Well, if you wont define what a "difficult"puzzle is then the other person who's arguing opposing view points will. We all assume we have the skills for a logical puzzle and that we are fully capable of sloving one, it's the obscure, stupid puzzles that keep most of us stomped for too long and end up upsetting us. We've all played adventure games...
Something can be logical without being easy. We don't want puzzles that are impossible to figure out, just ones that make you stop and think, and eventually reach the conclusion in a logical manner.
Something can be logical without being easy. We don't want puzzles that are impossible to figure out, just ones that make you stop and think, and eventually reach the conclusion in a logical manner.
Why does there have to be something wrong with everything that's so very good? I could answer that but I don't want to.
Why do people keep talking like the difficulty and time spent for one episode of a 5 episode game is the equivalent of an entire MI game!? On episode should NOT take you as long as say the entire Curse or EMI game...
I don´t think so. Maybe not as long as a full MI game, but it could still be longer. Having the full story delivered as chapters in long intervalls of over a month would benefit from each chapter being bigger. You must think of it this way: the perfect variant would be to keep people entertained with one chapter until the new one is out. Of course this is not possible to that extent, yet it is still something to be considered. Whether 5 chapters together are as long as one full game or not, the player does not have all 5 chapters. He has to wait for the next one.
Now if a chapter is too easy (resulting in short play-time), like chapter 3 was imho, it can leave you unsatisfied. You waited 6 weeks for it, you play it for 2 hours and just when you really get into it it´s already over and you have to wait another 6 wees. It was an ultra-short quickie.
And that is exactly why difficulty IS a matter worth discussing. Maybe with puzzles that keep you playing for 4 or 5 hours per chapter even if you are not a n00b it would work better.
Why do people keep talking like the difficulty and time spent for one episode of a 5 episode game is the equivalent of an entire MI game!? On episode should NOT take you as long as say the entire Curse or EMI game...
They do? Because I don't. I compare with other TT episodes (such as S&M), and add to that whether I was stuck at any point. Which I wasn't. Played it all from beginning to end without hesitating. It didn't feel like puzzles because I didn't have to think about it.
I'd rather not be stuck for hours, but wondering about something and then figuring it out is a great feeling, and I haven't experienced it for chapter 3, and that's sad. I still really liked the episode, mind you.
I hate it when people imply that anyone who wants to be challenged is some hardcore stick-in-the-mud who likes being frustrated by puzzles completely void of logic. I'm not asking for another goat puzzle, or "find a tiny pebble onscreen in Simon the Sorcerer", but a little bit more challenge would be nice.
I wouldn´t mind the easy puzzles if they would not shorten the play-time so much.
I agree that puzzles should be logical, and Telltale does achieve that. But even for logical puzzles there can be differences in how obvious the solution is. In ToMI you usually have only a few items in your inventory, and only a few places to go with puzzles that need solving. That may be a result of the episodic nature, since the portions of the game are strictly so divided. You can´t be misguided and try to solve something that is not meant to be solved at the time because you are limited to the places that really are important for the chapter.
Now in chapter 3 the puzzles were much too easy imho; the problem is that it was neither hard nor did it offer enough content to keep me entertained for long. Two hours is just not a long play-time. I am just getting into the MI-world again, and when I really cought fire it is over. Having seen the whole story of the chapter there is no replay value for me. I only started with ToMI on Talk-like-a-pirate-day, but if I had waited for 6 weeks to play the chapter, a mere two short hours of entertainment would be a disappointment.
For that reason I believe that somewhat more complicated puzzles would be welcome. It doesn´t have to be so much that you get stuck for long, but there has to be enough to do so that you probably won´t play it through in one short session.
Though still easy, I think part 3 improved the difficulty level somewhat.
The thing that drives me away from these games so far is the fact that it feels like playing with "large dolls in a small box" rather than, say, small Lego-size figures exploring a large box (which, to me, is what much of the original games felt like). I am aware of the size constraints for this format, but I am not necessarily saying the number of rooms needs to be increased - rather I am suggesting that the large visuals hamper the feeling of immensity. Consider the fact that MI1 didn't have all that many rooms, but still managed to portray a "large" world. When everything is in your face with these large characters and zooming of objects - I personally feel that the puzzle solutions are thrust more blatantly in my face.
