds like fucking up the franchise to me. It's why all franchises die of mediocrity in the end. They keep changing it & evolving it to keep it fresh, untill in the end, it doesn't resemble anything like what it started out as & everyone gives up on it.
So you'd rather have formulaic retreads of the same plot than stories that develop over time as characters grow? After all, there was no Monkey Island "formula" until CMI came around.
A show runs out of ideas much faster when it NEVER changes the formula, and I've noticed more franchises die when the creators try TOO hard to recapture the "magic" that made the original popular, rather than actually develop things naturally. This is what leads to the Flanderization of many a series.
THAT SAID, there are two extremes: not changing the formula at all, or forcing a change just to be "shocking"...or worse, fanservice-y. Having Guybrush suddenly dump Elaine and get together with Morgan would feel incredibly forced, like they were desperate to try something new.
But not ALL changes in all franchises are like this, and just as writers shouldn't do different things JUST for the sake of being different, they also shouldn't be scared to try different things IF it's actually a good idea that makes the story better.
I'm cheering for Morgan. She's got an innocence to her that reminds me of how Guybrush was in the first game.
Not as a permanent replacement to Elaine, but as a fling. He's a pirate, and pirates aren't often faithful in their relationships, why should Guybrush be any different?
If you haven't noticed, Guybrush isn't really much of a pirate.
She's made to be hot, TTG meant for it to be some kind of tension in the air, they succeeded. Personally rather her than Elaine but I they can't ditch Elaine. Would be too weird.
"To have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part."
Episode 4 - The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood
"To have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part."
Episode 4 - The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood
I suppose if he's dead, that DOES give him the freedom to be with Morgan..........
I wouldn't mind Guybrush and Elaine breaking up for a series or two, it worked for MI2. Make Elaine more elusive and capable like she used to be.
I think Morgan is a good IDEA of a character but poorly executed. She is TOO pretty and not tough enough and the voice actress is saying her lines like an entitled college girl. Give her some edge, give her a scar, take off the make up, make her ROUGH. Make us believe she is capable of her job and when confronted about it instead of whining "I'm just doing my jahhhhhbbb" she could say something witty and insulting. Think Angelina Jolie in Wanted. That's what Morgan should be like.
LeChuck has to be voodoo again at the end and will be. Case closed.
IF Morgan was badass and not just SUPPOSED to be badass but its not believable like currently (see above) then I wouldn't mind a game or half a game where Guybrush crushed on her instead of Elaine, but then Elaine did something (though not involving GB, maybe just something heroic and selfless) that made him realize he still wanted her and then was pining after again though they were broken up.
I knew this epsiode would polarize people on here.
She definitely is an emotional cripple. It's implied that she hasn't had an easy life, and doesn't know how to do much else but kill. Characters like this are usually sympathetic when they're men (Guts from Berserk, for example), but it a woman some don't tolerate it.
Part of the reason she's so fascinated by Guybrush to begin with, is because she hopes he'll be the strong man who can stand up to her and tame her, because she doesn't know how to do it herself. This is why she's so disappointed to learn that Guybrush is so non-confrontational.
She's also a bit hurt by the time she bonks him over the head. They share a moment earlier where you can see in her eyes she hopes Guybrush "gets it" and when she realizes he's still in love with Elaine, she's clearly hurt, so I think that's part of why she does it too.
I don't think anyone here is having naughty dreams about her, but in the context of the game she's a cute character and you understand that.
Every cartoon character would look frightening and disgusting in real life, but a cartoon show you understand what they represent and don't respond with fright or disgust.
Well, almoast. I think Morgan is actually not looking for someone that is strong enough to tame her but for someone who's complete opposite of her but still understands her. A man that can balance her, it's like the philosophy of yin and yang. She was actually talking about herself when Guybrush asked her how to deal with the destructivly angry female manatee and the advices she gave sums up to be the qualities of Guybrush. But as you said Threepwood didn't get Morgans points and directly after she realised that Guybrushs heart was still beating strong for Elane and you could see Lafley was hurt by that.
LeChuck has to be voodoo again at the end and will be. Case closed.
At this stage in the game, I really want to see more human LeChuck. The "yarrrrrgh I'm going to destroy Guybrush Threepwood!" plot has already been done 4 times over, and I'm happy to see LeChuck involved in a different story arc this time around.
