Did I miss something? re: voodoo lady (spoilers)
Okay, I'm really confused. What's up with the Voodoo Lady's motives? All through the second half of Ep4 and all of Ep5, since LeChuck accused her of being 'evil', everyone's reaction is nothing more like 'Really? The Voodoo Lady is evil. She was behind all of it all along. Who would have thought it.' And that's it!
As a player, and if I were Guybrush myself, I'd have two questions:
1. Why?
2. How?
Now, some hints are being given to answer those questions, but not much. Her diary apparently chronicles how she 'manipulated Guybrush and LeChuck all this time.' But never, ever, is it made clear what exactly it is that she did. Okay, I'm supposed to believe she's behind 'all of it'. What's 'all of it'? Big Whoop? The Cursed ring? The Ultimate Insult? All through Ep5, I was expecting this to be answered, but nothing came.
Did I miss something? Apparently, 'She's EVIL,' is supposed to be enough of a motive and explanation. Meh. Doesn't seem like good storytelling to me.
As a player, and if I were Guybrush myself, I'd have two questions:
1. Why?
2. How?
Now, some hints are being given to answer those questions, but not much. Her diary apparently chronicles how she 'manipulated Guybrush and LeChuck all this time.' But never, ever, is it made clear what exactly it is that she did. Okay, I'm supposed to believe she's behind 'all of it'. What's 'all of it'? Big Whoop? The Cursed ring? The Ultimate Insult? All through Ep5, I was expecting this to be answered, but nothing came.
Did I miss something? Apparently, 'She's EVIL,' is supposed to be enough of a motive and explanation. Meh. Doesn't seem like good storytelling to me.
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She could be likened to a puppeteer. A puppeteer doesn't hate his puppets - he doesn't want them to die, or to have horrible lives. His job is to make them perform the roles that have been assigned to them in a script that the puppets themselves do not have the ability to comprehend.
The voodoo lady is like the puppet master of Monkey Island. She talks about "the tides of destiny" and it seems she is supposed to make sure that destiny/fate plays out as it has been "written".
She's manipulative, sure, but not "evil".
Other than that, the Voodoo Lady also does it for her own benefits. Being the helper of the savior could bring in a truckload of cash. Or a frigate full.
Because... it's her destiny.
That, I think, will be the final revelation in the final Monkey Island game.
But hey... we finally do have more clues.
That
It could be possible that this was the direction Ron Gilbert was going to take her himself. After all, we've been told Señor Gilbert played a part in how this series went.
Gah! This plot-over-character crap is the reason why I stopped watching Lost. When characters have no real reason to do what they are doing anymore, I lose all interest in them.
Or worse, not explaining anything to the audience when it would be easy, and even logical for your viewpoint characters to do so to keep things 'mysterious.'
(E.g.: Guybrush: "Hey WP, I can't get over the fact that the Voodoo Lady was accused of being 'behind it all.' D'you think I can get a look at that diary LeChuck filed into evidence? It might shed some light at things")
It's almost like the myth of Prometheus and his curse. The Voodoo Lady is Zeus, LeChuck is Prometheus and Guybrush is the eagle.
Telltale did say that this was the episode that Ron helped design the most. Perhaps the Voodoo Lady plot was his own.
Is there a special connection between Guybrush and Lechuck after all so she can't use anybody else?
Haven't you watched one spy movie in your life? There are innumerable examples of puppeteers playing people (Shakespeare's Tempest for instance).
There needn't be more of a motive, than taking pleasure from manipulating people. Think of the typical intriguer role (again, to be found all over Shakespeare). Just because we are not told, what the Voodoo Lady's motive is, does not automatically mean her actions are entirely senceless. That is highly illogical.
Obviously the ending points forward toward a continuation of the MI saga.
Everyone brushed the whole "Voodoo Lady is evil" thing under the carpet because LeChuck was killing everyone and therefore he was the current threat. He was a wonderful distraction, and I wonder if that was planned or intentional.