I think the puzzles are easier because there's less areas, less items, less things to try them on, less people to talk to, that it goes by a lot easier. When you first land on a big island in an earlier Monkey Island game, you go around the island exploring, picking up everything you can, talking to everyone... and then you've usually got a few puzzles you can solve at a time. Tales is easier, and I've only needed a hint a couple of times so far. But that's fine.
Why do people keep talking like the difficulty and time spent for one episode of a 5 episode game is the equivalent of an entire MI game!? On episode should NOT take you as long as say the entire Curse or EMI game...
I told you guys... "its like talkig to a chimp" (Sheldon style)
They think we ask for hard, asking for ilogical.
we ask for hard, to use our brains, to have more fun, to spend more time playing the game, than 2 or 3 hours... So, we understand that ppl might like it "8 year old difficulty", but the ones who really loved Graphic adventure games, we like it hard, we like spending days thinking "how could i possible curse Largo", "How can i get Lecuck´s hair if i can get close to him", "how can get to monkey island"...
I insist... Tales of MI should be a great movie, but a game? c´mon.... Games r supossed to hard, if u could a game like Sonic and tails with lossing once... how´d u fell?
Anyway.. its a waste of time... Telltales has all the games donde since a few months, so they cant change it now... So bad...
PS: If TTG r thinking into make a game like Grim Fandango 2, plz, dont. Dont make any other easy game again, but u can still make a movie.
not much tima man.
but, i beat the game in like 2 or 3 hours(alltogether) the most, only because i tryed evrything, even when i already knew what to do.
im not saying that they need to do a pixel hunt (no way with these graphics). but a little more effort.
these is the first time that i heard somebody complaining about any MI game. that doesnt tell you anything???
i freaking love MI, i was waiting so long for a new one. but i think telltale tryed and fail, i think they just got a new one a fast as they could just to get money, they knew everybody was going to buy it. hopefully they will get all the coments in consideration and try to make the last 2 chapters great.
I would prefer some harder puzzles too. I love the MI universe and I would prefer to explore it more. The puzzles as they are now are too easy and it doesn't take me as long as it did with the other MI games to solve.
Oh yes, because I know or care what his/her sexuality is. It just doesn't sound very pleasant and it's vulgar. I haven't the faintest idea of what sexuality he/she is, or once was and I don't really care...
He/ she started it with the monkey juggling in here, I don't like being called names, esp after I suggest that I don't like it once already...
His/ her ego is too high anyways, are you actually reading what he/she posted? We disagree with him/her so we become monkeys, guess what that makes him/her...maybe not what I called him/her but from his/her point of view it makes him/her like a talking dog or something grand...I'm just saying what the rest of us monkeys feel.
Its not my problem that ppl like u like easy because u cant beat something with some sort of difficult... ppl like me makes walkthrougs, for ppl like u. Dont be angry, if cant bet hard, u can google it!
Did u try Barneys the dinosaur games? they might be right easy for you!!!
"It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels"
Its not my problem that ppl like u like easy because u cant beat something with some sort of difficult... ppl like me makes walkthrougs, for ppl like u. Dont be angry, if cant bet hard, u can google it!
Did u try Barneys the dinosaur games? they might be right easy for you!!!
"It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels"
I've played several adventure games before the days of walkthroughs. I simply disagree that Tales is not at a logical level of ease and difficulty. I put as much time into the games as I feel appropiate anymore and I think it's considerate of the majority of players and not just those who want harder puzzles.
Comparing TTG's TMI to games you feel inferior isn't very kind to TTG by the way...
""It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels" "
^ Almost a slam to TTG ,really, given the reasons for the insult, where as we are judging quality of games and our chemistry with those games...
I'm not going to continue arguing with you childishly. I was wrong to start with the name calling. You are trying to provoke me now, it would be too easy to give in and too incriminating for me, so I'll leave this where it is at. Too pathetic too, to be a victim to someone who so obviously wants to provoke me.
The glove doesn't fit me anymore, I think it was last seen on your hand though.
I've played several adventure games before the days of walkthroughs. I simply disagree that Tales is not at a logical level of ease and difficulty. I put as much time into the games as I feel appropiate anymore and I think it's considerate of the majority of players and not just those who want harder puzzles.
Comparing TTG's TMI to games you feel inferior isn't very kind to TTG by the way...