So you'd rather have formulaic retreads of the same plot than stories that develop over time as characters grow? After all, there was no Monkey Island "formula" until CMI came around.
A show runs out of ideas much faster when it NEVER changes the formula, and I've noticed more franchises die when the creators try TOO hard to recapture the "magic" that made the original popular, rather than actually develop things naturally. This is what leads to the Flanderization of many a series.
THAT SAID, there are two extremes: not changing the formula at all, or forcing a change just to be "shocking"...or worse, fanservice-y. Having Guybrush suddenly dump Elaine and get together with Morgan would feel incredibly forced, like they were desperate to try something new.
But not ALL changes in all franchises are like this, and just as writers shouldn't do different things JUST for the sake of being different, they also shouldn't be scared to try different things IF it's actually a good idea that makes the story better.
Great post dude. Couldn't have put it better myself, but I'm just too scared of the 'changing it for fan service' one. I know it happens & far too often. It's exactly what happened with Escape. They shook it up for the sake of it & if they did anything like that in Tales, I'd feel the same. Done just because of some of the people here on the forums or just to shock.
Like you pointed out with MI2, changes were made that felt natural. None of the suggestions I've heard here sound right at all though, but if they were a natural idea by the devs that truly felt real & not forced, I'm on board. It's a risky subject for me all the same though. You are messing with my No.1 video game love... careful Telltale. ¬ . ¬
She's also a frickin' psycho who just wants to slit people's throats rather than trying conversation. She's even prepared to kill her No.1 idol just because it's her "job".
What a bunny boiler. Stick with Elaine GT, she's good for you!
Except she told him she was that way because it was the only way she knows, and that she's basically misunderstood? You could see in her expressions that she was reaching out to him and was sincerely crestfallen when he totally missed it.
Elaine can run off with human LeChuck for all I care. She's getting annoying. Unless they do something with the story to make Morgan more detestable and Elaine more likable and less bossy, that's how I hope it'll play out. We'll find out. The story can go any which way at this point.
Yeah, Morgan is awesome but they've made Elaine crap.
If you look back at the series, Elaine never really loved Guybrush anyway, especially in MI2. It always struck me as a one-sided marriage.
The bossiness isn't really the problem. Spoilers for Leviathan:
Decava listed Guybrush's turn on as assertive women. So Elaine, Morgan and, unfortunatley for Guybriush, Voodoo Lady fit
It's the confusing actions both Elaine and Morgan are taking around Guybrush. We see more of the positve with Morgan, and more of the negative with Elaine. But we don't know how much of Elaine's negative reactions are due to the pox and how much of Morgan's positive are due to her hero worship.
Spoilers for Leviathan:
We find out a lot of Morgan's positive attidude comes from her hero worship. And this leaves a big question..
Overall, I think Guybrush should ditch Elaine and run off with Wally. The two of them both share the same personality traits, such as naivety, a sense of innocence, and a desire to be a pirate (remember CoMI intro). GT would help bring Wally out of his shell and Wally would help give GT common sense and restraint.
This was meant as a joke, but I think I might have just succeeded in convincing myself...
In SoMI, when The 'Brush fell in love with Elaine it was a pretty Physical attraction (there was no-way they got to know each other by the end of SoMI)
But within the space of 2 chapters of one game, Morgan has shown more genuine interest, and more true affection for The 'Brush than (I personally think) Elaine has in 4 and a half games. (in EMI she is active with him, BUT shes very condescending about it.)
Is he? I actually just thought wally was a small man...
Well, paedo relationship will spice it up much more than anyone would want XD
Right, so we got Wally and Guybrush paired up, Elaine and Morgan are the next obvious pair which is why I propose Elaine and Captain Kate instead to shake things up more (plus they both have red hair, so they could pull off the whole twin thing), LeChuck and the Voodoo Lady, as a big woman needs a big man to tame her and to get the mojo flowing. Bob and Murray would work well together, as Bob know's how to handle a skull, Morgan should be paired up with the whole Monkey-Island cannibal village, she looks like the sort who would enjoy that, while Herman should definitely go with the merfolk, so that when we encounter him at another island he can sound even more like a demented madman going on about mermaids and the like.