To be honest: I'm not sure even the creators of TOMI really know what to make of or where to lead her character yet. They left the end open - even with a STILL not really dead but at least bottled up LeChuck (if I got that one right), which, as a matter of fact, is quite symbolic, don't you think? ("Well, he really should be gone for good by now, but just in case we need him again, let's preserve him.")
What's more important: several times, different people were wondering about her actual NAME - even LeChuck doesn't know it! - and since it wasn't released in this part of Monkey Island, there sure is more to come.
But, boy, a follow-up story based on this point of departure will be a hard, HARD task...
But the story IS over. Maybe this will not be the final product in the MI franchise, but the story of "Tales of Monkey Island" is completed, isn't it?
EDIT: Yes, maybe there will be a Season 2 of sorts, but that doesn't justify not finishing Season 1, story-wise.
Name one spy movie where the antagonist has no reason for playing other people. From the top of my head, I can think of money, power, revenge, prejudice, honour, duty, even sadism or mental insanity as ligitimate motives within a story. The Voodoo Lady does not show signs of any of this kind of justification.
I haven't read the Tempest, but the actions of the most manipulative Shakespeare character I can think of, Iago, although not very clear, can be explained. For instance, he was bitter and angry that Cassius was promoted instead of him.
I'm not saying the Voodoo Lady's actions are senseless because the audience hasn't been presented with a reason for them, I'm saying that the reason behind her actions are an important part of the narrative and that I feel a bit cheated not knowing them -especially when characters like LeChuck and Elaine apparently do know.
Agreed. At this point, the only thing we can guess is that she gets a kick out of "controlling" the story and never stopping it. BTW, I do like that she was given a more important role than in the previous MI games, but at the same time it makes the current story quite different from the "original" MI tale.
2. LeChuck keeps hyping about it. Never actually explains exactly what, but we find out that...
3. It's because they're being forced into some cycle of fate thing. Why? No clue. Presumbly Voodoo Lady gets a kick out of it. Or something...
4. Apparently Elaine was in on LeChuck's masterplan, or...something...at some point...
5. Which is never explained was before or AFTER she was bound up. What little 'revelation' we get, we presumed Elaine...allowed herself to be caught...in order...to help GB escape the cycle of fate? Which may explain why she was caught on his ship in the first chapter AND YET...
6. She seems honestly surprised at human LeChuck and how nice he is AND YET...
7. I don't even know what the hell was happening there in the opening chapter of Chapter 5. Presumably she has been in on his plan for quite a while, seemingly nonchalant about...I don't even know she knows what LeChuck's doing now, SERIOUSLY. She's surprised at the need for Guybrush to die. Presumably, she's assuming he's not really dead. Ahuh. Right. Whatever at this point.
8. In that case, why did you bother being upset at the end of Chapter 4 Elaine, I'll never know.
9. Unless GB being a casualty wasn't in the part of the plan to literally break the cycle of fate, which either was in the works since the beginning of the game or ONLY after the extremely helpful diaries-that-noone-has-read-in-game-as-proof turned up. And we don't know this because...
10. Elaine/writers didn't bother explaining at all at the end, which was RIPE for exposition heavy loose-tying up madness. But no, we can't get that. We get Jack getting eaten by a freaking octopus and we sail off to find Barbosa still alive!
Thank you.
now she has his hand she can use it like the master did XD
So one series to another cannot have continuing story lines? However did Heroes and 24 cope from series to series?
Evil isn't how I think of her; immoral, perhaps, at times, but that's by our definition of the term. She's playing the same game everyone else is--but she knows more of the rules than most people do, and she even has a cheat code or two up her sleeve, and is determined for her team to win.
You might not have a clue you're ON her team, of course--she decides that, it seems, but doesn't seem to feel obliged to inform you of that fact.