""It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels" "
^ Almost a slam to TTG ,really, given the reasons for the insult, where as we are judging quality of games and our chemistry with those games...
I'm not going to continue arguing with you childishly. I was wrong to start with the name calling. You are trying to provoke me now, it would be too easy to give in and too incriminating for me, so I'll leave this where it is at. Too pathetic too, to be a victim to someone so obvious who wants to provoke me.
The glove doesn't fit me anymore, I think it was last seen on your hand though.
Ok, so u say that u play games before, so... u dont use to like getting stuck? using ur brain to solve something? we r not saying that TOMI is a bad game, we say that is excellent, but, its very very easy... we r not asking for ilogical puzzles, we r just asking for something hard, getting more things to do (it would be easyer to say if this where spanish speaking ppl). U r saying "dont make it hard, its good far by now" wouldnt u like it more if it were harder? (not saying ilogical, unusseles, or boring walks)
We already know that TTG will not change the game, but, who knows, maybe we get lucky and they make a "harder version" after this, like MI2LR, were u can choose Hard or Easy.
Im sorry if i´d insult u, but try to read everything before answering.
PS: The majority, isnt allways right.... Billons of Flyes likes Shit... but i dont.
I think the puzzles are just right.... I wouldn't want them to be too obscure.
what he said! by getting older i don't want to spend hours and hours for just one game, there's also other things in real life to deal with. i want the game to tell me a story and let me play a part in it. i'm glad there are "easy" settings in e.g. fallout 3, which let me experience the story in a decent time span.
Ok, so u say that u play games before, so... u dont use to like getting stuck? using ur brain to solve something? we r not saying that TOMI is a bad game, we say that is excellent, but, its very very easy... we r not asking for ilogical puzzles, we r just asking for something hard, getting more things to do (it would be easyer to say if this where spanish speaking ppl). U r saying "dont make it hard, its good far by now" wouldnt u like it more if it were harder? (not saying ilogical, unusseles, or boring walks)
We already know that TTG will not change the game, but, who knows, maybe we get lucky and they make a "harder version" after this, like MI2LR, were u can choose Hard or Easy.
Im sorry if i´d insult u, but try to read everything before answering.
PS: The majority, isnt allways right.... Billons of Flyes likes Shit... but i dont.
I'll take it!
You're right, it's ok, I was throwing around worse names at you. I insult easy, I got aggression problems.
I think it's all psychological and that as time and excitement passes I'll be able to more critically judge the tales. I admit I've never played an adventure game that I thought was ubber difficult, I used to get stomped, when I was younger, but I was just a kid. Maniac Mansion, Mi-2, DOTT, Sam and Max, Simon the Sorcerer....games just aren't that hard in my eyes.
I guess maybe I just haven't been through a hard enough adventure game, I did really enjoy STar Trek: A final Unity, it was a game that I just kept on wanting to play.
I got anger issues. I'm sorry I flipped out. I've been on probation at college and...I'm just a little edgey. I'm sorry.
Ah, anyways, haha. Each to his/ her own is always the safest bet. I think I'm just too excited and thrilled about MI-5 AKA TMI to want to see any faults with it.
I guess we all want and need different things out of life, the games seem about right to me anymore with the amount of time put into them. Then again I am just really excited about these tales right now and that could be affecting my opinion.
I like the puzzles and the level of difficulty just as it is. They are logical and satisfying, well, for me anyways! Also, for my part adventure games are more about the story and the characters than about the actual puzzles (even though they are a nice addition). If the puzzles are too hard for a lot of people, it will slow the game down and it might even make people stop playing. That kinda kills it, especially if you're more interested in the storytelling. I think Telltale has the right approach to it.
I like the puzzles and the level of difficulty just as it is. They are logical and satisfying, well, for me anyways! Also, for my part adventure games are more about the story and the characters than about the actual puzzles (even though they are a nice addition).
I don't like this mindset. Why are adventure games any more about the story than any other genre?! Roleplaying games at least have the idea that, to actively be a part of the world as a character, you must be invested into the story, because part of the gameplay of RPGs is being a character. Adventures, on the other hand, only have PUZZLES as gameplay. You just have to UNDERSTAND the world, not actively be a part of it.
Story and characters are as much "window dressing" as graphics, music, writing, and other atmospheric qualities like effects and sounds. They're obviously NEEDED to a certain degree, but the main structure of what holds an adventure game up as a GAME and not Winnie the Pooh's Interactive Storybook is the puzzles.