Ron Gilbert never wanted Guybrush and Elaine together. And he had ideas for Elaine during the brainstorming session. They might just split up. On the other hand, it might just be something to make everybody freak out and then put them back together again. Either way, I'll accept whatever happens as long as it's delivered well. So far they are doing a great job of putting Morgan and Guybrush together if that's where they're going. If they're just doing it as a distraction then I'm sure TTG will deliver some good stories in Chapters 5 & 6 to change the way I feel again and put Guybrush and Elaine back together and not want to see Morgan with Guybrush.
Good storytelling tells you what you want to see happen in the story. Whether as the final outcome or just a distraction.
Comments
That would break the series. LeChuck will have to become a zombie pirate again since hes the major villain.
Of course ML could become a zombie too, but then LeChuck couldn't be chasing Elaine for marriage; but maybe there would be some other reason for harassing Guybrush.
By the end of the season, LeChuck has to be a dead, Guybrush has to have his hand back & him & Elaine have to be happily married. It's just not worth messing with the formula that has worked for so long... No matter what some of the crazy TT fans around here might say. ¬_¬
I would like to see more Elaine, though. Playable Elaine, please?
That would not only be dull, it would be dire. I'm sorry, but it would be detestable to me. Even TV programs have evolved beyond the self-contained, everything back to normal at the end of the episode, format over the years. Keeping things as status-quo leads to a sense of the series going nowhere, and quite often needs a serious shake up to get the staleness out.
May I add, if in ten years time I'm playing Monkey Island 15 and it's still exactly the same as it is now, then I will hold you personally responsible Monkey, and I shall exact vengeance upon you and your children, and your children's children! :mad:
Come on TT, let's hurry up & cure Elaine from the pox & get them back together again.
Yes & how long do those TV series' last before they run out of ideas & have to axe it? Because they certainly can't go back to the formula that worked so well after they have screwed around with it so much. The best thing is not to mess with it in the first place. You don't have to try & fix it later then.
Bring it on. "Shaking up the franchise" just sounds like fucking up the franchise to me. It's why all franchises die of mediocrity in the end. They keep changing it & evolving it to keep it fresh, untill in the end, it doesn't resemble anything like what it started out as & everyone gives up on it.
Monkey Island is also bigger than any one person & it's too big for mortal men to just start toying with the formula that has worked for so long. Look what they did to MI4. You ignored that. I can't trust anyone to mess with it. I'm a firm believer of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it."
Trying to change things is what runs franchises into the ground. They have already done it once with MI & TT have managed to resurrect it. Let's not try & get them to do it again, not so soon you nutter.
Some of my favourite franchises & oldest ones all share one thing in common. They know when they have a winning formula & they know not to fuck with it.
There isn't a single formula to Monkey Island, MI2 for instance had virtually nothing to do with Elaine, with LeChuck being after Guybrush only, hell even Guybrush didn't seem that bothered with Elaine himself, that broke with 'the formula'. I'm not saying that they need to shake Monkey Island up, just that they should not stick to any status quo, instead going where the story should go.
But hey, you know what you like and I know what I like, I merely responded to your statement that it had it to end your way is all. I'm sure TT will choose whichever one they feel works best.
Not as a permanent replacement to Elaine, but as a fling. He's a pirate, and pirates aren't often faithful in their relationships, why should Guybrush be any different?
So you'd rather have formulaic retreads of the same plot than stories that develop over time as characters grow? After all, there was no Monkey Island "formula" until CMI came around.
A show runs out of ideas much faster when it NEVER changes the formula, and I've noticed more franchises die when the creators try TOO hard to recapture the "magic" that made the original popular, rather than actually develop things naturally. This is what leads to the Flanderization of many a series.
THAT SAID, there are two extremes: not changing the formula at all, or forcing a change just to be "shocking"...or worse, fanservice-y. Having Guybrush suddenly dump Elaine and get together with Morgan would feel incredibly forced, like they were desperate to try something new.
But not ALL changes in all franchises are like this, and just as writers shouldn't do different things JUST for the sake of being different, they also shouldn't be scared to try different things IF it's actually a good idea that makes the story better.
If you haven't noticed, Guybrush isn't really much of a pirate.
Blasphemy!!!
Episode 4 - The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood
I suppose if he's dead, that DOES give him the freedom to be with Morgan..........
I wouldn't mind Guybrush and Elaine breaking up for a series or two, it worked for MI2. Make Elaine more elusive and capable like she used to be.
