Flaw in story telling?

edited March 2010 in Tales of Monkey Island
Spoiler alert.












Well, it's not much big of a deal but in last TOMI where Guybrush is ghost - he can't pick up anything like cutlass (sword) and etc. but how did he (before coming to Le Chuck's ship) pick up items like anchor and etc.

Flaw in the story?

Thanks.

Comments

  • edited March 2010
    there stuff in crossroads world and can pick them up stuff in our world he cant
  • MarkDarinMarkDarin Former Telltale Staff
    edited March 2010
    He can easily pick up anything in the land of the dead, like the anchor. It's just things in the physical realm that he has problems with. Until he can get his body back.
  • edited March 2010
    MarkDarin wrote: »
    He can easily pick up anything in the land of the dead, like the anchor. It's just things in the physical realm that he has problems with. Until he can get his body back.

    What was never explained, though, was why LeChuck in ghost form, who escaped the crossroads the same way Guybrush did, can interact with the physical world in SMI.
  • edited March 2010
    Bagge wrote: »
    What was never explained, though, was why LeChuck in ghost form, who escaped the crossroads the same way Guybrush did, can interact with the physical world in SMI.


    Exactly. Plus, Gybrush can't lift dead seagull feather that is indeed in "spirit world".
  • edited March 2010
    ReiKo wrote: »
    Exactly. Plus, Gybrush can't lift dead seagull feather that is indeed in "spirit world".

    No, the feather is in the real world. The portals take Guybrush outside the crossroads.
  • edited March 2010
    Bagge wrote: »
    What was never explained, though, was why LeChuck in ghost form, who escaped the crossroads the same way Guybrush did, can interact with the physical world in SMI.

    Because LeChuck used Big Whoop, thereby giving him voodoo power. Guybrush was just killed.




    ...or maybe he learned from Patrick Swayze on the movie "Ghost" :D
  • edited March 2010
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    Because LeChuck used Big Whoop. Guybrush was just killed.

    Sure, it's easy to speculate on reasons for the ghosts of LeChuck and Guybrush's differing relation to the physical world, but Big Whoop being the rason for this was never mentioned in the game, was it?
  • edited March 2010
    Bagge wrote: »
    Sure, it's easy to speculate on reasons for the ghosts of LeChuck and Guybrush's differing relation to the physical world, but Big Whoop being the rason for this was never mentioned in the game, was it?

    But it was insinuated LeChuck came back thanks to the Voodoo Lady. She is an advanced Voodoo practitioner, and can probably make a really powerful ghost, while Guybrush was brought back by himself, and he doesn't even have a license. It's for that reason too that I think Morgan will be able to touch stuff in MI 6.
  • edited March 2010
    ReiKo wrote: »
    Spoiler alert.

    By the way, you can put [ spoiler] before a spoiler and [/ spoiler] once it's over (without the spaces).
  • edited March 2010
    Thanks, didn't know about it avistew


    So,
    How about this: When W.P. sees you as a Zombie (Guybrush) then he either knocks you down or get you to the prison. How come when you get out of the prison via hole and get back to his bar - he doesen't want to hit you and he isn't scared of you?
  • edited March 2010
    I love these sorts of discussions. "Don't you get it? The portals take spirit bodies out of the spiritual world and into the physical world but they're still spiritual so cannot pick up things."

    It's a game, and a damned fun one at that. The whole of the spiritual world was made up by telltale, and yet when they add in a rule about touching things (probably in order to get a nicer flow to the game) we start questioning the realism?

    Now I think back to it, does it really make sense that guybrush cannot pick up stuff, but can stand on a raft and then has to step off it into the water, which he makes a splash entering? Maybe you can argue that it does make sense. I don't really mind. All games basically have to have these sorts of leaps of faith with regards to their rules, because without rules you don't have a game, and with rules, you sacrifice a lot of the realism.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2010
    Now I think back to it, does it really make sense that guybrush cannot pick up stuff, but can stand on a raft and then has to step off it into the water, which he makes a splash entering? Maybe you can argue that it does make sense. I don't really mind. All games basically have to have these sorts of leaps of faith with regards to their rules, because without rules you don't have a game, and with rules, you sacrifice a lot of the realism.

    You can stand on things (the ground, or "the floor" even if that's a raft), but also you fall through doors and can't pick things up. Those are kind of classic ghost rules, or at least one commonly used set of rules when dealing with ghosts in fiction, and made me less bothered by the inconsistency.
  • edited March 2010
    The only thing I really wondered about was how he could put the immaterial picture on the material locket.
    But that can be explained with "it's a voodoo locket".
  • edited March 2010
    Now I think back to it, does it really make sense that guybrush cannot pick up stuff, but can stand on a raft and then has to step off it into the water, which he makes a splash entering? Maybe you can argue that it does make sense. I don't really mind. All games basically have to have these sorts of leaps of faith with regards to their rules, because without rules you don't have a game, and with rules, you sacrifice a lot of the realism.
    A movie I saw explained it thus: "As you may have noticed, you are only material in one dimension: the horizontal."
    It's not perfect (Guybrush put his head through a chest), but it's one way to think about it.
  • edited March 2010
    I think the only thing that weirded me out was that
    all the other ghosts maintained their wounds, but Guybrush still got his hand back.
    Pretty nitpicky, but I can't be the only one who noticed that, right?
  • edited March 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    You can stand on things (the ground, or "the floor" even if that's a raft), but also you fall through doors and can't pick things up. Those are kind of classic ghost rules, or at least one commonly used set of rules when dealing with ghosts in fiction, and made me less bothered by the inconsistency.
    The constant amongst ghost rules is that they tend to float in the world without actually disturbing it. Generally a ghost can, yes, "stand" on a floor. Sometimes they float above it.