Now, I liked the puzzles in Episode 3, I was really engaged in solving them and they were difficult without being frustrating. I like difficult puzzles, though I'm happier when it's logical and I know I can expect that randomly trying things won't be necessary.
How are people solving these puzzles easily? Are they actively just trying every object with every other object? Because there aren't enough interactive objects to facilitate that, really. I generally only try something on something else if I think it will work,
If the puzzles are too hard for a lot of people, it will slow the game down and it might even make people stop playing. That kinda kills it, especially if you're more interested in the storytelling. I think Telltale has the right approach to it.
The storytelling should be more of the carrot that keeps you going. "I don't know how to get past this thing, but I want to know what happens next!" If they're invested enough in the story, they'll keep trying. Or use a walkthrough, which is more or less the same as giving up anyway. Or they'll give up, and then...well, maybe they should go find a good movie, or a genre of games that doesn't ever challenge the player if they're too stupid for puzzles or too impatient for things that might require effort. I suggest ANY OTHER GENRE, specifically any of the post-90s mainstream flavors.
Comments
Something can be logical without being easy. We don't want puzzles that are impossible to figure out, just ones that make you stop and think, and eventually reach the conclusion in a logical manner.
I'm being too difficult, fine...
Peace...
I don´t think so. Maybe not as long as a full MI game, but it could still be longer. Having the full story delivered as chapters in long intervalls of over a month would benefit from each chapter being bigger. You must think of it this way: the perfect variant would be to keep people entertained with one chapter until the new one is out. Of course this is not possible to that extent, yet it is still something to be considered. Whether 5 chapters together are as long as one full game or not, the player does not have all 5 chapters. He has to wait for the next one.
Now if a chapter is too easy (resulting in short play-time), like chapter 3 was imho, it can leave you unsatisfied. You waited 6 weeks for it, you play it for 2 hours and just when you really get into it it´s already over and you have to wait another 6 wees. It was an ultra-short quickie.
And that is exactly why difficulty IS a matter worth discussing. Maybe with puzzles that keep you playing for 4 or 5 hours per chapter even if you are not a n00b it would work better.
They do? Because I don't. I compare with other TT episodes (such as S&M), and add to that whether I was stuck at any point. Which I wasn't. Played it all from beginning to end without hesitating. It didn't feel like puzzles because I didn't have to think about it.
I'd rather not be stuck for hours, but wondering about something and then figuring it out is a great feeling, and I haven't experienced it for chapter 3, and that's sad. I still really liked the episode, mind you.
I told you guys... "its like talkig to a chimp" (Sheldon style)
They think we ask for hard, asking for ilogical.
we ask for hard, to use our brains, to have more fun, to spend more time playing the game, than 2 or 3 hours... So, we understand that ppl might like it "8 year old difficulty", but the ones who really loved Graphic adventure games, we like it hard, we like spending days thinking "how could i possible curse Largo", "How can i get Lecuck´s hair if i can get close to him", "how can get to monkey island"...
I insist... Tales of MI should be a great movie, but a game? c´mon.... Games r supossed to hard, if u could a game like Sonic and tails with lossing once... how´d u fell?
Anyway.. its a waste of time... Telltales has all the games donde since a few months, so they cant change it now... So bad...
PS: If TTG r thinking into make a game like Grim Fandango 2, plz, dont. Dont make any other easy game again, but u can still make a movie.
Same with formulas in science books. Even Stephen Hawking agrees.
The lowest common denominator is awesome.
but, i beat the game in like 2 or 3 hours(alltogether) the most, only because i tryed evrything, even when i already knew what to do.
im not saying that they need to do a pixel hunt (no way with these graphics). but a little more effort.
these is the first time that i heard somebody complaining about any MI game. that doesnt tell you anything???
i freaking love MI, i was waiting so long for a new one. but i think telltale tryed and fail, i think they just got a new one a fast as they could just to get money, they knew everybody was going to buy it. hopefully they will get all the coments in consideration and try to make the last 2 chapters great.
Not read many fans opinions of Escape then? Or even Curse when it was released?
King's Quest dominates the Worst Puzzle Ever category. Sierra probably made a fortune off their hint line.