And I still hold that the monkeys are the true threat, Gabel was clearly a monkey and one of their overminds, keep watching the skies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4kZptthICw
Of course, if that game never comes, that's different. But at this point, with the numbers Tales seems to have generated for Telltale and LucasArts' renewed support for the franchise, I'd be surprised if we've seen the end of Guybrush Threepwood.
I think it's kind of like Harry Potter. Guybrush is somehow "chosen". As fire_and_a_rose said, the Voodoo Lady is preparing Guybrush for something. Guybrush is strange, but he is special. He has unique abilities that allow him to rise above all adversity, despite being an underdog. And sometimes Dumbledo- I mean, the Voodoo Lady has to put him through difficult tests in order to strengthen him.
She even says to Guybrush that she orchestrated much of the La Esponja Grande plot to "protect him from himself".
The Voodoo Lady frequently says things like "my ways are my own, but I have never lied to you Guybrush, and I have always acted in your best interests". I believe the Voodoo Lady. Let's face it, she's usually right about stuff. She pretty much always knows what's going to happen. I believe that she IS telling the truth - she DOES have Guybrush's ultimate best interests at heart. But at the same time, she must put him through many tests, trials and tribulations first. He must have pain in order to gain.
I think there is something that the Voodoo Lady is working towards... something big. And I think LeChuck is cross because he is sick of being manipulated, because he just wants to get on with destroying the world. But the Voodoo Lady keeps helping Guybrush along the way...
That said, I think the Voodoo Lady is more concerned with fate and the world, than with individual people.
There's a difference between a continuing plotline, and a resolved plot. The ending here felt like a rush job that explains NOTHING adequately. It's more like what happened to LOST. All questions, no answers, and all the fans got fed up and now J.J.Abrams has given up on it and concentrating on Fringe.
As far as the scene after the credits go, I can answer that too. Voodoo Lady just wanted to give Morgan a new job as ghost pirate hunter, as a reward for aiding in the destruction of Lechuck. The bottle that Morgan handed to the Voodoo Lady was Lechuck's spirit, which the Voodoo Lady would then destroy. However, everybody knows that Lechuck will somehow come back. After all, its Monkey Island.
After Guybrush died, LeChuck smacked Elaine around a bit and she finally agreed to marry him because... well, someone had to stop him after all. She figured she would get close to him and betray him like she's done a dozen times before. When Guybrush turned up again she revised that plan, giving Guybrush all the advice he needed to stop LeChuck himself (notice all the exposition she was giving) while playing the role well enough that LeChuck wouldn’t suspect anything.
And of course once she saw that she expected Guybrush to come back to her. He always does.
I'm going to have to disagree with you slightly, there, Ozzie. I think that, while the belt buckle did play some role in Elaine's relationship with LeChuck, she was certainly aware of some of her actions.
The wry smile she flashed just before agreeing to become LeChuck's demon bride seemed to indicate a degree of cunning. This smile occurred immediately after LeChuck said that only someone demonic/godly/undead (I think) could wield the Cursed Cutlass of Kaflu. Elaine wanted to kill LeChuck, so she 'conceded' to his wedding proposal, in order to become a demon goddess. The Cutlass was too powerful to be held by a mortal, and a ghost couldn't hold it. So Elaine accepted LeChuck's proposal, but with homicidal motives, not amorous ones.
Therefore, I don't think the belt was solely responsible.
See this thread about Elaine's role:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13984
I immediately latched on to this as well. The only question I have is: How could she hold the sword after the voodoo was sucked out of her? Is she still undead? Or is it a plot hole?
Very much doubt that. That explanation is too simple. She certainly has plans for the remains. I guess we'll find out in Season 2 what those are...
My guess is that the effects of the sword are triggered by grasping it - and since she already HAD grasped it, the voodoo just did not think to re-trigger itself.
Alternatively, and perhaps a hint more simply, the demon's bride outfit did have gloves I think. That would be an appropriately Monkey Island explanation, let's face it...