I think Morgan is a good IDEA of a character but poorly executed. She is TOO pretty and not tough enough and the voice actress is saying her lines like an entitled college girl. Give her some edge, give her a scar, take off the make up, make her ROUGH. Make us believe she is capable of her job and when confronted about it instead of whining "I'm just doing my jahhhhhbbb" she could say something witty and insulting. Think Angelina Jolie in Wanted. That's what Morgan should be like.
LeChuck has to be voodoo again at the end and will be. Case closed.
IF Morgan was badass and not just SUPPOSED to be badass but its not believable like currently (see above) then I wouldn't mind a game or half a game where Guybrush crushed on her instead of Elaine, but then Elaine did something (though not involving GB, maybe just something heroic and selfless) that made him realize he still wanted her and then was pining after again though they were broken up.
Her character doesn't exactly slot in with Guybrush's as a wife all too well, but still. I like Morgan, but come on...
"ohhhh she's an awful one thon, not a care for him, she's just after the plantation!"
Well, almoast. I think Morgan is actually not looking for someone that is strong enough to tame her but for someone who's complete opposite of her but still understands her. A man that can balance her, it's like the philosophy of yin and yang. She was actually talking about herself when Guybrush asked her how to deal with the destructivly angry female manatee and the advices she gave sums up to be the qualities of Guybrush. But as you said Threepwood didn't get Morgans points and directly after she realised that Guybrushs heart was still beating strong for Elane and you could see Lafley was hurt by that.
At this stage in the game, I really want to see more human LeChuck. The "yarrrrrgh I'm going to destroy Guybrush Threepwood!" plot has already been done 4 times over, and I'm happy to see LeChuck involved in a different story arc this time around.
Great post dude. Couldn't have put it better myself, but I'm just too scared of the 'changing it for fan service' one. I know it happens & far too often. It's exactly what happened with Escape. They shook it up for the sake of it & if they did anything like that in Tales, I'd feel the same. Done just because of some of the people here on the forums or just to shock.
Like you pointed out with MI2, changes were made that felt natural. None of the suggestions I've heard here sound right at all though, but if they were a natural idea by the devs that truly felt real & not forced, I'm on board. It's a risky subject for me all the same though. You are messing with my No.1 video game love... careful Telltale. ¬ . ¬
@onlyamonkey. Constructive debate there.
*slow applause*
Except she told him she was that way because it was the only way she knows, and that she's basically misunderstood? You could see in her expressions that she was reaching out to him and was sincerely crestfallen when he totally missed it.
Yeah, Morgan is awesome but they've made Elaine crap.
If you look back at the series, Elaine never really loved Guybrush anyway, especially in MI2. It always struck me as a one-sided marriage.
GT + ML FTW!
It's the confusing actions both Elaine and Morgan are taking around Guybrush. We see more of the positve with Morgan, and more of the negative with Elaine. But we don't know how much of Elaine's negative reactions are due to the pox and how much of Morgan's positive are due to her hero worship.
Spoilers for Leviathan:
This was meant as a joke, but I think I might have just succeeded in convincing myself...
Well, paedo relationship will spice it up much more than anyone would want XD
Quote. I love leflay, not only as a woman, but as a character. I found her a lot more interesting than that boring corpse of Elaine. And, in capter 3
/spoiler
we can see as morgan has fallen in love a little with guybrush. They're so cute
Assume makes an ass of u and me?
In SoMI, when The 'Brush fell in love with Elaine it was a pretty Physical attraction (there was no-way they got to know each other by the end of SoMI)
But within the space of 2 chapters of one game, Morgan has shown more genuine interest, and more true affection for The 'Brush than (I personally think) Elaine has in 4 and a half games. (in EMI she is active with him, BUT shes very condescending about it.)
Right, so we got Wally and Guybrush paired up, Elaine and Morgan are the next obvious pair which is why I propose Elaine and Captain Kate instead to shake things up more (plus they both have red hair, so they could pull off the whole twin thing), LeChuck and the Voodoo Lady, as a big woman needs a big man to tame her and to get the mojo flowing. Bob and Murray would work well together, as Bob know's how to handle a skull, Morgan should be paired up with the whole Monkey-Island cannibal village, she looks like the sort who would enjoy that, while Herman should definitely go with the merfolk, so that when we encounter him at another island he can sound even more like a demented madman going on about mermaids and the like.
Good storytelling tells you what you want to see happen in the story. Whether as the final outcome or just a distraction.