Its not my problem that ppl like u like easy because u cant beat something with some sort of difficult... ppl like me makes walkthrougs, for ppl like u. Dont be angry, if cant bet hard, u can google it!
Did u try Barneys the dinosaur games? they might be right easy for you!!!
"It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels"
I've played several adventure games before the days of walkthroughs. I simply disagree that Tales is not at a logical level of ease and difficulty. I put as much time into the games as I feel appropiate anymore and I think it's considerate of the majority of players and not just those who want harder puzzles.
Comparing TTG's TMI to games you feel inferior isn't very kind to TTG by the way...
""It must be so humbling to suck in so many different levels" "
^ Almost a slam to TTG ,really, given the reasons for the insult, where as we are judging quality of games and our chemistry with those games...
I'm not going to continue arguing with you childishly. I was wrong to start with the name calling. You are trying to provoke me now, it would be too easy to give in and too incriminating for me, so I'll leave this where it is at. Too pathetic too, to be a victim to someone who so obviously wants to provoke me.
The glove doesn't fit me anymore, I think it was last seen on your hand though.
Ok, so u say that u play games before, so... u dont use to like getting stuck? using ur brain to solve something? we r not saying that TOMI is a bad game, we say that is excellent, but, its very very easy... we r not asking for ilogical puzzles, we r just asking for something hard, getting more things to do (it would be easyer to say if this where spanish speaking ppl). U r saying "dont make it hard, its good far by now" wouldnt u like it more if it were harder? (not saying ilogical, unusseles, or boring walks)
We already know that TTG will not change the game, but, who knows, maybe we get lucky and they make a "harder version" after this, like MI2LR, were u can choose Hard or Easy.
Im sorry if i´d insult u, but try to read everything before answering.
PS: The majority, isnt allways right.... Billons of Flyes likes Shit... but i dont.
what he said! by getting older i don't want to spend hours and hours for just one game, there's also other things in real life to deal with. i want the game to tell me a story and let me play a part in it. i'm glad there are "easy" settings in e.g. fallout 3, which let me experience the story in a decent time span.
so... perfect work for me, telltale.
I'll take it!
You're right, it's ok, I was throwing around worse names at you. I insult easy, I got aggression problems.
I think it's all psychological and that as time and excitement passes I'll be able to more critically judge the tales. I admit I've never played an adventure game that I thought was ubber difficult, I used to get stomped, when I was younger, but I was just a kid. Maniac Mansion, Mi-2, DOTT, Sam and Max, Simon the Sorcerer....games just aren't that hard in my eyes.
I guess maybe I just haven't been through a hard enough adventure game, I did really enjoy STar Trek: A final Unity, it was a game that I just kept on wanting to play.
I got anger issues. I'm sorry I flipped out. I've been on probation at college and...I'm just a little edgey. I'm sorry.
Ah, anyways, haha. Each to his/ her own is always the safest bet. I think I'm just too excited and thrilled about MI-5 AKA TMI to want to see any faults with it.
I guess we all want and need different things out of life, the games seem about right to me anymore with the amount of time put into them. Then again I am just really excited about these tales right now and that could be affecting my opinion.
Story and characters are as much "window dressing" as graphics, music, writing, and other atmospheric qualities like effects and sounds. They're obviously NEEDED to a certain degree, but the main structure of what holds an adventure game up as a GAME and not Winnie the Pooh's Interactive Storybook is the puzzles.
Now, I liked the puzzles in Episode 3, I was really engaged in solving them and they were difficult without being frustrating. I like difficult puzzles, though I'm happier when it's logical and I know I can expect that randomly trying things won't be necessary.
How are people solving these puzzles easily? Are they actively just trying every object with every other object? Because there aren't enough interactive objects to facilitate that, really. I generally only try something on something else if I think it will work,
The storytelling should be more of the carrot that keeps you going. "I don't know how to get past this thing, but I want to know what happens next!" If they're invested enough in the story, they'll keep trying. Or use a walkthrough, which is more or less the same as giving up anyway. Or they'll give up, and then...well, maybe they should go find a good movie, or a genre of games that doesn't ever challenge the player if they're too stupid for puzzles or too impatient for things that might require effort. I suggest ANY OTHER GENRE, specifically any of the post-90s mainstream flavors.
Vista Canyon puzzle on Monkey Island in EMI.
Nuff said.
I like these puzzles that TTG makes.