    But works of fiction are generally internally consistent about whether or not a ghost can "interact" with a world. They are either "not fully there, and unable to interact with physical things, or perfectly capable of tossing around objects and causing a general fuss.

    Here, we have two ghosts in the canon(LeChuck and Guybrush). One can interact with the world(punching Guybrush across the map), and another can't. As far as a single episode goes, there's the issue of internal consistency: If Guybrush as a ghost can't interact with physical objects, then he shouldn't make a splash in the water, because he's in the world without really inhabiting space or having actual mass.
  • edited March 2010
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    I think the only thing that weirded me out was that
    all the other ghosts maintained their wounds, but Guybrush still got his hand back.
    Pretty nitpicky, but I can't be the only one who noticed that, right?

    I can explain that. It's because everyone else was actually buried, where Guybrush's body was being used as a dart board in CLub 41.
  • edited March 2010
    I can explain that. It's because everyone else was actually buried, where Guybrush's body was being used as a dart board in CLub 41.

    Ya know, they could have at least placed pennies on his eyes when they did that.. It took me 5 minutes to figure that dang Grog machine out.
  • edited March 2010
    Avistew wrote: »
    The only thing I really wondered about was how he could put the immaterial picture on the material locket.
    But that can be explained with "it's a voodoo locket".

    So... Why was Guybrush unable to touch the button on it?


    ...OKAY, STOP BOOING ME PEOPLE.
  • edited March 2010
    I can explain that. It's because everyone else was actually buried, where Guybrush's body was being used as a dart board in CLub 41.

    ... How does that make sense?
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2010
    Here, we have two ghosts in the canon(LeChuck and Guybrush). One can interact with the world(punching Guybrush across the map), and another can't. As far as a single episode goes, there's the issue of internal consistency: If Guybrush as a ghost can't interact with physical objects, then he shouldn't make a splash in the water, because he's in the world without really inhabiting space or having actual mass.

    I don't know why Guybrush and LeChuck are different in their ghost form other than shh. Maybe ghost Morgan will be able to interact with objects now that she's made some sort of deal with the Voodoo Lady? I just made that up, but that's probably what it is. And yeah ghost Guybrush shouldn't have made a splash.
  • edited March 2010
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    ... How does that make sense?

    I don't think even he knows, mostly I suspect that Guybrush's spirit was manipulated by Voodoo, as was his poxed hand.
  • edited March 2010
    splash1 wrote: »
    I don't think even he knows, mostly I suspect that Guybrush's spirit was manipulated by Voodoo, as was his poxed hand.

    I know what I mean, its jsut hard to explain. I think that if you get buried when you die , that maybe you retain your injuries or illnesses in the crossroads, and if you're not buried, you get a new body. Either that, or its some sort of thing to do with unfinished business that they put into the game.
  • edited March 2010
    Giant Tope wrote: »
    I think the only thing that weirded me out was that
    all the other ghosts maintained their wounds, but Guybrush still got his hand back.
    Pretty nitpicky, but I can't be the only one who noticed that, right?

    My first thought was "they retained the wounds because they killed them". But then there is still an inconsistency. So I dunno.
  • edited March 2010
    It was a ghost splash
  • edited March 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    I don't know why Guybrush and LeChuck are different in their ghost form other than shh. Maybe ghost Morgan will be able to interact with objects now that she's made some sort of deal with the Voodoo Lady? I just made that up, but that's probably what it is. And yeah ghost Guybrush shouldn't have made a splash.

    Better get moving and get that splash removed from the DVD. :p
  • edited March 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    And yeah ghost Guybrush shouldn't have made a splash.
    Tales is forever ruined

    I want a refund
  • edited March 2010
    :eek: Please say this isn't happening... I brought up the splash thing to show how little the flaws matter...
  • Calm down doodinthemood, PariahKing just forgot the [/sarcasm] at the end.
  • edited March 2010
    the thing that ruined the monkey island series 4 me was in The secret of monkey island when you look at Guybrush's shirt when you are playing there are blue threads in it However in the close-ups art works they are read and brown!!! I couldnt take it seriously since.
  • edited March 2010
    Calm down doodinthemood, PariahKing just forgot the [/sarcasm] at the end.
    No way

    Totally fair to ask for a refund

    I only completed the game and waited until months after to ask
  • edited March 2010
    the thing that ruined the monkey island series 4 me was in The secret of monkey island when you look at Guybrush's shirt when you are playing there are blue threads in it However in the close-ups art works they are read and brown!!! I couldnt take it seriously since.

    No, you can explain it with Voodoo.
    The threads are blue when you see them from far and when you come close they appear brownish.
    In fact, the Secret of Monkey Island might be the strings in Guybrush's shirt.
    They possess the power to deceive human eyes, which is very powerful in the right hands. Guybrush obviously never looked at his own shirt threads, so he wouldn't know about the incredible voodoo power that rests inside.
  • edited March 2010
    Posts by PariahKing are amazing. It's like watching a director film a train wreck with an obsessive amount of detail.
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